Support NeoGAF

[The Steve]

People who are saying the slow in game sales isn't the economy is crazy.

And the reason HDTV sales are up this year is because of the broadcasts switching over to digital.

I know a few people who held out on buying a TV untill the switch happened.

 

[RyuKanSan]

Makes you wonder if they have something in store we do not know about, they have had more than enough chances in the last 90 days to revise their expectations and have refused to do so.

For a company that makes as much as they do and are conservative in their releases and estimates throughout their history, it just seems odd to not have changed it down.

lol its kinda creepy but yet exciting at the same time

 

[kame-sennin]

Basically what's being suggested is that - at its current price point - the Wii has sold to just about everyone who would be prepared to buy one - it's saturated that particular section of the market.

And if it was more consistently phrased in this manor, the flaw in its logic would be more readily apparent. If the Wii has sold to everyone who is interested in its current offerings at its current price, what would be the batter path for Nintendo to follow? Should they change their price or change their offerings? Obviously, they have more to gain by putting out new and different software that could potentially appeal to new audiences. WSR and Wii Fit Plus do not fit the bill, but I imagine Nintendo is focused on developing new software that will appeal to new audiences. In the meantime, they have a 2D Mario being released on a console for the first time in over a decade.

 

[Maxwell House]

Or...it could be MS has the cheapest console out there. $179 is $80 cheaper than the Wii and $120 cheaper than the PS3.

Money speaks

And how is this a bad thing? Microsoft designed the 360 from the outset to be cheap to manufacture in time. This has allowed them to drop the price while still being profitable.

That is just good planning. The same can't be said for Sony and the PS3. Their low sales is due to their poor decision making.

 

[Castle Doctrine]

I think you need to look at the picture again.

I did I think it's funny. But you act like Sony fans are the only crazy ones. We're all crazy. Okay so maybe Sony fans have a special breed of craziness.

In this thread though, your posts come off as a lot more fanboyish than any Sony defenders.

Spoiler

junior fight

 

[plagiarize]

People who are saying the slow in game sales isn't the economy is crazy.

And the reason HDTV sales are up this year is because of the broadcasts switching over to digital.

I know a few people who held out on buying a TV untill the switch happened.

it's also because they are cheaper now too.

only one console is cheaper now than last year and shockingly it's the one selling more.

the PS3 is a disaster, and it isn't a disaster. it's totally down to how you frame it. compare it to the PS2 as many justifiably do, and it's an utter failure. but frankly it's doing surprisingly well in and of itself 'considering'.

considering the failure of cell to make major inroads into other electronics and help drive down the costs of the PS3. considering the economy. considering the price tag.

now sure a lot of those things are Sony's fault. they designed the system. they priced it. they failed to establish cell... but that isn't really the fault of people working in the entertainment division today. they didn't decide to piggy back blu-ray on the system (which was certainly a success from the Blu-Ray movie side of things, HD-DVD was winning before the PS3 came out and a big reason for the companies siding with Sony was that they knew sony would use the PS3 to help establish the format). they didn't decide that each division in the company had to turn a profit every year all of a sudden when the market turned.

the decisions of the people before them, people now promoted out of the way, are a big part of what set the PS3 up for failure.

i genuinely think that the people working to make it a success despite being handed those bad decisions have done a good job.

the telling sign though will be though in whether or not they try to launch with a markedly more expensive fully featured console next time around.

my bet would be that they won't.

 

[plagiarize]

I did I think it's funny. But you act like Sony fans are the only crazy ones. We're all crazy. Okay so maybe Sony fans have a special breed of craziness.

In this thread though, your posts come off as a lot more fanboyish than any Sony defenders.

Spoiler

junior fight

someone explained this to me once and it's always been my go to explanation.

Sony fans just look crazier because their opinions are further from reality. the people that irrationally (ie, not based on quality of games or hardware or support or whatever) love the 360 and the Wii don't stick out because the sales back them up.

a lot of the blind Nintendo fans that looked like lunatics last generation look quite sane now, and it's not because they changed, it's because reality changed.

still, i find that most people if they last long enough go through a period of being quite biased, and that the debate over time mellows them out. there's a lot of posters that used to drive me mad with blind reverance that seem quite rational now.

is that me mellowing out or them?

it's probably a bit of both to be honest.

sales age never gets boring though

 

[Shurs]

You've almost got it straight. You're just missing the little bit where the PS3 has wiped out almost every penny Sony has ever made in the games business and that they went from incontestable leader to market near-irrelevance faster than you can say "SEGA".

Maybe with those little bits of info you can get your head out of la-la land.

At the end of a generation was Sega ever a market leader?

The same thing happened to Nintendo after the SNES.

 

[Version 3.0]

Right and there are costs with the extra factories they opened back when everyone was saying that Nintendo were being too conservative. I'm saying that making money is the most important thing and selling more consoles at a lower price isn't necessarily the way to go.

That's a good argument in support of dropping the price. Those extra facilities that they slowly, grudgingly opened may turn out to have been a bad idea after all if they can't maintain a sales level that requires their use--which is why they were so conservative about it, of course. Now they may be making the opposite mistake in failing to keep those facilities running.

Of course, dropping the price isn't always the answer. I'm saying that in this case, it is. There's a huge market below $200, at least according to 30 years of sales history.

It's really ironic that Nintendo, who clearly understood that having a $400-$600 console wasn't the right thing to do at the start of this gen, is now in the position of being too stubborn to go to $199.

 

[Chrange]

Putting another spin into these data:

PS2, first 33 month = 18,080k /33 = 547 k/ month
month 34 to 45 = (24,112 - 18,080) / 12 = 502 k/month

xbox, first 33 month = 9,361k/33 = 283k/month
33 to 45th month = (12500-9361)k/12 = 261k/month

not bother to do the gc, but it's a similar story

but look at the 360!
first 33 month 10749k/33 = 325k /month
last year(33 to 45th) (15683-10749)k/12 = 411k/month

So here in America, the 360's sales is on an upward trend even after 3 years. where as the the xbox, gc and even the great ps2 has seen a sales decline.

If someone has the data for ps3/wii last year vs first xx monthes, we can look at it as well.

Please point out any math mistake

Wii - 10,151,000
PS3 - 3,544,900

 

[Version 3.0]

At the end of a generation was Sega ever a market leader?

The same thing happened to Nintendo after the SNES.

A similar but considerably less drastic thing happened to Nintendo after the SNES.

 

[AceBandage]

That's a good argument in support of dropping the price. Those extra facilities that they slowly, grudgingly opened may turn out to have been a bad idea after all if they can't maintain a sales level that requires their use--which is why they were so conservative about it, of course. Now they may be making the opposite mistake in failing to keep those facilities running.

Of course, dropping the price isn't always the answer. I'm saying that in this case, it is. There's a huge market below $200, at least according to 30 years of sales history.

It's really ironic that Nintendo, who clearly understood that having a $400-$600 console wasn't the right thing to do at the start of this gen, is now in the position of being too stubborn to go to $199.

Well, Nintendo has more tricks they can use before they have to resort to that.
I mean, they could release different colors, game bundles, or even a new SKU with an Ethernet port and more internal memory. All would boost sales nicely.

 

[plagiarize]

That's a good argument in support of dropping the price. Those extra facilities that they slowly, grudgingly opened may turn out to have been a bad idea after all if they can't maintain a sales level that requires their use--which is why they were so conservative about it, of course. Now they may be making the opposite mistake in failing to keep those facilities running.

Of course, dropping the price isn't always the answer. I'm saying that in this case, it is. There's a huge market below $200, at least according to 30 years of sales history.

It's really ironic that Nintendo, who clearly understood that having a $400-$600 console wasn't the right thing to do at the start of this gen, is now in the position of being too stubborn to go to $199.

cut wii sports from the system and sell it for $199 would be the way i'd go. just personally.

wii sports is basically redundant now thanks to wii sports resort, and it'd be a very easy sale to say 'well, a wii with wii sports was $250 and now a wii with wii sports resort instead is $250' but it would ALSO help them hit the magic $199. if you still pack in wii sports at $199, you lose a wii sports resort sale i would expect.

why would you buy wii sports resort with your wii when you get wii sports for free? i'm sure they will see this.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

At the end of a generation was Sega ever a market leader?

The same thing happened to Nintendo after the SNES.

What does SEGA the company have to do with anything? I was just looking for a short word, and it was the first one that came to mind.

 

[tenten]

Wii - 10,151,000
PS3 - 3,544,900

Up to which month are those?
please give the month numbers too

 

[Chrange]

Well, Nintendo has more tricks they can use before they have to resort to that.
I mean, they could release different colors, game bundles, or even a new SKU with an Ethernet port and more internal memory. All would boost sales nicely.

Colors would help, but I can't see adding an Ethernet port and more memory being a real 'tipping point' addition for their audience.

 

[Chrange]

Up to which month are those?
please give the month numbers too

That's 2008's totals, Jan-December. Here's the breakdown:

Wii
January 2008 - 274,000
February 2008 - 432,000
March 2008 - 721,000
April 2008 - 714,200
May 2008 - 675,100
June 2008 - 666,700
July 2008 - 555,000
August 2008 - 453,000
September 2008 - 667,000
October 2008 - 803,000
November 2008 - 2,040,000
December 2008 - 2,150,000


PS3
January 2008 - 269,000
February 2008 - 280,800
March 2008 - 257,000
April 2008 - 187,100
May 2008 - 208,700
June 2008 - 405,500
July 2008 - 225,000
August 2008 - 185,400
September 2008 - 232,400
October 2008 - 190,000
November 2008 - 378,000
December 2008 - 726,000

 

[Nirolak]

At the end of a generation was Sega ever a market leader?

The same thing happened to Nintendo after the SNES.

Actually Nintendo never lost the money it made during the NES and SNES era. They just made less profit.

 

[clashfan]

The same thing happened to Nintendo after the SNES.

Don't compare Sony to Nintendo. The difference is no matter what position Nintendo was in the console war, it was always profitable. That's the big difference.

 

[Vinci]

Don't compare Sony to Nintendo. The difference is no matter what position Nintendo was in the console war, it was always profitable. That's the big difference.

Someone needs to make a Flipnote animation for us to use whenever someone pulls out the 'well sony is fine - look at what happened with nintendo!!' because it is the dumbest comparison ever.

 

[tenten]

Someone needs to make a Flipnote animation for us to use whenever someone pulls out the 'well sony is fine - look at what happened with nintendo!!' because it is the dumbest comparison ever.

Come on fanboys, it's Sony!
it's the two time defending champ losing for the first time!
let them have it!!!!

 

[CTLance]

Actually Nintendo never lost the money it made during the NES and SNES era. They just made less profit.

That's the scary thing with them. They only had a single quarter where they had negative income in their entire history - and even then it was mostly due to exchange rate fluctuations.

They're insanely proficient at making money. If anything, that's an aspect both of their rivals could stand to learn from them.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Come on fanboys, it's Sony!
it's the two time defending champ losing for the first time!
let them have it!!!!

"So, did you let him have it?"

"No. He let himself have it."

 

[Danthrax]

"So, did you let him have it?"

"No. He let himself have it."

damnit, what movie is that from? it's driving me crazy.

 

[NYR]

damnit, what movie is that from? it's driving me crazy.

I only know it from Family Guy...

 

[Vinci]

Come on fanboys, it's Sony!
it's the two time defending champ losing for the first time!
let them have it!!!!

I'm not letting anyone have it. Comparing Sony to Nintendo is utterly preposterous; the two companies operate and strategize in totally different ways. Their business models are 100% different.

 

[clashfan]

Come on fanboys, it's Sony!
it's the two time defending champ losing for the first time!
let them have it!!!!

Oh grow up!

 

[d+pad]

Basically what's being suggested is that - at its current price point - the Wii has sold to just about everyone who would be prepared to buy one - it's saturated that particular section of the market.

If this were true, wouldn't that mean that the 360 saturated at its current price, too? After all, it's sold less than the Wii each month this year (as far as I can remember).

Don't get me wrong, I think Nintendo should drop the price of the Wii, but I'm not sure *they* see it that way. It seems like, in their minds, the Wii is still selling better than the competition, is still making them loads of money and they *still* have access to every trick in the book (new colors, bundles, price drop) to spur sales if they feel like the tide is turning.

 

[AwRy108]

it's also because they are cheaper now too.

only one console is cheaper now than last year and shockingly it's the one selling more.

the PS3 is a disaster, and it isn't a disaster. it's totally down to how you frame it. compare it to the PS2 as many justifiably do, and it's an utter failure. but frankly it's doing surprisingly well in and of itself 'considering'.

considering the failure of cell to make major inroads into other electronics and help drive down the costs of the PS3. considering the economy. considering the price tag.

now sure a lot of those things are Sony's fault. they designed the system. they priced it. they failed to establish cell... but that isn't really the fault of people working in the entertainment division today. they didn't decide to piggy back blu-ray on the system (which was certainly a success from the Blu-Ray movie side of things, HD-DVD was winning before the PS3 came out and a big reason for the companies siding with Sony was that they knew sony would use the PS3 to help establish the format). they didn't decide that each division in the company had to turn a profit every year all of a sudden when the market turned.

the decisions of the people before them, people now promoted out of the way, are a big part of what set the PS3 up for failure.

i genuinely think that the people working to make it a success despite being handed those bad decisions have done a good job.

the telling sign though will be though in whether or not they try to launch with a markedly more expensive fully featured console next time around.

my bet would be that they won't.

Well said. One of the few people to spell it out without being a prick about it.

I will say that there is one majorly positive fact that has come out of this generation for Sony: the competition from Microsoft has really served as a wake-up call for them, and has forced them to really focus on generating much better software and firmware. As I early PS3 adopter, I shudder when remembering just how terrible the original PS3 firmware was.

Even if, in the end, Sony's PSP and PS2 profits aren't enough to balance out their PS3 losses, at least we got Uncharted, R&C Future, and Heavenly Sword, along with a rather useful piece of hardware. If Sony had continued to go unchallenged into this generation, I hate to think how much longer it would've taken for them to get all their sh*t together.

 

[Tiktaalik]

I still don't think a price drop is necessary. Nintendo has had a weak summer lineup. I think we'll see sales pick up with the August NPDs and rise from there once more of their bigger releases appear.

 

[Vinci]

Don't get me wrong, I think Nintendo should drop the price of the Wii, but I'm not sure *they* see it that way. It seems like, in their minds, the Wii is still selling better than the competition, is still making them loads of money and they *still* have access to every trick in the book (new colors, bundles, price drop) to spur sales if they feel like the tide is turning.

It's not about beating the competitors with them. All it is, from their perspective, is a failure to reinforce the system's value at that price-point through the release of system-defining or redefining products.

 

[jvm]

Top 20 posted yet?

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=24851

 

[Koodo]

Top 20 posted yet?

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=24851

[top 20]

Oh, I knew something felt oddly wrong about the top 10. Wii Play landed outside of it at 11! Is this the first time?

 

[Tiktaalik]

Punch-Out is still doing well. Nintendo should play the commercials again during xmas time for everyone who missed out on it because they were on summer vacation.

 

[laserbeam]

Top 13 are all Nintendo and EA and 15 of the top 20 are Nintendo and EA :lol

 

[meme]

Nice to see Punch-Out still holding

Oh, I knew something felt oddly wrong about the top 10. Wii Play landed outside of it at 11! Is this the first time?

The same thing happened last month iirc

 

[markatisu]

Go Go Punch Out, I think we will see a lot of that in the coming months (especially at Christmas)

And look at Tiger Woods Wii, if there was any doubt M+ and the change a few years back to the Wii being the lead sku this should finally put those to rest.

 

[Vinci]

How the hell is that Transformers game for the DS selling??
Or is it surprisingly not trash?

 

[Busaiku]

Punch Out is showing some pretty impressive legs.
The number probably isn't too high, but it's still not bad.

 

[markatisu]

How the hell is that Transformers game for the DS selling??
Or is it surprisingly not trash?

Reviewers said it was better than the previous movie DS game and that compared to the consoles it was the best of the releases.

I wonder though if that is both versions combined (there were two releases, one autobot and one decepticon), that would easily explain how it entered the Top 20

 

[Kifimbo]

Starfy, like Punch-Out!!, is holding up pretty well.

 

[jvm]

I wonder though if that is both versions combined (there were two releases, one autobot and one decepticon), that would easily explain how it entered the Top 20

The source data I got from NPD to make the chart says "Autobots" specifically.

 

[marc^o^]

NPD: Xbox 360 is "industry's sole bright spot," says Microsoft

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/npd-xbox-360-is-industrys-sole-bright-spot-says-microsoft

I guess they exclude Nintendo platforms again.


Where is July's Nintendo PR, have I missed it?

 

[farnham]

GREAT!!! I hope this solidifies the possibility of Punchout 2

 

[BorkBork]

Go Little Mac go!

 

[Danthrax]

Well Anita said NCAA Football had a total sales of 689k. If we subtract the PS3 and 360 sales from that number, we get 75.1k for the PS2 version, which gives us the bottom range of this top 20. [edit] Except that the PSP version exists and we don't know how much it sold. So all this tells us is the bottom range is less than 75k but no higher.

I only know it from Family Guy...

Was it? Okay. Must be where I remember it from.

 

[markatisu]

Well Anita said NCAA Football had a total sales of 689k. If we subtract the PS3 and 360 sales from that number, we get 75.1k for the PS2 version, which gives us the bottom range of this top 20.

You are forgetting the PSP release could be in there

So the upper end would be 75k if the PSP sold 0

 

[jvm]

Well Anita said NCAA Football had a total sales of 689k. If we subtract the PS3 and 360 sales from that number, we get 75.1k for the PS2 version, which gives us the bottom range of this top 20.

We're excluding the PSP version?

 

[Epiphyte]

Well Anita said NCAA Football had a total sales of 689k. If we subtract the PS3 and 360 sales from that number, we get 75.1k for the PS2 version, which gives us the bottom range of this top 20.

So game 10-20 all sold within a 20K range of each other

I wonder if the bottom of the top 20 is always this consistent?

 

[Danthrax]

You are forgetting the PSP release could be in there

So the upper end would be 75k if the PSP sold 0

yeah I didn't realize there was a PSP version. damnit. so the 20th place is quite a bit lower than 75k, then.