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[Neff]

Nintendo really needs help getting people excited for Mario. Especially from those who are into M64.

Super Mario 64 is my #2 game of all time but I'm x100 more interested in and excited about Odyssey than I was about SM64O.

 

[MUnited83]

There is a crazy amount of irony in this post. Seriously do some research on what you're talking about before insulting other over it because most of what I've heard from people with knowledge in this field of law definitely believe Nintendo is entirely in their legal right to do what they did.

It's fine to disagree with what they're doing but don't start talking out of your ass if you don't want to seem like one.

The post you quoted was replying to a guy talking about emulation, what in the fuck does the "field of law" have anything to do with it?

"If sonic mania exists, then why is there copyright law?" - Legal Philosophers ITT

Some companies are nothing more than assholes abusing copyright law, others aren't.

It's fun how a while back we had a mod who was part of the game's development talk about how this exact line of thinking is incredibly reductive of Whitehead's own efforts on a professional level along with dozens of others just so people can say lol SEGA lets fans do games and look what happens.

And we still got people doing it.

Fucking idiotic.

You mean the effort that got him a cease and desist order before SEGA got sane?
Yeah man you sure know how pick your examples.

Nintendo knows these fan projects steal market share. Every minute they play these free versions, they aren't playing new Switch and 3DS exclusives.

This kind of shit is why I don't buy Nintendo stuff anymore. No use being a fan of someone that looks a the fans and waves middle fingers all day round.

 

[Chezzymann]

It's fun how a while back we had a mod who was part of the game's development talk about how this exact line of thinking is incredibly reductive of Whitehead's own efforts on a professional level along with dozens of others just so people can say lol SEGA lets fans do games and look what happens.

And we still got people doing it.

Fucking idiotic.

I read that post and agree with it, I was just saying that Nintendo's relation with the fan community is a far cry from segas and Sega is far more laid back about people using their IPs. I know Christian whitehead was far more than just fan gamers making rom hacks.

Thanks for calling me an idiot though.

 

[SuperCambot]

Nintendo knows these fan projects steal market share. Every minute they play these free versions, they aren't playing new Switch and 3DS exclusives.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

If youre going to use another person's IP and want to not get taken down do NOT ask for money! That's how AM2R did it and survived until release. I assure you had those guys asked for money Nintendo would've come down on them fast.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Nintendo knows these fan projects steal market share. Every minute they play these free versions, they aren't playing new Switch and 3DS exclusives.

If that was it they would've shut down AM2R before release which they didn't. The deal breaker appears to be when these fan projects start to make money off of the stolen IP.

 

[David___]

If youre going to use another person's IP and want to not get taken down do NOT ask for money! That's how AM2R did it and survived until release. I assure you had those guys asked for money Nintendo would've come down on them fast.

Having a Patreon isnt asking for money.

 

[Team Filler]

Having a Patreon isnt asking for money.

How so?

 

[Cipherr]

The dude set up a Patreon so he could essentially make money off of Super Mario 64?!

Quelle fucking surprise it got taken down.

We are getting old man. This new generation feels like this sort of thing should be totally okay. I feel like a goddamned grey bearded man when discussing this stuff. The pure failure of even general logic behind it is crazy.

"But it may bring more attention to your brand!"

Irrelevant.... You don't become legally allowed to use someone else's IP (Profit or not profit) just because you assume it will have a positive effect on their brand. That's not how any of this works.... Like at all.

If youre going to use another person's IP and want to not get taken down do NOT ask for money!

This may improve your chances of flying under the radar; or in the cases of some development studios (everyone decides this on their own) it may create a situation where they decide not to pursue you legally. But it doesn't give you the right to that IP just because you aren't profiting. It could bring you zero profit and you can still be infringing. The real answer is to "Not use another person's IP unless you have permission or are completely comfortable with what can result from it."

These days you may as well try your hand at your own I.P. The indie scene has never been hotter, and the vast majority of traditional game publishers are strict as fuck about their I.P. Theres like... I think Sega, and Valve and Maybe one or two others that won't kill you, the other 200 or so will nuke your ass. Nintendo being the most extreme.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Having a Patreon isnt asking for money.

I'm sorry. I must've missed the Patreon where you donate flowers and restaurant menus.

 

[LordKasual]

It's fun how a while back we had a mod who was part of the game's development talk about how this exact line of thinking is incredibly reductive of Whitehead's own efforts on a professional level along with dozens of others just so people can say lol SEGA lets fans do games and look what happens.

And we still got people doing it.

Fucking idiotic.

the Sonic Fangaming community quite literally reverse-engineered the classic Sonic games. I don't think any notable members of the community had any (real) delusions that they were outperforming SEGA with their projects, but around the time the games started resembling actual Sonic titles, SEGA at any point could have dropped the hammer and discouraged all of it.

now I will extend a branch and say that I can't recall anyone ever attempting to literally recreate older Sonic titles (outside of Sonic 2 HD anyway), similar to the recent AM2R or Pokemon fan project that met their demise by the hands of Nintendo.

Whether that's because Sega was more forgiving, or just lazy, or because nearly all of those Sonic fan projects eventually died off on their own accord, is anyone's guess.


but my point is, Nintendo is adamant about weeding out shit like this, they clearly think more of their "market share" (or whatever excuse gets passed around) far more than the passion of their fans

 

[Kyzer]

The post you quoted was replying to a guy talking about emulation, what in the fuck does the "field of law" have anything to do with it?

Some companies are nothing more than assholes abusing copyright law, others aren't.


You mean the effort that got him a cease and desist order before SEGA got sane?
Yeah man you sure know how pick your examples.

This kind of shit is why I don't buy Nintendo stuff anymore. No use being a fan of someone that looks a the fans and waves middle fingers all day round.

If taking down copyright infringements make them assholes then yes and I guess in your eyes most companies are just assholes. Not all fans infringe copyrights, I think you are using a term for a category that is much broader than the people Nintendo are "waving their middle finger" (taking down illegal copyright infringement of their property) at. I think you mean to say you dont buy Nintendo stuff because you they take down copyright infringements, not because they are somehow waving middle fingers at their fans by not letting them use their IPs for free lol

 

[Alex_Mexico]

This may improve your chances of flying under the radar; or in the cases of some development studios (everyone decides this on their own) it may create a situation where they decide not to pursue you legally. But it doesn't give you the right to that IP just because you aren't profiting. It could bring you zero profit and you can still be infringing. The real answer is to "Not use another person's IP unless you have permission or are completely comfortable with what can result from it."

Oh of course! I didnt mean that if you didnt ask for money you weren't infringing (because you are!), just that chances of Nintendo either not noticing or looking the other way are greater than if you charge money or ask for donations when working with said stolen IP. There is a reason why the years in gestation AM2R (it took like 7 years to complete) was able to launch and SM64Online never stood a chance.

 

[rodrigolfp]

I'm 101 % sure that those who hear about a online mod of Super Mario 64, don't need marketing to tell them that Mario 64 exists.

and i am 101% sure that those who still do not have the game have 1 more reason to buy it and play, after, rip the cartridge and play with the mod

 

[Scipio]

It doesn't matter if he's asking money or not. He's clearly infringing the intellectual property of Nintendo here. Nintendo has full authority over this, and they are absolutely right. You don't want an individual third party possibly cheapen one of your most valuable assets; this would be unexplicable on the business side of things.

Taking down the videos and patreon shouldn't surprise anyone and Nintendo is 100% in the right.

 

[WestEgg]

and i am 101% sure that those who still do not have the game have 1 more reason to buy it and play, after, rip the cartridge and play with the mod

??

They aren't still making cartridges of Mario 64, there is no way this increases the sales of a 21 year old game.

 

[NeonBlack]

This kind of shit is why I don't buy Nintendo stuff anymore. No use being a fan of someone that looks a the fans and waves middle fingers all day round.

I have a hard time believing you don't buy Nintendo stuff because they don't support fan made games.

His mod is still up. He just can't make money from it.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

now I will extend a branch and say that I can't recall anyone ever attempting to literally recreate older Sonic titles (outside of Sonic 2 HD anyway), similar to the recent AM2R or Pokemon fan project that met their demise by the hands of Nintendo.

Whether that's because Sega was more forgiving, or just lazy, or because nearly all of those Sonic fan projects eventually died off on their own accord, is anyone's guess.


but my point is, Nintendo is adamant about weeding out shit like this, they clearly think more of their "market share" (or whatever excuse gets passed around) far more than the passion of their fans

I can understand all of that, sure. Would you agree that the timing of these more notable projects gaining traction when Nintendo is either developing a game of similar structure (Samus Returns) or has a major tent pole release in the very near future (Sun and Moon, Odyssey) is also probably what got them targeted?

 

[TheTux]

Nah, he was making money of his own mod, with code that is ,100% his. This wouldn't stand in court but people don't want to challenge them.

Which is entirely his right. He owns the code of the mod. There is no Nintendo code on the mod.

Copyright doesn't only apply to code.

 

[BGBW]

Nintendo hates their fans.

It's true. Reggie sends me rude emails everyday.

 

[David___]

How so?

I'm sorry. I must've missed the Patreon where you donate flowers and restaurant menus.

Let me rephrase that statement since I was on mobile and was in a hurry.

Having a Patreon page doesn't mean you're looking to make money on anyone thing you do, especially when you don't put an exclusive link behind being a patreon contributor. If people want to donate to you then they can.

 

[Snakeyes]

Aside from Sega (who are probably okay with some Sonic fan-made content because they have no clue what to do with the IP anyway), are there any major examples of a Japanese company letting people profit off their IPs through unauthorized fan games?

 

[Alex_Mexico]

??

They aren't still making cartridges of Mario 64, there is no way this increases the sales of a 21 year old game.

You do know Nintendo still sells Super Mario 64 on the Wii and WiiU virtual console right? They are still making money off of SM64.

 

[AlexFlame116]

I'm not a lawyer nor am I an expert in copyright stuff but aren't the characters themselves owned by Nintendo which would also fall under copyright law? If someone is using characters like Mario and Peach and is getting money (okay, donations but it's still money), aren't they susceptible to a cease and desist?

 

[Tripon]

Having a Patreon isnt asking for money.

The entire goal of paetron is asking for money.

 

[IrishNinja]

"Expected", yes, but what a unnecessary draconian measure for what is a niche and harmless mod of an old game. Hope he'll continue to make his mods, dude is incredibly talented

co-signed

 

[MrBadger]

It's fun how a while back we had a mod who was part of the game's development talk about how this exact line of thinking is incredibly reductive of Whitehead's own efforts on a professional level along with dozens of others just so people can say lol SEGA lets fans do games and look what happens.

And we still got people doing it.

Fucking idiotic.

Yeah, the Sonic Mania comparisons every time something like this happens are annoying. People make it sound like Sega saw a bunch of Sonic fan mods and hired them on the spot, completely ignoring the years of mobile ports Stealth and Taxman did under Sega, and the numerous other commercial products the rest of the team put out.

It sucks, but it's Nintendo's IP and the team were profiting off it. Hardly unexpected really.

 

[Oersted]

and i am 101% sure that those who still do not have the game have 1 more reason to buy it and play, after, rip the cartridge and play with the mod

Is this some trolling of those who say its free marketing?

 

[BassForever]

Let me rephrase that statement since I was on mobile and was in a hurry.

Having a Patreon page doesn't mean you're looking to make money on anyone thing you do, especially when you don't put an exclusive link behind being a patreon contributor. If people want to donate to you then they can.

Except patreon isn't about one time donations, it's about helping to fund content on a monthly basis. You set up a patreon because you think you're providing regular content people might want to help fund which you can potentially profit off it. If the dude only wanted donations he'd set up a pay pal link.

 

[Muffin1611]

Except patreon isn't about one time donations, it's about helping to fund content on a monthly basis. You set up a patreon because you think you're providing regular content people might want to help fund which you can potentially profit off it. If the dude only wanted donations he'd set up a pay pal link.

That still doesn't explicitly link your Patreon to your projects. Asking for money to get access to that project and simply giving access for free and getting donations per Patreon just to support you are two different cases. The latter doesn't link Patreon and content.

 

[koss424]

the Sonic Fangaming community quite literally reverse-engineered the classic Sonic games. I don't think any notable members of the community had any (real) delusions that they were outperforming SEGA with their projects, but around the time the games started resembling actual Sonic titles, SEGA at any point could have dropped the hammer and discouraged all of it.

now I will extend a branch and say that I can't recall anyone ever attempting to literally recreate older Sonic titles (outside of Sonic 2 HD anyway), similar to the recent AM2R or Pokemon fan project that met their demise by the hands of Nintendo.

Whether that's because Sega was more forgiving, or just lazy, or because nearly all of those Sonic fan projects eventually died off on their own accord, is anyone's guess.


but my point is, Nintendo is adamant about weeding out shit like this, they clearly think more of their "market share" (or whatever excuse gets passed around) far more than the passion of their fans

If you are making money off of a project using Nintendo's IP are you a fan or a competitor?

 

[Wamb0wneD]

The post you quoted was replying to a guy talking about emulation, what in the fuck does the "field of law" have anything to do with it?

You still didn't explain where I'm spouting bullshit, and you still ignore everyone who posts that screenshot and asks you how the hell that's not Nintendo's IP.

 

[theaffection]

So you believe that companies should lose the right to control their creative/intellectual properties once they're a certain size? People steal Olly Moss' artwork for Firewatch and we'll burn them at the stake so at what point does it become acceptable for people to use other people's work and property for whatever they'd like?

It becomes acceptable when you're a behemoth like Nintendo and you have a hobbyist making a mod for your 20 year old game dude. This mod won't have too big of reach because most people won't want to mess around with emulators

It doesn't matter if they aren't losing money off of it, other people are making money off of it by using their IP and branding to promote the project and receive revenue via patreon donations. As the IP holder, if Nintendo doesn't take action, they lose the ability to challenge future infringements. Given the Mario is likely one of the most valueable IPs on the planet, they aren't going to let this happen.

Yeah as a business protect your stuff, but when you see Sega giving Sonic fan games a pass and Valve cosigning Black Mesa Source, etc. You gotta wonder if its really that big a deal 🤔

 

[Platy]

The metroid 2 remake was shot down because they were making a metroid 2 remake ...

does that means that they are making a remake of mario 64 ? =O

 

[malboroking]

It's their IP. You can't make money using someone else's creation. That's not how it works

You're right, I'll just head to the Nintendo store and buy the online mod for Mario 64. Oh wait, it doesn't exist because they didn't make it. The guy isn't distributing anything that Nintendo owns. People really like to go to bat for multi-billion dollar corporations here. God knows Nintendo's bottom line was really being hurt by a multiplayer mod for a 21 year old game.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

You're right, I'll just head to the Nintendo store and buy the online mod for Mario 64. Oh wait, it doesn't exist because they didn't make it. The guy isn't distributing anything that Nintendo owns. People really like to go to bat for multi-billion dollar corporations here. God knows Nintendo's bottom line was really being hurt by a multiplayer mod for a 21 year old game.

They used their IP. It's not that hard.

 

[Not]

Good decision. This may have generated interest around their IPs and make people excited.

Nintendo needs the help

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

Good decision. This may have generated interest around their IPs and make people excited.

Damn you got a lot of people on this. Well done.

 

[Bulzeeb]

well he could continue with his mod by making a texture swap and calling it Supah Ramiro 64 online but I guess this wont make people interested on it to donate money so why boter.

 

[Trickster]

Then don't buy their products if it does bother you. They have the right to control their creations regardless of how old-fashioned their attitude is. No one has an issue with smaller companies or creatives exercising that right, only large corporations. It's so bewildering.

The precedent of people being able to promote, profit or create whatever using anyone's IP's would be far worse for the industry.

Ah the good old "if you don't like it then just don't buy it!" reply to stifle criticism.

Just to humor you, I don't buy their products, in part because of how backwards their approach to many things are which make them unappealing to me.

It's just a fact that Nintendo is notorious for how aggresively they go after this stuff, whether it's this example, or youtube content, or tumblr content (it it's nsfw, so what), or even trying to shut down a freaking smash tournament a few years back.

Yes they might be in the right legally on this one, but most of the time they just abuse their position to go after individuals who are just fans of Nintendo games and make either nothing or fucking pennies. but yeah you're right, just don't buy it if you don't like it

 

[Wireframe]

Anyone who said this wouldn't happen were fooling themselves.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

Ah the good old "if you don't like it then just don't buy it!" reply to stifle criticism.

How is it stifling criticism? I'm saying that if you sincerely don't like their practices or the way they treat their community then remove yourself from that situation.

I'm not sure what else there is to discuss. They removed the money-stream and promotional videos but left the mod. I feel that's entirely within their rights to do and if you're developing a mod that you're accepting donations for and promoting it using Nintendo IP's then you should have enough awareness to realise this was always likely to happen.

It becomes acceptable when you're a behemoth like Nintendo and you have a hobbyist making a mod for your 20 year old game dude. This mod won't have too big of reach because most people won't want to mess around with emulators

So you think that once a company becomes large enough and an IP is over a certain age they lose their rights to control it. You have to speak in broad terms because that's the implication it would have. Personally I feel that if you create something then that creation is yours to do with as you wish, including allowing (or not allowing) people to profit from it or use it to promote their own work, regardless of how successful you become.

 

[orava]

It doesn't matter if he's asking money or not. He's clearly infringing the intellectual property of Nintendo here. Nintendo has full authority over this, and they are absolutely right. You don't want an individual third party possibly cheapen one of your most valuable assets; this would be unexplicable on the business side of things.

Taking down the videos and patreon shouldn't surprise anyone and Nintendo is 100% in the right.

This all would be really easy to fix. Just name the sofware something more generic and don't include any assets that might cause trouble. That's just couple small 3d models, textures and sounds. Add option to inject those things separately but don't distribute them.

The software itself does not include the game rom. It's basically a addon for a emulator. The patreon page was already up long before this and he had made multiple romhacks. All of it is freely downloadable, supporter or not.

I hope this will end well and he can continue his amazing work and get his patreon back up again.

 

[Orniletter]

I read that post and agree with it, I was just saying that Nintendo's relation with the fan community is a far cry from segas and Sega is far more laid back about people using their IPs. I know Christian whitehead was far more than just fan gamers making rom hacks.

Thanks for calling me an idiot though.

This is total bollocks. """Progressive""" SEGA indeed.

SEGA can be incredibly aggressive as well, it's not just sunshine and rainbows over there because they hired Christian Whitehead.

 

[fabricated backlash]

Having a Patreon isnt asking for money.

That is the literal definition of a Patron. Giving money to someone you think has potential and get some compensation in form of entertainment or wares.

 

[goldenpp72]

well for one Nintendo could have not been little bumpy penis tips and left it alone

If SEGA was as anal as Nintendo about how the fans have been using their material, we never would have gotten Sonic Mania

Remember Streets of Rage remake? So progressive.

 

[BanjoLayleeYookaKazooie]

Damn you got a lot of people on this. Well done.

TBF going off of that user's history of posts here they're not being sarcastic or trolling. They're one of 'those' Nintendo fans who take everything the company does personally and anything but sunshine, (not the game) rainbows and fun that Nintendo does is a sacrilege and an affront to their entire fan base and everything the company stands for.

There's lots of them ITT, and as usual they post before they think a lot of the time and this particular post was impressive in its complete misunderstanding if the situation to get a cheap dig in.

 

[AzaK]

The dude set up a Patreon so he could essentially make money off of Super Mario 64?!

Quelle fucking surprise it got taken down.

Wasn't he making money off modding Super Mario 64? As in, a game people had to buy to use his mod anyway? Or do you think Nintendo were going to mod it themselves and so didn't want competition.....

 

[Spacejaws]

I’m fucking confused everybody saying he is making money off of someone else’s IP are you in support of Lets Plays, game ‘reviews’ that show large segements of games and Twitch streams?

They are all making money off of someone else’s IP and I’d estimate putting in a fraction of the work (not saying it’s not work but this guy seems to be heavily invested in breaking apart Mario 64).

It’s not like the guy is repackaging Mario 64 and selling it back he’s modding the game.

 

[massoluk]

Good decision. This may have generated interest around their IPs and make people excited.

Because hardly anyone know who is Mario