• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

NIS America - "Microsoft's not very supportive of Japanese Games"

Because these are not the types of japanese games Microsoft is not looking for maybe?

header.jpg

Ooof. They can keep that loli horseshit. Enough creeps in the world. Give me the good wholesome Japanese games with adult robotic upskirt cams.
 

Celine

Member
Xbox One is the worst selling console in two decades in Japan and won't break 100K in its lifetime.
OG Xbox (473K) and Xbox 360 (1.61M) while not dominant forces in the market at least tried.
It's abundant clear that Microsoft doesn't care about Japan anymore.
 
"Microsoft, you know, for Japanese games, there's still a very niche element to them, no matter what it might be."


Because in the States, they are.
 
Your statement is very cynical.
Who is to say if there is an audience or not for niche Japanese game (or AAA Japanese games) on Xbox or not digitally?
AFAIK, putting out a digital copy of your SKU is cheaper and far less risky than printing a ton of discs that won't sell.
Is there cost involved supporting another platform? Sure. But the risks are lower and the chances of increased revenue are greatly improved.
Specifically, right now on Xbox is a dearth of quality Japanese games compared to PS4.
So if you're NIS or Falcom, why not take the plunge and test the Xbox digital waters? You'd be fighting less Japanese competition, because on Xbox, there basically isn't any. It's free market share.


As to giving up rights as a consumer...tell me...
how many Steam games do you own?
I think many other posters have already explained this in detail, but I'll elaborate to give you more of an idea.
First off, the Xbox is completely dead in Japan. It sells anywhere from 40-90 consoles a week in Japan, if that. Those numbers are, frankly, abysmal. Obviously the market for Xbox is more vibrant in the US and Europe (but really only the UK, Xbox performs poorly in most EU markets as well), but the companies you are talking about are Japan-centric companies. Falcom in particular is a very conservative, small company. They don't have their own western localization branch, and the western market is generally an afterthought to them. They will never develop a title for Xbox as long as Xbox does not sell in Japan. Nipon Ichi Software Japan is similar in this regard, they mainly release on Sony hardware and have just started with Switch to support Nintendo hardware more heavily.

That should make it clear why these smaller Japanese companies don't release on Xbox in Japan. You might say, why don't the localization companies port the games over to Xbox? Not a completely ridiculous question, as these companies do port games to PC. But once you get into the details, it's pretty easy to understand why they don't port to Xbox. First off, Sony platforms, Nintendo platforms, and PC are all proven markets for Japanese games. In the case of Sony and Nintendo, most games a localization company picks up are already on these platforms, so no porting is necessary, just localization and implementation of the localization. These are the ideal projects for a localization company, as these companies are usually small and often have very few, if any, technical staff. Basically the only ports being done by localization companies right now are PC ports, and success varies. Just asking a localization company to do a PC port is a huge undertaking for them, much more expensive than a normal localization. The risk should be worth it though, since people do buy Japanese games on PC. Adding another platform to that, any platform, makes the risk and burden that much higher, likely more than most companies can take on.

So why not Xbox over PC? That's simple. The PC market has proven viable for some niche Japanese releases. Xbox has not. It's too big of a risk. Add on top of that the inability to make a limited physical run or collector's edition with a higher profit margin that your hardcore will eat up, and there you have it. The only way this will change is if Xbox starts miraculously selling well in Japan (it wont) or Microsoft assists localization companies or Japanese devs with porting their games (unlikely).
 

Veon

Neo Member
I do wonder what companies like NIS will do if Ninth gen is more grounded and the big three share an even spilt?
 

SirKhalid

Member
Does anyone know how well games like Final Fantasy XV did on Xbox One?

I don't think there are any official numbers, but maybe we can use TrueAchievements to guess a bit. FF15 has about 1/3 of Halo 5 tracked gamers and 1/2 of Gears 4. For Cuphead, the tracked gamers were at 28k when they announced that they hit 1 million sales, people were guessing Cuphead sold on Xbox about 400-500k copies. FF15 was at 50k tracked gamers.
 

Nephtes

Member
Because digital numbers are bad in Japan and fans of niche japanese games prefer retail. Like he said, not having a physical version created many controversies already in the past. The Xbox has a history of poor performance for japanese games too.

Anyway, it's good to own the things I pay for. Not everyone wants a digital only future.

What does digital sales in Japan have to do with digital sales elsewhere?
Digital is doing nothing but growing, and a significant portion of Western gamers are only buying digitally anyways.
Look at the drop off in physical sales for Shadow of War and Destiny 2.
You don't think digital sales have accounted for a large chunk of that drop off?

Japan ignoring a potential revenue stream selling a digital only Xbox copy because a physical copy won't exist in the West is shortsighted and ignoring the gangbuster success of digital only stores like Steam...

By the way, you still never mentioned how many Steam games you own...
 
I get NIS, but Falcom has had virtually no presence on the most popular systems in Japan for the last two decades, so not sure why they're chiming in here lol.
 

Oregano

Member
Alright. Cool. You have no interest in actually engaging me or the substance of my posts.

Please continue to engage your imaginary opponent in this debate.

I just fail to see how Vesperia is a bomb considering its still one of the better selling games in the series, considering both games that released before and after it. I especially don't understand the implication that Vesperia's exclusivity caused or exacerbated a decline in the west.
 
I just fail to see how Vesperia is a bomb considering its still one of the better selling games in the series, considering both games that released before and after it. I especially don't understand the implication that Vesperia's exclusivity caused or exacerbated a decline in the west.

Yes, and you also seem to have trouble reading or comprehending my posts. So I'm not too terribly shocked at the state of your general confusion.
 
What does digital sales in Japan have to do with digital sales elsewhere?
Digital is doing nothing but growing, and a significant portion of Western gamers are only buying digitally anyways.
Look at the drop off in physical sales for Shadow of War and Destiny 2.
You don't think digital sales have accounted for a large chunk of that drop off?

Japan ignoring a potential revenue stream because a physical copy won't exist in the West is shortsighted and ignoring the gangbuster success of Steam...

By the way, you still never mentioned how many Steam games you own...
Already answered you, that's a different poster. Read my post above and then consider the information.

Also I have like 400 Steam games, I'm not completely opposed to digital or something. Most of those games were bought on a deep discount, from Humble Bundles, or are only available digitally on PC. Steam also has a consumer friendly refund policy. There isn't much of a choice between physical and digital on PC anyway, so bringing up Steam is kind of missing the point. If I have the option to buy physical then I will always take that option, but that isn't always an option.
 
I just fail to see how Vesperia is a bomb considering its still one of the better selling games in the series, considering both games that released before and after it. I especially don't understand the implication that Vesperia's exclusivity caused or exacerbated a decline in the west.

I mean, there’s a reason why Bamco went on to bring 4 more tales games to PS3 and never again for the 360.
 
When you factor in how much digital probably sells for these games, they probably wouldn't end up making much if any profit porting to the Xbox One.

What would that factor be? 100% of the sales on steam are digital. There are games on consoles that are digital only and have similar sales numbers as steam.

Not to mention the costs to port goes way down when you don't have to have a physical print, specially if you already have a PC version.
 

Nephtes

Member
Already answered you, that's a different poster. Read my post above and then consider the information.

Also I have like 400 Steam games, I'm not completely opposed to digital or something. Most of those games were bought on a deep discount, from Humble Bundles, or are only available digitally on PC. Steam also has a consumer friendly refund policy. There isn't much of a choice between physical and digital on PC anyway, so bringing up Steam is kind of missing the point. If I have the option to buy physical then I will always take that option, but that isn't always an option.

I mean, the quote of mine wasn't posing the question to you, it was posed to the person who ignored my question.

Your own response was overtly concerned with the Xbox presence in Japan.
Which I think should be a non issue.

If a Japanese company is going to go through the trouble of localizing a game to English, unless they're getting money to do so from Sony, ignoring the Xbox for a Western release (even if it's digital only) is ignoring money.

There's no way to spin it otherwise.

If your attempt as a company is to sell to as many gamers as possible, ignoring an underserved segment of gamers on Microsoft's platform is a good way to ensure you won't ever reach those customer's wallets.

They should get over this impetous of needing to sell a physical copy and test the digital waters.
 

Oregano

Member
Yes. Now try reading the rest of the posts where I don't have a good outlook on the rest of the series sales either. You continue to argue against arguments I haven't made.

So you are in fact saying that the vast majority of the series has bombed in the west?

Its not even true that there has been a marked decline since Vesperia either. Xillia outsold it and when you add Steam so did Zestiria and Berseria.
 
What would that factor be? 100% of the sales on steam are digital. There are games on consoles that are digital only and have similar sales numbers as steam.

Not to mention the costs to port goes way down when you don't have to have a physical print, specially if you already have a PC version.
Not every game sells to the same market. You can't point to a western indie game on Steam and PSN and say 'look, sales are similar on PS4 and Steam' and expect that to hold for a niche Japanese release. Consumers of niche Japanese games have different expectations than your average Steam or PS4 user.
 
A lot of people like physical releases, I know I do once in awhile. You think they should just stop now and make everyone have to download games?

It's not about they stopping to release games in discs, but if it's not viable to release discs to one platform go digital only?

I mean, they are already doing that, as PC is no longer a viable platform for game discs and thus they release their games digitally on Steam. Why not follow suite on a console? Seems a bit short sighted.
 

Nephtes

Member
A lot of people like physical releases, I know I do once in awhile. You think they should just stop now and make everyone have to download games?

Suppose you're an Xbox only owner... If your choice is to buy a game you want digitally because that's the only way it's available or not play it at all... Which is the obvious choice?

If needing a base order of physical copies is the only things keeping the Xbox from getting a Western release of localized Japanese games... Well that's just stupid.

I'd rather the Xbox got a purchasable version rather than no version at all.
 
MS actually made an effort last gen and it showed in the kinds of games they received, and the sales they achieved with the 360.

This time, they clearly could not be bothered.

A console that won't even reach 100,000 units sold. Less than what the Switch is capable of selling in one week.

It's pathetic really.
 

Battlechili

Banned
Because these are not the types of japanese games Microsoft is not looking for maybe?

header.jpg
NIS' library is much bigger than Criminal Girls you know
Plus maybe some people interested in that game would rather play it on Xbox One rather than on Vita/PC for some reason. Ideally, every game would be on every platform so consumers would just be able to have complete control as to how they play their games.
 
So you are in fact saying that the vast majority of the series has bombed in the west?

Its not even true that there has been a marked decline since Vesperia either. Xillia outsold it and when you add Steam so did Zestiria and Berseria.

Well, part of me was talking about the series and part of the post was talking about NA. But hey, you do you. But since I think we are gonna go around in circles in an attempt to get you to read my posts, so I'm out. Have at it arguing against stuff I haven't said. Should be fun.

It's not about they stopping to release games in discs, but if it's not viable to release discs to one platform go digital only?

I mean, they are already doing that, as PC is no longer a viable platform for game discs and thus they release their games digitally on Steam. Why not follow suite on a console? Seems a bit short sighted.

Seems short sighted says person who has continously demonstrated a lack of sales knowledge.
 
MS actually made an effort last gen and it showed in the kinds of games they received, and the sales they achieved with the 360.

This time, they clearly could not be bothered.

A console that won't even reach 100,000 units sold. Less than what the Switch is capable of selling in one week.

It's pathetic really.

What sales? Japan sales? lol

It was always a no win situation. If the only way to grab Japan's attention is to keep sending them money then it's never gonna work out.
 
I mean, the quote of mine wasn't posing the question to you, it was posed to the person who ignored my question.

Your own response was overtly concerned with the Xbox presence in Japan.
Which I think should be a non issue.

If a Japanese company is going to go through the trouble of localizing a game to English, unless they're getting money to do so from Sony, ignoring the Xbox for a Western release (even if it's digital only) is ignoring money.

There's no way to spin it otherwise.

If your attempt as a company is to sell to as many gamers as possible, ignoring an underserved segment of gamers on Microsoft's platform is a good way to ensure you won't ever reach those customer's wallets.

They should get over this impetous of needing to sell a physical copy and test the digital waters.
I already explained this to you, but I will do so again. Localization is not the same as porting a game to a different platform. Just because a company has the capability to localize a game does not mean they have the capability to port the game to Xbox. For example, XSEED has 1 programmer on staff. They aren't porting any games themselves, nor are NISA or Atlus USA or Aksys. What they do is contract a small porting studio to port the game for them. This is EXPENSIVE for a small localization company, a company that has already spent money acquiring the rights to localize the game in question from the Japanese developer or publisher. And at this stage in the process, the localization company has made no money on the game yet. Localization companies have only recently started to contract ports to PC, and we've yet to see if this is a recipe for success. These companies cannot afford to port to PC and Xbox simultaneously. So you want them to not port to PC, and port to Xbox instead? A lot of these companies have a proven market for their titles on PC, but not for Xbox. They are already taking a big risk, and you want them to take an even bigger one? Hopefully you can see why that isn't a reasonable decision for these companies.
 

Mozendo

Member
To be fair, 5pb, Experience, and to some extent CAVE, were treated pretty well given their feedback about Microsoft of Japan.
Yup, would want to know more what these companies have to say about as to why they keep supporting Xbox in Japan, although I think experience has said Microsoft helps with the development cost? can't remember.

Anywho this seems like a slow news day type of article.
 
Because the PS3 versions sold a lot more in Japan?

I imagine when the future games came out, they sold good enough in the west for on PS3 them to continue to bother.

Sadly XBox owners blew their chances.

Oh and the thing about Graces, the reason why it sold less than Vesperia was probably be people really didn’t like it not in small part due to some massive game breaking issues I remember vaguely.
 
What sales? Japan sales? lol

It was always a no win situation. If the only way to grab Japan's attention is to keep sending them money then it's never gonna work out.

1.6m x360 vs 80,000 xbo

Far less years, but the One won't ever reach 100,000. Ridiculously huge drop.

Of course, 1.6m is nothing in the grand scheme of things, but they effectively just abandoned whatever little they had built there.
 

Nephtes

Member
I already explained this to you, but I will do so again. Localization is not the same as porting a game to a different platform. Just because a company has the capability to localize a game does not mean they have the capability to port the game to Xbox. For example, XSEED has 1 programmer on staff. They aren't porting any games themselves, nor are NISA or Atlus USA or Aksys. What they do is contract a small porting studio to port the game for them. This is EXPENSIVE for a small localization company, a company that has already spent money acquiring the rights to localize the game in question from the Japanese developer or publisher. And at this stage in the process, the localization company has made no money on the game yet. Localization companies have only recently started to contract ports to PC, and we've yet to see if this is a recipe for success. These companies cannot afford to port to PC and Xbox simultaneously. So you want them to not port to PC, and port to Xbox instead? A lot of these companies have a proven market for their titles on PC, but not for Xbox. They are already taking a big risk, and you want them to take an even bigger one? Hopefully you can see why that isn't a reasonable decision for these companies.

If they do a port to PC, an Xbox port is a hop, skip, and a jump away comparatively. I mean, it's not the flip of a switch and changing the value in a drop-down list box to "compile for Xbox", but if you've done the work for PC and Steam, going to Xbox is a lot easier than going from PS4 to PC.
Certainly easier than PS3 to X360 was...
 
If they do a port to PC, an Xbox port is a hop, skip, and a jump away comparatively. I mean, it's not the flip of a switch and changing the value in a drop-down list box to "compile for Xbox", but if you've done the work for PC and Steam, going to Xbox is a lot easier than going from PS4 to PC.
Certainly easier than PS3 to X360 was...

He’s literally telling you it’s too expensive to do both at once.
 

Stanng243

Member
If they do a port to PC, an Xbox port is a hop, skip, and a jump away comparatively. I mean, it's not the flip of a switch and changing the value in a drop-down list box to "compile for Xbox", but if you've done the work for PC and Steam, going to Xbox is a lot easier than going from PS4 to PC.
Certainly easier than PS3 to X360 was...

I'm curious, where are you getting this from?
 
Not every game sells to the same market. You can't point to a western indie game on Steam and PSN and say 'look, sales are similar on PS4 and Steam' and expect that to hold for a niche Japanese release. Consumers of niche Japanese games have different expectations than your average Steam or PS4 user.

That's not what I'm saying though. All I'm saying is that there are at least a potential big enough base that buys digital only games be it on steam or consoles. And they are acknowledging that for steam, but ignoring for console.
 
MS actually made an effort last gen and it showed in the kinds of games they received, and the sales they achieved with the 360.

This time, they clearly could not be bothered.

A console that won't even reach 100,000 units sold. Less than what the Switch is capable of selling in one week.

It's pathetic really.

That effort only lasted a couple of years though, up until they got the big Japanese franchises, the few games they attracted bombed (leaving those publishers in poor shape) and it became apparent the Japanese console market was in heavy decline. After that they stopped giving a shit and things turned to shit again, which eventually led them into the position they are now.

Anyway, this news is no surprise at all to anyone who was paying attention. It'd take a hell of a lot more than a couple trips to Japan by Phil Spencer to change anything in this regard. The idea those trips were going to change anything is parody at this point.
 
Top Bottom