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[Sini]

The thing is, that's not true. It's pretty clear that they don't iluminate the same way the player does. And yeah, they don't project shadows eiher. So, how can you people still say it's the best lighting engine?

Nothing I have said so far is false. But... Other cars seem to have significantly narrower and shorter beams of light so your statement that those lights are different is true. But they are still not faked or baked.

They do? Check the signs, check the flags in the left. Now tell me they're lighten by other cars. They don't. It's the same effect (or a more advanced one) MGS has been using for the guards for a long time. This is not dynamic lighting.

It is still dynamic lighting.

Show me example of MGS guard lights. First Crysis had fake flashlights for NPC's for example.


Edit: Project Cars has lights with same reach for all cars so it's really strange why DC doesn't. Player car headlights do cast shadows in PC too.
Since they both seem to use deferred rendering or at least hybrid approach, unshadowed lights of any size shouldn't be expensive to use.

 

[Synth]

Let's talk about DriveClubs static image 'reflections' in the rear view mirrors

http://youtu.be/ny3JYGXCmFg?t=57s

(At 58sec)

Wait... wtf?...

 

[Sini]

Wait... wtf?...

Hah, that seemed too good to be true.

 

[Risk Breaker]

Let's talk about DriveClubs static image 'reflections' in the rear view mirrors

http://youtu.be/ny3JYGXCmFg?t=57s

(At 58sec)

Rearview mirror reflection when outside the car (rendering tens of mirrors that the player won't even see 99% of the time would be really stupid) vs. reflections in the body of the car right in front of you. I think one might be more important than the other, but I dunno.

 

[farisr]

Let's talk about DriveClubs static image 'reflections' in the rear view mirrors

http://youtu.be/ny3JYGXCmFg?t=57s

(At 58sec)

Weird, in that vid, some shots they're completely static, others they're properly reflecting in similar situations.

So far, haven't caught any static shots in the last three gameplay vids they released

 

[Self_Destructive]

Rearview mirror reflection when outside the car (rendering tens of mirrors that the player won't even see 99% of the time would be really stupid) vs. reflections in the body of the car right in front of you. I think one might be more important than the other, but I dunno.

Both are equally important. A better solution would be to render the lowest res reflection map possible. At least that wouldn't look retarded.

 

[eso76]

Wait.

Are you guys telling me I can't see the road ahead reflected in the drivers eyes reflected in the rear view mirror in DC ?
Lol, Next gen !

 

[Gestault]

Replay mode WebMs. Looks real. Damn.

Unfortunately actual gameplay graphics seem less than stellar...

Oh man, thank you! Replays look nice. I'm a little surprised at how the first gameplay clip looks, and not in a good way :/ Last two look nice though.

 

[Chozolore]

I can't understand the hate for Froza, it looks and runs awesome. Sure it has some aliasing, but when your racing the main thing that matters is the high frame rate.

In my opinion it looks just as good as what I have seen of DriveClub, the impressive thing DriveClub has going for it is the lighting system, which you get in exchange for the frame rate.

As a person who loves sim racing, I would take the frame rate over the lighting.

I'd have to agree with you, have we had a 30 fps racer for a while?

 

[fasTRapid]

I do notice that you bring up the way gifs can artificially give a better impression of a game for times various titles get praise from people, but I've never seen you do so for the same reactions to Driveclub gifs, even within the same thread. Is that an unfair observation?

No, it's absolutely not an unfair observation as you're right and I'm rather impressed you actually took the time to link some examples. I'm euphoric for Driveclub and to this date I haven't seen anything that's really underwhelming from the game whereas I can't say the same for either Forza or PCars. They have both fundamentally obvious flaws of their own that I, probably because I'm biased toward it since I'm getting it for free, can't find in Driveclub. So, please take it for what you want, but personally, I find GIFs of Driveclub to be more reflective of the actual graphics than GIFs of the other games because Driveclub looks throughout all the footage I've seen so far perfect in its own world. What I mean is, if you saw the original footage, you'd be wow-ed and if you saw the GIFs you'd be wow-ed even more due to the downsampling but for PCars or Forza, most of the GIFs' footage wouldn't wow me, when I saw it in its original res because they each don't have that perfection of their own. They're not as immersive and their flaws are for me easier to spot.

I hope I somehow got my point across. And I hope this won't be summed up to just 'ugh, fanboy' or something along the lines. I'm not saying Driveclub doesn't have flaws. There are some, but they don't take away from the immersion due to the equal quality and perfect design across the board. PCars and Forza both have more obvious flaws that stand out (e.g. the environments in PCars are really telling you're looking at a video game) when viewed in native and profit more from downsampling to GIF form.

 

[Gestault]

No, it's absolutely not an unfair observation as you're right and I'm rather impressed you actually took the time to link some examples. I'm euphoric for Driveclub and to this date I haven't seen anything that's really underwhelming from the game whereas I can't say the same for either Forza or PCars. They have both fundamentally obvious flaws of their own that I, probably because I'm biased toward it since I'm getting it for free, can't find in Driveclub. So, please take it for what you want, but personally, I find GIFs of Driveclub to be more reflective of the actual graphics than GIFs of the other games because Driveclub looks throughout all the footage I've seen so far perfect in its own world. What I mean is, if you saw the original footage, you'd be wow-ed and if you saw the GIFs you'd be wow-ed even more due to the downsampling but for PCars or Forza, most GIFs wouldn't wow me, when I saw the original footage because they each don't have that perfection of their own. They're not as immersive.

I hope I somehow got my point across. And I hope this won't be summed up to just 'ugh, fanboy' or something along the lines. I'm not saying Driveclub doesn't have flaws. There are some, but they don't take away from the immersion due to the equal quality and perfect design across the board. PCars and Forza both have more obvious flaws that stand out (e.g. the environments in PCars are really telling you're looking at a video game) when viewed in native and profit more from downsampling.

I really appreciate your frank response. I think everyone here can relate to enthusiasm effecting how they react to things, and there's definitely a lot to be excited about in Driveclub. It's going to be cool seeing that game progress even further as it gets deeper into the last stages of development, and how it looks in-hand at release.

 

[dr guildo]

Let's talk about DriveClubs static image 'reflections' in the rear view mirrors

http://youtu.be/ny3JYGXCmFg?t=57s

(At 58sec)

AI Cars I guess...

 

[Risk Breaker]

Wait.

Are you guys telling me I can't see the road ahead reflected in the drivers eyes reflected in the rear view mirror in DC ?
Lol, Next gen !

The drivers' eyes reflection of the driver's glasses is not reflected on the rearview mirror's reflection on the windshield SMH

 

[ed3dfx]

one of the members (Alex Hobbs) of the project CARS community has captured some cool stunts/drifts in the 1m coupe. Thought some of you may enjoy, he doesnt have a GAF account so I'm posting these for him :

 

[Gestault]

one of the members (Alex Hobbs) of the project CARS community has captured some cool stunts/drifts in the 1m coupe. Thought some of you may enjoy, he doesnt have a GAF account so I'm posting these for him :

That shot in particular is incredible.

 

[Fredrik]

Out of those mentioned in the OP.

In still shots - Driveclub, hands down, when it's out. Looks amazing in every way.

In motion - Forza 5 right now and Project Cars when it's out on PC at high famerates.

NFS Rivals is the true looker right now though if you ignore the low framerate, I get amazed every time how awesome the weather effects and crashes etc looks, it's really amazing and it's a launch game, can't wait to see the next NFS.

 

[nib95]

Weird, in that vid, some shots they're completely static, others they're properly reflecting in similar situations.

So far, haven't caught any static shots in the last three gameplay vids they released

It's likely build differences. For example crowds look crap in the new direct feed screens, with weird angular arms etc, no such thing in the new gameplay footage. The trees also don't appear to have self shadowing in the screens either, whilst they do in gameplay. Be interesting to compare these two games when they're both released. Evolution has a reputation for late dev cycle heavy optimisations.

 

[MrChowderClams]

one of the members (Alex Hobbs) of the project CARS community has captured some cool stunts/drifts in the 1m coupe. Thought some of you may enjoy, he doesnt have a GAF account so I'm posting these for him :

 

[Leb]

That shot in particular is incredible.

Well, it looks indistinguishable from real life, and so in that sense, it's perfectly mundane.

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

Did PCars win yet?

 

[SFenton]

My God *all* of these games are beautiful.
Like, holy shit, I can't believe this is all doable on our consoles now.

 

[cobragt4001]

Wow Pcars will make me get back into racing games. DC looks great but it being 30fps is a major turnoff for me. As far as realistic visuals go, I have to give Pcars the win on that. Pcars just looks a lot more realistic to me; can't wait to run that bad boy at 60fps.

 

[RSB]

Is this real life?

 

[shinnn]

What are you talking about. Driveclub reflects the exact same way based on the stuf we've seen.

But because the cars shown have very steeply angled windshields, (they are supercars for a reason) it's physically impossible to reflect the wheel and hands from the cockpit view.

Show me Driveclub footage where the reflection should have been visible but it isn't.

Most of night videos the side window reflect a static velocimeter (and do not show the wheel or arms).

I think the reflections on DC are good, and the dirty effects are awesome (PGR3 did it in 2005 though). But the footages released so far do not show real-time reflections like the ones in Forza 5.

Now that people talked about the FM5 reflections, I think it is indeed innacurate in some circunstances, but looks nice and shows something that I never seen before. Same as the cars reflecting each other in DC.

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

Most of night videos the side window reflect a static velocimeter (and do not show the wheel or arms).

I think the reflections on DC are good, and the dirty effects are awesome (PGR3 did it in 2005 though). But the footages released so far do not show real-time reflections like the ones in Forza 5.

Now that people talked about the FM5 reflections, I think it is indeed innacurate in some circunstances, but looks nice and shows something that I never seen before. Same as the cars reflecting each other in DC.

The drive club reflections are real time, they carry the appropriate specular highlight based on sun position.

 

[Filaipus]

It amazes me how some people can say that Forza 5 is ugly.

Driveclub is a step ahead of it but both are gorgeous.

 

[strata8]

The ones that aren't doing baked lighting, paper cutout crowds, painted skies, and static backdrops.

That's a bit unfair to Turn 10, considering Forza 5 was a launch title, running at 1080p/60fps on a weaker console that has trouble with higher resolutions.

Note that Forza Horizon on the 360 had a day/night cycle, 3D crowds and image-based lighting at a perfect 720p/30fps. With 4xAA no less.

 

[shinnn]

The drive club reflections are real time, they carry the appropriate specular highlight based on sun position.

My god. But not like the ones in FM5. Someone said that liked the reflections on FM5, and other guy said it was the same in DC. And it is not the same. In FM5 you see objects in movement being reflected in the window, while in DC those objects are static or absent.

here is another example

 

[Apophis2036]

That's a bit unfair to Turn 10, considering Forza 5 was a launch title, running at 1080p/60fps on a weaker console that has trouble with higher resolutions.

Note that Forza Horizon on the 360 had a day/night cycle, 3D crowds and image-based lighting at a perfect 720p/30fps. With 4xAA no less.

Beautiful game, can't wait to see FH2 at E3 if the rumours about it are true.

 

[adelante]

My god. But not like the ones in FM5. Someone said that liked the reflections on FM5, and other guy said it was the same in DC. And it is not the same. In FM5 you see objects in movement being reflected in the window, while in DC those objects are static or absent.

here is another example

What's impressive about Forza's windshield reflections is that you see light effects on materials or objects that are occluded from your view.. Stuff you can't see. Every single speculate highlights, shadows.. BEHIND the steering wheel, for instance. It's like they have a virtual camera positioned such that its facing you and the video feed is being projected on the windshield as a translucent texture. As opposed to the reflections in DriveClub, which at first glance looks like a fairly "simple" screen space setup.

Someone brought up the headlights from DriveClub's AI cars not casting shadows.. (nevermind that the fact that their headlight beams aren't as powerful as the player's) And I recall seeing a PCars video where that graphical feature actually exists. Not only that, latter even had cars casting environmental shadows which the cars in DriveClub doesn't seem to do, let alone the player's own car. I need to find that video.

 

[travisbickle]

Some people need to learn how light works.

For a quick lesson go buy two torches, the same power, turn them both on and place one next to you and and the other 20 feet away.

See the torch closes to you appears brighter, now is it magically that the light nearest you has suddenly become more powerful? Or that it's the science behind how light travels?

 

[Angelus Errare]

He is talking about the hands/wheel being reflected in real-time. This is not present in Driveclub

Misread the absolute fuck outta your post.

 

[Vanillalite]

Something about Project Cars just makes the cars really stand out in contrast to everything else visually in the game. I can't really explain it. The cars just stand out and don't blend well with the background if that makes sense.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

That's a bit unfair to Turn 10, considering Forza 5 was a launch title, running at 1080p/60fps on a weaker console that has trouble with higher resolutions.

Note that Forza Horizon on the 360 had a day/night cycle, 3D crowds and image-based lighting at a perfect 720p/30fps. With 4xAA no less.

Playground + Turn 10 is a godly combination, Horizon still looks gorgeous. Horizon 2 will be glorious, I have no doubt about it.

 

[nib95]

That's a bit unfair to Turn 10, considering Forza 5 was a launch title, running at 1080p/60fps on a weaker console that has trouble with higher resolutions.

Note that Forza Horizon on the 360 had a day/night cycle, 3D crowds and image-based lighting at a perfect 720p/30fps. With 4xAA no less.

See, that still looks amazing to me. Personally I can't wait to see what Forza Horizon 2 looks and plays like. I feel like it could be one of the Xbox One's stand out games, and should certainly be a technical showcase for the system.

In a way it's good that both FH2 and DriveClub are there, because as much as they're similar in genre, they're still different in many core principles. From what I can gather FH2 will be based mainly in an open world, South of States type rural setting, whilst DriveClub is going for a more diverse range of massive scope tracks plotted across the entire globe.

Then we have ProjectCars which is going for something a little more focused, and based on more real world race tracks alike.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

See, that still looks amazing to me. Personally I can't wait to see what Forza Horizon 2 looks and plays like. I feel like it could be one of the Xbox One's stand out games, and should certainly be a technical showcase for the system.

In a way it's good that both FH2 and DriveClub are there, because as much as they're similar in genre, they're still different in many core principles. From what I can gather FH2 will be based mainly in an open world, South of States type rural setting, whilst DriveClub is going for a more diverse range of massive scope tracks plotted across the entire globe.

Then we have ProjectCars which is going for something a little more focused, and based on more real world race tracks alike.

Yes, they're all very different, which is a good thing for multiple console owners.

 

[Mascot]

Jumping between Forza, Shift 2, GT5 and Grid 2 recently and I'm deluding myself if I think 30fps won't kill Driveclub for me.

pCARS has me most excited, especially if the recent rumours about Logitech support on the PS4 prove right, and if SMS nail their targeted 60fps.

 

[p3tran]

Some people need to learn how light works.

For a quick lesson go buy two torches, the same power, turn them both on and place one next to you and and the other 20 feet away.

See the torch closes to you appears brighter, now is it magically that the light nearest you has suddenly become more powerful? Or that it's the science behind how light travels?

quick lesson? really?
how about a quick lesson for you instead?
you buy yourself two strong flashlights, and you play with the beams. when you focus the beams in the same spot, luminosity increases.
hey, light 101..

 

[Synth]

That's a bit unfair to Turn 10, considering Forza 5 was a launch title, running at 1080p/60fps on a weaker console that has trouble with higher resolutions.

That wasn't even the main issue with his post. In his rush to shit all over Turn 10, he didn't notice that Polyphony Digital and Slightly Mad Studios are also at 60fps. Saying Evolution are beating the top dogs for "real car racing" is some BS, because the top dogs aren't making 30fps, hybrid arcade racers, set purely on fictional tracks with huge creative license when it comes to physics, and a disregard for mechanical damage.

If Polyphony decides to make their own take on a Project Gotham, Forza Horizon or Need for Speed game, then we'll see if they can't offer up Driveclub style visuals...

 

[legacyzero]

But seriously, Mario Kart looks great. Also, DAT DRIVECLUB.

 

[Shyakugaun]

I never played the first Forza Horizon, with all this hype around it i cant wait to see number 2 at E3 2014

 

[travisbickle]

quick lesson? really?
how about a quick lesson for you instead?
you buy yourself two strong flashlights, and you play with the beams. when you focus the beams in the same spot, luminosity increases.
hey, light 101..

I don't understand what you mean? I should have quoted this post on my reply

Someone brought up the headlights from DriveClub's AI cars not casting shadows.. (nevermind that the fact that their headlight beams aren't as powerful as the player's) And I recall seeing a PCars video where that graphical feature actually exists. Not only that, latter even had cars casting environmental shadows which the cars in DriveClub doesn't seem to do, let alone the player's own car. I need to find that video.

The intensity of the light is dependent on how close the source is to the viewer, it happens all the time on the motorway when it looks like someone in front doesn't have their lights on, but they are being drowned out by your own headlights.

 

[Raist]

Huh. I wouldn't bring up F5 in a discussion about reflections, considering how poorly it's done. No, windshield reflections shouldn't be a 1:1 mirror image, just like reflections on car shouldn't show elements of the HUD.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

I never played the first Forza Horizon, with all this hype around it i cant wait to see number 2 at E3 2014

Do you have a 360? Play it now, you won't find a better use for your time.

Come to think of it, I should play it again, I've only played it together with my girlfriend, on her gamertag.

 

[Durante]

one of the members (Alex Hobbs) of the project CARS community has captured some cool stunts/drifts in the 1m coupe. Thought some of you may enjoy, he doesnt have a GAF account so I'm posting these for him :

As someone who has no idea about cars (beyond the basics of driving one safely), I just want to make sure: you can do this kind of shit in real life?

 

[Tripolygon]

As someone who has no idea about cars (beyond the basics of driving one safely), I just want to make sure: you can do this kind of shit in real life?

Yes, many skilled drivers can.

 

[p3tran]

As someone who has no idea about cars (beyond the basics of driving one safely), I just want to make sure: you can do this kind of shit in real life?

sure you can, and its a lot of fun too!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XepxWIFvNk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2pHe17nYh4

car stunts are great, but a game needs a really solid system underneath and good physics before there is any point even mentioning them..

on topic, I have to say that project cars is looking like it has achieved gran turismo next gen levels of replays. pretty awesome those fixed, distant cams.

 

[fresquito]

on topic, I have to say that project cars is looking like it has achieved gran turismo next gen levels of replays. pretty awesome those fixed, distant cams.

Looks like those have been recorded using the free cam.

 

[shinnn]

sure you can, and its a lot of fun too!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XepxWIFvNk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2pHe17nYh4

wow this is awesome.

The best I can do is some donuts lol

 

[tasch]

I think every racing game developer needs to do research on dust/smoke. It's the one thing that seems to always be at such a lower consistency graphically in racing games.

Every time i see those strange puffs i cringe a little.