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[Kite]

Playing devil's advocate here: If White supremacy was solely responsible for the wealth gap, why are Asians apparently not affected by it as they earn more than Whites on average in the US?

It's not just Asian-Americans, recent African-American immigrants are the most educated immigrant group in the US, not East Asians. They are coming to the US with undergrad and masters degrees. For example Nigerian-Americans beat everyone with 2/3rds having college degrees and easily outperform American Whites in education and are well above the national average in average income and beat many White and Asian groups.

 

[WonkyPanda]

I was really confused at first thinking the chart laid out "income" per household, not wealth.

Now, it makes a lot more sense and it's clear that homeownership is the driving force behind this.

 

[mozfan12]

Playing devil's advocate here: If White supremacy was solely responsible for the wealth gap, why are Asians apparently not affected by it as they earn more than Whites on average in the US?

It's also problematic to see Asians as being all equally successful. The wealth gap in Asian Americans is larger than it is for whites. Look at this article, https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/race/reports/2016/12/20/295359/wealth-inequality-among-asian-americans-greater-than-among-whites/.

 

[Wulfric]

I was really confused at first thinking the chart laid out "income" per household, not wealth.

Now, it makes a lot more sense and it's clear that homeownership is the driving force behind this.

Yeah, that spooked me for a second until I remembered the definition of wealth. College debt is real thing if your parents can't or won't help pay for school. That happens more often with black/latino students whose parents didn't go to college. I'm grateful to have the GI Bill covering it, otherwise I'd finish school with at least 25k in loans. And this is commuting to a flagship state school!

Rentals are where it's at. My aunt is a physician, and her family has slowly been putting money into little homes near a local college. That becomes quite the inheritance for the next generation once you get 5-10 homes. Lots of minority families simply don't have that opportunity.

 

[SolarPowered]

Except it was the minority voters that didn't really want Bernie.

That really worked out for us (minority berniebro and voted for Clinton anyway).

Spoiler

;_;

 

[bman94]

When people ask why do HBCU's still exist, this is why.

 

[Goose_Se7en]

This is the primary reason "economic anxiety" pisses me off.

Because it only exists because the privileged class in this country fears and rejects ever having to do this kind of service work to survive like we do.

Spot on post. It's why rural GOP voters view folks on the left as pompous, whiny elites. Folks like us we know the struggle and do what we need to do to earn a wage and put food on the table and pay bills/rent etc.

I read this post just now after waking up and resonated so much I got goosebumps. Deadass.

 

[Htown]

Playing devil's advocate here: If White supremacy was solely responsible for the wealth gap, why are Asians apparently not affected by it as they earn more than Whites on average in the US?

Well what do you think is responsible for the wealth gap?

 

[Usobuko]

I foresee a bunch of racists seizing upon that "lack of motivation " stat.

On the other hand, when it happened to them, it's " economic anxiety " + " they took our jobs ".

Playing devil's advocate here: If White supremacy was solely responsible for the wealth gap, why are Asians apparently not affected by it as they earn more than Whites on average in the US?

White people are screwed by their own kind, just like Republican wants a dumb population base to keep voting for them.

Let me know if you see Asians are as represented in top paying jobs as they are in academics. This doesn't even mention entertainment where they have non-existing presence.

 

[RDreamer]

What's weird in places like NYC and SF is that there's a permanent service class--retail workers, restaurant workers, and so on that are mostly minorities, servicing mostly white folks. It's very disturbing. Go to any Whole Foods in NYC and that's what you see.

Yeah I see this a lot too. The place I work for has a location out in a Chicago suburb. They're not all filthy rich out there, but they're pretty damned well off. The entire town is minority serving white people in every restaurant and store you can find. It feels really fucking weird every time I'm down there. And speaking as someone who knows our own hiring down there, it's fucking impossible to get any of the younger white kids that live around to come work at those type of places. The ones that do apply still don't need the job and act like it's way beneath them. So everyone that works in the town lives like 40 minutes away in the city.

 

[Vanillalite]

I wonder how much the top 5% or even top 1% which is basically old white dudes skews the numbers high.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Playing devil's advocate here: If White supremacy was solely responsible for the wealth gap, why are Asians apparently not affected by it as they earn more than Whites on average in the US?

1. Don't play devil's advocate on stuff like this. It is transparent as hell.

2. Asians is an overachimg classification. Break it down by nationality and you will see that no, there is a large portion of the Asian community struggling and making significantly less than white people. The same way immigrants from several African countries actually largely out perform white people as well.

Pointing to Asians and going "gotcha" is dishonest as hell.

 

[NeonBlack]

But I thought they were the ones with economic anxiety?

They were never in that position before. But us...we'll get over it.

 

[Abelard]

Except it was the minority voters that didn't really want Bernie.

Correction: Old Minorities. Bernie won the youth across the board.

 

[The Technomancer]

Yeah I see this a lot too. The place I work for has a location out in a Chicago suburb. They're not all filthy rich out there, but they're pretty damned well off. The entire town is minority serving white people in every restaurant and store you can find. It feels really fucking weird every time I'm down there. And speaking as someone who knows our own hiring down there, it's fucking impossible to get any of the younger white kids that live around to come work at those type of places. The ones that do apply still don't need the job and act like it's way beneath them. So everyone that works in the town lives like 40 minutes away in the city.

Yup its super fucking creepy but it explains a lot

 

[Aztechnology]

Ahhh the harder you work the luckier you get fallacy. I mean sure to a point the hustle can get you places. But I hate it more than anything else when people pretend like everyone has the same prospects it they work hard enough.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

Let's be real.

The Democratic party this year was the most progressive in terms of race it's ever been in this country and it still danced its way all around this factoid.

People who regurgitate the most progressive it has ever been talking point are trying to deflect from the Democratic party's low starting point and where African Americans stand today. They simply don't want to hear alternative facts that contradict their caricature of where African Americans are at.

 

[Tain]

Correction: Old Minorities. Bernie won the youth across the board.

yeah, this is a pretty important distinction to make

 

[Brinbe]

Oh I know. I've said countless times around here how angry I am that white liberals seem to want to throw minorities under the bus after an election where black citizens are being gunned down in the streets and Hillary barely fucking talked about it and there was nary a peep about that issue throughout. She pandered too much? Get the fuck outta here.

Huh. This is just not true. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8IUUBF_E2A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rgd4C_Ve1E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsFWNxJOUpw

Christ almighty. She talked about it quite a lot.

 

[The Last Wizard]

Well duh /Mr.Burns

 

[Exile20]

It's not just Asian-Americans, recent African-American immigrants are the most educated immigrant group in the US, not East Asians. They are coming to the US with undergrad and masters degrees. For example Nigerian-Americans beat everyone with 2/3rds having college degrees and easily outperform American Whites in education and are well above the national average in average income and beat many White and Asian groups.

This right here. I am a caribbean-american citizen and I have a lot of African and american friends and what you said is true. This is the difference between immigrants with generations of family and ones that came here lately.

 

[The Last Wizard]

Working as designed.

Shh, you're giving the secret away.

 

[wildfire]

It's hard to get this infromation because the Census tables are in a terrible XLS format but let's have some perspective that racially a lot of hispanic and black households are single parents.

I think we need a lot more data to get a clearer picture of economic structures. I know a lot of minority group families working just as hard but they aren't struggling like this. I think we need a mode group to highlight the most common income clusters instead of using a straight up average. This article feels way too imprecise.

 

[The Last Wizard]

God that's just sad to look at.

Imagine if one of our two parties would even fucking acknowledge there's a problem that should be solved.

They'd get ignored from here to hell and ostracized.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

A large thing too is that a lot of our parents were the first of many to attain middle class status through manufacturing. Hell, when I was growing up, I wanted to follow in the footsteps of my folks and work for Ford. That was what I saw. My mom would always say, go to school, I was like, whatever, my folks had all the nice things, trips everywhere, etc. It's hard to be the messenger for something when you don't embody that message. So, I ultimately get to Ford, hated it from the first day there. Money was great, worked tons of overtime, but I went back to school. I have a Bachelors and a Masters, currently working on a second Bachelors that will be done by September.

Education isn't the end all, be all, but it is the best thing going so that is where we should start. Education is freedom in a sense and if you don't have it, you are stuck. Now? I make way more than my mom does, father is in supervisory so I still have a ways to go to catch him but before it's all said and done, I will.

It's the mindset of trying to get put on a a job rather than a career. A lot of black people still have jobs. I have a career. Big difference. A job will cap what you make an hour. Be the hardest working person in the entire plant, if you share the same seniority date as the laziest person, you will still make the same amount of money and its capped as to what you can make. With a career, your education and your experience with the prestige of your positions goes a long way into determining your earning potential. If you told me I'd be making what I make when I was younger, I didn't see it as possible because I didn't have anyone around me to show that. I come from a family of auto workers and steel mill workers. Doing finance in healthcare as I do now wasn't even on the radar.

It starts with education, it's always started there.

 

[lightskintwin]

Playing devil's advocate here: If White supremacy was solely responsible for the wealth gap, why are Asians apparently not affected by it as they earn more than Whites on average in the US?

This and your posts in the Dear White People thread show how completely transparent you are. The fact you're using old right wing talking points to prop up this model minority and claiming Devil's Advocate is hilarious. The Devil has enough advocates. It's almost as if African Americans had a different experience than everybody else in this country that has negatively affected them specifically and continues to do so. Hmmmmm.... I wonder what that is.

 

[The Last Wizard]

Correction: Old Minorities. Bernie won the youth across the board.

Yup, older black people love the clintons.

C'mon guys let's keep the discussion going, why do these racial threads always die out so quickly?

 

[User Name Here]

I wonder if pooling resources together and creating businesses that mostly serve the community would help solve this.

 

[The Last Wizard]

I wonder if pooling resources together and creating businesses that mostly serve the community would help solve this.

Yes, if the money stayed within the community more it'd benefit the community but it leaves so damn fast. Check out Black Wall Street.

 

[lightskintwin]

I wonder if pooling resources together and creating businesses that mostly serve the community would help solve this.

There's a history of African Americans doing this and jealous Whites destroying those communities and stealing the land.

Integration had the unintended effect of exacerbating issues within African American communities.

 

[The Horror the horror]

It's not just Asian-Americans, recent African-American immigrants are the most educated immigrant group in the US, not East Asians. They are coming to the US with undergrad and masters degrees. For example Nigerian-Americans beat everyone with 2/3rds having college degrees and easily outperform American Whites in education and are well above the national average in average income and beat many White and Asian groups.

My parents fall into that category.

Came to the U.S. from a war-torn country broke as a joke and could barely speak a lick of English. After 5 or 6 years, my dad opened up a cuisine restaurant in D.C. Did pretty well for himself (and for us). The key to his achievements as a non-English speaking immigrant is that he had a diaspora community in place to support him. A tight-knit group, of about a thousand or so, who pitched in to help him when he needed that extra dollar, or needed someone to babysit me. Everyone helped each other, we didn't need to be related.

I've been living in D.C. for about 35 years now, so I'd like to think I have a decent understanding of the Black community from an outsider's perspective (and no, Afro-Americans don't consider Africans "Black"). From my observation, the modern-day Black community - at least the one here - has failed to coalesce similarly because the lack of a strong support system from within. Unless you're family or a friend, it's every man for himself, which is the predominant mentality with most majority groups, but despite being systematically targeted in a racial caste system, there's still this glaring lack of cohesion that normally manifests itself as a self-preservation mechanism among persecuted groups. I suppose all this shit starts at home and I don't pretend to know all the answers, but I do know about my old community and remember the little things that helped each member have a shot at making it in this country.

 

[lightskintwin]

My parents fall into that category.

Came to the U.S. from a war-torn country broke as a joke and could barely speak a lick of English. After 5 or 6 years, my dad opened up a cuisine restaurant in D.C. Did pretty well for himself (and for us). The key to his achievements as a non-English speaking immigrant is that he had a diaspora community in place to support him. A tight-knit group, of about a thousand or so, who pitched in to help him when he needed that extra dollar, or needed someone to babysit me. Everyone helped each other, we didn't need to be related.

I've been living in D.C. for about 35 years now, so I'd like to think I have a decent understanding of the Black community from an outsider's perspective (and no, Afro-Americans don't consider Africans "Black"). From my observation, the modern-day Black community - at least the one here - has failed to coalesce similarly because the lack of a strong support system from within. Unless you're family or a friend, it's every man for himself, which is the predominant mentality with most majority groups, but despite being systematically targeted in a racial caste system, there's still this glaring lack of cohesion that normally manifests itself as a self-preservation mechanism among persecuted groups. I suppose all this shit starts at home and I don't pretend to know all the answers, but I do know about my old community and remember the little things that helped each member have a shot at making it in this country.

LOL @ African Americans don't consider Africans "Black" Not to discount your anecdotal evidence, but that couldn't be farther from the truth.

 

[Frozenprince]

LOL @ African Americans don't consider Africans "Black" Not to discount your anecdotal evidence, but that couldn't be farther from the truth.

I am so tempted to post some hotep bullshit.

 

[The Horror the horror]

LOL @ African Americans don't consider Africans "Black" Not to discount your anecdotal evidence, but that couldn't be farther from the truth.

It's true.

It's not anecdotal, it's real life.

 

[lightskintwin]

It's true.

It's not anecdotal, it's real life.

It is anecdotal based on your personal experiences and then made into a broader generalization as a truth. When it's not.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

It's true.

It's not anecdotal, it's real life.

Mmm, nahh. Don't think so. It's purely anecdotal. They consider Africans different, which they are as they've obviously grown up in a different environment, but they're black. It sounds like it's just the people you've been around

 

[Vicetrailia]

Each man is an island right. Blacks have the American values, but they don't get that same legs up.

 

[Deepwater]

Playing devil's advocate here: If White supremacy was solely responsible for the wealth gap, why are Asians apparently not affected by it as they earn more than Whites on average in the US?

1. The Devil never needs an advocate

2. Not ALL Asian Immigrants/ Asian Americans are doing the same socioeconomically.

Asia is literally the largest continent on earth made up of hundreds of nationalities and thousands of ethnicities. Putting them all in a group is a surefire way to make a dumb point.

 

[The Horror the horror]

It is anecdotal based on your personal experiences and then made into a broader generalization as a truth. When it's not.

Give me a break with that shit.

Black folks can be just as overtly racist towards us Africans as Whites. Starts from grade school the moment we pronounce our names in front of the class all the way to adulthood.

 

[Deepwater]

My parents fall into that category.

Came to the U.S. from a war-torn country broke as a joke and could barely speak a lick of English. After 5 or 6 years, my dad opened up a cuisine restaurant in D.C. Did pretty well for himself (and for us). The key to his achievements as a non-English speaking immigrant is that he had a diaspora community in place to support him. A tight-knit group, of about a thousand or so, who pitched in to help him when he needed that extra dollar, or needed someone to babysit me. Everyone helped each other, we didn't need to be related.

I've been living in D.C. for about 35 years now, so I'd like to think I have a decent understanding of the Black community from an outsider's perspective (and no, Afro-Americans don't consider Africans "Black"). From my observation, the modern-day Black community - at least the one here - has failed to coalesce similarly because the lack of a strong support system from within. Unless you're family or a friend, it's every man for himself, which is the predominant mentality with most majority groups, but despite being systematically targeted in a racial caste system, there's still this glaring lack of cohesion that normally manifests itself as a self-preservation mechanism among persecuted groups. I suppose all this shit starts at home and I don't pretend to know all the answers, but I do know about my old community and remember the little things that helped each member have a shot at making it in this country.

African Immigrants come into America, benefit from the privilege of not being "African American" to white people, benefit from the privilege of all the civil rights activism done by African Americans, yet love to speak ill on black americans.

This mentality with Africans by and large come from an ignorance of the subjugation of black americans have faced in America. They feel we are wasting opportunity, don't value education, don't value community, it's all bullshit.

African Immigrants would be nothing in America without Black Americans. Literally, nothing.

Give me a break with that shit.

Black folks can be just as overtly racist towards us Africans as Whites. Starts from grade school the moment we pronounce our names in front of the class all the way to adulthood.

Black Americans roast everybody. Sorry the culture is different and sorry you couldn't take it.

 

[lightskintwin]

Give me a break with that shit.

Black folks can be just as overtly racist towards us Africans as Whites. Starts from grade school the moment we pronounce our names in front of the class all the way to adulthood.

No, Give me a break with that shit. Black folks can not systemically oppress you so quit with the dumb ass false equivalencies to White people. Sure they can be prejudice and/or ignorant, just like Light skin African Americans can be to Dark skin African Americans and vice versa. What's does that have to do with your original claim that African Americans don't consider Africans "Black"?

From my observation, the modern-day Black community - at least the one here - has failed to coalesce similarly because the lack of a strong support system from within. Unless you're family or a friend, it's every man for himself, which is the predominant mentality with most majority groups, but despite being systematically targeted in a racial caste system, there's still this glaring lack of cohesion that normally manifests itself as a self-preservation mechanism among persecuted groups.

Also, this did exist otherwise the Civil Rights and Black Power movements could not have existed or been as effective on a national scale. You bring up being systematically targeted in a racial caste system and yet have not made any connections to history and what occurred systemically during and after those times to break down these communities and cohesion. Also, integration played a significant part in breaking up that cohesion, by taking the best and brightest out of those communities and benefiting White businesses, institutions, and communities due to an already existing racial economic imbalance that was never fixed and made worse as a consequence.

 

[The Horror the horror]

African Immigrants come into America, benefit from the privilege of not being "African American" to white people, benefit from the privilege of all the civil rights activism done by African Americans, yet love to speak ill on black americans.

This mentality with Africans by and large come from an ignorance of the subjugation of black americans have faced in America. They feel we are wasting opportunity, don't value education, don't value community, it's all bullshit.

African Immigrants would be nothing in America without Black Americans. Literally, nothing.

Can't disagree with you there.

For the most part, you're right. But I think the dismissive attitudes you're alluding to have been aimed predominately towards their U.S. contemporaries. And I think some of that animosity you've mentioned originates from their inability to replicate those achievements and civil liberties back home.

EDIT: But you need to stop acting like you (by you, I mean YOU) and your friends helped to lay the groundwork because you're just as much a beneficiary to that struggle as the rest of us.

 

[The Horror the horror]

No, Give me a break with that shit. Black folks can not systemically oppress you so quit with the dumb ass false equivalencies to White people. Sure they can be prejudice and/or ignorant, just like Light skin African Americans can be to Dark skin African Americans and vice versa. What's does that have to do with your original claim that African Americans don't consider Africans "Black"?

No one said anything about Black people systematically oppressing Africans. That never came out. I said they can be just as racist towards Africans as White people. Our little group has seen it and lived it. And for sure Afro-Americans don't consider Africans as Black. Under the racial category section on a form I'd get bubbled in as Black, but that's not what we're talking about and you know it.

 

[theignoramus]

I foresee a bunch of racists seizing upon that "lack of motivation " stat.

That OP left out the most crucial finding of this study and I have no idea why.

Here's the tough part. The report shows that typical markers of success in white households – and the chosen interventions in the lives of others – are not translating into lasting wealth and security in households of color.
Attending college does not close the racial wealth gap.
Raising children in a two-parent household does not close the racial wealth gap.
Working full time does not close the racial wealth gap.
Spending less does not close the racial wealth gap.

 

[lightskintwin]

No one said anything about Black people systematically oppressing Africans. That never came out. I said they can be just as racist towards Africans as White people. Our little group has seen it and lived it. And for sure Afro-Americans don't consider Africans as Black. Under the racial category section on a form I'd get bubbled in as Black, but that's not what we're talking about and you know it.

Because when you use the term Racism and make a false equivalency that African Americans can be as Racist towards Africans as White People, it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the historical and systemic racism White people have had towards Blacks and completely dilutes the meaning of Racism.

"Our little group has seen it and lived it" is literally anecdotal evidence.

Perhaps travel outside your little circle. The majority of African immigrants eventually intermarry with African Americans. As an African American with a huge network of Black friends and associates, study African American history and culture, and travel to various different Black communities around America, I literally have never heard or saw this phenomenon that African Americans don't consider Africans "Black". All the while having friends and associates in Black networks that are Nigerian, Ghanaian, Ethiopian, and Eritirean.

 

[theignoramus]

Playing devil's advocate here: If White supremacy was solely responsible for the wealth gap, why are Asians apparently not affected by it as they earn more than Whites on average in the US?

They still have to deal with a glass ceiling of being kept out of managerial positions and your phrasing "Asian" makes zero distinction between the Asians who do socio-economically better than Whites versus the Asians who dont.

 

[Palette Swap]

If anyone missed it back then, the case for reparations reports in great detail on the generational history of a black family (among many) and its struggle to home ownership.
The fact this kind of redlining only became formally illegal in 1968 means that people now are still suffering from that lack of inherited wealth other people got.

 

[User Name Here]

Yes, if the money stayed within the community more it'd benefit the community but it leaves so damn fast. Check out Black Wall Street.

There's a history of African Americans doing this and jealous Whites destroying those communities and stealing the land.

Integration had the unintended effect of exacerbating issues within African American communities.

Yeah, I heard about those events.

It should be possible to pool resources together now without much, if any, interference. I actually wanted to talk about that in the community thread, but figured i'd be ignored lol.

 

[Deepwater]

If anyone missed it back then, the case for reparations reports in great detail on the generational history of a black family (among many) and its struggle to home ownership.
The fact this kind of redlining only became formally illegal in 1968 means that people now are still suffering from that lack of inherited wealth other people got.

I did a report on part of this in undergrad. Many major housing segregation cases weren't resolved until the 90s.

The thing with housing is that it's regulated mostly at a local level. Which is why when the federal decree came down, it took literal decades for everybody to fall in line. Even now there is still a discrimination problem in many communities, and nationally I think black and hispanics people still have an on average higher interest rates on mortgages compared to white people.

 

[Pancake Mix]

This is not good, but obviously it's an average.

In poor rural areas and rural states...it's a lot closer. They don't see that extra wealth. So you're seeing a racial divide, but there's a urban-rural divide that you're not seeing, bear that in mind.

It's all a messy situation without any quick solution.