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[Gamer79]

So most know the story about how the nes was super successful, followed by the success of the snes, then with the n64 came around Nintendo got a kick back into reality. I understand being a cut throat company but Nintendo was super aggressive back in the day. A few things I learned.

-Charged higher rates to develop on their system. Developers payed Nintendo much higher fees/percentages than Atari and Sega back in the day.
-Nintendo would regulate what kind of chip you can use on your game. Cartridges have chips in them to improve performance beyond than what the base console can do. Nintendo would let more powerful Rom chips in Japan vs the United States. Companies had to tone down their games here graphically
-Restrict how many games per year one company is allowed to release on their system.
- Had a deal to partner with Sony to create a joint machine. They later pulled out of that deal to pair with panasonic for some weird reason. They shot themselves in the foot and created their biggest competitor.

A bunch of other stuff. I was an original N64 owner and remember being bored with it because there were long periods of droughts where there was just not any good games to play. Most of the other developers jumped ship to Sony/Sega not only because Nintendo went the cartridge format again but also they were super controlling.

 

[Wildebeest]

The wisdom of the time was that Atari crashed because they lost control of third party developers and the market was oversaturated with low quality games. When PS1 came around, it was flooded with shovelware, but there were also enough high quality games that it didn't seem to matter.

 

[semiconscious]

um, that's 'extent'...

 

[SmokedMeat]

Nintendo were dicks back then. Actually they still are.

 

[cash_longfellow]

“I never knew to what extinct”….
All the way.

 

[Captain Toad]

It's the reason Nintendo is no longer synonymous with videogames and why PlayStation is a thing.

 

[MarkMe2525]

This is exactly why we shouldn't hope for any one company to have a stranglehold on the gaming market. Many of us veterans know how Nintendo used to role, but for those who are not old enough or did not follow the industry, healthy competition is a necessity for continued innovation and price suppression.

 

[Trunx81]

At least it brought us ULTRA GAMES. Nice trick by Konami to go around Nintendos restrictions.

They were, and still are to some extinct (), really strict, but seeing Atari fail due to shovelware helped big back in the day. It was also one of the reasons we got the 3DO

 

[nial]

This is exactly why we shouldn't hope for any one company to have a stranglehold on the gaming market. Many of us veterans know how Nintendo used to role, but for those who are not old enough or did not follow the industry, healthy competition is a necessity for continued innovation and price suppression.

thankfully we have the big two doing amazing

 

[jufonuk]

This is exactly why we shouldn't hope for any one company to have a stranglehold on the gaming market. Many of us veterans know how Nintendo used to role, but for those who are not old enough or did not follow the industry, healthy competition is a necessity for continued innovation and price suppression.

When sega came onto the scene. That’s when the creativity went through the roof between Nintendo and sega everyone stepped up their game so to speak. Once sega folded. Well I feel Sony and MS make big budget AAA games which have some safeness to them and the indies go old school nuts to get experimental games out and Nintendo so from either sequels and remasters to things like ToTK. They are kind of doing it themselves but it sega were still around the wealth of insane game would be something

 

[LakeOf9]

This is why I hated Nintendo and avoided them until the Switch

I still think they’re a trash company but man they make amazing games

 

[cartman414]

So most know the story about how the nes was super successful, followed by the success of the snes, then with the n64 came around Nintendo got a kick back into reality. I understand being a cut throat company but Nintendo was super aggressive back in the day. A few things I learned.

-Charged higher rates to develop on their system. Developers payed Nintendo much higher fees/percentages than Atari and Sega back in the day.
-Nintendo would regulate what kind of chip you can use on your game. Cartridges have chips in them to improve performance beyond than what the base console can do. Nintendo would let more powerful Rom chips in Japan vs the United States. Companies had to tone down their games here graphically
-Restrict how many games per year one company is allowed to release on their system.
- Had a deal to partner with Sony to create a joint machine. They later pulled out of that deal to pair with panasonic for some weird reason. They shot themselves in the foot and created their biggest competitor.

A bunch of other stuff. I was an original N64 owner and remember being bored with it because there were long periods of droughts where there was just not any good games to play. Most of the other developers jumped ship to Sony/Sega not only because Nintendo went the cartridge format again but also they were super controlling.

Ken Kutaragi pressured them into it when they didn't believe it could work out for gaming because of load times, convincing Nintendo they intended to use it for everything but games. A month later, Sony created Sony Imagesoft for the sake of developing games. Nintendo committed the grave error of not putting it in writing that Sony could only get royalties from non-game media. By the time they realized this, it was too late.

The Weird History Of The Super NES CD-ROM, Nintendo's Most Notorious Vaporware

Nintendo never released a CD-ROM gaming system. But for a while in the early 1990s, it flirted with the idea. That protracted will-they-won’t-they romance produced pages of breathless gossip columns in video game magazines, a mountain of vaporware, some terrible Zelda games, and one priceless...

kotaku.com

Also, Sony already had plans on the new media, the Super CD, being used for other media, and released an e-book reader, the Data Discman, for that purpose. The SNES CD Rom prototype was found to be compatible with them.

Blast from the Past: Sony Data Discman DD-S35 - The Digital Reader

Here’s another nugget of ereader history that you might find interesting. If you know anything about the history of ebook readers, then you probably know that Sony have been in this industry for quite some time. The released the first Sony reader, the PRS-500, in 2006. And before that they also...

the-digital-reader.com

SuperDisc/SNES-CD and the Sony Data Discman - nesdev.org

Hardly the first time, or last, that Sony banked on creating, and hopefully standardizing, a new media format for royalties. What was new within the recent couple of years was their expansion into full on entertainment, having just acquired Columbia Pictures and CBS Records.

 

[MarkMe2525]

thankfully we have the big two doing amazing

Nintendo and Sony in large parts serve different markets. There of course is overlap, but we are all served better when there are multiple companies competing to have a high performance box hooked to our TV's. "This is the way"

 

[drotahorror]

Dude fuckin died mid topic title

 

[ZoukGalaxy]

 

[GigaBowser]

Nintendo used to have Yakuza ties my friends what do yous expects?

 

[FalsettoVibe]

Nintendo was a bit of a jerk back in the day for sure.

 

[ThaGuy]

Just think, Sony could've had Nintendo's ip for their games and I think that's when Nintendo's lawyers really kicked into high gear lol.

 

[cartman414]

Just think, Sony could've had Nintendo's ip for their games and I think that's when Nintendo's lawyers really kicked into high gear lol.

Yep. Nintendo were bad dudes, but Sony was Daniel Plainview at that time. Too bad for them Nintendo was no Eli, ha.

 

[Neff]

All of this is well-known. The most egregious example was telling retailers 'If you stock Sega stuff, you won't get our stuff'. Howard Lincoln didn't fuck around.

It's the reason Nintendo is no longer synonymous with videogames and why PlayStation is a thing.

Exactly. As soon as something better came along, lots of publishers left Nintendo in droves and never looked back. Can't say I blame them. Sony went out of their way to offer a better deal (and it was a significantly better deal) and justly reaped the rewards.

 

[dave_d]

All of this is well-known. The most egregious example was telling retailers 'If you stock Sega stuff, you won't get our stuff'. Howard Lincoln didn't fuck around.



Exactly. As soon as something better came along, lots of publishers left Nintendo in droves and never looked back. Can't say I blame them. Sony went out of their way to offer a better deal (and it was a significantly better deal) and justly reaped the rewards.

We can't forget how Nintendo screwed Capcom over Super SF2. Capcom kind of expected Nintendo owed them one for SF2 on the SNES in 92 but Nintendo didn't see it that way.

 

[Neff]

We can't forget how Nintendo screwed Capcom over Super SF2. Capcom kind of expected Nintendo owed them one for SF2 on the SNES in 92 but Nintendo didn't see it that way.

That's actually the first I've heard about that but yeah it can't be understated how important SFII was to the SNES. It was already on fire (at least in the US) thanks to Mario, Zelda and whatnot, but SFII made it the console every kid wanted to play with their friends, the FOMO was palpable.

 

[nush]

A bunch of other stuff.

I used to manage phsyical production of games for a big publisher back in the day. Also on Nintendo specifically N64 and GameBoy Color. They nickle and dimed all the way. If you wanted to print manuals an boxes you had to use Nintendo's approved printer, if you want to get your games shipped from japan you had to use Nintendo's approved shipper. It didn't matter if you had cheaper printer or shipping options you had to use the Nintendo approved ones. The ones Nintendo owned or partially owned...

 

[Kataploom]

For better or for worse, those rules where a necessary evil at the time, they evolved into better shape as time passed but when Nintendo released their first console, the industry was a total chaos in need of order and control to regain consumers trust.

Had Nintendo not been that strict, they would have been another Atari and none of us would ever know them for anything worth mentioning.

 

[hemo memo]

This is exactly why we shouldn't hope for any one company to have a stranglehold on the gaming market. Many of us veterans know how Nintendo used to role, but for those who are not old enough or did not follow the industry, healthy competition is a necessity for continued innovation and price suppression.

Absolutely. Competition is good.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Nintendo has always been horrible. Let's remember how the EU fined them for price fixing twice too

 

[ReBurn]

For better or for worse, those rules where a necessary evil at the time, they evolved into better shape as time passed but when Nintendo released their first console, the industry was a total chaos in need of order and control to regain consumers trust.

Had Nintendo not been that strict, they would have been another Atari and none of us would ever know them for anything worth mentioning.

Sorry, but this isn't correct. Nintendo wasn't being strict to end the chaos of the console market. There had been no chaos in quite some time as there was virtually no activity there. The US and UK were focused more on home computers than game consoles when the NES released and the console market was essentially a clean slate.

There also no evidence that Nintendo would have been another Atari without their policies. Nintendo saw an opportunity for control of a dormant market and were predatory in their approach to it. They used their "Seal of Quality," aka the lockout chip, to keep prices high, control supply, and extract as much revenue from game development companies as possible. There were tons of crappy games released for the NES, after all. It's the policies that Nintendo enacted in the 8-bit and 16-bit eras then that caused them to stumble when PlayStation released and allowed developers more creative and economic freedom.

 

[Drizzlehell]

They still are. It's one of the scummiest companies in the industry.

 

[cireza]

Nothing new here. They want as much control as possible and still do whatever they can in that regard. Many older practices became illegal, but there is still plenty of room to keep things under control in terms of communication and brand image.

 

[Kiya's Guard]

Did they ever stop being control freaks? I don't think so. Recently I learned that in 2021 they patented two mechanics related to your hand powers in TotK. They have always been super protective about their IPs

 

[SCB3]

That's actually the first I've heard about that but yeah it can't be understated how important SFII was to the SNES. It was already on fire (at least in the US) thanks to Mario, Zelda and whatnot, but SFII made it the console every kid wanted to play with their friends, the FOMO was palpable.

Well until Mortal Kombat came along, that was the true fighting game then

 

[SirTerry-T]

This guy would have had Jim, Phil and the rest crying like babies.

 

[RoboFu]

Like some have already said, it wasn’t just about being stubborn or greedy. they were trying to not cause another crash. The market was like a sick tree that needed special attention and pruning.

 

[Neo_GAF]

i mean nintendo was back then a yakuza company with hiroshi yamauchi as their boss.
have you seen this guy back in the day?
he fucked tons of women and had his own brothels.

 

[nush]

he fucked tons of women and had his own brothels.

Based.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Nintendo had a very successful platform and games, and they had to become control freaks or they’d get screwed left and right by people wanting their share of that pie. They went way too far with that and Yamauchi got too cocky when the time came to release the SNES successor, so he got the middle finger from devs who just had to cross the golden bridges Sony had built for them. But let’s not act like the Donkey Kong copyright lawsuit or the litigations with Tengen, to name just two, didn’t justify Nintendo doing all they could to get a stranglehold on their market. Nintendo wouldn’t have survived without extensive control and very good lawyers.

The thing with the best chips not being allowed for the US version of some games was bs, but maybe there were cost reasons. I don’t have sales data on hand, but would Gradius II or Castlevania 3 have sold enough in the US to justify the more expensive chips?

 

[MarkMe2525]

Like some have already said, it wasn’t just about being stubborn or greedy. they were trying to not cause another crash. The market was like a sick tree that needed special attention and pruning.

If you ignore the many practices that were only there to boost their profits... then yeah. I don't see how requiring a publisher to print their manuals through Nintendo helped the gaming market. I don't see how Nintendo requiring an upfront licensing fee + residual royalties on top of over priced minimum cartridge orders helped the industry.

Nintendo had the right to make a healthy profit, but they used their market dominance to take far more of a share then they should have been entitled to. Proof is in the pudding when companies such as Playstation were able to prosper and generate profit without resorting to such strong arm tactics. The story has already been told and Nintendo was forced to change.

In saying that, I am a fan of Nintendo so I am glad to see that they made the necessary adjustments to maintain a large presence in the industry.

 

[Kataploom]

Sorry, but this isn't correct. Nintendo wasn't being strict to end the chaos of the console market. There had been no chaos in quite some time as there was virtually no activity there. The US and UK were focused more on home computers than game consoles when the NES released and the console market was essentially a clean slate.

There also no evidence that Nintendo would have been another Atari without their policies. Nintendo saw an opportunity for control of a dormant market and were predatory in their approach to it. They used their "Seal of Quality," aka the lockout chip, to keep prices high, control supply, and extract as much revenue from game development companies as possible. There were tons of crappy games released for the NES, after all. It's the policies that Nintendo enacted in the 8-bit and 16-bit eras then that caused them to stumble when PlayStation released and allowed developers more creative and economic freedom.

I'm just referring to what many documentaries say to make the conclusion, there's a reason why "Super Mario saved game consoles industry" is a recurrent statement even to these days.

 

[ienjoyrawfish]

This is why I hated Nintendo and avoided them until the Switch

I still think they’re a trash company but man they make amazing games

This.

They make great games, but as a corporation they always have been (and still are) absolute bastards.

People turn a blind eye to it (and at times even defend it) just because it's Nintendo and they gave them all these warm and fuzzy childhood memories. That's fanboyism for you. If EA or Ubisoft pulled half the shit Nintendo did they'd get absolutely lambasted for it.

 

[BbMajor7th]

I like that they dance to their tune, do their own thing and defy expectations, but yeah, they're only second to Disney for warm and cuddly on the outside, cold and merciless on the inside. Then again, a company doesn't keep going for 135 years by playing nicely.

 

[TLZ]

This guy would have had Jim, Phil and the rest crying like babies.

Looks straight out of Yakuza.

 

[AJUMP23]

If you can control the market you will.

 

[diffusionx]

Nintendo's decisions regarding the NES lockout chip and Seal of Quality in the USA was not just a response to the meltdown of vidya consoles in the US but what was going on with Famicom once it got popular, the decision to exert control over their platform was eminently sensible and logical and also had the effect of making them tons of money.

 

[cartman414]

We can't forget how Nintendo screwed Capcom over Super SF2. Capcom kind of expected Nintendo owed them one for SF2 on the SNES in 92 but Nintendo didn't see it that way.

How did that happen?

I wouldn't call Sony more benevolent necessarily for how they treated 3rd parties, just more PR savvy. Granted it was beneficial.

 

[dave_d]

How did that happen?

I wouldn't call Sony more benevolent necessarily for how they treated 3rd parties, just more PR savvy. Granted it was beneficial.

The gist of the SSF2 story was that getting SF2 as a SNES/SFAMI exclusive really kicked sales of the systems into the high gear that Nintendo had hoped since that was such a hugely popular title at the time. Anyway one of the problem with cartridges vs CDs is that carts take much longer to make. On top of that for most games you sell most of them in the first month or two. This gives you a problem, if you don't order enough cartridges for your first run you miss out on sales.(Since even if a person was interested in you game if the next run is 2 or 3 months later they've moved on.) Order too many and you'll be stuck with carts that you had to pay for up front.(You had to pay Nintendo for the cost of manufacture and a licensing fee.) With CDs, especially on the playstation, this wasn't a problem since you can do a second run of the game if it sells well in the initial period.(Because the turn around is so quick.) So Capcom apparently thought since Nintendo owed them one that they could get away with ordering extra cartridges and if a game didn't sell that they could return them for a rebate. Unfortunately when they did this with SSF2 they ordered more than they could sell. Then when they tried to return the unsold cartridges or at least get their licensing fee back Nintendo told them to take a hike.(IE Nintendo kept all the money Capcom paid for those games and wouldn't give them any sort of refund.) Suffice it to say Capcom wasn't exactly happy with that outcome and was more than happy to move on to pretty much everybody else. (I mean eventually they came back eventually but Nintendo would have been better off if say Resident Evil came out on the N64 first.)

 

[German Hops]

 

[cartman414]

The gist of the SSF2 story was that getting SF2 as a SNES/SFAMI exclusive really kicked sales of the systems into the high gear that Nintendo had hoped since that was such a hugely popular title at the time. Anyway one of the problem with cartridges vs CDs is that carts take much longer to make. On top of that for most games you sell most of them in the first month or two. This gives you a problem, if you don't order enough cartridges for your first run you miss out on sales.(Since even if a person was interested in you game if the next run is 2 or 3 months later they've moved on.) Order too many and you'll be stuck with carts that you had to pay for up front.(You had to pay Nintendo for the cost of manufacture and a licensing fee.) With CDs, especially on the playstation, this wasn't a problem since you can do a second run of the game if it sells well in the initial period.(Because the turn around is so quick.) So Capcom apparently thought since Nintendo owed them one that they could get away with ordering extra cartridges and if a game didn't sell that they could return them for a rebate. Unfortunately when they did this with SSF2 they ordered more than they could sell. Then when they tried to return the unsold cartridges or at least get their licensing fee back Nintendo told them to take a hike.(IE Nintendo kept all the money Capcom paid for those games and wouldn't give them any sort of refund.) Suffice it to say Capcom wasn't exactly happy with that outcome and was more than happy to move on to pretty much everybody else. (I mean eventually they came back eventually but Nintendo would have been better off if say Resident Evil came out on the N64 first.)

They did SFA2 for SNES, compression chip and all, which was a real surprise in light of this, though it couldn't have been that big an order that time.

 

[daffyduck]

.

 

[Zapperman]

T

 

[Gambit2483]

Double post ;p