sixteen-bit
Member
NES HDMI mod in action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xuw6EZdj2tE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xuw6EZdj2tE
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NES/Famicom Appreciation Thread
- Thread starter Teknoman
- Start date
ColonelSkills
Member
Have you tried Shadowfox's new cases? I'm waiting for the restock, but everything I hear about them has been positive.
I've found plastic cases to be cheaper and less fidgetty for opening than boxes, repro or not, at least.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Looks neat, but sounds like it'll be more expensive than NESRGB, harder to install, and has implementation glitches with at least 1 game/ppu combo. Also doesn't work with Everdrive N8, which they say is a bug in the Everdrive but I have to imagine is some flaw in how it reimplements parts of the PPU/CPU since it works just fine on plain hardware.
Probably much better for a general audience than NESRGB at least.
How are projectors lag-wise? Are they as bad as an LCD panel?
I bought the Stack Up lot on eBay, and it turned out the seller lived about a mile from where I work. We got to chatting when I picked it up, and it turned out she used to work at Nintendo (as did I, once upon a time). She had purchased everything in the lot (including an original NES Deluxe Set) from the company store back in the day, but it sounds like her kids took little interest in it, so the Stack Up had never even been opened.
I don't think the R.O.B. in the Deluxe Set had ever been used, either. There were no batteries in it (and no corrosion), and it worked flawlessly. So I ended up keeping that Deluxe Set and selling the NES set I already owned.
Her eBay listing didn't have the best photos, but I messaged her with some questions and she was very good about responding, so I took a bit of a gamble and bid on it. Thankfully, the gamble paid off.
Which black box games are you still missing besides Stack Up and Donkey Kong Jr. Math?
RGB and now HDMI? Wow, impressive for an 80s console.
You probably already tried this, but I had this same exact problem with my SNES2 and the problem went away when I simply cleaned my games. It took me forever to try this. I was very convinced that it was my system's problem. I think since I usually just deal with NES, I sort of assumed that you didn't need to clean games for other systems.
entremet
Member
I can't watch a video right now.
But I'm guessing it multiplies the original resolution?
Damn, I thought they originally said it'd be cheaper than NESRGB.
I didn't try this, and I will now, but I'd be surprised if that were the case since I never blew into any of them. Also my Super Game Boy is not working. But I'll give it a shot -- thanks for the tip! I hope that's what it is.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
They haven't said a price yet but they have a toploader + HDMI on eBay for 300 USD, which sounds like more to me.
It was way back in the first video. Just watched it again, they guessed <$150, but that's still more expensive I guess. Strange that it was also working fine back then with both Everdrive and Power Pak.
Flizzzipper
Member
I live like fifteen minutes away from that gametechus guy. Might check dis out.
The PPU it seems to have trouble with is a specific chip in the toaster NES. I think all top loaders are good to go with this. Something about how it allows access as either read/write only in one chip or another. I'm willing to believe it is a flaw with the EverDrive. I know how this might come off as blasphemy here, but EDs do seem to have a tendency to not work under certain circumstances. They can be quite picky. I ordered a Mega ED directly from Krikzz... never got the damned thing to work in under any circumstance on multiple Genesis units.
Luckily Krikzz refunded me, so I don't have beef with him and his product.
It line doubles from 15Khz to 31Khz, upscales, and scanlines. It's comparable to what a Framemeister does (including it's low latency)... except with the added benefit of being purely digital and a lot more in the way of audio and video control options. It will also overclock the NES whilst keeping the correct audio pitch. It has support for expanded audio and stereo.
So to be clear, for the money, you are getting a lot more than just an NES that outputs HDMI. It's the ultimate modernized NES.
Funny that you ask that... It was sorta last minute info that the Analogue NT is actaully using this mod for its HDMI solution.
RadarScope1
Member
Crazy good score. Doubt I'll ever get so lucky.
Besides those two rarities, I'm still in need of Baseball, Soccer, Tennis, Mach Rider, Slalom, Ice Climber, Kid Icarus, DK, DK Jr, DK3, Urban Champion, Balloon Fight and Clu Clu Land. The first six are reasonable, the next four are available but expensive and the last three are going to be harder but can be found. I really feel like I'll get there except for the two I've mentioned. I could be waiting years and years for those. (I should add that I already own most of the carts for these, as I do with DK Jr Math. I just don't have CIBs.)
D.Lo
Member
So it seems like the HDMI NES has the same issue as the Framemeister with scalines - they're too thin in 1080p. That's of course because the vertical resolution of 240p consoles can be integer multiplied to 480 and 720, but not 1080. So you have to set it to 720p for good looking scanlines.
I'll have to admit it does look pretty good. Not as good as a CRT, but as good as the Framemeister presentation.
I'll have to admit it does look pretty good. Not as good as a CRT, but as good as the Framemeister presentation.
It's because the everdrive is specced to work on original hardware running at the original clock speed. The HDMI NES mod needs to underclock the NES to align with the HDMI timing. Apparently the N8 would need to change where it gets its timing signal, but that's hardly a design flaw that it doesn't work in incorrectly clocked systems.
Charles Brandon
Member
I'm sure this has been discussed at length already but is there anything out there that discusses the pros and cons of NES RGB + FM vs HDMI NES vs Analogue NT?
Basically I have NES RGB and a FM. Am I missing anything from these newer solutions?
Basically I have NES RGB and a FM. Am I missing anything from these newer solutions?
D.Lo
Member
Well, if the only console you'll ever care about is the NES/Famicom (understandable) and you don't care about using an RGB CRT, High Def NES (misleading name) is cheaper overall, and has less lag. I'd have to play around with it on my own to decide if the image quality is as good - the scaler stuff looks a bit '90s emulator' to me eyes from videos, but the image quality does look very nice. I'm not planning on buying one right now however.
Framemesiter of course is an overall solution for all retro consoles.
The Fami/NES is a weird console in that it's the newest console without any true RGB in its signal path, so it needs a significant mod to look really good on any screen, even CRTs. Everything post 1983 just needs a scaler and maybe a relatively simple mod.
Framemesiter of course is an overall solution for all retro consoles.
The Fami/NES is a weird console in that it's the newest console without any true RGB in its signal path, so it needs a significant mod to look really good on any screen, even CRTs. Everything post 1983 just needs a scaler and maybe a relatively simple mod.
Charles Brandon
Member
Hmm. Cheers. Less lag. How did that manage that?
D.Lo
Member
Because it's not a scaler of an analogue signal, it's pulling the image digitally straight from the chips.
This means it's even less like the original NES presentation of course, it's an emulator-like presentation of the original internal resolution, and all the rest of the mod's effects (scaling, colour, adjustment, scaliness) are effectively CRT emulation options.
This means it's even less like the original NES presentation of course, it's an emulator-like presentation of the original internal resolution, and all the rest of the mod's effects (scaling, colour, adjustment, scaliness) are effectively CRT emulation options.
Charles Brandon
Member
Okay, sort-of understand that. Thanks.
RadarScope1
Member
That's Nintendo, alright. Making the most out of mature tech of the day, then killing it with such great games that no one cares (much) about the tech.
Clu Clu Land is a tough one for sure. I've yet to see a single CIB copy (at any price) in anything but extremely rough condition.
D.Lo
Member
It really isn't much of an issue. Europeans may whinge because they had scart (on a completely different incompatible TV standard though), but I didn't even have a TV with composite until the 90s nor did anyone I know, RF only. I used RF on the N64, and the Famicom is from 1983!
It's all very well in retrospect to look at something like no RGB as a flaw, but it was a consumer product that offered connection options 99.99% of people could use at the time.
theSlacker
Member
Hows the grip on it? Everyone that I know that got one it has been super tight.
True dat, we had RF right up until the Gamecube. Well, sometimes we were allowed to plug it into the big TV for a treat on weekends, and that had composite, lol.
I won't be able to install it for awhile but I'll come back and update when I can.
RF club reporting in. Did not upgrade to a TV with Composite until the Gamecube.
I could not play N64 on Christmas night because no one thought to buy an RF adapter for the TV in our room and we weren't allowed to use the big one in the living room. Something dumb about video games damaging the set. In retrospect it was probably just a lie to keep it freed up for television viewing by the adults. I think I noticed RF and my little mono TV were crap when playing Perfect Dark and some of the text was hard to read, especially along the edges.
The same silliness repeated itself the following Christmas with a PS1. I couldn't wait and plugged it into the big TV when everyone went to bed. It was a huge set with a large base resting on the floor and a bunch of inputs on the hard to reach back. I was a kid who didn't understand this stuff so I had to make many attempts in dim lighting and tight space. I was scolded the next day but it was worth it for a couple of hours of Tomb Raider 2 after midnight. A day or two later we got the RF plug anyway. I still have the piece of junk in my closet.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
RF was dead for me after SNES.
PS1 and on, you'd have to go out of your way and spend money to get an RF cable. How sad is that?
PS1 and on, you'd have to go out of your way and spend money to get an RF cable. How sad is that?
Very sad but the alternative to a cheap RF cable was buying a new TV with composite, not an easy task for a broke little kid. They weren't dirt cheap or free like they are now. I got older and basically worked over the summer to afford buying a decent TV for the Gamecube launch later that year.
I think it was this one or a similar set. Huge improvement.
I think it was this one or a similar set. Huge improvement.
D.Lo
Member
What are you going to do when your TV only accepts RF? TVs were expensive.
My way out was using the VCR's composite inputs when I could use the big TV - but the VCR then passed it to the TV via RF anyway!
I remember reading in about 1998 that the #2 selling accessory after memory cards for the PS1 was still RF adapters!
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Somehow I already had a hand-me-down TV with composite in the mid 90s. I even had a hand me down stereo, too. We weren't rich but I guess I managed to hoard away the family's old equipment for my childhood gaming setup.
I remember having to do that, at one point.
Channel 4 where I lived as a kid in the NES and SNES days. 3 had interference.
VARIA
Member
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Most people stayed on 3. But because of TV broadcasts, 3 had a little interference.
So you might say that flipping the little switch from 3 to 4 was the first step in my never-ending journey to get the perfect gaming image...
My 2011 model still does. But they switched off analog broadcasts, and cable is all digital through set top boxes. I bet it has been dropped on newer ones.
S-video was gone a few years ago. RF outlasted it!
VARIA
Member
Yeah man, that was like the now 720 to 1080 argument. Granted, it was situational to us, we could still see the difference.
All of my HDTVs do.
Shadow Hog
Member
I was an RF kid up until well into Gen 7, where my newer consoles were being plugged into an HDTV. Getting a new CRT TV hand-me-down to replace the tiny one I had that had horrible underscan issues (y'know how you can see an icon for the character's lives counter in Sonic Adventure on the Dreamcast? Yeah, well, I couldn't) - one that actually had composite - was nothing short of revelatory.
Of course, now I don't have any CRT at all. I want one with component (so I can keep using these SCART cables), but I don't really have room for one at a size decent for the distance my couch is away from my current HDTV/XRGB combo... And transporting it would probably be a pain, too.
Of course, now I don't have any CRT at all. I want one with component (so I can keep using these SCART cables), but I don't really have room for one at a size decent for the distance my couch is away from my current HDTV/XRGB combo... And transporting it would probably be a pain, too.
And you have no idea how much this makes me sad.
dreampeppers99
Member
Nightshade
You all should try it
You all should try it
That's rough. So you had a Wii on a HDTV's RF? That must be atrocious. Wii Component on a 720p set was ugly enough. I believe your Dreamcast problem was the opposite: overscan.
I'm getting a handcart from Amazon in a couple of days, ahead of looking for a second PVM. It will make hauling the thing around a trivial matter. It was stupid not to have one the first time. I wrecked myself carrying the monitor up a few flights of stairs.
Shadow Hog
Member
No, the Wii I was smart enough to plug into an HDTV from day one. We'd started purchasing those for use with Xbox 360s the year prior, so there was one available to use.
Although I used composite for most of the Wii's lifespan. Even had a brief period in college where I plugged it into my computer monitor, which had a composite input (and S-Video, but I wasn't savvy enough about video signals at this point to cotton on to that), but had some image issues (like, the blue borders around buttons on the Shopping Channel were rendered the same white as everything surrounding them). Did eventually move onto component (if a third-party cable), but barely used it after that.
What I meant was that pretty much all my older consoles (Genesis, Saturn, Dreamcast, GameCube) were plugged in via RF for the longest time. Shit, the GC RF adapter was third-party, and it made the audio all scratchy if it got too loud. Was glad to get offa that when I had the opportunity.
And yeah, overscan, underscan, whatever.
I might consider borrowing a cart or something if I ever get a CRT; the issue I have right now is that I don't have anywhere to put one. The area I have set up for my TV/gaming usage is pretty well fully used up.
entremet
Member
I learned about S-Video during the SNES days, but I could never get a hold of a cable. You couldn't buy them in stores and they weren't packed in.
I even bought a TV with S-Video to take advantage!
I always wanted one but couldn't find it lol.
