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[Kai Dracon]

In a way I could almost see something like this having some appeal if it was based around an actual 68k-descended chip and positioned as a hobbyist box for people to code for. There are so many hobbyists out there, someone would probably get into it. But actually manufacturing new cartridges doesn't seem feasible unless this became a relatively large phenomenon.

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

I cannot fathom how they would convince anyone to slave over genuine 16-bit hardware that will certainly have no userbase. Publishers won't be interested, indies couldn't afford it. At best you'd see a few stripped down ports and some hobbyist homebrew that no one genuinely wants.

There's a point where nostalgia becomes damaging.

What exactly would this "damage"?

 

[stan423321]

What exactly would this "damage"?

Time. Money.

note: I disagree with this opinion.

 

[OnPoint]

Folks, give the article a read. It's only 3 pages....more like a page and a half without pictures. Lots of good info in there I didn't post. The ideas are still be discussed behind the scenes to determine what they want to do/nail down before they launch their kickstarter...in other words they're not just gonna throw it up and see if it sticks. There is passion behind this.

Besides, with running Retro Video Game magazine...they've already ran two successful kickstarters for the magazine and circulation is up to 30,000 with them getting into Barnes and Nobles with the current Mortal Kombat issue. So they've at least proven to me they can run successful kickstarters and deliver on what they promised. Launching a print magazine can't be easy now a days and they've done it pretty damn good!

OK I just read it. Still a pretty big lack of specifics. I'll hold judgement until I see the Kickstarter but right now it really just sounds like ideas.

I'd love nothing more than for this to be successful. Hell, even get my team's game on it. But I'm skeptical.

 

[geomon]

Won't releasing games on a cartridge be more expensive to buy than just buying it digitally? I just don't see the appeal here. It's not like old classic games are coming to this.

 

[Orayn]

Here is the ars technia article:

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/05/retro-vgs-console-aims-to-revive-the-humble-video-game-cartridge/


Also I have seen interviews with Mike Kennedy and this is pretty much the controller they have pictured, of course with no branding.

Okay, I missed the Ars Technica link. Yeah, that is pretty unfortunate if they wind up using those controllers without any design or build quality improvements.

 

[Like the hat?]

I'm in.

 

[NoFaceNico]

This thing has less to do with Jaguar than PS2 had with Atari Falcon. It's just the shell. And manufacturing replacement Jaguars after TxK incident is very risky.

It wouldn't. My idea was for a clone system, there's nothing stopping anyone from reverse engineering the hardware. That's why we have the many dozens of clone systems that play NES/SNES/SMD.

As I recall, the TxK incident stemmed from Atari's claim that they used some of the code from the original Tempest, which was still owned by Atari. Yeah, it's a bunch of BS that a dev can't use old code he created somewhere else, but that's a debate for another day and not related to cloning hardware.

 

[Zomba13]

I don't understand this. I mean, I love my old cartridge consoles and all that but this seems pointless. If it was basically a Retron but with actual hardware so it had accurate playback for old games then it'd be cool but a brand new 16-bit cartridge based console in this day seems stupid and expensive what with needing devs to manufacture carts insdtea of print CDs.

 

[Odrion]

I cannot fathom how they would convince anyone to slave over genuine 16-bit hardware that will certainly have no userbase. Publishers won't be interested, indies couldn't afford it. At best you'd see a few stripped down ports and some hobbyist homebrew that no one genuinely wants.

There's a point where nostalgia becomes damaging.

Yeah, if it was just a android or linux based console that only used cartridges then that would be something.

 

[Tain]

If you're going for actual hard limitations, why not, as a developer, just make a new Genesis/SNES/NG/whatever game? Games that could run on already-manufactured hardware, hardware that has clone machines out there, hardware that's been emulated so you could also easily do multiplatform releases?

 

[EBreda]

In addition to everything that was said by skeptics, I'd like to say that nowadays you as a publisher or developer have a global audience. Digital sales are accountable worldwide, access to games is simple and effective, there are no additional costs mostly.

Going back to cartridges and its ancient manufacturing system is going to seriously cripple your access to foreign (and emerging) markets.

And can you imagine how they will manage distribution? NA only? UK? EU? Import taxes? Customs? Emerging markets? GameStop? Walmart?

Sorry, it's a hell of a reduced market when you stop to consider everything that's on the table. I'd love for this to be released and attract devs and pubs, but I don't see it happening at all. Even if it's sub $100 (which it will not), I don't see a clear way for this to succeed.

 

[emb]

Okay, I missed the Ars Technica link. Yeah, that is pretty unfortunate if they wind up using those controllers without any design or build quality improvements.

From the op's VB article:

Right now, again — keeping this thing viable — we could have gone out and created a brand new controller. I’ve talked to a lot of developers and it’s important to them to have the dual analog sticks for twin-stick shooters and a variety of things. The reason we’ve kept those is — even though they aren’t really that retro, there are some great advantages to those sticks in retro games. We wanted to leave those on at the request of the majority of the developers we’re talking with. And then I also wanted to have your classic D-pad in there. One of the issues –I don’t know, issue 3 or 4 of Retro magazine, we do a swag-bag spread, a feature on retro video game merchandise. We had a short blurb on Interworks Unlimited’s controller for the Wii. Now, I looked at that and I thought, in my head, that’s exactly what I have envisioned for this thing. It has the dual analog sticks mated up with a classic SNES-style controller.
This one.

[picture of Wii U SNES-style Pro controller]

We went to Interworks and talked to them, and at least at this point, it appears that we’re going to be working with them. They’ll be creating a new USB controller for us that’s going to look like that one, but branded for our console. That controller is classic. There are some concerns with it. They’ve given me some. The quality of it feels great. It doesn’t feel like — I’m not going to name other manufacturers, but it feels like a really nice, sturdy controller. People have had issues with the connectivity to the Wii on that particular controller at times, but we’re not wireless, so that shouldn’t affect us. I don’t mind. I think it’s going to be a great controller for developers to exploit. It has everything they’re going to want. It has everything the younger modern-day gamers will like and it has everything the classic gamers will like. It has the D-pad. The buttons are all oriented properly. I just think it’s going to be a really good controller.

The plan is to pack in two controllers in each box. We’re also going to, I think — again, this is a little tentative because it hasn’t happened yet, but we’re planning on putting two nine-pin connectors in front as well, so that people can plug in old Ataris or any other classic nine-pin old-school controller.

So it does sound like they plan to improve it a bit. But then the line after the bolded seems kinda dismissive of what might be short-comings? Not sure.

But hey, the nine-pin is what the Genesis used, right? That seems like it would be good for any game that doesn't need the extra buttons.

 

[VandalD]

Interesting idea. I figured there were very good reasons why games moved to discs and why indies are primarily digital games, and those reasons boiled down to 'it costs a lot less money.' This isn't something I'd expect to succeed on a Kickstarter budget.

 

[ultrazilla]

Yeah, if it was just a android or linux based console that only used cartridges then that would be something.

It'll be interesting to see what they end up deciding on. Mike mentions in the article that he's already touched base with some developers so I'm sure they're getting a load of good feedback.

Would the idea of making it android based with let's say the games coming on a thumbdrive(that way you still get the cool boxart) be too far off their vision?

 

[JoeyJungle]

I would hope Mike and co. learned from history and don't repeat it.

Then why are they making another console that no one will support?

 

[evilromero]

I instantly thought of Playtonic when I read about this system. Could you imagine another Wizards and Warriors game?

I don't know about anyone else but I would still be buying games on old hardware if they were still making them (and good). The limitations can often lead to very creative outcomes.

 

[Big Dog]

I don't understand how this will be sustainable or worthwhile for a large enough market. I bet it will make millions on Kickstarter and then no one will hear about it again.

 

[Tain]

no one is going to make new games for this

Yeah. And honestly, even if they did, they probably wouldn't have the development resources to compete with the actual 16-bit games this thing is trying to ape.

 

[ultrazilla]

Then why are they making another console that no one will support?

That's a pretty big assumption on your part.

So if Nintendo said they were coming out with a new cartridge based system, nobody would support it?

 

[JoeyJungle]

That's a pretty big assumption on your part.

I think the bigger assumption would be that there would be any exclusive worth buying the console for. I can see Volgarr the Viking, Pier Solar, and Shovel Knight coming out for it. In terms of exclusives, I can't see anyone making anything other than a timed exclusive (with a very short exclusivity window. 3 months max) for the console. That was one of the several huge problems Ouya had. Releasing a console with no first party developer support means that all you're getting are ports.

 

[baphomet]

Wouldn't be surprised if its just an android box wired for controllers and carts, with some sort of very basic front end.

Its a cool idea, but I don't think its going to do well. If they actually get Shovel Knight on there I'll buy it out of principle.

 

[impact]

This is pointless and a waste of money for all involved

I respect the idea and ambition but it's just not something that could succeed in today's market.

If they actually get Shovel Knight on there I'll buy it out of principle.

This is so crazy lol

 

[NoFaceNico]

"It looks like there might be a chance — not 100 percent — but we’re talking about Retro City Rampage coming out on it, hopefully for launch." -Kennedy in VB interview

I'd say there's a 0 percent chance of RCR making it to this console. These are the same guys that (wisely) chose not to port their game to Wii U because the WiiWare version would be the same and works on Wii U in Wii mode anyways.

Source

I can't imagine them being motivated to get the game working on this.

 

[ultrazilla]

Wouldn't be surprised if its just an android box wired for controllers and carts, with some sort of very basic front end.

Its a cool idea, but I don't think its going to do well. If they actually get Shovel Knight on there I'll buy it out of principle.

I think the main key thing they would have to do is make it cheap and relatively hassle free to develop for it or port an existing game for it.

If that means android based with some type of spec limit to fit the 16 bit "look and feel", I'd be cool with it.

 

[1upmuffin]

It would be cool if they had early 3d support, It'd be awesome to see new games with PS1/N64 quality graphics.

 

[statham]

Can't you still find 16-bit consoles like SNES and Genesis still rather cheap and in good working order? go with that.

 

[1upmuffin]

Can't you still find 16-bit consoles like SNES and Genesis still rather cheap and in good working order? go with that.

Yeah but those don't have Shovel Knight or Retro City Rampage.

 

[Devilgunman]

Yeah, who's gonna make games for this thing? Creating a new 16-bit game and manufacturing its cartridges won't be cheap. What a bad idea.

 

[-tetsuo-]

This seems completely pointless on top of just being a bad idea.

 

[Soltype]

If they get a FM sound chip in there, I'm sold.

 

[DeuceGamer]

If this lets me buy some of the best digital download only games in physical form then I'm interested just to add physical copies of games like Shovel Knight, Retro City Rampage, and the tons of others that don't have physical releases. I do realize I'm in the minority though.

 

[Green Yoshi]

Here is the ars technia article:

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/05/retro-vgs-console-aims-to-revive-the-humble-video-game-cartridge/


Also I have seen interviews with Mike Kennedy and this is pretty much the controller they have pictured, of course with no branding.

"The system will support generalized USB controllers (with the dual-joystick Interworks Wii U controllers probably serving as a pack-in default) as well as the classic 9-pin controller standard used by the Atari VCS and Sega Genesis"

It's just an assumption and you can use other controllers.

 

[JoeyJungle]

I'd say there's a 0 percent chance of RCR making it to this console. These are the same guys that (wisely) chose not to port their game to Wii U because the WiiWare version would be the same and works on Wii U in Wii mode anyways.

Source

I can't imagine them being motivated to get the game working on this.

But they also did a NES port for fun: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/02/retro-city-rampage-creator-makes-a-real-playable-nes-port/

If the console maker funded the port, I can see the devs doing it just to have an android version (or a version of the game that can be easily ported to android).

They haven't announced the os for the console, but the Ars interview mentions that they're planning to use an ARM processor, so Android or a version of Android is pretty likely.

 

[898]

That's a pretty big assumption on your part.

So if Nintendo said they were coming out with a new cartridge based system, nobody would support it?

Nobody supports Nintendo now, so no.

 

[stan423321]

It wouldn't. My idea was for a clone system, there's nothing stopping anyone from reverse engineering the hardware. That's why we have the many dozens of clone systems that play NES/SNES/SMD.

So you basically have a completely different idea than what that dude is doing here. Nevermind that your idea is IMHO far worse than you think it is, it's sort of absurdal of a suggestion that it is what they should be doing instead. Imagine a Jaguar clone announcement thread and me saying that the developers should work on something like this instead. Wouldn't it be random?

 

[rockmanjoe]

New cartridge console in 2015? Yeah, good luck with that.

 

[Zomba13]

That's a pretty big assumption on your part.

So if Nintendo said they were coming out with a new cartridge based system, nobody would support it?

Nintendo have a HD disc and digital based system and nobody supports it. I don't think a nobody start up 16-bit cartridge based console will get support. Even if Nintendo were the ones doing it they wouldn't get support.

 

[entremet]

They're riding the current retro cart wave.

 

[Tybolt]

I don't think an indie environment could thrive without bundles and Steam sales, so I imagine this thing would be dead in the water if it even gets anywhere near its goals in the first place.

 

[meppi]

Wonder if he's gonna threaten other consoles makers that have Retro in their name with legal action again this time around as well, like he did the people behind to certain retro fanzines... :-/

 

[Tain]

if this were actual 16 bit hardware games like Shovel Knight and Volgarr would need an awful lot of work to be ported to it

just pointing this out in case some of yall thought it would be a cheap thing to do

 

[BocoDragon]

I like the idea.... I'll watch it's progress.

 

[NoFaceNico]

How is it that they can't give details on what this thing is running on?

Gamester81 is involved in this project and has been working on a game for it.

So if anyone wants to see what the graphics look like on this thing, click here... if you dare!

I'm not kidding, it looks like what you would get on an N-Gage.

 

[Devilgunman]

That's a pretty big assumption on your part.

So if Nintendo said they were coming out with a new cartridge based system, nobody would support it?

They got such a huge support when N64 came out.

 

[MiszMasz]

If this lets me buy some of the best digital download only games in physical form then I'm interested just to add physical copies of games like Shovel Knight, Retro City Rampage, and the tons of others that don't have physical releases. I do realize I'm in the minority though.

https://theindiebox.com/

Review of their wares:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIDBSpUq2d4

These are popular indie games, in a physical box, with extra bits and pieces, on a USB stick, on Windows, OS X and Linux.

It'd be interesting to know how the IndieBox guys are doing financially and in terms of subscription numbers, because i'd imagine this 16bit console thing will be looking at just a fraction of the users and interest from devs.

 

[Zoolader]

Too ugly for my shelf space.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

Would be cool but I can't see it happening

 

[stan423321]

if this were actual 16 bit hardware games like Shovel Knight and Volgarr would need an awful lot of work to be ported to it

just pointing this out in case some of yall thought it would be a cheap thing to do

They're not saying it is actual 16-bit hardware though.

Even if it's said they're aiming for 16-bit graphics nothing is theoretically stopping the thing from containing whatever they wish to inside, and they seem to be aiming for phone-like hardware. They could just get a policy of not caring or even deliberately prohibiting games that would make more out of it.

Or they could do something more interesting, like a modern chip specifically designed to handle classic looking stuff well, but I'm afraid the dude is not in for this sort of fun.

 

[Tregard]

I'm trying to figure out what other 16-bit indie games there are that could make it to such a thing. VVVVVV? Super Crate Box? Super Puzzle Platformer?