You can tell this just from the titles. The original Metroid was retconned in the remake.
0- Metroid: Zero Mission
1- Metroid Prime Trilogy
2- Metroid II
3- Super Metroid
4- Metroid: Fusion
-
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Nintendo shows updated Zelda-timeline in Japanese Newsletter, puts left part on sale
- Thread starter Garou
- Start date
You can tell this just from the titles. The original Metroid was retconned in the remake.
0- Metroid: Zero Mission
1- Metroid Prime Trilogy
2- Metroid II
3- Super Metroid
4- Metroid: Fusion
Jazzy Network
Member
I still don't get how a timeline where Link beats Ganon and Link loses to Ganon can exist at the same time.
Green Mamba
Member
They don't. It's essentially a "what if" alternate universe.
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
The time line was a mistake it's nothing but trash
why do I keep treating it like a thing
Yeah it follows the original timeline of Zelda 1-5 (counting LA) but is retconned so Link died in OoT before aLttP.
Zelda II was a direct sequel to Zelda I. aLttP was a prequel to Zelda I. LA was a direct sequel aLttP. OoT was originally meant as a direct prequel of aLttP.
After OoT with the child-adult endings, they made MM which was the first game in a new timeline after OoT. WW seemed to be in the adult timeline. Since then the adult timeline has broken into two.
Idk. I'm still with OoT as direct prequel to aLttP. IDC if the new timeline makes sense of things better, because I always imagined Zelda having ephemeral connections like, say, a legend.
I actually like that there are some advancements being made in that timeline. Gets me curious where things may go. It's also the least explored timeline but also feels like actual progress of time has passed over the 3 games.
Then in the others, like the decline timeline there is other progress being made in a different way like Hyrule's expansion (Zelda 2) and Link visiting other lands. The main games like with OoT, TP live in their own medieval bubble reliving things like groundhog day. Which makes sense, because that timeline is all reincarnation. MM being an outlier since it's like Alice in Wonderland.
Think of Star Trek and a bunch of its timelines from evil Picard, to dead Picard, main Picard, very old Picard, etc., etc.
It only exists because otherwise a bunch of the games would have nowhere to go.
leaving out Other M lol
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Makes you wonder what those other lands are doing in the other two timelines. Koholint excluded for obvious reasons.
Again, the fallen hero timeline doesn't really retcon anything. For OoT to be what it was originally intended to be would make OoT retcon ALttP. The fallen hero timeline undoes that retcon and restores ALttP's prologue. Neither of OoT's two endings match up with ALttP.
I would like to see future games set in the adult timeline. I wonder how people would react to a Zelda set in a New Hyrule that had advanced to the modern era. Or what about futuristic? You know, Miyamoto's original premise for Zelda was that it was a futuristic game and the pieces of the triforce were data chips. That's why the hero was named Link; like a datalink. Some of that still shines through. Like stuff having to do with the gods often involves robots and computers.
Dangansona
Member
I actually love the Zelda timeline. I think people wouldn't hate on it as much if games like four swords weren't included.
My only confusion on the Metroid timeline is really around the Aurora Units. Where did the Federation dig up the schematics and designs for what is effectively Chozo tech, ie. making their own Mother Brains.
I mean, ya, they are clearly cheap knock-offs without much the same intellect (and as such rebellious nature) as Mother Brain, to the point where the only evil Aurora Unit, 313, had to have its "loyalty" broken and corrupted by Dark Samus and Phaaze. But they're strikingly identical to the point where you'd think the Federation had a full schematic of Mother Brain.
And, frankly, if I had been Samus and saw those things I'd have "noped" right the fuck out. Though, saying all that now, I realize this makes Fusion's conclusion and Samus's rebellion against the Federation all the more logical as the Metroids were just another on a long list of shit they kept playing with when they should have known better.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
I mean Sheik being wrong doesn't necessarily mean they rewrote the rules, it just means Sheik was wrong.
No. Sheik was right. It was the Windfish that messed everything up. Think about it, Adult Link mysteriously vanishes...
Then washes up on a beach somewhere. Beats Ganon, then has to fend off Ganon's underlings trying to sacrifice him to free Ganon.
The Windfish misdirecting Link enabled the reappearance of the Hero in the failure timeline.
I read your post above (before I posted that). I'll just repeat the end of my post: IDC if the new timeline makes sense of things better, because I always imagined Zelda having ephemeral connections like, say, a legend.
Pretty much. I mean, if their going the "What if Ganon beats Link" route, there's like a million other variables that can create a million different timelines.
I wouldn't be against a modern or futuristic Zelda like you're in some cyberspace or whatever like the original concept. Ghost in the machine, ancient robots and new robots, computers.
I think Nintendo could nail an 80's sci-fi anime style just like they nailed the 1960's Toei Animation art style for Wind Waker.
I dunno. Back before Nintendo published Hyrule Historia a lot of people were extremely adamant that all of the games were self-contained retellings of a legend and that crazy fans had come up with the timeline even though the timeline comes from the fact that apart from a couple of games Nintendo has always said whether a game was a sequel or prequel and placed it in the timeline. People used to roll their eyes at the crazy split timeline theory even though the split timeline info came straight from Nintendo. It's something that some people go to great lengths to be ignorant about. Even after Hyrule Historia people think the timeline is just something Nintendo made up in 2011 to shut up fans rather than something they've built with each successive game.
That also means the Zelda cartoon is the furthest story in the series.
I wish Zelda was as easy to understand as the Donkey Kong timeline.
This is missing the great ape war!
http://www.mariowiki.com/Great_Ape_War#Great_Ape_War
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
My favorite part of this is how they just left The Imprisonment War in there. lolI wish Zelda was as easy to understand as the Donkey Kong timeline.
remember that the prime series wasn't made in japan, so they don't count whatever was introduced in there. you can see that pretty clearly in other m which blatantly contradicts stuff from it. they also probably didn't even bother checking for consistency since they never considered the prime series' stories to be a worthy addition to metroid canon
this is an issue with Nintendo's main development not giving enough control to outside devs. they seem to not accept any ideas from outside no matter how good they could be (that explains why none of the advancements made in prime were even considered for other m. they made that as if there were no 3D Metroid games prior to it)
short story: Nintendo japan treats prime as filler content.
DirgeExtinction
Member
Time travel is so odd in Zelda games.
Astral Dog
Member
the plot makes perfect sense i guess.
Astral Dog
Member
MC just happens to show the origin of the little hat.
remember when Link time traveled a fuck ton in Oracle of Ages and never broke the timeline
remember when Cia literally broke the timeline and explicitly acknowledged the existence of numerous heroes and eras of Hyrule and got shunted out of canon and onto a separate page of Zeldawiki
remember when ALttP's backstory just didn't match up with the decision to make all the timelines start with Ocarina of Time so silly stuff about game overs had to happen
it's still better than shoving your head up your ass and pretending that all the games are disconnected when shit like Link seeing the sages from Ocarina in Wind Waker and Link reading about the events of ALttP in ALBW happens
remember when Cia literally broke the timeline and explicitly acknowledged the existence of numerous heroes and eras of Hyrule and got shunted out of canon and onto a separate page of Zeldawiki
remember when ALttP's backstory just didn't match up with the decision to make all the timelines start with Ocarina of Time so silly stuff about game overs had to happen
it's still better than shoving your head up your ass and pretending that all the games are disconnected when shit like Link seeing the sages from Ocarina in Wind Waker and Link reading about the events of ALttP in ALBW happens
The "origin of the hat" thing was always stupid. OoT already gave an origin for the hat. Link wore it because it was Kokiri clothes. None of the heroes after MC Link wear the hat because of a tradition set forth by MC Link. Link wears the hat in Wind Waker because his island traditionally makes boys wear the Hero of Time's garb. Link wears the hat in Spirit Tracks because the uniforms of the knights of New Hyrule are based on what the Hero of Winds wore. Link wears the hat in Twilight Princess because the light spirits literally stole the clothes from the Hero of Time's rotting corpse.
And then Skyward Sword came in and Link has a hat because that's his knight uniform.
Personally the only change I would make to the timeline if I could would be to take all 3 of the Four Swords games off and put them in their own branch. They don't really mess anything up being where Nintendo put them, they're just the only games in the timeline that can go anywhere because they don't have the connections the other games do.
Could be. There's a lot of speculation around it since it does use the wolf amiibo too.
I remember when timeline debates were all the rage and I always questioned the split timeline theory. I'd ask what's stopping them from silting it even more beyond the two people kept talking about.
Turns out I was right all along.
Also the Hero of Time is a loser. Thank goodness for the Hero of Greatness from aLttP who came along and cleaned up the mess left behind by his predecessor.
Turns out I was right all along.
Also the Hero of Time is a loser. Thank goodness for the Hero of Greatness from aLttP who came along and cleaned up the mess left behind by his predecessor.
Well, Zelda U's map resembles OoT even more closely than TP's map did, Lake Hylia features a bridge over it like the Great Bridge of Hylia in TP, and the Wolf Link amiibo is compatible with it.
Also, when Majora's Mask 3D was being released they had the Happy Mask Salesman post a Q&A on Miiverse and at the end he said this:
“My, my… I’ve certainly been appearing all over the place these past few days! If this keeps going, maybe it wouldn’t be a stretch to expect me to pop up in a new Zelda game, too…? Ho, ho, ho… I’ve got some new masks, too, if you’d like to try them on… If I do make an appearance, I’m sure everyone will experience such happiness! Believe in your strengths… Believe… Ho, ho, ho…”
I would not be surprised if Zelda U is the new game in question. After all, part of the reason they delayed Zelda U was to incorporate ideas they had come up with while working on Majora's Mask 3D. And the best place for a game involving the Happy Mask Salesman would be around OoT. Before or after TP would work. I imagine amiibos will unlock masks in the game.
Well, if you were questioning whether or not it was a good idea you're of course entitled to your opinion. If you were questioning the existence of the split as most people who argued against the timeline back then did... well, that's never actually been a question. OoT always had the two endings and the idea of the split originated from Aonuma and Miyamoto literally saying that OoT had 2 endings that created a split timeline.
It's a work of fiction. They can add as many splits as they want. It's not a historical documentary.
At least that would have made more sense than "this is the Game Over timeline." Technically, your idea of a timeline in which Link leaves to get the Silver Gauntlets without stopping Ganondorf would be the only timeline in which Link fails — he succeeds at defeating Ganon in the "child" and "adult" timelines. So that would fall right in line with what Nintendo wants the timeline to spawn from: A failure to defeat Ganondorf.
So the three timeline splits, from left to right, would be: "Adult — left before defeating Ganon to retrieve the Silver Gauntlets," "Child — returned from the future to warn Zelda about Ganondorf, resulting in Ganondorf's defeat before his plans come to fruition," and "Adult — left after defeating Ganondorf to live life as a child again."
I think that would make a lot of people feel better about this whole thing.
The problem is that in order for ALttP to follow OoT the Hero of Time HAS to be defeated so that Ganon can get the complete triforce.
CrispyBoar
Banned
And besides, I highly doubt that Nintendo would want any of their biggest heroes like Link to die to a villain.
I wouldn't either.
You take that back, nao!
It would make sense, because Aonuma loves to tease us with details like that for future games. I still remember his quote years ago, where he said something along the lines of "We had a Link that could sail, now one that rides a train... maybe he'll fly through the sky next?" Which was an awesome dig at the then-unannounced Skyward Sword.
So I could totally see Happy Mask Salesman make a return in Zelda U.
"Link loses" was a well established fan theory even just a few years after OoT came out to explain some of the games. It makes sense, but the prevailing opinion was that Nintendo would never make a game where Link loses due to backlash. So it's been relegated to text.
Ocarina of Time also canonizes alternate timelines.
So, it works.
But it's true. The way that OoT set things up the only way anyone could get the complete triforce after it split is to find the other 2 people with triforces and beat them up. The triforce doesn't reconstitute itself when the triforce bearers die. The pieces pass to the next worthy bearer or stay split somewhere until someone collects them. Hell, Wind Waker Link got defeated so that Ganon could get his hands on the complete triforce. If you want to come up with a better explanation for the ALttP timeline you have to explain how Ganon got the complete triforce. Nintendo kinda painted themselves into a corner.
Tbh I really don't like it being three. Failed OoT is just strange especially as 'successful OoT' is followed by a failure in between it and it's sequel. Also, it makes the story between OoT and TP and that between OoT and aLttP rather similar. Sages end up doing what Link didn't. Also, the two time line setup flows directly from the last moments of OoT. Introducing a third, 'failed OoT' just is aesthetically unpleasing to me and then it being the 'main branch' of the series...really don't like that.
I can understand why when they formalized the timeline it morphed into three instead of two as they tidied up the connections between the games and as the WW storyline got bigger (it is a bit weird fitting that all into the OoT-aLttP timeline). IDK. Maybe the time line even became 3 during WW development. But it clearly was two at the time of MM.
In any case, the series is not so strongly connected as to leave no room for divergent interpretations. It'll be a loss to the series if it ever gets too obsessed with its 'history' anyway imo. As I said above, a hint of a connection and some troubles with said connection do legend justice. I hope we keep getting sequels that don't quite fit and that reinterpret that which they do reference from past games. I think we will.
You know, that's a good question. When did it become 3?
Before release and for a while after release Nintendo said that OoT told the same story as ALttP's prologue. We can ascertain that Nintendo changed their minds on this some time before 2004 since the initial plan for Four Sword Adventure was pretty much for it to replace OoT as ALttP's Imprisoning War. So likely even during Wind Waker development.
Since they didn't go through with that idea and they pretty much stopped dealing with the ALttP branch altogether, I think the original plan was to just quietly sweep the pre-OoT games under the rug. Some time between 2004 and 2011 someone came up with the fallen hero idea which made everything fit together and they went ahead with that.
Osukaa
Member
As I said in my post, I was simply questioning what was stopping them from going beyond two splits.
TheUntamedLegend
Member
With Twilight Princess.
The idea that the Zelda timeline was some unknowable mystery prior to the release of Hyrule Historia is just inaccurate. The games fit together just fine with no branches until the release of The Wind Waker, at which point it was explained that the timeline branched at Ocarina of Time and TWW was part of the "Adult timeline", while the older Zeldas continued from the "Child timeline". This gave them more freedom with Wind Waker's story, they could (and did) destroy Hyrule without worrying about why it exists in A Link to the Past.
But then they made Twilight Princess, which again was a sequel to Ocarina of Time, but following the "Child timeline" (after Link returns to the past). The inconsistencies between Twilight Princess and A Link To the Past necessitated the creation of the third timeline. It was either that or just disregard all older Zelda titles.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=194360244&postcount=217
But it seems like they made the decision before Twilight Princess, possibly during Wind Waker.
Wind Waker pretty much sealed the deal. If ALttP was going to happen in one of the two timelines it had to be the adult timeline because the point of OoT in relation to ALttP was that it was the Imprisoning War. In the child timeline OoT essentially doesn't even happen. Link gets sent back in time and thwarts Ganon before he can even attack the castle.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
The real question is: is Link's Uncle or LttP Link related to the Hero of Time?
Ryouji Gunblade
Member
I wouldn't say any more than than the people of Outset or Ordon. Twilight Princess, LttP, and Wind Waker have different takes on how "hidden skills" are passed on, and they can have non-hero characters learn them.