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Nintendo 3DS technical discuss thread: lets talk about this here
- Thread starter BDGAME
- Start date
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
The game was released on DS (not 3DS). So its going to look worse then iPhones port and playing it on the 3DS isn't helping either. Just saying.The Lamonster said:
Bluemercury
Member
StuBurns said:
Really the videos looked great, what gives?
Bluemercury
Member
StuBurns said:
So what does not look poor to you???
radioheadrule83
Banned
The resolution doesn't matter all that much, the 3DS sceen has a slightly better pixel density than VITAs OLED screen - although obviously its much smaller and less sexy. The vertical resolution is a bit of a bummer, aliasing will be more obvious I'm not denying that, but if it was pushing polys and effects closer to VITAs level, and was able to internally render at higher resolutions, people here wouldn't bitch too much about that. If people make 2D-mode only games and use the full horizontal resolution available (800 I believe?), games could look quite nice.
I didn't know the clock speed of the PICA inside 3DS wasn't known... is that because the PICA element is included in the custom SOC CPU inside or something?
I didn't know the clock speed of the PICA inside 3DS wasn't known... is that because the PICA element is included in the custom SOC CPU inside or something?
radioheadrule83
Banned
The Lamonster said:
Isn't Plants Vs Zombies a DSi title?
I think the first MGS3 video looked much better.Bluemercury said:
RE:R, at least based on the demo, is all tiny little spaces, the monsters look terrible, there are never many of them on screen. RE4 on GC looked massively better.
It's hard to be impressed technically with a dedicated handheld that's outclassed by my phone.
Anasui Kishibe
Banned
Smiles and Cries said:I just want more games
I concur
on topic: eh, screen is what it is, scaled games will look always worse than, say, huge open worlds like Xenoblade
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
It seems about Dreamcast level with improved lighting so far.
Biggest problem to me is the low res screen and no AA. Hopefully games will start to use AA to compensate for the low res screen at some point.
Biggest problem to me is the low res screen and no AA. Hopefully games will start to use AA to compensate for the low res screen at some point.
Whoa whoa, the 3DS definitely does NOT have a better pixel density. The effective resolution that one sees while viewing the screen is only 400×240. It's considered 800x240 due to the way it handles 3D, but to the eye (in both 2D and 3D) it's definitely 400x240. The PSP screen was 480x272, for reference, while the Vita screen is 960x540. That's a MASSIVE increase in resolution.radioheadrule83 said:
The effective 3DS pixel density is: 132.15 ppi
The Vita comes in at: 219.32
The Vita screen will definitely appear much sharper to the viewer as a result.
It doesn't look BAD by any means, but the environment is extremely small, the textures are blurry, shadows are pretty ragged around the edges, there are very few creatures on screen at once and two of them together results in slowdown. It doesn't even match the level of detail present in MGS2 at this point. The original videos shown by Capcom were very impressive, but the demo really wasn't. Again, it's still attractive, but it's a far cry from RE4 let alone RE5.Bluemercury said:
One of the most important technical fact about 3DS is that it doesn't support fragment programs. It's the only currently relevant platform for which this is the case. Even if some common effects could be replicated using the fixed function hardware, this still means that it requires an entirely separate software and content creation ecosystem. I think this decision will come back to haunt Nintendo.
Probably more so than the fact which annoys me most personally, which is that the GPU can't do any efficient AA. This is particularly enervating considering the low display resolution, and how good most other portable GPUs are at this.
Probably more so than the fact which annoys me most personally, which is that the GPU can't do any efficient AA. This is particularly enervating considering the low display resolution, and how good most other portable GPUs are at this.
People are getting used to the hardware.
Nintendo used a proprietory GPU with the DS, so they made the API themselves and knew how to handle the system. This time they have to make an API (or use DMPs) for a third party GPU, like a console, so it will take time to see good games.
Remember when the Wii first launched? We all know it is more powerful than the PS2, yet 3/4th of the games do not look as good as the PS2's best.
If Nintendo is using DMP's API, it should support fragment programs. DMP's API is a beast for the PICA200. I just have no idea if Nintendo made their own or are using DMP's.
It can do up to 8x AA I think though, super sample. Just no one wants to do it. Now that Iwata came out and said devs can make games without 3D, maybe we'll see more developers try to act on that.
Nintendo used a proprietory GPU with the DS, so they made the API themselves and knew how to handle the system. This time they have to make an API (or use DMPs) for a third party GPU, like a console, so it will take time to see good games.
Remember when the Wii first launched? We all know it is more powerful than the PS2, yet 3/4th of the games do not look as good as the PS2's best.
If Nintendo is using DMP's API, it should support fragment programs. DMP's API is a beast for the PICA200. I just have no idea if Nintendo made their own or are using DMP's.
It can do up to 8x AA I think though, super sample. Just no one wants to do it. Now that Iwata came out and said devs can make games without 3D, maybe we'll see more developers try to act on that.
Paracelsus
Member
All I want to know from experts is its maximum polycount potential. What could we expect from 3DS at its prime, basically.
Paracelsus said:
* pixel performance: 800 Mpixel/s[7]
o 400 Mpixel/s @100 MHz[2]
o 1600 Mpixel/s @400 MHz
* vertex performance: 15.3 Mpolygon/s[7]
o 40Mtriangle/s @100 MHz[2]
o 160Mtriangle/s @400 MHz
From the Wikipedia. It was revealed by someone (I forget who) that the 3DS has a pixel performance of 1.4GPixels/sec, which is 1400 Mpixels/sec, so the clock speed might actually be closer to 400. Nintendo refuses to tell anyone, so we might never know.
In comparison (also from Wiki), this is the PS2's Emotion Engine:
# Perspective transformation: 66 million polygons per second
# With lighting and fog: 36 million polygons per second
# Bezier surface patches: 16 million polygons per second
# Image decompression: 150 million pixels per second
So depending on the clockspeed of the PICA200, 3DS can range from worse polygon performance to better poly performance compared to the PS2. Quite a big margin though.
It depends on so many things. Depends on the amount of shaders you wanna have going on, how many textures you wanna use, what fps are you aiming for, etc..Paracelsus said:
If you look at the Pokemon models on the Pokedex app, they are quite detailed, but their shaders are the simplest thing ever (only diffuse and glow maps, and the glow is probably done via vertex painting so not even that). But you can't compare that to say the coming Resident Evil title, where they got more stuff moving around, more complex shaders and multiple textures loading in and out, etc...
There's no Planet vs Zombies on the 3DS.The Lamonster said:
What there is, is a DS/DSiWare port of the retail release;; that might look slightly blurry upscaled to the slightly bigger res-screens of the 3DS; or small/sharp when selected by holding Select-to make DS games run at their native resolution.
Bluemercury
Member
StuBurns said:
What phone is it??i have a galaxy s2 and ive yet to see 3d games that well executed...
iPhone. Infinity Blade looks significantly better than anything on 3DS. Of course, it's a shit game, which is what actually matters. The 3DS is a better gaming device, but on a technical level, iPhone 4 is way better I think, and iPhone 5 is going to destroy that too.Bluemercury said:
sixteen-bit
Member
There was a playable demo, I thinkJWong said:
PdotMichael
Banned
The RE:R picture in OP are bullshot , I have played the gamescom demo and it's not looking like that.
Hugh Buelow
Member
Apple sells the iphone 4 for 550$ (for the 8GB model)... Imagine the meltdown if the 3DS sold for that much.
Yes there was, and it doesn't look anywhere near as nice as the shots in that OP._dementia said:
They mention a number of effects and such (such as the motion blur I mentioned earlier) that aren't present at all.
And? The Vita is being sold for $249 and and is more powerful than any phone on the market.
PdotMichael
Banned
Hugh Buelow said:
iPod touch 8gb (same hardware without mobile phone feature) is like 200/$
Fox_Mulder
Rockefellers. Skull and Bones. Microsoft. Al Qaeda. A Cabal of Bankers. The melting point of steel. What do these things have in common? Wake up sheeple, the landfill wasn't even REAL!
Mr. Wonderful said:
*
JWong said:
Infact...
PdotMichael
Banned
firelink said:
and?
Almost all 3d games for smartphones and tablets are not better looking than PSP games. Minibudgets are a bitch.
Rodney McKay
Member
I wasn't aware that MGS3 was a PS2 launch title. lolStuBurns said:
In fact, I seem to recall PS2 launch games looking pretty shitty for the most part.
Pachterballs
Banned
dark10x said:
as of today - the no.1 game on 3DS is a port/remake of a N64 title so... but you're right... its not up to scratch.
PdotMichael
Banned
Rodney McKay said:
Because PS2 was cutting edge technology, it was for all a totally new experiences. Nothing what you can say about the 3DS.
StuBurns said:
I dunno about that, but I heard Apple signed up to use the next generation SGX GPU.
The iPhone 5 will obviously probably not have visuals on par with the Vita (except for like 2 games, the iPhone 4 does not even compare to the 3DS, despite the better hardware). But if someone invested enough, it could be a beast of a machine.
Don't take this as me championing the idea btw. In fact - I hate it.
PdotMichael
Banned
Nintendo-4Life said:
yeah, maybe no Vita talk anymore
I'm not really convinced of that.firelink said:
The fact is, 98% of the games available for smart phones today look worse than your average PSP game. So, really, the 3DS isn't doing bad at all on that front. Those minuscule budgets really cut into the quality of the visuals.
More importantly, most smart phone games run at abysmal framerates. The DS plows through most of its games at 60 fps while a phone game with inferior visuals runs at 20 fps.
Obviously there are some brilliant exceptions to this (mostly on iPhone), but in general, smart phone games are not all that impressive to behold. The hardware IS capable (as Infinity Blade proves), but few developers ever take advantage of it. I suspect the Vita will be laying the smack down on smart phone visuals for years while I don't think the 3DS is really going to lag behind either.
The main issue with 3DS really IS its insanely low resolution screens. All of its games at a higher resolution would look so much nicer, but 400x240 is simply too low. At least the games all tend to run much better than your average phone title.