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[GDGF]

I thought NX was always meant to be the framework rather than the specific console?

Same here, but folks are being careful with their wording since nothing is 100% fact.

 

[Neoxon]

This is kind of big, is it not?

It could mean that:

1) NX is indeed a console AND handheld.

OR

2) The Pokemon Company is open putting a mainline title on a home console (do the spinoffs use Pokemon Bank or the Global Link in any way?).

OR

3) Both

1. I fixed the first one, since "portable & handheld" was a bit redundant.
2. The corrected version of #1 is the most likely scenario, as Game Freak is hell-bent on keeping mainline Pokémon games on handhelds.
3. Spin-offs don't use the Pokémon Bank, just the mainline ones.

 

[GDGF]

1. I fixed the first one, since "portable & handheld" was a bit redundant.
2. The corrected version of #1 is the most likely scenario, as Game Freak is hell-bent on keeping mainline Pokémon games on handhelds.
3. Spin-offs don't use the Pokémon Bank, just the mainline ones.

Thanks! I just woke up and should have caught it lol

Edit: I say go for it and make a new thread. New thread for new news, and this certainly seems newsworthy.

 

[Neoxon]

So, should I make a new thread with the news or should this thread suffice for discussion on the article? I just want to make sure.

 

[Vena]

So, should I make a new thread with the news or should this thread suffice for discussion on the article? I just want to make sure.

Nah, this isn't that thread worthy in and of itself.

 

[Neoxon]

Nah, this isn't that thread worthy in and of itself.

Thanks for the heads up, I guess this thread should work fine for discussing the implications of the article.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Frequent hardware refreshes never really work. People don't need consoles and handhelds like they need phones. The reason refreshes on phones work is because you're going to get a new phone, anyway, might as well get the newest one.

 

[Vena]

Thanks for the heads up, I guess this thread should work fine for discussing the implications of the article.

A patent is a big discussion point and has a lot of information in it that is largely novel, even if ultimately meaningless if not applied.

This is a snipet of an interview. The interview as a whole would be potentially thread worthy if it had a number of interesting things to discuss but just one exert from it is better in the general "OT", I would say.

Frequent hardware refreshes never really work. People don't need consoles and handhelds like they need phones. The reason refreshes on phones work is because you're going to get a new phone, anyway, might as well get the newest one.

I personally don't think it will be as frequent as some suspect, but I wouldn't be surprised if we saw it more frequently than 3DS->N3DS events with a gradual step function upgrade cycle of "OG plays everything from years 1-5, NG plays everything from years 3-7 but a little better than OG and a little worse than NNG, NNG plays everything from 5-10" and so on.

 

[Neoxon]

Frequent hardware refreshes never really work. People don't need consoles and handhelds like they need phones. The reason refreshes on phones work is because you're going to get a new phone, anyway, might as well get the newest one.

Though in a way, Nintendo's already moving towards such a refresh method with the n3DS. Obviously each singular model will likely see support for at least 5 years, but doing a refresh every 2-3 years (obviously not a year, that'd be insanity) would at least ensure that the NX Console line can keep up with the PS5 & the next Xbox, while allowing the NX Handheld to maintain a healthy distance in power from the console.

 

[Dr. Buni]

Didn't see this anywhere, but apparently Famitsu interviewed Ishihara (Pokémon Company), and he mentions that he wants Pokémon Bank and Global Link on future platforms such as the NX. This seems like further evidence that the NX term is used for both home consoles and handhelds, considering the core Pokémon series is always on the latter.

This deeply pleases me.

I personally don't think it will be as frequent as some suspect, but I wouldn't be surprised if we saw it more frequently than 3DS->N3DS events with a gradual step function upgrade cycle of "OG plays everything from years 1-5, NG plays everything from years 3-7 but a little better than OG and a little worse than NNG, NNG plays everything from 5-10" and so on.

As long as the first model can play all games, even if slightly "worse", that is fine by me.

 

[L Thammy]

I don't know why people (or maybe it's just Neoxon) are so insistent that mainline Pokemon can't be on consoles. There are obvious strategic reasons why they target handheld with every mainline game. It costs less, and it encourages kids to bring the game to school and use it as a social tool. That doesn't mean that they loathe consoles. You could play the handheld version on your N64 via Pokemon Stadium, and there were two RPGs in the style of the mainline games on the GameCube. You even needed those two console RPGs if you wanted to get all of the Johto Pokemon at one point.

Assuming it's trivially easy to get an NX handheld game working on the console, or to get handheld-targeting games it working on both, why wouldn't they? What is the strategic reason? They're still targeting handheld and probably are on an appropriate budget. The handheld version isn't going anywhere, so if kids get that, they can have the social experience.

 

[Neoxon]

I don't know why people (or maybe it's just Neoxon) are so insistent that mainline Pokemon can't be on consoles. There are obvious strategic reasons why they target handheld with every mainline game. It costs less, and it encourages kids to bring the game to school and use it as a social tool. That doesn't mean that they loathe consoles. You could play the handheld version on your N64 via Pokemon Stadium, and there were two RPGs in the style of the mainline games on the GameCube. You even needed those two console RPGs if you wanted to get all of the Johto Pokemon at one point.

Assuming it's trivially easy to get an NX handheld game working on the console, or to get handheld-targeting games it working on both, why wouldn't they? What is the strategic reason? They're still targeting handheld and probably are on an appropriate budget. The handheld version isn't going anywhere, so if kids get that, they can have the social experience.

It's not that Pokémon can't be on consoles (obviously they'd have to change a few things), it's that Game Freak doesn't want the mainline series to be on consoles. If the NX Console can play the NX Handheld games like a GameBoy Player without any need to scale the game up, then that solves the problem. But I fear that Game Freak will put some kind of lock on the game to prevent use on the NX Console. But as you've said, that didn't stop previous Pokémon games from being played on the GameBoy Player, so maybe that won't be an issue. It's just that Game Freak likely won't put any effort towards scaling the game up towards the NX Console. And if the NX Handheld as any unique features, Game Freak may end up utilizing those to the point where the NX Console can't play the game.

 

[L Thammy]

It's not that Pokémon can't be on consoles (obviously they'd have to change a few things), it's that Game Freak doesn't want the mainline series to be on consoles.

Again, is there any reason to believe that would be true assuming that they can still target the handheld? Is there any actual evidence of that? Up until at X/Y at least, a handheld/console multiplatform release would be kind of ridiculous.

It seems like the logic behind that assumption is is Game Freak hasn't done a mainline console game yet, so they must hate consoles whereas the logic they're actually operating on is more likely Game Freak hasn't done a mainline console game because mainline handheld games fit their strategy better.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

It's not that Pokémon can't be on consoles (obviously they'd have to change a few things), it's that Game Freak doesn't want the mainline series to be on consoles.

You've become the guy handing out pamphlets about this, but the ecosystem next-generation is going to be very different. One thing you are definitely fabricating is the idea that GameFreak will sabotage or do everything in their power from allowing a mainline Pokemon to be playable on the NX Console.

That's just ludicrous if you ask me. That would be the equivalent to Game Freak adding lines of code to block the Game Boy Player / Super Game Boy from launching the hand held Pokemons on your GameCube and Super Nintendo. The reality is, not only could you play Pokemon on you SNES and GameCube, but they even had custom borders attributed to them. You are extrapolating that Game Freak won't develop a console Pokemon - in the sense that they wouldn't exclusively develop a Pokemon with the standards of all these high-end 3D games on consoles - to them having some philosophical notion to ban Pokemon from reaching a console audience.

There are multiple companies involved here - the survival of Pokemon as an IP - as well as the platform it has been distributed through - need to survive the next-generation. You better believe all the benefactors are going to work together on this.

 

[Neoxon]

Again, is there any reason to believe that would be true assuming that they can still target the handheld? Is there any actual evidence of that? Up until at X/Y at least, a handheld/console multiplatform release would be kind of ridiculous.

It seems like the logic behind that assumption is is Game Freak hasn't done a mainline console game yet, so they must hate consoles whereas the logic they're actually operating on is more likely Game Freak hasn't done a mainline console game because mainline handheld games fit their strategy better.

The difference here is that Game Freak actively said that they won't do console games for the mainline Pokémon franchise.

 

[L Thammy]

The difference here is that Game Freak actively said that they won't do console games for the mainline Pokémon franchise.

Read the thing you posted. It actually shows that Pokemon is on handheld for strategic reasons, not that they're actively opposed to a console version. It's also from before X/Y were released. A game that uses 3D models during battle can more easily receive graphical improvements for the console version.

Sugimori stated, “I am interested in strong visual effects. However, I believe that Pokémon is most appropriate for portable consoles.”

Masuda then chimed in, “ I’m really not thinking about having the main Pokémon games on the Wii, because using portable consoles means you can always carry Pokémon around with you and you can play with other players, so that’s the future I’d like to emphasize.”

 

[Neoxon]

Read the thing you posted. It actually shows that Pokemon is on handheld for strategic reasons, not that they're actively opposed to a console version. It's also from before X/Y were released. A game that uses 3D models during battle can more easily receive graphical improvements for the console version.

But that still leaves issues like trading & the idea of Pokémon that Game Freak may not set aside easily.

 

[L Thammy]

But that still leaves issues like trading & the idea of Pokémon that Game Freak may not set aside easily.

There's been online trading since Diamond and Pearl, so there's no reason why it's impossible for the console to have some form of it. And local trading will likely remain on the handheld. Previous Nintendo systems have had console-handheld interactivity, so maybe the console can even manage local trading with the handheld version.

And if Game Freak doesn't have to set aside the handheld version to release the console one (again, because the software is either trivially easy to port or compatible with both) than they don't have to set aside their idea. Although I again question whether that's a real problem to begin with.

 

[Pokemaniac]

Look Neoxon, if NX actually does have a shared library, then there's no reason why Game Freak would block Pokemon games from running on the console. While Game Freak has been pretty clear that they won't make a Pokemon game specifically for consoles, they've never been shy about allowing people to play the games that do get made on consoles. All the GB games have Super Game Boy backgrounds, the two Pokemon stadium games had a Game Boy emulator built straight into them, Pokemon Box had a GBA emulator built in, and they didn't put code in to block the GBA games from running on the Game Boy Player (And I know it would have been possible, because the GBA cartridges that had episodes of TV shows on them did just that).

You really need to stop making dogmatic assertions like this. Especially without fully understanding the context behind the original statements.

 

[atbigelow]

If they go with a unified library, that makes for a drastically different software situation than when the question of a console Pokemon was asked. Times change.

 

[sörine]

Every 3 years or so would be fine.

Handhelds have already been roughly on a 3 year upgrade cycle ever since Virtual Boy imploded and Pokémon revived the Game Boy line in 1995. We went from that to GBC (1998) to GBA (2001) to DS (2004) to DSi (2008) to 3DS (2011) to n3DS (2014).

I'd expect a quicker cycle probably now, down to 2 years average with architectural improvements

 

[brainchild]

Frequent hardware refreshes never really work. People don't need consoles and handhelds like they need phones. The reason refreshes on phones work is because you're going to get a new phone, anyway, might as well get the newest one.

I disagree with this.

Presumably, frequent hardware refreshes would be catering to people who play on consoles/handhelds despite owning a smartphone. The kind of people you're referring to, that will always need a new phone but not a new handheld/console, might not even own/use a console/handheld in the first place, much less a new one.

I believe people who actively use dedicated gaming hardware are absolutely interested in frequent refreshes, if the improvements provide enough appreciable value to justify an upgrade.

Now, there will be some people that are always the last to upgrade hardware, but these people exist in the mobile market, too.

Having said all of that, I believe that dedicated gaming consumers have less incentive to upgrade, simply because gaming culture tends to focus on actual games, since the different systems all have exclusive software.

In smart device/tech/gadget culture, hardware is always the big focus, and so it's what consumers pay attention to the most. I believe that this is because of all of the devices on the market that do the same thing. If they all provide the same software, then hardware is where the consumer is going to have to start paying attention to in order to decide on which device is best for them.

The point is, while smartphones are more of a necessary and utilitarian device than gaming systems, their necessity isn't why people want frequent refreshes in the mobile market. You don't need to upgrade your phone on a regular basis to get the basic necessities out of it. Does a smartphone user NEED a better screen, battery life, better speakers every year? No, but the improvements would offer them a better qualitative experience. Well, many handheld gamers would love frequent refreshes that would offer them a better qualitative experience as well.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Though in a way, Nintendo's already moving towards such a refresh method with the n3DS. Obviously each singular model will likely see support for at least 5 years, but doing a refresh every 2-3 years (obviously not a year, that'd be insanity) would at least ensure that the NX Console line can keep up with the PS5 & the next Xbox, while allowing the NX Handheld to maintain a healthy distance in power from the console.

The new 3DS had two goals:

1) Revive interest in the 3DS as a stopgap to keep sales from continuing to decline before a successor was out.

2) Test to see if a market refresh with stronger hardware and exclusive games would get people to upgrade.

It accomplished neither of these goals. There's, what, one exclusive retail game? A few "enhanced" games but even those are few and far between and almost none advertise it.

It saw a brief spike in sales but then went back to normalcy almost immediately after. I don't think they'll be doing much of anything similar to the new 3DS.

 

[Neoxon]

The new 3DS had two goals:

1) Revive interest in the 3DS as a stopgap to keep sales from continuing to decline before a successor was out.

2) Test to see if a market refresh with stronger hardware and exclusive games would get people to upgrade.

It accomplished neither of these goals. There's, what, one exclusive retail game? A few "enhanced" games but even those are few and far between and almost none advertise it.

It saw a brief spike in sales but then went back to normalcy almost immediately after. I don't think they'll be doing much of anything similar to the new 3DS.

That's because the 3DS as a platform was already on the decline, & the n3DS came in too late. Timing a refresh for the NX line of systems would alleviate this, & would be necessary anyway if Nintendo wants the NX Platform to be the only dedicated gaming platform for Nintendo systems going forward (so they won't have to start from zero each time).

 

[James Scott]

I think a more proactive N3DS approach would work. Have the new revision replace the old one at retail with he first couple of games just having exclusive features like MH4U, it doesn't really need to have a ton of exclusives at first, just make it the easiest to find and have better experience at first and then make exclusives.
Neoxon seems pretty adamant on the Pokemon thing, but I'm not too sure. I dislike the Pokemon company and GF but I don't see them being so awful that they'd block a console version when things like Online exist. You can even make them cross compatible like MH3U.

 

[Scum]

Less talk of hardware and more talk of a software platform. NintendOS or else!

Handhelds have already been roughly on a 3 year upgrade cycle ever since Virtual Boy imploded and Pokémon revived the Game Boy line in 1995. We went from that to GBC (1998) to GBA (2001) to DS (2004) to DSi (2008) to 3DS (2011) to n3DS (2014).

I'd expect a quicker cycle probably now, down to 2 years average with architectural improvements

Hmmm...That's true.

 

[Neoxon]

I think a more proactive N3DS approach would work. Have the new revision replace the old one at retail with he first couple of games just having exclusive features like MH4U, it doesn't really need to have a ton of exclusives at first, just make it the easiest to find and have better experience at first and then make exclusives.

I still think that each piece of NX hardware should see 5 years of support before Nintendo moves on to the newer versions of said hardware. It's basically like how Apple supports iPhones for about a year or two after said iPhone gets replaced.

 

[Servbot24]

I still think that each piece of NX hardware should see 5 years of support before Nintendo moves on to the newer versions of said hardware. It's basically like how Apple supports iPhones for about a year or two after said iPhone gets replaced.

Fwiw Apple usually supports around 4 gens of phones at once.

 

[Neoxon]

Fwiw Apple usually supports around 4 gens of phones at once.

I meant with significant updates.

 

[Karsticles]

Honestly, I love the 10 year model. Buying a new console is my least favorite part of gaming, and the new generation rarely offers new gameplay experiences that could only be done as a result of the new hardware.

 

[James Scott]

About pricing and different SKUs, would more be better or would that confuse the costumer too much?
Like, what do we expect each variation to cost? The console at like 250-300 with the handheld at around 170-200?
Could they make a bundle with both, the handheld replacing the controller for a nice deal? (<500)

 

[Fourth Storm]

As far as 5 year cycles and whatnot, I suppose I am pessimistic in that I can see NX being probably the second to last generation of traditional consoles from Nintendo. I can see them studying Steam and eventually transforming themselves completely into a software platform, still with their own controllers and other goodies, of course. They might offer optimized hardware, but they would basically be standard hardware like Steam machines positioned for different price ranges and form factors, if that is even viable (might be a more low-volume enthusiast type deal).

Even now they are experimenting with different software development methods, such as Web Framework. NX will bring more of this as Takeda has stated that they are working to adopt industry standards into their own development environment, while relying less on their in-house tools.

The integration of development environments is quite technical, but in short, it is whether you use Nintendo&#8217;s original developing tool or a computer with readily available, standard developing tools when you develop video games for Nintendo platforms. Though we always try to create unique software content, we believe it would be efficient if we could integrate development tools. So, we are trying to gradually move toward the standard development tools from so-called &#8220;native&#8221; tools unique to Nintendo.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/stock/meeting/140627qa/03.html

Even in Silicon Valley, the core technology that is researched and developed has shifted from the area of semi-conductors. Engineers and developers should not do their research just by thinking about what technology has traditionally been relevant to them. Today&#8217;s engineers and developers must look into more diverse fields, including cloud and software-related technology.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/141030qa/03.html

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

The new 3DS had two goals:

1) Revive interest in the 3DS as a stopgap to keep sales from continuing to decline before a successor was out.

2) Test to see if a market refresh with stronger hardware and exclusive games would get people to upgrade.

It accomplished neither of these goals. There's, what, one exclusive retail game? A few "enhanced" games but even those are few and far between and almost none advertise it.

It saw a brief spike in sales but then went back to normalcy almost immediately after. I don't think they'll be doing much of anything similar to the new 3DS.

I think if we look at Nintendo's previous hardware refreshes there were also certain experiments related to testing possible future trends that could apply to different types of hardware entirely. See for example DSi, which was Nintendo's first platform with a digital store and certainly provided them with some amount of insight when it came to developing the Wii Shop Channel (even if it didn't end up being particularly good..).

The same may be true for many of the gameboy peripherals released over the years. In the case of the n3DS I think it's also possible that they were interested in testing the waters for more console ports on a handheld, perhaps in order to gain some insight about a possible unified platform in the future. Beyond that there were talks when Iwata was still alive about a new account system and it's possible this was also something that was planned to be tested on n3DS through a future update.

edit: NM, ignore this post

 

[Neoxon]

As far as 5 year cycles and whatnot, I suppose I am pessimistic in that I can see NX being probably the second to last generation of traditional consoles from Nintendo. I can see them studying Steam and eventually transforming themselves completely into a software platform, still with their own controllers and other goodies, of course. They might offer optimized hardware, but they would basically be Steam machines positioned for different price ranges and form factors, if that is even viable (might be a more low-volume enthusiast type deal).

Even now they are experimenting with different software development methods, such as Web Framework. NX will bring more of this as Takeda has stated that they are working to adopt industry standards into their own development environment, while relying less on their in-house tools.


http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/stock/meeting/140627qa/03.html

This just sounds like they're more open to using middleware than anything else. In theory, the point of the NX Platform is to eliminate having to start from zero each generation, and provide refreshes of their consoles & handhelds under the NX umbrella for generations to come. I do think that the NX Platform will be the last dedicated gaming platform from Nintendo, but that's because I think that Nintendo will continually upgrade it from then on.

 

[Nanashrew]

As far as 5 year cycles and whatnot, I suppose I am pessimistic in that I can see NX being probably the second to last generation of traditional consoles from Nintendo. I can see them studying Steam and eventually transforming themselves completely into a software platform, still with their own controllers and other goodies, of course. They might offer optimized hardware, but they would basically be standard hardware like Steam machines positioned for different price ranges and form factors, if that is even viable (might be a more low-volume enthusiast type deal).

Even now they are experimenting with different software development methods, such as Web Framework. NX will bring more of this as Takeda has stated that they are working to adopt industry standards into their own development environment, while relying less on their in-house tools.


http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/stock/meeting/140627qa/03.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/141030qa/03.html

On the topic of cloud technology, I do remember that NERD was looking into that when this generation started. I wonder if cloud saves and whatnot will be a major part of NX.

 

[Pokemaniac]

I think if we look at Nintendo's previous hardware refreshes there were also certain experiments related to testing possible future trends that could apply to different types of hardware entirely. See for example DSi, which was Nintendo's first platform with a digital store and certainly provided them with some amount of insight when it came to developing the Wii Shop Channel (even if it didn't end up being particularly good..).

The same may be true for many of the gameboy peripherals released over the years. In the case of the n3DS I think it's also possible that they were interested in testing the waters for more console ports on a handheld, perhaps in order to gain some insight about a possible unified platform in the future. Beyond that there were talks when Iwata was still alive about a new account system and it's possible this was also something that was planned to be tested on n3DS through a future update.

You have some things backwards. The DSi released in late 2008/early 2009. The Wii Shop Channel was available at launch in 2006, and WiiWare specifically launched in early 2008. If anything, the DSi was a prototype for the 3DS. If you read the related Iwata Asks, you'll see that the DSi was originally envisioned even closer to the 3DS then it ended up being.

The New 3DS is probably pretty similar to the DSi in this regard. In retrospect, it will probably have brought the 3DS closer to what its successor will end up being.

Also, Iwata was not talking about a new account system, he was talking about enhancements and new services to be added to the current one.

 

[Fourth Storm]

This just sounds like they're more open to using middleware than anything else. In theory, the point of the NX Platform is to eliminate having to start from zero each generation, and provide refreshes of their consoles & handhelds under the NX umbrella for generations to come. I do think that the NX Platform will be the last dedicated gaming platform from Nintendo, but that's because I think that Nintendo will continually upgrade it from then on.

It's one aspect of a larger transformation imo. By embracing standard dev tools, they can more easily deploy software to varied hardware configs in the future. Whether they stick with whatever consumer branding they decide on for Project NX for years to come has no bearing on how they develop for their platform or what type of hardware goes into the box.

Ultimately, consumers will decide. If the NX family is a smashing success, they can keep the party rolling. If nobody buys NX hardware, a software platform like Steam is a possible next option. I think Iwata realized this. Sakurai's talked about how much he likes Steam as well.

On the topic of cloud technology, I do remember that NERD was looking into that when this generation started. I wonder if cloud saves and whatnot will be a major part of NX.

That's a good question. I think if we're to use history as an example, whatever ends up coming out of this Cloud research will have a unique Nintendo spin on it.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

You have some things backwards. The DSi released in late 2008/early 2009. The Wii Shop Channel was available at launch in 2006, and WiiWare specifically launched in early 2008. If anything, the DSi was a prototype for the 3DS. If you read the related Iwata Asks, you'll see that the DSi was originally envisioned even closer to the 3DS then it ended up being.

The New 3DS is probably pretty similar to the DSi in this regard. In retrospect, it will probably have brought the 3DS closer to what its successor will end up being.

Also, Iwata was not talking about a new account system, he was talking about enhancements and new services to be added to the current one.

oops, you're right. My memory betrays me!

 

[Neoxon]

It's one aspect of a larger transformation imo. By embracing standard dev tools, they can more easily deploy software to varied hardware configs in the future. Whether they stick with whatever consumer branding they decide on for Project NX for years to come has no bearing on how they develop for their platform or what type of hardware goes into the box.

Ultimately, consumers will decide. If the NX family is a smashing success, they can keep the party rolling. If nobody buys NX hardware, a software platform like Steam is a possible next option. I think Iwata realized this. Sakurai's talked about how much he likes Steam as well.



That's a good question. I think if we're to use history as an example, whatever ends up coming out of this Cloud research will have a unique Nintendo spin on it.

Which is basically what the NX Platform would be embracing (in theory), not going third party.

 

[Pokemaniac]

It's one aspect of a larger transformation imo. By embracing standard dev tools, they can more easily deploy software to varied hardware configs in the future. Whether they stick with whatever consumer branding they decide on for Project NX for years to come has no bearing on how they develop for their platform or what type of hardware goes into the box.

Ultimately, consumers will decide. If the NX family is a smashing success, they can keep the party rolling. If nobody buys NX hardware, a software platform like Steam is a possible next option. I think Iwata realized this. Sakurai's talked about how much he likes Steam as well.



That's a good question. I think if we're to use history as an example, whatever ends up coming out of this Cloud research will have a unique Nintendo spin on it.

I'm pretty sure the deploying to multiple configs bit has more to do with unifying console and handheld and providing forwards comptibiltiy than with preparing for a third party future. Beside, if Nintendo ever got into standard computers, I think they'd take more after Apple than Valve.

 

[Roo]

On the topic of cloud technology, I do remember that NERD was looking into that when this generation started. I wonder if cloud saves and whatnot will be a major part of NX.

Acer was also on board with cloud services for Wii U when they bought iGware back in 2011 but nothing came out of it.

 

[Cave Johnson]

Honestly, I love the 10 year model. Buying a new console is my least favorite part of gaming, and the new generation rarely offers new gameplay experiences that could only be done as a result of the new hardware.

I always feel the 360/PS3 generation has laid the groundwork of what this generation is capable of polishing such as realizing bigger worlds, density, animations and multi-tiered systems. Games like TLG had to be pushed till next-gen due to such high ambitions even for a small studio, then there's Horizon, Fallout 4 and even the recent Witcher 3.

And this is not even limited to a major studio production. Games like No Man's Sky or the Witness are using the specs to make the games more realized. As much as the previous generation was great, I think you're underselling what the new generation hardware is bringing to the table in comparison. I for one wished I would've skipped the last generation knowing full well I could be playing the Remastered 60fps editions of their respective hits today.

 

[Fourth Storm]

Which is basically what the NX Platform would be embracing (in theory), not going third party.

I'm pretty sure the deploying to multiple configs bit has more to do with unifying console and handheld and providing forwards comptibiltiy than with preparing for a third party future. Beside, if Nintendo ever got into standard computers, I think they'd take more after Apple than Valve.

Iwata, in his original talk about unifying architectures, was open to the possibility that, one day, consumers may only require one version of Nintendo hardware. I think that's taking it even further than the "Steam Machine" analogue I envisioned. Are we to think that if hardware sales are so low that only one machine is economically feasible, that Nintendo will concentrate all their creative resources on that small market? I think their mobile initiative would speak otherwise.

With NX, it looks like Nintendo will probably use compatible CPUs and perhaps even GPUs. That takes alot of the burden off of OS development and software porting. That's a separate issue from using middleware. That's smart either way, but it has the side effect that they are now going to be acquainted with the types of tools third parties are using to develop multiplatform.

Remember back to when Iwata first talked about redefining a platform. This is before NX was even launched. But he defined their platform as NNID, and that still continues to be the case with NX and mobile. Besides the NX family, we're looking at probably a web page and multiple mobile apps all connected to this database. It's just a short leap from where they are positioning themselves for in the immediate future to a desktop app. They've never even believed in hardware as something consumers want. Only something people begrudgingly buy in order to play the latest software. As far as expenditure, Nintendo has continuously invested in their software and treated hardware as more of a gateway to that software and even a toy. How many other more hardware-oriented companies have dropped out of the race, because they can't keep up with the elite giants in the business? I'm talking about electronics in general.

To finish with some more grab bag thoughts...The discussion when we're talking the future of consoles in general gravitates towards virtualized platforms. Console now are merely semicustom PCs with a semicustom OS. Development for Windows/Mac through their own portal in addition to Android/iOS is a natural path for Nintendo. As presently with Pokemon GO, they can continue to create the type of hardware to complement their software. And that's just one example. On PC, they can go as nuts as they want with controllers and not worry about the low-margin console business.

 

[Scum]

About pricing and different SKUs, would more be better or would that confuse the costumer too much?
Like, what do we expect each variation to cost? The console at like 250-300 with the handheld at around 170-200?
Could they make a bundle with both, the handheld replacing the controller for a nice deal? (<500)

NCL should promote the 'Nintendo Family' mantra to lessen any confusion. As for pricing, NX Home for ~$250 & NX Go for $150 - $170.

 

[TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared]

I've got 500 quid set aside for NX next year now, so hopefully that'll get me a console with a couple of games.

Spoiler

at least one SKU of it better be out next year too

 

[mrklaw]

Frequent hardware refreshes never really work. People don't need consoles and handhelds like they need phones. The reason refreshes on phones work is because you're going to get a new phone, anyway, might as well get the newest one.

People don't need phones every two years either. They just get caught up in the consumerist cycle of being told they can have a 'free' phone when in fact they're paying for the phone with massively inflated contract prices.

So people are conditioned to think they want new phones. So why wouldn't that be a potential model for consoles too?

 

[James Scott]

NCL should promote the 'Nintendo Family' mantra to lessen any confusion. As for pricing, NX Home for ~$250 & NX Go for $150 - $170.

So they could make bundle in both for like $400? It all depends on what Nintendo wants to do, I guess. You can probably make a portable more powerful than the Vita with a normal screen at $170. I imagine they'll want to go for 200 which is the current 3DS price. No more than that.
As for the home console, not sure if they want to go for PS4/X1 specs. Maybe Wii U level with a better CPU for 250? Or maybe closer to Ps4 for that price? Not sure how achievable that is by next year or whenever it launches.

 

[Pokemaniac]

Iwata, in his original talk about unifying architectures, was open to the possibility that, one day, consumers may only require one version of Nintendo hardware. I think that's taking it even further than the "Steam Machine" analogue I envisioned. Are we to think that if hardware sales are so low that only one machine is economically feasible, that Nintendo will concentrate all their creative resources on that small market? I think their mobile initiative would speak otherwise.

With NX, it looks like Nintendo will probably use compatible CPUs and perhaps even GPUs. That takes alot of the burden off of OS development and software porting. That's a separate issue from using middleware. That's smart either way, but it has the side effect that they are now going to be acquainted with the types of tools third parties are using to develop multiplatform.

Remember back to when Iwata first talked about redefining a platform. This is before NX was even launched. But he defined their platform as NNID, and that still continues to be the case with NX and mobile. Besides the NX family, we're looking at probably a web page and multiple mobile apps all connected to this database. It's just a short leap from where they are positioning themselves for in the immediate future to a desktop app. They've never even believed in hardware as something consumers want. Only something people begrudgingly buy in order to play the latest software. As far as expenditure, Nintendo has continuously invested in their software and treated hardware as more of a gateway to that software and even a toy. How many other more hardware-oriented companies have dropped out of the race, because they can't keep up with the elite giants in the business? I'm talking about electronics in general.

To finish with some more grab bag thoughts...The discussion when we're talking the future of consoles in general gravitates towards virtualized platforms. Console now are merely semicustom PCs with a semicustom OS. Development for Windows/Mac through their own portal in addition to Android/iOS is a natural path for Nintendo. As presently with Pokemon GO, they can continue to create the type of hardware to complement their software. And that's just one example. On PC, they can go as nuts as they want with controllers and not worry about the low-margin console business.

Personally, I think that the "one machine" thing was something of a response to hybrid speculation. That entire thing kind of read to me as "we'll start with console and handheld, but will add or subtract form factors as the market demands".

I think you may be misreading Nintendo's stance on hardware a bit. If you look at quotes like this one in particular:

On the other hand, Nintendo continues to have strong passion and believes in the promising prospects for the future of our dedicated video game system business. We will deploy our game business on smart devices not because we think that the dedicated game system business will wane, but because doing so will encourage a greater number of people to associate with Nintendo IP, to become familiar with the charms of video games and, eventually, to explore more premium experiences on our dedicated game systems. To realize this, we need to create a bridge between the two platforms.

It seems pretty clear that they still view their dedicated hardware as the main event and that everything else is meant to feed into that. The increase in availability for NNID across platforms seems to be more of a way to keep their connection with their customers open through any hardware that the customer has.

Also, Nintendo has detailed in the past how they view their software and hardware development as closely related. This is how we've ended up with features like StreetPass, for example.

Thinking that Nintendo is essentially already calling it quits with hardware at this point is an overly pessimistic reading of the situation. Sure, the moves they've made will help cushion the blow if that happens, but I don't think that that is their intention.

 

[James Scott]

Could Nintendo theoretically make both devices future proof with cloud based streaming in the future? Not near launch, but like 5 years from now when the next versions come out. Streaming tech will probably be much better and cheaper to implement. Could convince devs to make games for the second platform quicker as well since they wouldn't lose all of their instalbase

 

[Pokemaniac]

Could Nintendo theoretically make both devices future proof with cloud based streaming in the future? Not near launch, but like 5 years from now when the next versions come out. Streaming tech will probably be much better and cheaper to implement. Could convince devs to make games for the second platform quicker as well since they wouldn't lose all of their instalbase

Assuming you're talking about using streaming to play new games on older hardware, that is a possible solution, but I'm not sure I find it particularly likely. Streaming has latency issues which aren't fully fixable that Iwata mentioned when asked about cloud streaming in the past. It also gives people much less of an incentive to upgrade. I think that cross-gen may be a better solution overall, especially because some of that work would have to be done for handheld support anyway.