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[Kinitari]

So this is something I've been following for a while, mostly do to all my reading of www.sciencebasedmedicine.com and it's (what I'll call) 'sister blogs'.

So, there's this blogger by the name of the Food Babe, who you may have heard of - maybe not. Basically however, she's a successful activist who has been behind the removal of particular chemicals in foods - one of the most well known examples is the removal of azodicarbonamide from subway sandwich breads, where she proclaims it's use in things like yoga mats make it inedible.

Anyway, she has her critics, and they seem to be growing. Recently there was an article by the NYT that, while mild, seemed pretty critical of her and her actions - citing a lot of her well known criticisms and making her seem... lets say, well meaning but naive.

This actually prompted a pretty long reply from her (she doesn't do this often), and she seems like she's ready to throw down, calling the article a hatchet job.

There is a pretty prominent science blogger/doctor who has been consistently critical of all things woo, who is even cited in both of these articles and is always ready to write long well cited blog posts, he replied to this as well. He also often writes for sciencedbasedmedicine.

These three posts are really just a drop in the bucket, as this back and forth has exists for a very long time, and has grown to include many many more writers. However what seems to be finally happening is that there seems to be a more 'mainstream' bit of criticism of her and her work, and it makes me happy. I don't like the stuff she says or the influence she has, so seeing her get slowly taken down, methodically and with many a source is a very good thing in my books.

I don't want to get quote heavy, as all of these links are good reading, however if you want the most summarized version, just read the last link from scienceblogs.com - it sort of goes through the timeline of these recent events. Just to highlight the sort of things she says to drive the point home, here is one quote:

n another much-mocked post, “Food Babe Travel Essentials — No Reason to Panic on the Plane!” Ms. Hari criticized the air on an airplane. Because of cost concerns, the air “pumped in isn’t pure oxygen, either, it’s mixed with nitrogen, sometimes at almost 50 percent,” she wrote. Except ambient air isn’t pure oxygen, either. It’s roughly 78 percent nitrogen. The widely discredited post, where Ms. Hari also complained about the flight attendants’ stinginess with water in first class, was removed swiftly.

In an interview, Ms. Hari said she didn’t remember the post, which Mr. Cook brought up by name. She then said it would have disappeared from the blog because it was old. Weeks later, in an email, she admitted that it had been removed because of mistakes, and said that she planned to start noting when she clarified or corrected posts.

So what do you guys think? Is the Food Babe doing the Food Lord's work? Is she a hack? Is she well meaning? What do chemicals in your food make YOU feel?

 

[Patryn]

She's a hack out for attention. It's clear that she has very little actual knowledge about the topics she's talking about.

I feel like she's kind of riding the whole anti-science wave that's currently en vogue, but with a weirdly pseudo-scientific bent.

 

[Trojita]

She isn't a scientist or expert in anything. The fight she has is a worthy one, to get potentially harmful products out of our food, but she blindly goes about it without actually looking at research. She has a delusion that is making her a lot of money.

 

[Zukkoyaki]

My girlfriend is a registered dietitian, has a master's degree and a prestigious internship under her belt.

She and all of her colleagues HATE people like FoodBabe because all of her statements are based on either half truths or complete bullshit. Ask anyone within the realm of actual science and research and they will tell you the same.

I remember one particular rant my girlfriend and one of her friends (also a dietitian) went on. Basically, they explained that people and bloggers like FoodBabe are dangerous. They spread lies and bullshit for nothing more than personal gain. For whatever reason, some people would rather listen to one single website than the entire academic community.

Fun fact: If someone ever calls themself a "nutritionist", take what they say with a grain of salt. Nutritionist means they aren't properly educated and certified. You have to pass certain tests to be a dietitian much like a lawyer has to and such.

 

[Mudcrab]

The complaint about the air being pumped in airplanes not being 100% oxygen is amazing.

 

[marrec]

There obviously isn't much to be said about Vani Hari that hasn't already been said elsewhere and better. The Orac article you linked is especially vicious and succinct in its criticisms of her methods and her writings.

The problem is, despite all of this, she continues to be cited as an authority by both main stream media and fringe bloggers. It's infuriating to see good, decent, and ignorant people swindled by links on Facebook and daytime CNN bullshit. People don't like scientific names and/or terms in relation to their food and she's taking full advantage of that bias to make money.

That's all. She's a devious and malicious fraud who would kill hundreds of people with any amount of her bullshit just to get paid. Fuck her and people like her.

 

[Leunam]

I tend to assume most of these people that run these kinds of blogs are well meaning, they just go about it with a complete misunderstanding of the science behind GMOs and the like.

 

[Fury451]

She isn't a scientist or expert in anything. The fight she has is a worthy one, to get potentially harmful products out of our food, but she blindly goes about it without actually looking at research.

Absolutely. I have friends who Facebook post stuff like this all the time.

Hence the idea of well-meaning, but naive. Even straight ignorant. Unfortunately that combination can cause more harm via misinformation than any net positives.

 

[The Lamp]

Didn't the FDA prove that azodicarbonamide was harmless in the Subway bread but dumbass ignorant food critics pressured Subway to remove it anyway?

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/06/health/subway-bread-chemical/

Food ignorance is one of the biggest obstacles to food companies designing products.

 

[Trojita]

Like other outspoken women, Ms. Hari has her share of online attacks that are at times obscene, misogynistic and frightening. (Her brother requested anonymity to avoid these aggressive critics.) “My friends say, ‘How are you going to get through it?’ ” she said. “And I just kind of laugh and say: ‘I’ll be like Taylor Swift. I’ll just kind of shake it off.’ ”

She does not often engage directly even with those offering thoughtful criticism, instead blocking them from her Facebook page, which has more than 930,000 likes. One “Banned by Food Babe” Facebook group has nearly 6,000 members; another has nearly 700. Ms. Hari said people are only blocked for obscenities, but Dr. Schwarcz, who is among the banned (though not a Facebook group member), said he merely questioned her credentials.

As for those credentials, Ms. Hari said that chemistry shouldn’t be necessary to decipher what to eat. She pointed out that her undergraduate major was actually in the College of Engineering at the University of North Carolina, Charlotte, so she took “hard science, oh my gosh, Physics 3, Calculus 3.” Asked how she liked them, she said, “I mean, who likes those?”

I'm just going to go ahead and judge that anyone that quotes Taylor Swift is probably a douchebag.

Also that last paragraph, the fuck!?

 

[Wilsongt]

She's anti vaccine and attacked Starbucks for their Pumpkin Spice Latte. She tries to scar people by using SCARY CHEMICAL NAMES without any knowledge of what they are.

 

[Leunam]

Didn't the FDA prove that azodicarbonamide was harmless in the Subway bread but dumbass ignorant food critics pressured Subway to remove it anyway?

The argument is that if it's not good for you or it's not natural then it shouldn't be in our food.

Too broad a statement for my tastes.

 

[Fury451]

She's anti vaccine and attacked Starbucks for their Pumpkin Spice Latte. She tries to scar people by using SCARY CHEMICAL NAMES without any knowledge of what they are.

Ah, so straight ignorant in every regard then.

Will continue to ignore.

The argument is that if it's not good for you or it's not natural then it shouldn't be in our food.

Too broad a statement for my tastes.

Hemlock is naturally occurring too.

 

[Jackben]

The complaint about the air being pumped in airplanes not being 100% oxygen is amazing.

lmao

 

[Verdre]

If she didn't even attempt to get a basic understanding of what the air we breathe is before raging against it then I think it's safe to say you'd have to be a bit crazy to listen to her on food topics which she is likely just as unqualified to comment on.

 

[CornBurrito]

The argument is that if it's not good for you or it's not natural then it shouldn't be in our food.

Too broad a statement for my tastes.

The definition of the word natural is so atrociously dumb. Just because it is synthesized in a lab does not make it unnatural, unless you want to assert that humans aren't part of the natural world. In which case, grab your Bible and get ready to deny evolutionary theory. This is probably a position that will get laughed at, but a multi-story skyscraper is just as natural as a beaver dam to me. Because humans are part of the natural world, and thus anything we do or anything derived from our actions is natural.

 

[diggmcbadass]

She makes claims without doing research and bases her writing on a combination of click bait and fear mongering and refuses to engage in debate with people who are actual experts in the fields she writes about. She's the most dangerous kind of idiot.

 

[entremet]

The Food Babe is a master marketer.

The problem with modern science its is lack of embracing social media and marketing, so we have hucksters taking their place.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

There obviously isn't much to be said about Vani Hari that hasn't already been said elsewhere and better. The Orac article you linked is especially vicious and succinct in its criticisms of her methods and her writings.

The problem is, despite all of this, she continues to be cited as an authority by both main stream media and fringe bloggers. It's infuriating to see good, decent, and ignorant people swindled by links on Facebook and daytime CNN bullshit. People don't like scientific names and/or terms in relation to their food and she's taking full advantage of that bias to make money.

That's all. She's a devious and malicious fraud who would kill hundreds of people with any amount of her bullshit just to get paid. Fuck her and people like her.

Yup. Can't stand people like her. Blithering idiots, maliciously and wilfully ignorant, harmful to society, reality-denying, the whole deal.

 

[marrec]

The Food Babe is a master marketer.

The problem with modern science its is lack of embracing social media and marketing, so we have hucksters taking their place.

There was an interview on the most recent Skeptics Guide to the Universe that spells out just why modern scientists are leary of open communication with the public.

Basically, they get targeted by anti-science groups for their public and private communications and it's picked through for any instance of seeming impropriety to poison the well on their expertise and the issues they evangelize.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

She's a hack out for attention. It's clear that she has very little actual knowledge about the topics she's talking about.

I feel like she's kind of riding the whole anti-science wave that's currently en vogue, but with a weirdly pseudo-scientific bent.

Yeah, that's pretty much a perfect evaluation. She's a hack that is stretching out her 15 minutes of fame as long as possible with gimmicky claims at this point.

 

[RuGalz]

I think it goes both ways. She may be naive at times and not do enough research but otoh there are a lot of scientific research that are biased one way or the other, or good researches not being done or released due to various unthinkable reasons. Both are dangerous in my opinion.

 

[Patryn]

The craziest bit about the oxygen complaint is that a plane that had 100 percent oxygen being pumped into it would be MASSIVELY dangerous. It wouldn't be difficult to just incinerate all the passengers.

 

[entremet]

There was an interview on the most recent Skeptics Guide to the Universe that spells out just why modern scientists are leary of open communication with the public.

Basically, they get targeted by anti-science groups for their public and private communications and it's picked through for any instance of seeming impropriety to poison the well on their expertise and the issues they evangelize.

It does a huge disservice to public discourse, especially in America, where scientific literacy is low and marketers just fill the void. Look at the vaccine nonsense. Only in America.

 

[Aureon]

Throughly fuck loud-shouting populists who know NOTHING of what they're shouting.

I remember an university inviting her to speak, and the professor of food science lamenting it'd take years to undo the damage she managed to do in a speech.

Didn't the FDA prove that azodicarbonamide was harmless in the Subway bread but dumbass ignorant food critics pressured Subway to remove it anyway?

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/06/health/subway-bread-chemical/

Food ignorance is one of the biggest obstacles to food companies designing products.

Yeah.

I think it goes both ways. She may be naive at times and not do enough research but otoh there are a lot of scientific research that are biased one way or the other, or good researches not being done or released due to various unthinkable reasons. Both are dangerous in my opinion.

Take that false equivalence somewhere else.
Research MAY be flawed.
Loud shouts based on nothing ARE flawed.

 

[Jackben]

I think it goes both ways. She may be naive at times and not do enough research but otoh there are a lot of scientific research that are biased one way or the other, or good researches not being done or released due to various unthinkable reasons. Both are dangerous in my opinion.

False equivalence. But I'll humor you anyway. Your premise that some research is biased or being held back for dubious reasons may have merit. But someone with intelligence and integrity is needed to investigate those claims and it is painfully apparent "The Food Babe" embodies the antithesis of both these attributes, and is therefore worthy of nothing but ridicule.

 

[Robotguy]

The complaint about the air being pumped in airplanes not being 100% oxygen is amazing.

Oh wow.
Lol.

 

[BKatastrophe]

Like other outspoken women, Ms. Hari has her share of online attacks that are at times obscene, misogynistic and frightening. (Her brother requested anonymity to avoid these aggressive critics.) “My friends say, ‘How are you going to get through it?’ ” she said. “And I just kind of laugh and say: ‘I’ll be like Taylor Swift. I’ll just kind of shake it off.’ ”

She does not often engage directly even with those offering thoughtful criticism, instead blocking them from her Facebook page, which has more than 930,000 likes. One “Banned by Food Babe” Facebook group has nearly 6,000 members; another has nearly 700. Ms. Hari said people are only blocked for obscenities, but Dr. Schwarcz, who is among the banned (though not a Facebook group member), said he merely questioned her credentials.

As for those credentials, Ms. Hari said that chemistry shouldn’t be necessary to decipher what to eat. She pointed out that her undergraduate major was actually in the College of Engineering at the University of North Carolina, Charlotte, so she took “hard science, oh my gosh, Physics 3, Calculus 3.” Asked how she liked them, she said, “I mean, who likes those?”

I'm just going to go ahead and judge that anyone that quotes Taylor Swift is probably a douchebag.

Also that last paragraph, the fuck!?

Even better that it says her brother requested anonymity. Doesn't it being said that he is her brother automatically make it not anonymous?

 

[battousai11]

From the end of the NYT article:

“If you’re going to pick apart every little sentence I’ve written ,” she said, her voice trailing off. She added of her critics, “They have to dig so far and deep to find something to make me look crazy because what I’m saying now is so sane and is so real.”

Yet she deletes posts that have been refuted.

 

[DOWN]

The complaint about the air being pumped in airplanes not being 100% oxygen is amazing.

 

[Patryn]

It does a huge disservice to public discourse, especially in America, where scientific literacy is low and marketers just fill the void. Look at the vaccine nonsense. Only in America.

The problem in the US isn't just that scientific literacy is low, it's that there's active campaigns out to discredit science. Scientific knowledge is increasingly being seen as something negative and to be distrusted.

After all the US government is currently putting politicians who oppose science directly in charge of scientific institutions and funding for the express purpose dismantling them. All because of the pesky fact that science (and reality) impede either their beliefs or their ability to make money.

 

[bchamba]

I laugh every time I read about chemicals in our food while I drink a liter of H2O

 

[ReAxion]

I don't think you can call her well-meaning at all when she's just out hunting witches.

 

[140.85]

It looks as if her response to criticism from scientists is always the CONFLICT OF INTEREST card. As if once a scientist advises industry they're tainted forever and anything they say in invalidated.

 

[TheOMan]

Very clearly a hack, who doesn't know enough to be dangerous, and yet still is.

The Food Babe is a master marketer.

The problem with modern science its is lack of embracing social media and marketing, so we have hucksters taking their place.

This is accurate.

Edit:

Oh, and she's an anti-vaxxer? Welp.

 

[ScottSullivan]

Fascinating article, I'd seen the things about Subway and Beaver Butts and thought they were bullshit but I didn't know that all this stuff was coming from one person. She real is the Jenny Mcarthy of Food like the NYT Article says.

 

[RuGalz]

Take that false equivalence somewhere else.
Research MAY be flawed.
Loud shouts based on nothing ARE flawed.

Both have similar result of making us believe in something that is incorrect. The difference is that she's louder and is easier to follow for the mainstream thus have larger and quicker effect.

False equivalence. But I'll humor you anyway. Your premise that some research is biased or being held back for dubious reasons may have merit. But someone with intelligence and integrity is needed to investigate those claims and it is painfully apparent "The Food Babe" embodies the antithesis of both these attributes, and is therefore worthy of nothing but ridicule.

As I said above, and I understand why you guys are calling it false equivalency. However the end result is the same, feeding me false information. So from my point of view, it's equivalent. I'm not implying that her and scientific researches have the same credibility.

 

[cheststrongwell]

Come to my website, fooderduder.com, to find out why scientists HATE me.

 

[lazygecko]

I'm with her completely. I think we should ban DNA from our food products.

 

[PhantomHound]

Sounds like one of those people that would oppose dihydrogen monoxide in water.

 

[marrec]

I'm with her completely. I think we should ban DNA from our food products.

Dont' worry, if you microwave your foods it will break down the DNA into harmless proteins.

Hungryman Meals are super healthy.

 

[Opiate]

Vani Hari's empire is built on a fairly ubiquitous impulse; we are often afraid of things we don't understand, and that fear is compound when we're talking about things we're going to eat.

When people learn that they are eating potassium benzoate, they panic; I don't know what this is! Is it bad? Oh my god! That impulse is being exploited by many groups, including Vari Hari but also including anti-vaccinations and many other diet gurus.

 

[Stet]

The Food Babe is a master marketer.

The problem with modern science its is lack of embracing social media and marketing, so we have hucksters taking their place.

The problem with modern science is that the only thing it has on its side is the truth, which is boring. People on the other side can lie and lie and lie and lie and lie with little recourse, and lies are exciting.

 

[Nabbis]

While i like the idea of giving critique for having potentially dangerous chemicals in food, the science behind the metabolic reactions is far too complex for me to make accurate judgement and potential research could be made with questionable methodology.(Not intentionally) Basically, i stay the fuck away from this until there's a more mainstream academic perception on what is harmful.

 

[xsarien]

She's a complete hack. She has zero training in nutrition, diet, medicine, or any level of chemistry. According to NPR she's a former "consultant" who has training in computer science.

Her basic argument - that we need more transparency in food labels and maybe we need to take a second look at all the preservatives that go into processed food is good - and shared - by many. But the cases she raises are often vague, born of ignorance, and just rise to the level of general fear-mongering.

People should absolutely strive to eat stuff that's as minimally processed (like TV dinners and Mac and Cheese, not something like a freshly made sausage, which can be technically called "processed" as well) as possible, but being the Jenny McCarthy of the food world isn't going to do anyone any favors.

 

[Leunam]

Dont' worry, if you microwave your foods it will break down the DNA into harmless proteins.

Hungryman Meals are super healthy.

I thought microwaves make food worse for you by mutating it or some shit.

WHICH IS IT?

Or am I thinking of microwaved water from that groundbreaking fourth grade science experiment...

 

[AdventureMike]

She's anti vaccine

I know all I need to know about this woman.

 

[marrec]

I thought microwaves make food worse for you by mutating it or some shit.

WHICH IS IT?

Or am I thinking of microwaved water from that groundbreaking fourth grade science experiment...

You're thinking of the groundbreaking research by the 4th grade scientist who found that microwaving water can kill plants which is what I'm referencing as well because, you see, the Microwaves break down the Water's DNA!

*dramatic music*

 

[Leunam]

People should absolutely strive to eat stuff that's as minimally processed (like TV dinners and Mac and Cheese, not something like a freshly made sausage, which can be technically called "processed" as well) as possible, but being the Jenny McCarthy of the food world isn't going to do anyone any favors.

The term "processed" is another thing I take issue with. It's far too generic and doesn't speak about what part of the processing is so bad.

We have processes for canned tomatoes, which many people prefer because they are about as fresh as they can be right off the vine. We have flash frozen vegetables, which helps maintain freshness in much the same way. We have a process for isolating chickens before being cleared for butchering, to ensure antibiotics used while they are being raised are no longer present in their system at time of sale.

Rather than saying "avoid processed food" people should be saying "avoid foods that have gone through this specific process."

 

[Deleted member 13876]

Look at the vaccine nonsense. Only in America.

Unfortunately that is no longer the case.