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[zoukka]

Morrowind, terrific game for its addictive qualities and sense of adventure/exploration, not its gameplay.

Exploration is one part of its gameplay.

 

[Seanspeed]

if you dont get the concept, you can always just move on to another thread.

i mean, come on. self righteousness really doesnt help you here. it makes you high for a while but your problems are still there when you come down

For real. I think everybody knows EXACTLY what the OP is trying to ask.

Re-title the topic 'Good games with bad gameplay mechanics' and it'd have been equally clear, and nobody would be able to nitpick at the OP because of their inability/unwillingness to make a very small leap of logic to understand what the OP was asking.

 

[reKon]

Modern Warfare series. I wouldn't say the gameplay is really bad though. The series just has shitty gun play that doesn't even come close to realistic (and it should be at LEAST semi-realistic).

 

[JimboJones]

Discworld 1 and 2 are pretty bad offenders when it comes to point and click puzzles (if you can even call them puzzles) that either plain don't make sense or follow some bizzare logic.
But I still like the games mainly for their art, music, script and voice acting.

 

[revolverjgw]

No More Heroes. So badly designed that it almost feels like some sort of joke, but I still loved the game. Unforgettable music and characters and everything.

Second one was a bit more playable but still bad.

 

[Curufinwe]

Uncharted 2

So which third person shooters have good gameplay?

 

[Seanspeed]

Modern Warfare series. I wouldn't say the gameplay is really bad though. The series just has shitty gun play that doesn't even come close to realistic (and it should be at LEAST semi-realistic).

They look and sound like guns. People die when I shoot them with em.

I'd say thats semi-realistic.

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

The God of War series.

yoooooooooooooou bastard. You take that back!

To the OP, even though your title 'technically' doesn't make sense, I know what you're getting at.

Yes, Resident Evil 1-Code Veronica definitely fit the bill.

 

[TheChaos]

Dreamfall.

 

[Curufinwe]

Resident Evil 5 should control like Gears of War (only without the ability to move and shoot)

It does - just use Control Type D.

 

[jufonuk]

EDF if it hasn't already been mentioned, if it has cool

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Alpha Protocol.

Came to post this.

Not sure why people are having so much trouble with this premise. Substitute "bad" with flawed and it makes perfect sense.

 

[Kyoufu]

EDF if it hasn't already been mentioned, if it has cool

EDF has bad gameplay?

 

[XPE]

Uncharted 1, me and the cover system did not get along =/

Dead Rising 2, its an endless fetch quest

 

[Speevy]

Exploration is one part of its gameplay.

Yeah, but I consider gameplay to be the mostly gameplay mechanics.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

No, the actual gameplay is also superior in Mass Effect - not just the story.

The more open and expansive levels, less focus on constant combat and the greater importance of RPG elements like inventory, all made the actual game playing of Mass Effect better than Mass Effect 2.

If I wanted to play Gears of War, I would.

Isn't the execution of mechanics more significant than the number of mechanics present?

 

[XPE]

Isn't the execution of mechanics more significant than the number of mechanics present?

Well doing one thing and doing it very well might get a bit boring, a bit of variety never hurt any thing.

I do get what your saying tho.

 

[jufonuk]

EDF has bad gameplay?

i personally love this game, but i thought the consensous was that it was supposed to be considered a bad game in gameplay/design etc ok maybe not back just last gen...

BUT I FREAKING LOVED IT!!!

 

[Tain]

Good games will always need to have strong aesthetics and mechanics.

The mechanics should be aesthetically pleasing, too!

 

[Jerk]

The more open and expansive levels, less focus on constant combat and the greater importance of RPG elements like inventory, all made the actual game playing of Mass Effect better than Mass Effect 2.

All that did not make ME1's gameplay superior, just different.

And even then, ME2 executed most of what it aimed for much better than ME1 did.

 

[Kyoufu]

i personally love this game, but i thought the consensous was that it was supposed to be considered a bad game in gameplay/design etc ok maybe not back just last gen...

BUT I FREAKING LOVED IT!!!

I love EDF games too. I would say those games are all about gameplay though.

 

[Dennis]

All that did not make the gameplay better, just different.

Well,maybe not for you but it defnitely made the gameplay better for me.

When things are different people often find one better than the other....

Isn't the execution of mechanics more significant than the number of mechanics present?

Yes....? And ME execute the RPG and level design mechanics better than ME2.

 

[blame space]

If we define "gameplay" to be the core mechanics of a video game, stripped of all other extraneous dressing then I can see how someone can like a game even if they don't care for the gameplay. Peggle is basically a pachinko machine that has won GOTY awards. It it impossible to die in Kirby's Epic Yarn but it received perfect scores. That's because the extraneous dressing was very well done and made the game entertaining even though the mechanics are not deep or particularly engaging on their own.

Random rewards can also make uninteresting, repetitive actions compelling. It's the driver behind the popularity of many MMOs, roguelikes, bad games with easy achievements and slot machines.

Peggle is a great discussion point here. the gameplay consists of me lining up my shot and releasing.. but I would argue that the gameplay continues as I see and hear the result of my shot. I did that, the player does that; what occurs is a direct result of the angle at which the shot is released.

there is a fine and extremely crucial line between Peggle's "random rewards" and a truly random reward. when I play a game i want to feel that I've directly contributed to what I'm hearing and seeing as much and as often as possible, which is why predtermined cutscenes bother the hell out of me, but that's a different subject for a different thread I think.

 

[Strummerjones]

I'd personally go for the likes of the Silent Hill games. SH2 in particular seems to acknowledge this with how easy it is for the most part - it's an interesting exercise in interactive storytelling and a scary experience, but the terrible gameplay mechanics only get in the way so seem deliberately pared back compared to the rest of the series.

I'd also extend this to the likes of Icepick Lodge's games. They're pretty much interactive art installations that require you to know the conventions of videogames to understand them, as they spend a considerable amount of time subverting and playing with those conventions. And they're also frankly not really very fun (as games) at all as a result.

 

[water_wendi]

This is probably the best example i can think of. The only reason it gets a pass is because its judged against other MMORPG so the simplistic quest design and generally brain dead combat (boss/instance battles tend to be the exception though) are overlooked. Next to Farmville, Wow is hands down the best chat client around. Lots of stuff to do as you chat.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Yes....? And ME execute the RPG and level design mechanics better than ME2.

The great thing about better is that it's a relative term.

ME2 implemented 2 things correctly from a gameplay perspective: The shooting and the class abilities(i.e. Infiltrators actually have their own abilities instead of just being a Soldier with some tech abilities).

I literally cannot name a thing ME1 does properly in gameplay, even if it was better than ME2 in those aspects. The inventory (actually the entire UI was pretty bad) and loot were annoying to manage(on top of that loot was mostly uninteresting), the shooting was bad, the sidequests were the same 75% of the time and the level design in those was often even worse than what was in ME2, exploring planets was boring, AI was fuck stupid, controls were clunky.

Don't get me wrong, I was severely disappointed that ME2 scrapped many elements of ME1 instead of improving upon them, but at least it managed to do something right.

 

[54-46!]

Mass Effect: Absolutely horrible shooting segments where your aim is influenced by RPG stats rather than actual skill with an AI that does nothing but run toward you. Awful, tedious and generic exploration missions. The game is saved by the character interaction, story telling and presentation.

All fixed in ME2.

 

[Mindlog]

ME2 implemented 2 things correctly from a gameplay perspective: The shooting and the class abilities(i.e. Infiltrators actually have their own abilities instead of just being a Soldier with some tech abilities).

I'll say it. ME2 also improved the effect of inventory on gameplay. I have at least 8 ME characters fully kitted with shredder/tung/rail mods. ME2's limited, but functionally varied inventory had me switching weapons and armor mods far more often than I ever did in ME.

Mass Effect 1 is the game I'd name for this thread.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Every week there is a thread only tangentially related to Mass Effect which turns into a ME vs ME2 thread :lol

 

[SapientWolf]

Peggle is a great discussion point here. the gameplay consists of me lining up my shot and releasing.. but I would argue that the gameplay continues as I see and hear the result of my shot. I did that, the player does that; what occurs is a direct result of the angle at which the shot is released.

there is a fine and extremely crucial line between Peggle's "random rewards" and a truly random reward. when I play a game i want to feel that I've directly contributed to what I'm hearing and seeing as much and as often as possible, which is why predtermined cutscenes bother the hell out of me, but that's a different subject for a different thread I think.

The game is deterministic, but Peggle's physics are opaque to all but the most dedicated, so there is a very large degree of randomness for the average player. The inability to accurately predict the outcome of a shot can actually free the player from feeling frustrated. They can attribute their wins to skill and every loss feels like a near miss.

The psychology behind this seems to be that people who play slot machines or the lottery, where wins and losses are the result of pure chance, often mistakenly believe that skill is involved. This illusion of control ropes gamblers into trying their luck after a near-miss. Compulsive gamblers have it worst: their brains reacted much more to near-misses than did the brains of casual once-a-month lottery players.

That, along with the boisterous sound effects, jubilant music and flashy feedback, is the core of Peggle's appeal.

 

[Kritz]

For those bewildered at how something can be good with bad gameplay, substitute the word "gameplay" with "combat mechanics".

And then you can see how games like Morrowind, with its story, exploration and RPG elements, can be good despite having bad combat mechanics.

Or GTA, which has really good driving, voice acting and murder simulator qualities, has really shitty shooting combat mechanics.

Or a game like Fallout, where the enjoyment comes from making decisions inside of the game and creatively coming up with solutions to problems, but the actual combat (at least in 3 and NV) isn't all that great.

At least, that's how I see this topic.

 

[Kittonwy]

Mass Effect 2.

I've lost shield.
Launching probe.

Shooting still feels like a shitty version of Gears of War, bullets have no impact, players are forced to go through the whole shield/armor/healthbar cycle for most regular enemy encounters, cover system still sucks with tons of waist-high objects the player can't climb over, sometimes the player would get popped out of cover randomly, friendly and enemy AIs still weak. It felt like a mediocre shooter with mineral probing in-between.

 

[Danneee]

Resident Evil, all of them. Lousy controls is not a good way to make a game harder.

 

[Philia]

I'm playing through Skies of Arcadia Legends and this game fits the bill. Wonderful game but holy shit that battle system is so broken. :\

 

[Grayman]

3d GTA has always had poor to terrible everything but has still made good games by combining all of it.

Alpha Protocol is one of my favourite games and does so with only good conversation and choices.

 

[jeremy1456]

If you can consider a game good despite having 'bad gameplay' then it's time to turn in your gamer card.

 

[charsace]

Marc Ecko's Getting Up. I loved this game. Level design was great. Along with the art, music and story. The problem is that the controls felt off. Something just wasn't right about the character movement and the battle system could have been better. I am still holding out for a spiritual successor.

 

[wrowa]

Soma Bringer. Nice game, but the gameplay is more tedious than fun.

 

[Snuggles]

If you can consider a game good despite having 'bad gameplay' then it's time to turn in your gamer card.

Huh?

I guess I never got mine...

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

Those 2 games were fantastic when they came out and had some incredible gameplay. Or else they wouldn't be great.

Nope even at the time the gameplay sucked ass.
Story, atmosphere and freshness made them popular.

 

[FromTheFuture]

Huh, the first game that entirely comes to mind that I think kind of fulfills the topic is Bioshock. The game is considered great. I think it really does have a lot going for it. The atmosphere, the elements within it (gameplay, story, basic fundamental systems) work well for the game. Many people enjoy and love it.

However, the gameplay honestly, in terms of shooting, feels terrible. It turned me off playing the whole thing, even though it was the one 360 game I've ever wanted to actually buy a 360 to play (at the time of release). It seems that quite a few people share my thoughts on the game, and that doesn't change the fact that it's a 'good game'.

 

[Korigama]

Nope even at the time the gameplay sucked ass.
Story, atmosphere and freshness made them popular.

I'd like to think most people weren't playing Resident Evil, let alone GTA, for story.

 

[Dahbomb]

This thread has got me asking a question:

What is GAF's consensus on ME1 vs ME2? I have played both games without ever listening to a GAF comment around here so I am curious to know what the majority think (and the vocal minority too).

 

[Dennis]

This thread has got me asking a question:

What is GAF's consensus on ME1 vs ME2? I have played both games without ever listening to a GAF comment around here so I am curious to know what the majority think (and the vocal minority too).

ME1 > ME2

Others may voice a different, wrong, opinion.

 

[WillyFive]

I guess the LEGO games, Sonic Adventure 2, the Sonic Advance and Rush games could qualify as this.

 

[blame space]

Allthough I'ld argue it was rather unexpected and different gameplay than bad gameplay. Either way I loved that game.

this game is fucking awesome and one of my favorite shoot-em-ups ever

I'd like to think most people weren't playing Resident Evil, let alone GTA, for story.

most people don't think about why they're playing a video game

 

[Fimbulvetr]

This thread has got me asking a question:

What is GAF's consensus on ME1 vs ME2? I have played both games without ever listening to a GAF comment around here so I am curious to know what the majority think (and the vocal minority too).

ME1 is a mediocre game that I liked.

ME2 was a decent game that I was extremely disappointed in.

 

[minus_273]

I'm curious to see what games people here think are good and worth playing despite admittedly weak or stiff gameplay. Interested in taking a look at games that I may have dismissed.

I'll start with two series of games that immediately come to mind:

every metal gear solid game

 

[Dahbomb]

ME1 is a mediocre game that I liked.

ME2 was a decent game that I was extremely disappointed in.

You were disappointed that ME went from being a mediocre game to a decent game?

I am so confused right now...

Also I want to know why, just not "ME1 > ME2" or whatever. That is totally not helpful.

 

[cartman414]

Seems like a strange thing to criticize as far as FFVIII is concerned (if anything, I would've thought it could be agreed upon that with the exception of the level scaling, this was something it actually did right). Last FF with a combat system I genuinely liked, anyway. For me, saying FFIX instead would've made more sense.

Really? The only thing bad about FFIX's gameplay was the slowdown.

FFVIII definitely had issues with the draw/junctioning system. Too extreme in demanding you play it one way as opposed to another.