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[NeonDelta]

Just read this is supposed to be out next summer?

Surely they would have shown something by now?

 

[James Scott]

Just read this is supposed to be out next summer?

Surely they would have shown something by now?

I think IGN was saying that. It's very unlikely. It's going to be announced early 2016 with a presumably holiday 2016 release

 

[Scum]

So they could make bundle in both for like $400? It all depends on what Nintendo wants to do, I guess. You can probably make a portable more powerful than the Vita with a normal screen at $170. I imagine they'll want to go for 200 which is the current 3DS price. No more than that.
As for the home console, not sure if they want to go for PS4/X1 specs. Maybe Wii U level with a better CPU for 250? Or maybe closer to Ps4 for that price? Not sure how achievable that is by next year or whenever it launches.

It should all be about affordability. I think they can have an ARM based "WiiU 2.0" for $250 and an ARM based "Vita 2.0" for $150 - $200. But NCL will do best by trying for the $150 - $170 pricetag. The bundle wouldn't be such a bad idea either, especially if the handheld can double as a controller for the console.

 

[James Scott]

It should all be about affordability. I think they can have an ARM based "WiiU 2.0" for $250 and an ARM based "Vita 2.0" for $150 - $200. But NCL will do best by trying for the $150 - $170 pricetag. The bundle wouldn't be such a bad idea either, especially if the handheld can double as a controller for the console.

Yeah, would be an interesting tactic if they do include the touch screen controller again. Not entirely sure if it's wise. I really like the gamepad but if it's that expensive then it might not be worth it. Though I imagine they tech has gone down in price a bit and they can probably put effort into making a cheaper one

 

[Scum]

Yeah, would be an interesting tactic if they do include the touch screen controller again. Not entirely sure if it's wise. I really like the gamepad but if it's that expensive then it might not be worth it. Though I imagine they tech has gone down in price a bit and they can probably put effort into making a cheaper one

I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if the Gamepad, in a smaller form factor, becomes the next Nintendo handheld.

 

[Pokemaniac]

I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if the Gamepad, in a smaller form factor, becomes the next Nintendo handheld.

If they were to do that, they'd have to also provide a version of the Gamepad that wasn't the handheld. A handheld is too expensive to buy just as a controller.

 

[ArchedThunder]

That's because the 3DS as a platform was already on the decline, & the n3DS came in too late. Timing a refresh for the NX line of systems would alleviate this, & would be necessary anyway if Nintendo wants the NX Platform to be the only dedicated gaming platform for Nintendo systems going forward (so they won't have to start from zero each time).

And on top of that the second point about "exclusive games" isn't fair because the only exclusive game the n3DS even has is a port of a Wii game.

 

[Scum]

If they were to do that, they'd have to also provide a version of the Gamepad that wasn't the handheld. A handheld is too expensive to buy just as a controller.

I was thinking about including an NFC version of an improve Pro controller with the console. That way, it could be - NX Home + improved NFC Pro Controller for $250. NX Go (that can double as a controller) for $150.

 

[Pokemaniac]

I was thinking about including an NFC version of an improve Pro controller with the console. That way, it could be - NX Home + improved NFC Pro Controller for $250. NX Go (that can double as a controller) for $150.

Assuming a single screened handheld, we have a lot of past evidence that such a setup would not be meaningfully utilized.

Assuming a dual screened handheld, that severely hinders developers' ability to make meaningful uses of the handheld's second screen.

If the feature isn't available out of the box for everyone, then it will barely be used, if at all.

 

[PdotMichael]

People don't need phones every two years either. They just get caught up in the consumerist cycle of being told they can have a 'free' phone when in fact they're paying for the phone with massively inflated contract prices.

So people are conditioned to think they want new phones. So why wouldn't that be a potential model for consoles too?

Nintendo would make more money if people are buying one or two games more than a new hardware revision. The profit margin of a console is paper thin at best.

Also the retailers would sure lobe it if they must get rid of their consoles every two years.

 

[Ogodei]

As far as 5 year cycles and whatnot, I suppose I am pessimistic in that I can see NX being probably the second to last generation of traditional consoles from Nintendo. I can see them studying Steam and eventually transforming themselves completely into a software platform, still with their own controllers and other goodies, of course. They might offer optimized hardware, but they would basically be standard hardware like Steam machines positioned for different price ranges and form factors, if that is even viable (might be a more low-volume enthusiast type deal).

Even now they are experimenting with different software development methods, such as Web Framework. NX will bring more of this as Takeda has stated that they are working to adopt industry standards into their own development environment, while relying less on their in-house tools.


http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/stock/meeting/140627qa/03.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/141030qa/03.html

The key is that the PC hardware environment needs to get further, although i agree that's probably where they're going. Arguably it's where Sony is going too, although Hirai's revitilization of their hardware side might change that.

Microsoft could just roll Xbox Live off to its own thing when Nadella nopes out of "side businesses"

 

[Fourth Storm]

Personally, I think that the "one machine" thing was something of a response to hybrid speculation. That entire thing kind of read to me as "we'll start with console and handheld, but will add or subtract form factors as the market demands".

It was a response to hybrid speculation. And the future I am speculating on is what would come if the market does not any longer respond to their hardware.

I think you may be misreading Nintendo's stance on hardware a bit. If you look at quotes like this one in particular:

It seems pretty clear that they still view their dedicated hardware as the main event and that everything else is meant to feed into that. The increase in availability for NNID across platforms seems to be more of a way to keep their connection with their customers open through any hardware that the customer has.

Also, Nintendo has detailed in the past how they view their software and hardware development as closely related. This is how we've ended up with features like StreetPass, for example.

Thinking that Nintendo is essentially already calling it quits with hardware at this point is an overly pessimistic reading of the situation. Sure, the moves they've made will help cushion the blow if that happens, but I don't think that that is their intention.

That's not what I was saying at all. Of course Iwata was optimistic on their chances to bounce back in the NX generation. He was also a man very observant of overall trends in technology and media consumption. If you read my original comment, I said NX could very well be their second to last traditional hardware generation. Honestly, it may even be their last if things really tank hard. My point was that some of the things Nintendo are doing now could potentially set themselves up for a smoother transition into becoming a virtual platform holder and it might not even clash so much with their traditional philosophies. You mentioned StreetPass. That could be a mobile app and reach millions more people.

I'm looking at the future of consoles in general, not just Nintendo, although if things keep going the way they are, they will be forced to transition their business before the others do. They have already shown that they are open to major policy changes. It's getting hard to justify dedicated hardware outside the circle of elite gamers. There are too many other options out there for the mainstream audience which are getting to be almost as good (and, in the case of PC, much better). I'd personally give it another generation after the current, but change is inevitable in the market.

 

[Rodin]

I don't think there are reasons to overthink this, really. They clearly said what model they're pursuing: iOS. Steam is quite different from that, especially in some key aspects, and i don't see Nintendo ever changing those.

 

[Nanashrew]

Nintendo would make more money if people are buying one or two games more than a new hardware revision. The profit margin of a console is paper thin at best.

Also the retailers would sure lobe it if they must get rid of their consoles every two years.

It really depends on where consoles are going. Konami's recent slides are advocating evolution of hardware gen to gen with revisions and upgrades to maintain and expand userbase rather than resetting every gen. Resetting to 0 has always been a detriment and it's even worse in today's climate.

Konami's recent slides also sound familiar to what the NX may be from the very patents in this thread and things Iwata has said.

 

[Fourth Storm]

I don't think there are reasons to overthink this, really. They clearly said what model they're pursuing: iOS. Steam is quite different from that, especially in some key aspects, and i don't see Nintendo ever changing those.

My premise was more, "What do Nintendo do if a generation or so goes by and NX hardware does not sell?" It's really in response to some of the going 3rd party talk from a couple pages back. Similar to what AniHawk posted:

i think what happens with nintendo after nx depends on what happens to the dedicated market after this gen. i look at the dedicated market and i see it as one that is no longer growing. not just from a consumer perspective, but from a matter of presence at retail, amount of games released, up-and-coming publishers, and new franchises. so what is the lasting effect and what does it mean in five years? what does it mean in ten? it seems increasingly pointless to have a box-to-a-tv setup or a dedicated handheld unless you're part of the main demographic the industry largely targets, you're older, have lots of disposable income, and/or are an enthusiast.

something like steam machines seem like very primitive versions of what the marketplace will be years from now, where first-parties might use their os/cloud services to turn their platform into something that's playable on multiple devices, with perhaps one offered from the first-party directly. sony seems to want playstation now to be that kind of thing, and nx seems theoretically poised to be that kind of platform as well (in a very controlled way).

Games are transforming into services complete with subscription fees. The hardware business sucks and that's why nobody else has jumped in. It's low margin. What money Nintendo gets from potential third party royalties is irrelevant if they lose 3rd party support.

Maybe my somewhat disjointed thoughts have obscured what I was actually trying to get at. I need to go eat something.

 

[Adam Tyner]

Assuming a single screened handheld, we have a lot of past evidence that such a setup would not be meaningfully utilized.

Assuming a dual screened handheld, that severely hinders developers' ability to make meaningful uses of the handheld's second screen.

If the feature isn't available out of the box for everyone, then it will barely be used, if at all.

This isn't quite the same as the handheld being used as just a controller, but I'd love to see local multiplayer between the console and the handheld: player vs. player with different views on different screens. It's one of the best things the Wii U pulled off, for my money.

 

[ArchedThunder]

I don't think that NX will be Nintendo's last, or second to last traditional generation because I think Wii U/3DS is their last traditional generation. All the tid bits we've learned about NX makes me think it is going to be a perpetual "evolutionary" generation, a model that I hope Sony and MS jump on as well.

My premise was more, "What do Nintendo do if a generation or so goes by and NX hardware does not sell?" It's really in response to some of the going 3rd party talk from a couple pages back. Similar to what AniHawk posted:

Well if NX is not moving the units they want they can relaunch with new NX hardware with a new name, completely rebrand it and maybe add something new to it, but still have it just be the next evolution of the brand without being a generational reset. Restarting from zero again if NX is a failure likely won't do any good.

 

[Pokemaniac]

It was a response to hybrid speculation. And the future I am speculating on is what would come if the market does not any longer respond to their hardware.



That's not what I was saying at all. Of course Iwata was optimistic on their chances to bounce back in the NX generation. He was also a man very observant of overall trends in technology and media consumption. If you read my original comment, I said NX could very well be their second to last traditional hardware generation. Honestly, it may even be their last if things really tank hard. My point was that some of the things Nintendo are doing now could potentially set themselves up for a smoother transition into becoming a virtual platform holder and it might not even clash so much with their traditional philosophies. You mentioned StreetPass. That could be a mobile app and reach millions more people.

I'm looking at the future of consoles in general, not just Nintendo, although if things keep going the way they are, they will be forced to transition their business before the others do. They have already shown that they are open to major policy changes. It's getting hard to justify dedicated hardware outside the circle of elite gamers. There are too many other options out there for the mainstream audience which are getting to be almost as good (and, in the case of PC, much better). I'd personally give it another generation after the current, but change is inevitable in the market.

Ah, I misread your post.

I still don't really agree with your assessment, though. For one thing, the first platform to "disappear" will probably be Xbox, since the process of that getting subsumed into Windows us already well underway.

Second, I don't think home consoles are really going to disappear. The enthusiast market is too large, and PCs probably will never be able to really pick up the slack.

 

[disco]

Kind of off topic but when do you guys think we'll hear about the Club Nintendo successor?

 

[James Scott]

Kind of off topic but when do you guys think we'll hear about the Club Nintendo successor?

In October. Well, I think so. Could be later but I'm pretty sure they said they will show it off this year

 

[Eteric Rice]

Games becoming a service is terrifying to me. We'll be fucked over from every direction.

 

[Neoxon]

Games becoming a service is terrifying to me. We'll be fucked over from every direction.

Plus the input lag....*shutters*

 

[ArchedThunder]

Plus the input lag....*shutters*

Games being a service doesn't mean streaming, streaming is just one form "games as a service" has taken.

 

[Neoxon]

Games being a service doesn't mean streaming, streaming is just one form "games as a service" has taken.

So like Street Fighter V?

 

[ArchedThunder]

So like Street Fighter V?

MMO, Free to play, there are many forms of "Games as a service".

 

[Roo]

Kind of off topic but when do you guys think we'll hear about the Club Nintendo successor?

Don't they have an investors meeting late October? Probably there.

edit: Yup, October 28.
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/

Expect news about the new program, their mobile games, Kimishima's new role in the company, etc.

 

[Neoxon]

Don't they have an investors meeting late October? Probably there.

That would make sense. Maybe it'll give us more insight on what to expect from the NX Platform. So far we're only been able to make educated guesses based on interviews & patents. It'll be nice to get some more concrete information.

 

[Ogodei]

Probably just be them bragging about the amiibo money, since it would cover the period ending in 10 days.

Though if their first mobile offering lands by then we could see some neat questions there.

 

[Clefargle]

I'm more interested in the restructuring plans and hopefully details about Kimishimas role in Nintendos future and ideas for it. I don't expect any relevant info outside patent leaks until next year. Which is fine, they will need to hype this one and not get deflated by leaks pre-e3/direct announcement.

 

[ArchedThunder]

That would make sense. Maybe it'll give us more insight on what to expect from the NX Platform. So far we're only been able to make educated guesses based on interviews & patents. It'll be nice to get some more concrete information.

The most I would expect is them to assure their investors that NX is still on track and that they would talk about it next year.

 

[Josh5890]

The most I would expect is them to assure their investors that NX is still on track and that they would talk about it next year.

Pretty much. Although we did get the first real news about amiibos.

I think the best we get is news on the new club nintendo unless a direct does it.

 

[James Scott]

I'm pretty interested in the new account/membership program. It's going to start on 3DS and Wii U and then it'll be absorbed into the NX.
Hopefully it's well implemented. I miss the DDP so I hope it's at least similar to that (providing discounts for loyal consumers)
I had my own idea to combine the concept of CN with the DDP. Buy a lot of games in a year and earn bigger discounts. Like reach the gold and platinum equivalent and get big discounts on digital games. Maybe activities like sharing a game's page on social media could get you some extra points though that could backfire. Lots of new things they can do with a brand new online infrastructure

 

[gundalf]

https://www.khronos.org/members/contributors/nintendo-co.-ltd

Nintendo is now member of the Khronos Group. The Khronos Group is well known for the OpenGL API and the anticipated Vulkan API.

Traditionally a Console does not need an abstraction layer like the OpenGL or Vulkan API, since you can already code to the "metal" anyway.
This heavily hints that the NX Platform will be indeed hardware agnostic - just like Android or even Windows 10!

 

[E-phonk]

https://www.khronos.org/members/contributors/nintendo-co.-ltd

Nintendo is now member of the Khronos Group. The Khronos Group is well known for the OpenGL API and the anticipated Vulkan API.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1115624

 

[Kandinsky]

I've got 500 quid set aside for NX next year now, so hopefully that'll get me a console with a couple of games.

Spoiler

at least one SKU of it better be out next year too

That's a good idea, will start saving haha

 

[StevieP]

https://www.khronos.org/members/contributors/nintendo-co.-ltd

Nintendo is now member of the Khronos Group. The Khronos Group is well known for the OpenGL API and the anticipated Vulkan API.

Traditionally a Console does not need an abstraction layer like the OpenGL or Vulkan API, since you can already code to the "metal" anyway.
This heavily hints that the NX Platform will be indeed hardware agnostic - just like Android or even Windows 10!

All consoles now have abstraction layers. There is no metal. The metal is dead

 

[Spladam]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1115624

This is very good news, and a very interesting development that I missed. This could have many very interesting ramifications. and is a move not like the Nintendo of old that I grew up with.

 

[lyrick]

so Six months later are the only HARD FACTs about this platform still:


It's a dedicated Gaming device that they hope to talk about more in 2016?

 

[Neoxon]

so Six months later are the only HARD FACTs about this platform still:


It's a dedicated Gaming platform that they hope to talk about more in 2016?

Yup

 

[Graphics Horse]

so Six months later are the only HARD FACTs about this platform still:

It's a dedicated Gaming device that they hope to talk about more in 2016?

That's what Iwata always said. Hopefully he meant early 2016.

 

[Pokemaniac]

https://www.khronos.org/members/contributors/nintendo-co.-ltd

Nintendo is now member of the Khronos Group. The Khronos Group is well known for the OpenGL API and the anticipated Vulkan API.

Traditionally a Console does not need an abstraction layer like the OpenGL or Vulkan API, since you can already code to the "metal" anyway.
This heavily hints that the NX Platform will be indeed hardware agnostic - just like Android or even Windows 10!

A couple things to keep in mind. Khronos also manages WebGL, so it is possible that Nintendo is only interested in that. Also, I'm pretty sure Nintendo already has their own graphics API that they could use.

 

[Bartholomuse]

so Six months later are the only HARD FACTs about this platform still:


It's a dedicated Gaming device that they hope to talk about more in 2016?

They've done an exceptional job of keeping a tight lid on the thing, try and remember back to how much we knew about Durango and Orbis a year in advance. The Nintendo E3 thread is going to be mental next year, for better or worse.

 

[E-phonk]

A couple things to keep in mind. Khronos also manages WebGL, so it is possible that Nintendo is only interested in that. Also, I'm pretty sure Nintendo already has their own graphics API that they could use.

Also, even 3DS can use (an old, not fully compatible version of) OpenGL ES 1.1 afaik

 

[Fourth Storm]

A couple things to keep in mind. Khronos also manages WebGL, so it is possible that Nintendo is only interested in that. Also, I'm pretty sure Nintendo already has their own graphics API that they could use.

Their Wii U graphics API, GX2, is heavily influenced by OpenGL. So, it could be they just want to keep a closer eye on what's going on as they develop the follow up API for NX. But Takeda has talked about adopting more industry standards (vs using in house tools), so maybe Vulkan is a possibility.

 

[CaviarMeths]

https://www.khronos.org/members/contributors/nintendo-co.-ltd

Nintendo is now member of the Khronos Group. The Khronos Group is well known for the OpenGL API and the anticipated Vulkan API.

Traditionally a Console does not need an abstraction layer like the OpenGL or Vulkan API, since you can already code to the "metal" anyway.
This heavily hints that the NX Platform will be indeed hardware agnostic - just like Android or even Windows 10!

Mmh platform agnostic probably, but still within Nintendo's own proprietary hardware. You won't be able to install NX on your PC.

More like iOS than Android or Windows.

 

[atbigelow]

https://www.khronos.org/members/contributors/nintendo-co.-ltd

Nintendo is now member of the Khronos Group. The Khronos Group is well known for the OpenGL API and the anticipated Vulkan API.

Traditionally a Console does not need an abstraction layer like the OpenGL or Vulkan API, since you can already code to the "metal" anyway.
This heavily hints that the NX Platform will be indeed hardware agnostic - just like Android or even Windows 10!

Nintendo has used an abstraction layer for their graphics API since the GameCube. All the consoles have since that generation. Nintendo's especially has been pretty close to OpenGL.

It's more interesting that they joined as a contributor. It doesn't say anything about hardware agnosticism.

 

[Schnozberry]

Their Wii U graphics API, GX2, is heavily influenced by OpenGL. So, it could be they just want to keep a closer eye on what's going on as they develop the follow up API for NX. But Takeda has talked about adopting more industry standards (vs using in house tools), so maybe Vulkan is a possibility.

Vulkan or a compatible derivative thereof would make a lot of sense, since Vulkan is key to the future of mobile graphics as well.

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

so Six months later are the only HARD FACTs about this platform still:


It's a dedicated Gaming device that they hope to talk about more in 2016?

Pretty much.

A Pokemon Company rep let slip that it would have cloud functionality, a few patents have come out that may or may not apply to the NX.

 

[Fourth Storm]

Vulkan or a compatible derivative thereof would make a lot of sense, since Vulkan is key to the future of mobile graphics as well.

Yeah, that was the other point I neglected to make. If Nintendo are looking to create something scalable with the NX hardware, they would save themselves much effort by adopting Vulkan API.

 

[jmizzal]

Pretty much.

A Pokemon Company rep let slip that it would have cloud functionality, a few patents have come out that may or may not apply to the NX.

Nintendo were investing in cloud before WiiU launched, I thought WiiU would have it but I guess they were still early on, so i'm sure NX will have some good cloud stuff since that was like 4 years ago.