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NPD December 2011 Sales Results [Up5: Star Wars: The Old Republic Sales]

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
In order for your original point of this generation representing minimal growth over last gen, all we have to do is

-ignore handhelds
-ignore digital distro
-ignore apple

None of this is being ignored, his entire point is that the at-disc home console retail industry is what's being negatively impacted. Saying "Look at the buckets of cash being made from other forms of gaming" is proving his point.
 

Opiate

Member
Any reason why you're not including handhelds in the discussion?

Mostly because it's at a generational transition (which makes analysis confusing -- do we talk about 3DS/Vita even though there is very little data thus far and Vita hasn't even launched in all territories yet? Or do we discuss DS/PSP, even though those might now be considered "last generation"?) and I assumed I had enough examples to make my point clear.

If we leave the 3DS/Vita out for now because we don't know what will happen with them yet (3DS signs were at first discouraging, now appear more encouraging), then the DS generation saw an approximate 2.5x increase in unit sales over the generation prior.

That is real and very significant growth, and is another great example of how comparatively stagnant the home console ecosystem is.

None of this is being ignored, his entire point is that the at-disc home console retail industry is what's being negatively impacted. Saying "Look at the buckets of cash being made from other forms of gaming" is proving his point.

Yes -- I even specifically linked to information which showed how well iOS and Steam were doing in my original post in this thread, for example. Those were facts intended to support my position. I'm assuming my argument must have been worded improperly, as it seems to have confused several people (although others have responded with clear and reasonable rebuttals, like Kswiston).
 

AniHawk

Member
If Xbox Next comes out in fall 2013, what are the chances that MS price drops the 360 to less than $200 to get one last holiday surge out of it?

pretty high. $179.99 would be appreciated. hell, $149.99 would be pretty awesome to see happen for all three systems.

i bought the n64 at $129.99 in 1998. the console wasn't even two years old. and at that point, all three systems were at that price or lower. last gen the ps2 was $149.99 about 5 years after it came out (i think?). can't remember if there was a price drop to coincide with the pstwo release.

we're six years into the generation and only one console is $149.99. kinda sucks. the games are dropping in price faster than last gen (from what i can recall), so i guess that makes up for it. however, quickly-discounted software is probably a more worrying sign.
 

Cipherr

Member
None of this is being ignored, his entire point is that the at-disc home console retail industry is what's being negatively impacted. Saying "Look at the buckets of cash being made from other forms of gaming" is proving his point.

Wait, so does this mean that Handheld gaming is thriving then? I don't even know how to keep track of what is dying due to smartphones or whatever anymore.
 

Opiate

Member
Wait, so does this mean that Handheld gaming is thriving then? I don't even know how to keep track of what is dying due to smartphones or whatever anymore.

As I said in my last post, that's specifically why I left handheld gaming out. Or rather, I left dedicated handheld gaming out.

The DS/PSP represents an approximate 2.5 fold increase over the generation prior to that. That's enormous growth. However, we've now entered a new generation that has far less data, so it's difficult to say what will happen, and I think most reasonable people agree that some ground will be ceded to the iOS/Android revolution -- machines which are also portables, just not dedicated ones.

Which means that portable gaming is very likely to continue growing, but not necessarily the dedicated portable gaming subsector. It's still worth talking about, but my point was broad enough in scope without including another bullet point to sqaubble over.
 

Hero

Member
Why are we talking about iOS/Android/Facebook growth as its going to be the savior for gaming? It's easy to be the biggest growth factor when you're going from a presence of absolute zero to anything since there's basis for comparison previously. While there's additional revenue to be had in those platforms how many developers are making their bread and butter exclusively on those platforms? I certainly wouldn't count on that target audience anyway, they're the most fickle with games and likely to get bored and just stop instead of finding an alternative.

You can't make a direct comparison between the PS2/GCN/XBX generation and this one because the environments surrounding the two generations are completely different and would require analysis that goes beyond mere speculation and I'm sure no one here is going to invest in properly to make a definitive statement. If the global economy wasn't so bad and we saw price cuts for the 360 and Wii I don't think we'd be having this discussion at all.
 

duk

Banned
pretty high. $179.99 would be appreciated. hell, $149.99 would be pretty awesome to see happen for all three systems.

i bought the n64 at $129.99 in 1998. the console wasn't even two years old. and at that point, all three systems were at that price or lower. last gen the ps2 was $149.99 about 5 years after it came out (i think?). can't remember if there was a price drop to coincide with the pstwo release.

we're six years into the generation and only one console is $149.99. kinda sucks. the games are dropping in price faster than last gen (from what i can recall), so i guess that makes up for it. however, quickly-discounted software is probably a more worrying sign.

Prices stil high cuz demand is (maybe was now) there. MS has said they want to hit $99 but prob didn't expect the kinect factor in the beginning to extend 360 this much.

sales for the next 6 months will play a big role, if they dip big time compared to last year then we'll see price drops across the board. im hoping so because i feel prices are way too high for all 3 consoles. dont even get me started about handheld prices. lol
 

see5harp

Member
I really think MS is positioned to price drop to $150 first. I don't know how much an arcade SKU costs to produce but I gotta think they would be gravy even at that price with healthy accessory and XBLA point profits.
 
Any reason as to why Nintendo isn't making a press release? You would think given the sales of the Wii ( 2nd place ) and the 3DS ( higher sales than november ) that they would give a press release!
 

Lynn616

Member
How much can the 3 home consoles price drop and still be profitable? Any guesses on what the final prices will be for the Wii, 360 and PS3?
 

kswiston

Member
Any reason as to why Nintendo isn't making a press release? You would think given the sales of the Wii ( 2nd place ) and the 3DS ( higher sales than november ) that they would give a press release!

Wii sales are down over 50% from last year. DS sales are down even more. 3DS is the only bright spot, and they made their press release before the NPD data was published.

How much can the 3 home consoles price drop and still be profitable? Any guesses on what the final prices will be for the Wii, 360 and PS3?

Wii - $129
360 - $129-149
PS3 - $149-179

There will be clearance sales that bring prices lower, but I doubt that any of the consoles will hit $99 MSRP. Maybe Wii.
 

Cromat

Member
The reason this generation is underperforming is mainly due to price. The PS3 and Xbox 360 launched at incredibly expensive prices and confusing SKUs. The majority of console sales in the last generations occurred in the sub-$200 price range, and the two HD systems are still not quite there 6 years later, when much of the novelty has already worn off. The Wii was reasonably priced and so did very well.

If PS3 and Xbox 360 reached $200 three years ago we they would have had much better results.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
The most interesting thing about this NPD for me is confirmation that Skylanders is actually a big deal. Certainly a lot of folks looked at the state of their local Toys R Us store and noticed that something was going on, but we didn't have any actual numbers. The confirmation that with everything put together this franchise is creating a lot of revenue for Activision is really important, as ATVI now potentially has another big franchise to work with aside from CoD, and furthermore, this is one they created themselves and not something they brought in from outside.

It's going to be really interesting next holiday season to see how ATVI handles the franchise. Whether it'll end up being a one holiday fad gift, or whether they can transform this success into something lasting.
 

kswiston

Member
The reason this generation is underperforming is mainly due to price. The PS3 and Xbox 360 launched at incredibly expensive prices and confusing SKUs. The majority of console sales in the last generations occurred in the sub-$200 price range, and the two HD systems are still not quite there 6 years later, when much of the novelty has already worn off. The Wii was reasonably priced and so did very well.

If PS3 and Xbox 360 reached $200 three years ago we they would have had much better results.

This ignores the fact that over 50M HD consoles have been sold (to customers) in the US. How many PS2s and Xboxes do you think were sold in the US before the prices dropped to $200? The answer is a great deal fewer than 50M. In fact, the answer is closer to 10M. Xbox dropped to $200 6 months after launch. PS2 dropped to $200 18 months after launch. Of course most of the sales happened after that point

When this gen finally wraps up, I think that 360 and the Wii will be within 20% of each other LTD, so you can't really point to one doing amazingly and the other doing subpar.
 

Dalthien

Member
How is it fair to compare PS3/360 sales to PS2/Xbox sales over the course of the entire generation? You can't ignore the fact that the PS2 was the console of choice for younger children and very casual gamers, many of which went to the Wii which you are discounting (and tablets/smartphones) this generation.
Opiate pretty much already covered me on this, but my point wasn't to try to separate core/casual or whatever. I used the term 'core' (a term which I hate) because that seems to be GAF's word of choice for distinguishing Nintendo from the HD Twins.

You are absolutely correct that PS2 had a segment which was a casual audience, and now 360 has built a segment there as well with all the Kinects sold the past couple holidays. The demographics are irrelevant to the point. The point was to compare the userbases which the publishers are targeting.

The publishers which GAF cares about (generalization) are EA, UbiSoft, Activision, THQ, Take 2, RockStar Games, Namco, Capcom, Konami, Square Enix, Sega, etc. And for the past two generations, these publishers have targeted PS2/XBox and PS3/360. For whatever reasons you want to go with, they ignored Gamecube and Wii. Their only efforts on Cube/Wii were lazy ports, spin-offs, party games, mini-games, dance/exercise, or lower-tier devs working on a new IP with a small budget. (The only real exceptions were Resident Evil 4 on Cube, and Epic Mickey on Wii - and Monster Hunter Tri, but that was pretty irrelevant for NPD discussion). All of their top studios, top mainline brands, top dev budgets, top marketing budgets - it all went to PS2/XBox and PS3/360.

That's why I illustrated that comparison, because in that context, for those publishers on home consoles, it has taken longer to get to the same userbase than it did last gen, but costs have risen significantly. Which again makes it pretty easy to see why so many studios have been closing down and why so many publishers have been bleeding money this gen. (The Japanese pubs were sheltered somewhat from the big losses because they were smart enough to branch off into major handheld development as well - something which the western pubs have just recently started dipping their toes into with mobile, but they are still a long, long way from actually committing some of their top dev teams and budgets to the mobile space).

Edit - And having the generation drag on longer can be a very good thing for MS/Sony/Nintendo. Generally speaking, late in the gen, the hardware is sold for a profit, the R&D costs have all been recouped, and 1st-party software and 3rd-party licensing is pretty much free money. But for the publishers, a gen that drags on isn't really as good as it may appear. The longer the gen drags on, the more churn there is in the userbase. People that got in early in the gen, and have gotten bored with playing the same version of the same games for the 3rd/4th/5th time, and they've just chucked the console on a shelf somewhere and moved on to other games - PC, 3DS, iOS, Facebook, whatever. The longer the gen drags on, the more churn you get every year, so the actual active userbase isn't anywhere near what the late gen numbers suggest, and the newer customers that come in every year are typically budget consumers. And those budget consumers now have a whole back-catalog of excellent games available at $15 or $20, and those are the games they end up buying. Not the shiny new $60 games the publishers are trying to sell.

Because it took longer for PS3/360 to get to the same point as PS2/XBox, the average userbase growth per year has been smaller this gen than last, and with the longer generation, the churn will also be a lot higher this gen.

So the publishers are looking at trying to drag this gen out even longer (even though this has been a horrible gen for most of them - and many of the newcomers to the gen now will be much more budget-conscious consumers), or try to spur on the advance of the next gen (where they are looking at pretty much the same userbase they've been selling to the past two gens, but with a real chance at significantly higher costs once more). Really, they need to either find a way to seriously cut costs, or they need to find a way to expand their market beyond the PS2/XBox - PS3/360 base).
 
Looking in to next generation: Epic and EA are both claiming that development costs will not go up, but I remain extremely skeptical. Development costs have gone up inside this generation, let alone at the generational jumping points. Further, both companies have obvious incentives to claim that costs will go down (Epic because they sell the Unreal engine, EA because they desperately want to convince investors that they've put their worst behind them).

I think it may be fair to say that overall costs for console development will go down, but that development costs of individual games will continue to go up. That is, each game costs more to make, but they are making less and less games, so the net expenditures are down.

But if outsourcing game development works that well, I may be wrong. The only way to know is to wait and watch third party R&D expenses over time.

Its most likely bullshit. Remember when Epic claimed that "Gears of War cost only $10 million to make?". It took years for people to see through that bullshit. It was incredibly obvious that something wasn't right when they didn't do the same claims for Gears 2 and 3. It turns out that most of Gears assets were done when creating Unreal 3. Do any of these environments or enemies look familiar? Also not the 2004 listing as well.

A two or so years from now. Epic will release a high end game using assets from (likely scaled down a bit) from the Samaritan demo and announced that they made their new IP for only $15 million... I think people need to face some facts that until some real sick technology gets adopted (due to hardware maturation/innovation) we may be stuck in a plateau for some time.
 

Vic

Please help me with my bad english
So I guess my earlier post about the Chinese worker strike thing being related was correct. They are shutting down a 360 production line which tells me that sales were unexpectedly low and the supply channel is overstuffed.
Link


Combined with the job postings looking for hardware engineers from the rumor thread, I'm starting to think all of the "no xbox anytime soon" stuff we have heard recently is just a smokescreen.
And I was going dismiss your prediction...
 

kswiston

Member
That's why I illustrated that comparison, because in that context, for those publishers on home consoles, it has taken longer to get to the same userbase than it did last gen, but costs have risen significantly. Which again makes it pretty easy to see why so many studios have been closing down and why so many publishers have been bleeding money this gen. (The Japanese pubs were sheltered somewhat from the big losses because they were smart enough to branch off into major handheld development as well - something which the western pubs have just recently started dipping their toes into mobile).

Japan skews your numbers. 360+PS3 hardware sales in the US are over 50M. Where was the PS2+Xbox in 2006? The HD consoles have taken a lot longer to build momentum than the PS2, but their late life sales are much stronger.

Software sales are obviously up. Looking at NPD software totals from 2002-2005, the software business was ~$5-6billion a year in the US (including handhelds). This generation it has hovered around $10billion. Accessory sales are way up.

The problem is that development studios have been poorly managed by publishers (and management teams) this generation. There is way too much waste in game development, and the publishers have been extremely slow to match market demands. There is obviously a lot of money to be made in AAA games. MW3, Skyrim, and BF3 made well over $2billion in less than a month between them. However, if a publisher can't afford the $50-100M marketing campaigns needed to launch these titles into the upper stratosphere of sales, they shouldn't be making them.
 

Dalthien

Member
Japan skews your numbers. 360+PS3 hardware sales in the US are over 50M. Where was the PS2+Xbox in 2006?

Ha ha, I had assumed that you had seen my previous post in the thread. My bad. I was only talking about NPD (U.S.) numbers.

Here's the original post: Then, go back and read my last post again, and you'll have a good idea of the point I'm making. Much of which has nothing at all to do with whether or not this is good or bad for MS/Sony/Nintendo or total numbers across the entire industry.

That's part of the problem though. Costs went way up this generation (for development), but the userbase is pretty much the same (actually even worse when factoring in how much longer this gen has lasted).

If we exclude Nintendo (since publishers certainly did - they bailed out big-time on the Cube, and they couldn't even bail out on Wii because they never showed up to begin with), then through the same time-frame:

PS2 (2000-2006) + XBox (2001-2006) ~ 51.2M
360 (2005-2011) + PS3 (2006-2011) ~ 52.6M


So 360+PS3 just finally pulled ahead this month. The problem with that is that the 360 had already been out for 2 holiday seasons and the PS3 was out for a holiday season already when we look at the PS2+XBox numbers. The only reason the PS3+360 numbers will show any growth at all from last gen is due to the generation itself lasting so much longer.

It looks like that 'core' home console userbase that publishers target hasn't really grown at all, yet costs keep rising higher and higher. Makes it pretty easy to see why there have been so many devs closed and so many losses on the balance sheets for pubs this gen. And it doesn't paint a rosy picture for a new gen with even higher costs, and the same old userbase to sell to.
 

jvm

Gamasutra.
We got Top 10 per-platform and Top 10 TTM (trailing 12 months) for Nintendo. Official thread for this is here. Public spreadsheet for charts:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtXhc02VTSWzdEZfdURDYkg3ZGN2R01IcW4tWHBhU0E&hl=en_US

Example: Top 10 Wii games in 2011 (NPD)
  1. Just Dance 3
  2. Just Dance 2
  3. Zumba Fitness
  4. Michael Jackson The Experience
  5. Mario Kart Wii
  6. New Super Mario Bros. Wii
  7. The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
  8. Donkey Kong Country Returns
  9. Skylanders Spyro's Adventure
  10. LEGO Star Wars III: The Saga Continues to Build
 

Opiate

Member
Software sales are obviously up. Looking at NPD software totals from 2002-2005, the software business was ~$5-6billion a year in the US (including handhelds). This generation it has hovered around $10billion.

I do not think this can be assumed, and might argue that software sales are down. Consider how the DS rarely had games in the top 10, yet routinely bested the Xbox 360 in software sales during its heyday because it had large numbers of titles selling moderate amounts, including Nintendo's "evergreen" titles.

The PS2 also had this phenomenon (that is, lots of smaller titles selling moderate amounts) similar to the DS and Wii. However, I think both the 360 and PS3 are much more top heavy. It is absolutely plausible for top title sales to go up significantly but total sales to go down as everything but those top titles dry up, and legs on legacy titles continue to grow shorter.

Accessory sales are way up.

Definitely agree.

The problem is that development studios have been poorly managed by publishers (and management teams) this generation. There is way too much waste in game development, and the publishers have been extremely slow to match market demands. There is obviously a lot of money to be made in AAA games. MW3, Skyrim, and BF3 made well over $2billion in less than a month between them. However, if a publisher can't afford the $50-100M marketing campaigns needed to launch these titles into the upper stratosphere of sales, they shouldn't be making them.

Here's the problem: if you can't afford to make those "blockbuster" games, then your revenue is going to be lower, and you're at risk of either being gobbled up or falling behind the product cost curve. All the big publishers now live off these titles: EA has pushed these "AAA" titles hard with Dead Space, Battlefield 3, SW:TOR, Mass Effect, and so forth; Activision is basically a CoD/Blizzard game machine; Take 2 rises and falls with GTA/Rockstar Games.

I would argue that these companies in particular have brought us to this point intentionally. This is a war of attrition. These publishers are deliberately raising the stakes so that the smaller companies ("small" being relative here, as even companies like Midway and THQ qualify) cannot possibly compete.

Look at THQ as a great example of this. If they can't make those AAA games, then they effectively can't make games on the PS3/360 at all, because those platforms are very top / blockbuster heavy. And THQ is a "traditional" gaming company that is accustomed to console-style development. They did not fare well on the Wii, and likely would not fare well on iOS or Facebook, either, because they just aren't built for that type of development. In other words, they were left without an obvious choice of platform, and it hurt them.

EA, Activision, Take 2, and Ubisoft have deliberately raised the stakes because they recognized what this would do to smaller companies from tiny upstart publishers to small but well known publishers like Majesco all the way up to very-big-but-not-quite-big-enough companies like THQ; they would either have to make 50 Million dollar games or they would lose. And most of them have indeed lost -- unable to finance games on the PS3/360 but also not really accustomed to the sorts of audiences the Wii, iOS, or Facebook attract. THQ is almost certainly going out of business, Eidos is subsumed, Midway is gone, and the number of publishers making console games continues to dwindle.

The rising development costs of games has severe downsides, obviously. But for EA/Take 2/Ubisoft/Activision, it also has the upside of eliminating virtually all serious competition, and this is one of the reasons why all four of those companies have stuck so loyally to the PS3/360 ecosystem even once it became very apparent they wouldn't be the dominant force in gaming they were hoping for.
 

Izayoi

Banned
Why is this the worst NPD thread ever? I mean, no numbers for the games and 3DS numbers still missing.
What happened to the good old days when everything got leaked?

Media Create is way more exciting than NPD now.

Let's hope that we get some kind of indication on how well the 3DS did.
 

Erethian

Member
We got Top 10 per-platform and Top 10 TTM (trailing 12 months) for Nintendo. Official thread for this is here. Public spreadsheet for charts:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtXhc02VTSWzdEZfdURDYkg3ZGN2R01IcW4tWHBhU0E&hl=en_US

Example: Top 10 Wii games in 2011 (NPD)
  1. Just Dance 3
  2. Just Dance 2
  3. Zumba Fitness
  4. Michael Jackson The Experience
  5. Mario Kart Wii
  6. New Super Mario Bros. Wii
  7. The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
  8. Donkey Kong Country Returns
  9. Skylanders Spyro's Adventure
  10. LEGO Star Wars III: The Saga Continues to Build

With Zelda being somewhere around 1.3 million at this point (its November sales were between 625k and 700k, December sales were at least greater than 600k), just goes to show how crazy the legs on NSMB Wii and MK Wii are.

Also crazy how well Ubisoft is doing with this late gen explosion in dance games.
 
I do not think this can be assumed, and might argue that software sales are down. Consider how the DS rarely had games in the top 10, yet routinely bested the Xbox 360 in software sales during its heyday because it had large numbers of titles selling moderate amounts, including Nintendo's "evergreen" titles.

The PS2 also had this phenomenon (that is, lots of smaller titles selling moderate amounts) similar to the DS and Wii. However, I think both the 360 and PS3 are much more top heavy. It is absolutely plausible for top title sales to go up significantly but total sales to go down as everything but those top titles dry up, and legs on legacy titles continue to grow shorter.

Nintendo and Microsoft have both sold 300+ million units of software in the US this gen(Nintendo might be slightly under that without including bundled software) and by the time it wraps up we will have seen more than a billion units of software sold between the 3 companies in the US alone. And that's not even counting all of the DLC, and digital games that people spend money on.

Sales isn't the issue, the issue is companies being mismanaged by people who haven't got the slightest clue on how to keep themselves within a reasonable budget and who think the solution to problems with a game is to just try and market their way past a blown budget.
 
iOS isn't exploding anything. It might seem like it, but fact is android is the real king of growth in that field at around 60% of the market now, and nokia has teamed up with microsoft, and those guys were as of a few months ago the no. 2 OS behind Android. Don't confuse it, the current situation probably does have android 1, ios 2, but the gap is a 4:1 gap. Android's the one who exploded out the gate hard and continues to shine, ios... isn't actually moving as much as they like to say they are. windows is just starting, and they're hardlining phones the same way they hardlined games. I give 'em to the end of 2014 to overtake apple.
 

fernoca

Member
Example: Top 10 Wii games in 2011 (NPD)
  1. Just Dance 3
  2. Just Dance 2
  3. Zumba Fitness
  4. Michael Jackson The Experience
  5. Mario Kart Wii
  6. New Super Mario Bros. Wii
  7. The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
  8. Donkey Kong Country Returns
  9. Skylanders Spyro's Adventure
  10. LEGO Star Wars III: The Saga Continues to Build
Interesting...
And with Zelda at over 1 million, and Just Dance 3 around 2 million...
  1. Just Dance 3: ~3.5 million
  2. Just Dance 2
  3. Zumba Fitness
  4. Michael Jackson The Experience
  5. Mario Kart Wii
  6. New Super Mario Bros. Wii
  7. The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword: ~1.2 million
  8. Donkey Kong Country Returns
  9. Skylanders Spyro's Adventure
  10. LEGO Star Wars III: The Saga Continues to Build
Every game in between did a over a million just this year and DK Country and Skylanders probably close to that. Also 6, of the 10 top selling games are from third-parties.
 

jman2050

Member
Interesting...
And with Zelda at over 1 million, and Just Dance 3 around 2 million...
  1. Just Dance 3: ~2 million
  2. Just Dance 2
  3. Zumba Fitness
  4. Michael Jackson The Experience
  5. Mario Kart Wii
  6. New Super Mario Bros. Wii
  7. The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword: ~1.2 million
  8. Donkey Kong Country Returns
  9. Skylanders Spyro's Adventure
  10. LEGO Star Wars III: The Saga Continues to Build
Every game in between did a over a million just this year and DK Country and Skylanders probably close to that. Also 6, of the 10 top selling games are form third-parties.

2 million for JD3 is a major lowball. It's closer to 3.5-4 million if anything, assuming creamsugar's post was correct.
 

Wallach

Member
iOS isn't exploding anything. It might seem like it, but fact is android is the real king of growth in that field at around 60% of the market now, and nokia has teamed up with microsoft, and those guys were as of a few months ago the no. 2 OS behind Android. Don't confuse it, the current situation probably does have android 1, ios 2, but the gap is a 4:1 gap. Android's the one who exploded out the gate hard and continues to shine, ios... isn't actually moving as much as they like to say they are. windows is just starting, and they're hardlining phones the same way they hardlined games. I give 'em to the end of 2014 to overtake apple.

They are talking about software sales, where iOS still has like an order of magnitude more unit sales than Android.
 

fernoca

Member
2 million for JD3 is a major lowball. It's closer to 3.5-4 million if anything, assuming creamsugar's post was correct.
Yeah, edited that, checked around..3.5 million is the closest to Wii-only numbers based on estimates and teases.
The rest still stands, that while it may not be the "hardcore software" that some around here may like; still an overall great year for Wii software with 7 million sellers in the US.
 

see5harp

Member
iOS isn't exploding anything. It might seem like it, but fact is android is the real king of growth in that field at around 60% of the market now, and nokia has teamed up with microsoft, and those guys were as of a few months ago the no. 2 OS behind Android. Don't confuse it, the current situation probably does have android 1, ios 2, but the gap is a 4:1 gap. Android's the one who exploded out the gate hard and continues to shine, ios... isn't actually moving as much as they like to say they are. windows is just starting, and they're hardlining phones the same way they hardlined games. I give 'em to the end of 2014 to overtake apple.

Windows Phone 7 is nowhere near even 2 percent of the smart phone market. I think you got it twisted because I don't think I've heard anyone mention Android as a major factor in this argument. When you say iOS you are saying software revenue for iPad, iPod Touch, and iPhones that have all been outselling all competitors in both hardware and software since the launch of the app store.
 

Goldstorm

Banned
Very happy about Assassin's Creed Revelations. I was worried when I saw the unfair treatment the game got from critics. Anyone know if the sales surpassed Brotherhood or are they equal? I missed that info.
 

donny2112

Member
Nintendo and Microsoft have both sold 300+ million units of software in the US this gen(Nintendo might be slightly under that without including bundled software)

Wii was ahead in total software by ~15m in the U.S. as of June 2011 not including bundled software. They're probably still ahead by this point, but it'd be nice to get a tie ratio update to see the current stats. :)
 
Wii was ahead in total software by ~15m in the U.S. as of June 2011 not including bundled software. They're probably still ahead by this point, but it'd be nice to get a tie ratio update to see the current stats. :)

360 attach rate went to 9.0 at MS last earnings release. I made a mistake on the LTD numbers(added an extra million) so they aren't quite at 300 yet unless the attach rate went up again.

I assume the Wii is still ahead since I'm sure we will get MS PR when they have the most sold software in the US this gen.

Either way, it would be a shocking result if all three don't end up with 1 billion combined software sales which tells me the market is plenty big enough and consumers want to buy software. It's on the publishers and developers to make the software they want to buy.
 

kswiston

Member
Cream Sugar said the Wii version was > 2 million over the 360 version, I really doubt JD3 sold 1.5 million on 360 alone...

Game came out in Oct no? I was under the impression that the Wii version was 2M+ over the 360 version in December only. In fact, that would have to be the case if the Wii version was the #1 single SKU in December. No way Modern Warfare 3 did less than 3M combined, and the 360 version would be about two thirds of that number.
 

Cheech

Member
What happened to the good old days when everything got leaked?

Media Create is way more exciting than NPD now.

That's only because we're getting a sneak preview of Sony's latest hardware shitbomb about to splatter into American retail. It's looking like PSP Go 2.0.

Software-wise, really only the Nintendo first party stuff crosses the two regions anymore.
 

jman2050

Member
Cream Sugar said the Wii version was > 2 million over the 360 version, I really doubt JD3 sold 1.5 million on 360 alone...

It was 2 million above the 360 version for the month of December alone, at least that's how his post was worded.

October+November was assuredly around 1 million or so for the Wii version, perhaps more, and the fact that JD3 360 charted in the top 10 SKU this month means JD3 Wii was somewhere between 2.5mil and 3 mil for the month. Thus the 3.5-4 million number. Actually, going into it in more detail like this, that's probably a conservative estimate as well.
 

Cheech

Member
Skylanders is the new plastic dump for Activision.

I went to Target this week, because my kid had some allowance to burn and he wanted some Skylanders. This is what greeted us:

IMG_0153.jpg


Yeah. Heartbreak. I took a picture of it, because a friend of mine whose kid is also obsessed with the damn things, was also looking for them.
 

DGRE

Banned
I went to Target this week, because my kid had some allowance to burn and he wanted some Skylanders. This is what greeted us:

IMG_0153.jpg


Yeah. Heartbreak. I took a picture of it, because a friend of mine whose kid is also obsessed with the damn things, was also looking for them.

Wow, Skylanders is a success through and through. Activision really killed it with this one. Any of you with kids that are loving skylanders can expect them to be begging for the new batch on a yearly basis. Hah!
 

Cheech

Member
Wow, Skylanders is a success through and through. Activision really killed it with this one. Any of you with kids that are loving skylanders can expect them to be begging for the new batch on a yearly basis. Hah!

By my estimation, this is Activision's personnel budget:

Game development: $5

Marketing: $500 million US dollars

DLC exploitation team: $1 billion US dollars

That said, Skylanders IS a fun game. It's like Diablo for kids. But that DLC, which is $8 per character, is insidious. Since it's a physical item (which comes with a character trading card, a sticker, and a code for to make your character "come alive" on a Skylanders web game), it feels like you're getting more for your money.
 
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