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New EGM and GFW scores and such

traveler

Not Wario
Darji said:
Hmm you almost got it right: Ich heiße Will und komme aus Georgia (if you meant the country its Georgien . You dont need to put the second Ich in this sentence^^


I read the NWN2 review not for the Addon. And still 6.0 ist just ridiculous

I don't have the "ß" on my keyboard and I meant the state, not the country. Sorry for the redundancy in sentence structure, but, as you can see, I tend to state "I" more than once in English as well.

Read the addon's review as well. You can clearly see that Jeff appreciates the genre and is not some unqualified hack thrown onto the review to make the game look bad. I'd assume NW2 is quite a bit better than that original score indicated now as well, given the nature of PC releases and how they commonly show great improvement as patches and fixes are applied over time. For NW2, Jeff reviewed the initial, unfinished product and the review reflects that.
 

Narag

Member
Darji said:
why? because I am just pointing out my opinion and get insulted for this?^^

I think people are irritated as your opinion can be described as uninformed if you've neither played the game nor read the review text.
 
Captain Glanton said:
Oh fuck this. I'm going to bed.

On behalf of the serious posters on GAF, let me apologize to the serious reviewers out there [you know who you are] who take the time to write real text for your reviewers. Next time we should post entire text of reviews instead of scores; it would keep out the short attention span rabble.

I'm sure they don't mind the "short attention span rabble" and would rather these people buy the damn magazine for the written review instead of having it typed out here....for free.
 

Darji

Banned
traveler said:
I don't have the "ß" on my keyboard and I meant the state, not the country. Sorry for the redundancy in sentence structure, but, as you can see, I tend to state "I" more than once in English as well.

Read the addon's review as well. You can clearly see that Jeff appreciates the genre and is not some unqualified hack thrown onto the review to make the game look bad. I'd assume NW2 is quite a bit better than that original score indicated now as well, given the nature of PC releases and how they commonly show great improvement as patches and fixes are applied over time. For NW2, Jeff reviewed the initial, unfinished product and the review reflects that.
sure it got better after some patches but to begin with it was never a worse Game. At least the German or European version of the game^^

And hmm guess i will read the Review for the addon. later but now i am going to bed played enough NWN2^^
 

traveler

Not Wario
Darji said:
sure it got better after some patches but to begin with it was never a worse Game. At least the German or European version of the game^^

And hmm guess i will read the Review for the addon. later but now i am going to bed played enough NWN2^^

Guten Abend then! (I dunno the Deutsch word for "then")

Edit: I guess it would be "Nocht" hier, nicht abend.
 

Darji

Banned
Narag said:
I think people are irritated as your opinion can be described as uninformed if you've neither played the game nor read the review text.
so I cant argue about scores from games which i didnt played or read the review? :lol :lol

So 90% of these score threads are totally pointless?

Guten Abend then! (I dunno the Deutsch word for "then")
I would say "Gute Nacht" or "Na dann, gute Nacht"

But for a first year your german is very good. German is a very difficult language especialy the grammar.
 
Awesome thread. :lol

Based on entertaining value in this thread, in future, 1up/EGM should knock off 0.1 (doesn't matter if not fits in the review scale) point from the final review without any reason.
 

FartOfWar

Banned
I'm glad PC land is sort of its own world. I like to think that somewhere out there gamers exist who want reviews that make them think about the games that they play and why they enjoy them. What's this reading reviews just to see if the score matches your expectations shit? What's the point? So you can say, welp, we agree? If a review is well written, thoughtful, representative of an informed perspective, it shouldn't matter that the reviewer is not acting as your ventriloquist's dummy.

AltogetherAndrews and I apparently expect significantly different experiences from first-person shooters. I don't care what he thinks about the scores I assign Orange Box games, but I very much want him to read what I've written and understand why I (and others like Randy Pitchford and Ken Levine) appreciate them to the extent that I do. And I'd like for him to better understand his own perspective and the expectations that inform it by contrasting them with mine. This is not threatening. In my mind it's the stuff of legitimate criticism (as opposed to consumer reporting). I'm also convinced that not one GAF member "needed" a single review to tell them to buy or not buy Orange Box. Between the conversations that happen here and those you have offline, what's some stranger's two cents worth if all it amounts to is "buy" or "don't buy"?
 
Darji said:
so I cant argue about scores from games which i didnt played or read the review? :lol :lol

You're not arguing with any merit or experience whatsoever are you since you haven't played the game or even read the fucking review. You're just whining and have been for 9 hours now. Whining about a 8.5 of all things too.
 

traveler

Not Wario
Darji said:
so I cant argue about scores from games which i didnt played or read the review? :lol :lol

So 90% of these score threads are totally pointless?


I would say "Gute Nacht" or "Na dann, gute Nacht"

But for a first year yozr german is very good. German is a very difficult language especialy the grammar.

What does that literally translate to?

(And, so this thread stays on topic- despite the fact I think we were heading down a much more informative path- yes, most of these threads are pointless without snippets of review text. For most people, they give an idea of whether that game they were hyped for deserves their cash. Or, in some cases, they clue people in to games they might not have considered before. As to actual debate between opinions, it's rather useless until the games are actually out- which, in some cases, has already happened. See: the Orange Box and Halo 3)

Edit: Fart brings up a good point- where does the line between reviews and criticism (the two ARE different) lie and does it merit examining? For instance, do people even want criticism in their gaming mags or just reviews to look at from a buyer's guide perspective? Like he said, I didn't need any reviews to convince me to purchase the Orange Box, yet I read them anyway, if only to better understand and put into words how I felt about the games and compare/contrast that with others to see if experiences were similar or different.
 
Darji said:
so I cant argue about scores from games which i didnt played or read the review? :lol :lol

So 90% of these score threads are totally pointless?
:lol

How can you have a problem with a game's score if you have NEVER played it???

:lol :lol :lol

Holy cow, seriously.

Usually when someone complains about a score, its after they have played the game and come up with an informed opinion on the game's quality.
 

Darji

Banned
traveler said:
What does that literally translate to?

(And, so this thread stays on topic- despite the fact I think we were heading down a much more informative path- yes, most of these threads are pointless without snippets of review text. For most people, they give an idea of whether that game they were hyped for deserves their cash. Or, in some cases, they clue people in to games they might not have considered before. As to actual debate between opinions, it's rather useless until the games are actually out- which, in some cases, has already happened. See: the Orange Box and Halo 3)

It means some thing like you said, Good night then. The "Na dann" ist just a fill word like "well ....)

Usually when someone complains about a score, its after they have played the game and come up with an informed opinion on the game's quality.
You didnt read many score threads here or?^^

Many people here do argue about Reviews without even read the review but only see the score.
 

Ventrue

Member
Darji said:
I read the NWN2 review not for the Addon. And still 6.0 ist just ridiculous. It was/is a game that comes close to a Baldurs Gate 2 experience. Much closer than other newer games.

8.2 average vs 9.5 average. Note that G4 and two other sources also gave NWN2 a 6.

I know you're already stubbornly outspoken, but please do not lower the mightiness that is BG2.
 

Darji

Banned
Fart brings up a good point- where does the line between reviews and criticism (the two ARE different) lie and does it merit examining? For instance, do people even want criticism in their gaming mags or just reviews to look at from a buyer's guide perspective? Like he said, I didn't need any reviews to convince me to purchase the Orange Box, yet I read them anyway, if only to better understand and put into words how I felt about the games and compare/contrast that with others to see if experiences were similar or different.

OK one last post^^

I think most of the people here or in other gamingforums don need any reviews to decide to buy or not to buy. Only if its a new IP or you are only a bit interested in this game or this or that review totally convertet you. People even have special sites they think they have the same taste etc.

But most of the people who really depend on scores are casual ones. and thats why there is a magical 90% border for Reviews. Even I know many people who are buying games only when they got a 90 or higher because they dont have or dont want to spend much money on games. And this is why scores are so important for a sucssess of a game.


8.2 average vs 9.5 average.

I know you're already stubbornly outspoken, but please do not lower the mightiness that is BG2.
I never did. I just said that this game is the closest one to BG2. NWN2 is still far far away from BG2 but the other games are much farther^^
 
FartOfWar said:
I'm glad PC land is sort of its own world. I like to think that somewhere out there gamers exist who want reviews that make them think about the games that they play and why they enjoy them. What's this reading reviews just to see if the score matches your expectations shit? What's the point? So you can say, welp, we agree? If a review is well written, thoughtful, representative of an informed perspective, it shouldn't matter that the reviewer is not acting as your ventriloquist's dummy.

AltogetherAndrews and I apparently expect significantly different experiences from first-person shooters. I don't care what he thinks about the scores I assign Orange Box games, but I very much want him to read what I've written and understand why I (and others like Randy Pitchford and Ken Levine) appreciate them to the extent that I do. And I'd like for him to better understand his own perspective and the expectations that inform it by contrasting them with mine. This is not threatening. In my mind it's the stuff of legitimate criticism (as opposed to consumer reporting).

To be fair, my initial post on the matter was formulated as a question, albeit one that perhaps failed to relay much of a genuine request for additional information but rather showed a gut reaction based on my personal opinion of what its score should be was the world shaped more in my image. And you know, scores serve as just that, as attraction devices for personal reaction from fans, "haters" and observers, and I honestly don't believe they have much value beyond that. I would like for reviews to be written and presented in such a way that they are interesting, but most of all informative of what the product being reviewed is actually all about. It doesn't necessarily have to mean more words, just something that is structured in such a way that I can come away from reading reviews having a fair idea of what the value of the game is, for me and for others.

I'll be sure to read your review later tonight (or morning, really), and if this thread is still open I'll chime in. As said, it may be that we just plain don't see eye to eye on what makes a game a worthwhile thing, but we'll see. In any event, I appreciate the patience. ;)


traveler said:
Edit: Fart brings up a good point- where does the line between reviews and criticism (the two ARE different) lie and does it merit examining? For instance, do people even want criticism in their gaming mags or just reviews to look at from a buyer's guide perspective? Like he said, I didn't need any reviews to convince me to purchase the Orange Box, yet I read them anyway, if only to better understand and put into words how I felt about the games and compare/contrast that with others to see if experiences were similar or different.

I read them for fun, and perhaps just to get another take on it. Sometimes there's a quality to a game that I've actually missed, and a good review, a rare thing indeed, might be able to pinpoint that. And then I read some reviews written by known buttholes just because I need some easy agitation to go with my morning coffee. There's the odd review where I'm actually looking for information on whether a game is worth a purchase or not, but the aforementioned poor standards in reviews makes that a rare occurrence.
 

MC Safety

Member
traveler said:
Edit: Fart brings up a good point- where does the line between reviews and criticism (the two ARE different) lie and does it merit examining? For instance, do people even want criticism in their gaming mags or just reviews to look at from a buyer's guide perspective? Like he said, I didn't need any reviews to convince me to purchase the Orange Box, yet I read them anyway, if only to better understand and put into words how I felt about the games and compare/contrast that with others to see if experiences were similar or different.

Reviews are critical.

Without critical thought and interpretation, it's not a review.
 

Gattsu25

Banned
fortified_concept said:
So in most PS3 reviews they score the games lower than the gamerankings average. Hey let's see the X360 reviews!

PDZ:
Gamerankings: 81%
1up: 90%

PGR3:
Gamerankings: 88%
1up: 100%

Viva Pinata:
Gamerankings: 85%
1up: 90%

Gears of War:
Gamerankings: 94%
1up: 100%

Halo 3:
Gamerankings: 93%
1up: 100%

etc etc

Yeap they aren't inconsistent at all! Honestly the only high profile X360 game I found with a lower score was PGR4 (Gamerankings 87%, 1up 85%). FAIR AND BALANCED.

Btw the post wasn't ready yet geniuses, that's why I edited.
Lower or higher, when the difference in scores is that low, it doesn't freaking matter

I've personally never understood the general fury people get over review scores. My only instance of caring about a reviewer's score was in the case of UG&G and that was more because of the number of times Parish's opinion was published and not specifically the score. I mean...why get a G&G hater to review the same game, three times, in nearly identical reviews?
 

Ponn

Banned
lupin23rd said:
Ninja Gaiden 2?
Final Fantasy 13?
Resident Evil 5?

My bets are on MGS4 being the early bird special.

or White Knight Chronicles

oh and...GO GO Eye of Judgement!
 
hydragonwarrior said:
I'm sure they don't mind the "short attention span rabble" and would rather these people buy the damn magazine for the written review instead of having it typed out here....for free.


I mind their taking over these review and sales threads every month, though. I still think that it's a problem for our hobby that at what is/should be the "knowledgeable" board [for lack of a better term], we get these monthly temper tantrums.
 

Tieno

Member
FartOfWar said:
I'm glad PC land is sort of its own world. I like to think that somewhere out there gamers exist who want reviews that make them think about the games that they play and why they enjoy them. What's this reading reviews just to see if the score matches your expectations shit? What's the point? So you can say, welp, we agree? If a review is well written, thoughtful, representative of an informed perspective, it shouldn't matter that the reviewer is not acting as your ventriloquist's dummy.

AltogetherAndrews and I apparently expect significantly different experiences from first-person shooters. I don't care what he thinks about the scores I assign Orange Box games, but I very much want him to read what I've written and understand why I (and others like Randy Pitchford and Ken Levine) appreciate them to the extent that I do. And I'd like for him to better understand his own perspective and the expectations that inform it by contrasting them with mine. This is not threatening. In my mind it's the stuff of legitimate criticism (as opposed to consumer reporting). I'm also convinced that not one GAF member "needed" a single review to tell them to buy or not buy Orange Box. Between the conversations that happen here and those you have offline, what's some stranger's two cents worth if all it amounts to is "buy" or "don't buy"?
You summed up perfectly why I read reviews (although I don't read that many), and why even when I don't agree with them, it's helpful. Most of the reviews I read/watch/listen are after I have finished the game, especially when it's stuck in my head. With Halo it isn't of much use though, cause by now I know pretty well why I like that game so much. But with Bioshock it helped a lot. This is also why I like the discussion format on 1upyours and gfw.
 
Borys said:
Meh @ HL2 vs Halo 3 battle.

As much as I despise Halo fans and the Xbox 360, Halo 3 is at least a new game and that fact alone makes it better than 4 year old, rehashed PC game.

Hell if you are gonna be a whiney little bitch at least get release dates correct.
HL2 was released in 2004. 04-07 = THREE YEARS.
 
Darji said:
OK one last post^^

I think most of the people here or in other gamingforums don need any reviews to decide to buy or not to buy. Only if its a new IP or you are only a bit interested in this game or this or that review totally convertet you. People even have special sites they think they have the same taste etc.

But most of the people who really depend on scores are casual ones. and thats why there is a magical 90% border for Reviews. Even I know many people who are buying games only when they got a 90 or higher because they dont have or dont want to spend much money on games. And this is why scores are so important for a sucssess of a game.


I never did. I just said that this game is the closest one to BG2. NWN2 is still far far away from BG2 but the other games are much farther^^
Ignoring...now.
 
Halo missed the perfect trifecta of Platinums by a point.

Which shocks me after Halo 2 got a Platinum. If H2 got it, H3 deserves it ten times over.
 

Hunter D

Member
I think its pretty stupid that people bring up a year+ old scores to use as comparisons. If Unchartered doesn't get a higher score than Tomb Raider 1 or Prince of Persia will you guys bitch about that too?
 

Brakara

Member
Hunter D said:
I think its pretty stupid that people bring up a year+ old scores to use as comparisons. If Unchartered doesn't get a higher score than Tomb Raider 1 or Prince of Persia will you guys bitch about that too?

God help us all if it doesn't get a higher score than the 360 version of TR:A.
 

DrXym

Member
Wow Jericho got killed. And I thought the PSN demo looked like a fairly responsive shooter with interesting weapons. Having said that it didn't do much for me and I deleted it pretty fast.
 
FartOfWar said:
I'm glad PC land is sort of its own world. I like to think that somewhere out there gamers exist who want reviews that make them think about the games that they play and why they enjoy them. What's this reading reviews just to see if the score matches your expectations shit? What's the point? So you can say, welp, we agree? If a review is well written, thoughtful, representative of an informed perspective, it shouldn't matter that the reviewer is not acting as your ventriloquist's dummy.

AltogetherAndrews and I apparently expect significantly different experiences from first-person shooters. I don't care what he thinks about the scores I assign Orange Box games, but I very much want him to read what I've written and understand why I (and others like Randy Pitchford and Ken Levine) appreciate them to the extent that I do. And I'd like for him to better understand his own perspective and the expectations that inform it by contrasting them with mine. This is not threatening. In my mind it's the stuff of legitimate criticism (as opposed to consumer reporting). I'm also convinced that not one GAF member "needed" a single review to tell them to buy or not buy Orange Box. Between the conversations that happen here and those you have offline, what's some stranger's two cents worth if all it amounts to is "buy" or "don't buy"?

that would be a truly wonderful sentiment if most reviewers were actually credible authorities on games in general. but they are not, and as a result we get the latest round of "lol a koei rehash" slamfests (while they treat the latest "ea sports rehash" with almost untenable gravitas) and snarky eye-rolling segues describing their inappropriate disaffection for dungeon crawlers. in the real world, game reviewers are generally no more than strident genre fans and nostalgia addicts with often irrelevant college degrees -- if they even have a degree when apparently participation in a popular fansite will suffice. you wanna talk about proper criticism in a sub-industry that quietly exults the dave halversons of the community (even as they vocally condemn them), and to whom a classical education is completely irrelevant as long as you can name the associate producers and scenario designers on zoe2? yeeeeeaaaah.
 

Darji

Banned
Hunter D said:
I think its pretty stupid that people bring up a year+ old scores to use as comparisons. If Unchartered doesn't get a higher score than Tomb Raider 1 or Prince of Persia will you guys bitch about that too?
why? You should compare it with the titles that availible in this genre and the Rachet games are one of the best only Mario is better.
 

Hunter D

Member
Darji said:
why? You should compare it with the titles that availible in this genre and the Rachet games are one of the best only Mario is better.
I can see why people have you on ignore. Do you not understand that things change as time passes and more games are released?
 

Darji

Banned
Hunter D said:
I can see why people have you on ignore. Do you not understand that things change as time passes and more games are released?
So? Why did Halo 3 or a Mario a 10 its always the same. For example Mario sunshine. There were almost nothing new still it got ultrahigh ratings.

And I dont want a fucking 10 but a 9 would be suited. Its a new reference and first real next gen platformer. What else do you need?
 
FabCam said:
I seriously don't get the scores for Folklore. It got 9's and 5's. How can the game vary so much.

because as white man said, in terms of implementation and mechanics, it's a brokedown horse of a game. it also has a terrible -- TERRIBLE -- localization effort, with a gibberish plot and hilariously stilted dialogue. the linear levels and crude beat-em-up gameplay, as well as the repeating locales, are tiresome and largely demand very, very little from the player. it is ultimately a museum game - a game where you ooh and ahh as you tread small linear areas back and forth -- and those are possibly the most divisive games out there, since they demand complete immersion yet offer very poor gameplay mechanics. if you're on the "immersion" side, you'll probably love the game and hardly mind the flaws. if you're on the "mechanics" side, games like this will frustrate and ultimately bore you completely. 9. 5. simple!
 

Darji

Banned
PepsimanVsJoe said:
He was banned for awhile. Unfortunately I think somebody out there has a soft spot for him.
I am glad that you only will last here till the next year according to your bets ^^
 

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
Drinky Crow said:
because as white man said, in terms of implementation and mechanics, it's a brokedown horse of a game. it also has a terrible -- TERRIBLE -- localization effort, with a gibberish plot and hilariously stilted dialogue. the linear levels and crude beat-em-up gameplay, as well as the repeating locales, are tiresome and largely demand very, very little from the player. it is ultimately a museum game - a game where you ooh and ahh as you tread small linear areas back and forth -- and those are possibly the most divisive games out there, since they demand complete immersion yet offer very poor gameplay mechanics. if you're on the "immersion" side, you'll probably love the game and hardly mind the flaws. if you're on the "mechanics" side, games like this will frustrate and ultimate bore you completely. 9. 5. simple!

So in summary biased is the problem. Just give the man what he wants.
 
AstroLad said:
So in summary biased is the problem. Just give the man what he wants.


game pundits hate the ps3 because they resent massively parallel architectures wed to budget gpu solutions. man, this one egm reviewer i talked to said he secretly loved the ps3 much as a wachowski brother likes getting a riding crop up his pooter from an obese woman in leather, but he felt that in the greater interest of preventing the spread of out-of-order execution programming matrices and asynchronous bus timing models that would ultimately be constrained by fillrate opportunities, he had to adopt the log cabin republican approach: bash ps3 games in print whenever possible. sorry, folklore: spe chaining algorithms cost you those 4 points.
 

Druz

Member
Borys said:
Meh @ HL2 vs Halo 3 battle.

As much as I despise Halo fans and the Xbox 360, Halo 3 is at least a new game and that fact alone makes it better than 4 year old, rehashed PC game.

You're a joke.
 
Darji said:
So? Why did Halo 3 or a Mario a 10 its always the same. For example Mario sunshine. There were almost nothing new still it got ultrahigh ratings.

And I dont want a fucking 10 but a 9 would be suited. Its a new reference and first real next gen platformer. What else do you need?

you're almost implausibly stupid. have you even played the "new" r&c? if anything, it embodies the oft-repeated if rarely justified complaint that next-gen is just last-gen in high-definition. much as i hate nintendo and their ill-begotten nostalgia-addled fanboy ilk, super mario galaxy is wholly evolved in terms of mechanics. r&c is straight-up r&c 5 with a glossy coat of super-de-duper high-resolution varnish. i'm shocked that r&c 5 is getting the stellar scores it is -- if any book or film dared be as unambitious as it is, it'd be skewered as mediocre and derivative. fortunately for insomniac, games are different beasts, and many of us -- myself included -- don't mind more of the same.
 
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