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[EekTheKat]

The curveball in this news is really the whole "Oh yeah, and we've been working on our next gen GeForce tech too" tacked on to the "we've been working with sony for 2 years" bit.

Granted I guess it's a way to reassure people they're not abandoning the PC market altogether, but just tossing it in here just makes you wonder a lot about what's really going on.

It's like the cherry on top of this speculation sundae.

 

[acklame]

well one thing is for sure, and that's i should've bought Nvidia's stock. :lol

 

[MightyHedgehog]

cybamerc, like I said...middle of the road. Some of the capabilities of their consoles were far better than the competition, but there were other more sorely lacking ones in there, as well. Of course, everyone has to compromise something to raise something else...Nintendo just seems to do it more extremely.

SNES...slow CPU and lacking in overall sprite capability compared to Genesis.

N64...little RAM...cartridge format when everyone else went for optical disc.

GC...limited media format than competitors...less capable in many graphical areas than XBOX.

Not saying they suck, but rather, that Ninty seems to make more compromises in their hardware's capability for one reason or another compared to their competitors. Lately, it seems that they are trying hard to push hardware innovation over general capability. Rev. might be the same as DS, in this respect.

 

[deadhorse32]

It's been speculated that Sony would team up with Nvidia ever since Jen-Hsun called PS3 a "miracle machine". This news hardly comes completely out of the blue.

yeah i don't get the people saying it's a big surprise. That comment from NVidia was a real giver.

And MrSingh announced it 3 days ago on THIS board


edit :

Playstation 3

29/08/2003
By: TVG Staff

nVidia For PS3???

CNN alleges that Sony and nVidia are in talks to provide graphics technology for the Playstation3; we round up the facts...

http://www.totalvideogames.com/pages/articles/index.php?article_id=4594

CNN WINS


edit2

I can't find a real website, only usenet

Sprite Scaler Aug 12 2003, 3:08 pm show options

http://www.visualwebcaster.com/event.asp?id=12272


go to the 24 min mark, start listening there.


Nvidia's CEO talks about the uncertainty of building XB2 because of
all the resources it will take. how only a few companies have the
critical mass (in engineering) and expertise to build consoles on the
level of what is coming next-gen. Nvidia, he says, is on good terms
with all three console makers


(Nintendo and Nvidia working together seem most unlikely though, imho)


He talks about PS3 and CELL, that PS3 technology is
"pretty intimidating" and that its gonna be a "miracle machine".
A major hint about NVIDIA helping Sony with PS3, or nothing more
than looking forward to the next-gen consoles????


yeah, is this some months old but still worth listening to because
that segment your going to zoom over too deals with what kind of an
R&D effort it takes to build a game console, today or in the next few
years, be it for Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft.

http://groups-beta.google.com/group..._doneTitle=Back+to+Search&&d#4423f492a8e527e4

 

[Diffense]

IMO, dedicated PS3 GPU = good news.

PS2 would have been a better console with one. The EE wouldn't have been saddled with tasks competing consoles do quite efficiently (and cost effectively) on their GPUs. Maybe then we'd have seen some real emotion instead of just eye-piercing 'jaggies'.

 

[DCharlie]

"And MrSingh announced it 3 days ago on THIS board "

... but but but ...

we have shit sources!

 

[cybamerc]

cybamerc, like I said...middle of the road.

Hardly. Compared to its direct competitors SNES and N64 were unquestionably more capable in regards to graphics. Neither system were perfect but no system is. Your little list of complaints just shows ignorance on the matter.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Well, I suppose we'll have to see.

 

[thorns]

As correctly assumed by the skeptics here, the two-year number is sleight of hand. As of one year ago, the collaboration between nVidia and Sony was apparently not finalized, and rather was being explored as one of two or more PS3 GPU possibilities. Sony attempted but apparently failed to develop a graphics solution in-house, and as I understand it was approached by nVidia with the suggestion that a competitive solution would require shader and other technologies Sony was ill-equipped to deliver on par with ATI's Xbox2/NR chips.

From what was said by an nVidia insider at the time, Sony's in-house solution was set to be little more than a dramatic polygon count evolution of the PS2's graphics chip, scaled in rough approximation to the PS1-PS2 jump, with relatively few new hardware effects (and perhaps lacking support for emergent display technologies). The theory behind nVidia's discussions with Sony was that the Japanese hardware and software development communities had generally missed the boat on the various next-generation shadowing, texturing, shading, and geometry technologies incorporated into ATI and nVidia chipsets, and consequently had fallen behind Western developers on the software development curve for such features.

Now that all of the major console hardware players have partnered with Western graphics chipmakers, the expectation is that the next generation (or two) of software will begin to show more dramatic visual gains than the last one did. EA's recent "screenshots", for example, aren't too far off from reality except in the specifics.

I kinda believe this, it seems Sony couldn't build a capable GPU of its own, so is going to use Nvidia tech. I think the Xbox2 and PS3 will be relatively close in terms of GPUs.

 

[Elios83]

Not when it's on the PC platform. PC software never fully takes advantage of the hardware. You know that. And wasn't that the Geforce 4 Ultra era anyhow?

When PS2 chips were ready to be produced, they were TNT2 times. When PS2 git the market, they were GeForce 1 times.

With Sony expertise in chip design and the joint effort from nVidia regarding graphics solutions I think PS3 will be simply unrivalled.

 

[gofreak]

Shh...listen! I think you can just about hear the sound of a few million fanboys and critics being silenced, and a few more furiously readying counter-arguments.. :lol

 

[cybamerc]

Panajev hinted at this a very long time ago, wonder if he knew anything.

http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=26008

Panajev just loves to speculate.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Yep. Which is the best part of the announcement if u ask me.

Oh yeah...


Compiler for APUs/SPUs, Multi-Threading and Multi-Tasking CELL OS, nVIDIA software and tools for the GPU, etc...

.

 

[Panajev2001a]

http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=26008

Panajev just loves to speculate.

I just speculated... or did I ?

:lol


I like to educately speculate, but that there was a race between two manufacturers for the GPU was a well kept secret .

 

[acklame]

pana has arrived...only three pages late :lol

 

[TekunoRobby]

Panajev2001a has moxie, I'm ashamed you people don't know that.

 

[Panajev2001a]

It's worded oddly, but I'm also reading it also as a custom GPU "incorporating" Geforce Tech and "SCEI's system solutions for next-generation computer entertainment systems".

This means NV5X tech and lots (hopefully) of fast e-DRAM in which SCEI and Toshiba have a very good know-how.

 

[Panajev2001a]

"And MrSingh announced it 3 days ago on THIS board "

... but but but ...

we have shit sources!

No, no, no... shit sources would say that SCE is working with nVIDIA and then they would take that back a few weeks later and say that chances are way too slim now .

J/K man, I am only goofing around .

 

[Fafalada]

No, no, no... shit sources would say that SCE is working with nVIDIA and then they would take that back a few weeks later and say that chances are way too slim now

And then they would add some stuff about internal designs to depress everyone...

Come to think of it that was probably all tactics - consider how much more impact the news have on you now

Speaking off, what's with the calm replies Pana. Where's the wrestler photos and "wooooo"s

 

[gofreak]

Pana - do you think the extent of Sony's contribution is limited to edram, or do you think there might there be a " fuller" incorporation of cell tech in this GPU?

Speculate, damnit!

 

[DSN2K]

Nvidia are going to be making so much money on this its unreal.

just think of the royalities on a console what sells about 20m a year and a platform known for its massive software sales.

 

[maskrider]

Nvidia are going to be making so much money on this its unreal.

just think of royalities on a console what sells about 20m a year and platform known for its massive software sales.

That's why PS3 will be a "miracle machine", at least a monetory miracle.

BTW, I am not surprised.

 

[Izzy]

Look at what I posted on OA a couple of weeks ago:

10:23AM Mike Tarsala's TechWatch Alert -- RMBS (RMBS) 24.34 +2.17: Analysts we reached this morning say that Rambus is very likely to benefit from the Cell processor announced today by Sony (SNE), IBM (IBM) and Toshiba (TOSBF). Of note, Rambus announced back in January 2003 that it had licensed its XDR memory and its Redwood high-speed parallel interface (its Yellowstone and Redwood technologies) to Sony and Toshiba. While IBM was NOT MENTIONED in that 2003 release, Big Blue is known for having a strict approval process when its name appears in other company's press releases. Another company analysts have mentioned as possible benefactor from the Cell processor, which is expected to go toe-to-toe with Intel in the home entertainment (specifically the multimedia living room) could be graphics-processor maker Nvidia (NVDA) -- although none of the analysts offered any specific proof. More details on the Cell processor are expected to be announced at the International Solid State Circuits Conference, which is scheduled to begin on Feb. 6 in San Francisco.

Izzy 11/29/04 07:15 PM Post #5
Advanced Member


Perhaps, but maybe Nvidia is designing the PS3 GPU, and in return Sony is giving them a free licence to use the Cell tech in their future PC GPUs.

Guess I was right - and this is H U G E.
Link

 

[Che]

AWESOME I repeat AWESOME news. Cell + Nvidia GPU and middleware means that PS3 will be a unmatchable monster. *happy dances*

 

[Panajev2001a]

pana has arrived...only three pages late :lol

I live in the East coast... IT IS NOT MY FAAAAAAAAAULT (I just woke up ).

 

[DCharlie]

"And then they would add some stuff about internal designs to depress everyone...

Come to think of it that was probably all tactics - consider how much more impact the news have on you now "

and as you both know, what is even MORE fucked up is the people who DON'T/DIDN'T know about this.

 

[gofreak]

I'm thinking NVidia were plodding along with a seperate NV50 (the one we were all hearing about) up until they got final confirmation from Sony that they had been picked(a couple of weeks ago, or more perhaps), and then canned that NV50 to go full steam ahead with their work with Sony?

Really really interesting stuff..

 

[sonycowboy]

Well,

That about wraps it up for Microsoft.

 

[Panajev2001a]

And then they would add some stuff about internal designs to depress everyone...

Come to think of it that was probably all tactics - consider how much more impact the news have on you now

Speaking off, what's with the calm replies Pana. Where's the wrestler photos and "wooooo"s

You are right...

I must go from this...

to

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO






P.S.:he is not "a wrestler"... He is The Nature Boy Ric Flair .

 

[Che]

Well, not to totally derail this or anything, but I just don't hold out much hope for Nintendo on the visual capability end...they always seem to end up with generally middle of the road capability, relative to their competitors.

Well, considering the possibility that Revolution will launch six months or more after Xenon and the fact that ATI has been working on Revolution's GPU way more than Xenon's, adding the statemants of MS that they want to make profit this time and that Nintendo will invest more this time, I think there's a pretty big possibility that Revolution will produce better graphics than Xenon. On the other side now that everything is known for PS3 I pretty much doubt that anyone could compete with them in the graphics department.

 

[gofreak]

I agree, I think it'll end up as PS3 > Revolution >= Xbox2

Or perhaps PS3 >> Revolution >= Xbox2..or PS3 >>>...

 

[Vieo]

Does this mean Chun-li's boobies will have more bounce in the next Street Fighter?

 

[Deg]

Not interesting news at all. Next gen tech would be too problematic for Sony alone. No surprise they went with nvidia. Would have preffered ATI. Much more of a gain for Nvidia.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Well, considering the possibility that Revolution will launch six months or more after Xenon and the fact that ATI has been working on Revolution's GPU way more than Xenon's, adding the statemants of MS that they want to make profit this time and that Nintendo will invest more this time, I think there's a pretty big possibility that Revolution will produce better graphics than Xenon. On the other side now that everything is known for PS3 I pretty much doubt that anyone could compete with them in the graphics department.

Xenon is getting big support from ATI though.

 

[Spike]

GC...limited media format than competitors...less capable in many graphical areas than XBOX.

You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you?

With the exception of the Xbox being able to handle 8 harware lights as opposed to the Cube's 6, there really is no difference other than the amount of memory in the units.

And ATI has been working with Nintendo on the Revolution even before Microsoft announced they had partnered with ATI. I don't expect there to be much difference between the systems graphically. I just wish these companies would start showing something already. I want to get a taste of the next gen already.

 

[WordofGod]

I know Xbox 2 uses Shader 3.0, so does that mean the PS3 will use Shader 4.0 now that Nvidia is making the GPU? How big of a difference is Shader 3.0 compared to Shader 4.0?

EDIT:

I know the Xbox 2 GPU uses Shader 3.0, so does that mean the PS3 GPU will use Shader 4.0 now that Nvidia is making the GPU? How big of a difference is Shader 3.0 compared to Shader 4.0?

 

[Spike]

Xenon is getting big support from ATI though.

Mind elaborating?

 

[ThirdEye]

I know Xbox 2 uses Shader 3.0, so does that mean the PS3 will use Shader 4.0 now that Nvidia is making the GPU? How big of a difference is Shader 3.0 compared to Shader 4.0?

There's no such thing as 'Shader Model' in PS3 as 'Shader Model' is an MS tech

 

[Vortac]

Che you got it a bit backwards there...Revolution is the same road as Xenon, more cost friendly.

 

[DCharlie]

lol.

Service pack 3 for Windows :

Improved Security
Faster calls in Direct X
Removal of redundant features (Hidden macros for tech demo, staff list, removal of Nvidea graphics card support)

 

[Spike]

lol.

Service pack 3 for Windows :

Improved Security
Faster calls in Direct X
Removal of redundant features (Hidden macros for tech demo, staff list, removal of Nvidea graphics card support)

:lol

 

[WordofGod]

There's no such thing as 'Shader Model' in PS3 as 'Shader Model' is an MS tech

Y?

 

[gofreak]

There's no such thing as 'Shader Model' in PS3 as 'Shader Model' is an MS tech

I guess there will be "equivalents" though..expect lots of arguments in the next year or so over who has better "shaders" etc.

 

[gofreak]

Y?

Shader Model 3.0/4.0 is a directX thing. Expect Sony to go with something more like OpenGL's shading language or their own custom model.

 

[WordofGod]

Shader Model 3.0/4.0 is a directX thing. Expect Sony to go with something more like OpenGL's shading language or their own custom model.

Thank you

 

[Che]

Che you got it a bit backwards there...Revolution is the same road as Xenon, more cost friendly.

As I said Nintendo has stated that they'll invest a lot of money this time, and Microsoft that they want to make a profit. So Mightyheghog's opinion, who is certain that Revolution's graphics will be inferior compared to Xenon's, can be totally false.. Btw I need more info on PS3 and Nvidia. Anything...

 

[vesuvious]

With this announcement I am wondering if Sony and Nvidia will find a solution for backwards compatibility with PS1 and PS2 software. Initially, I believe Sony wanted PS3 to be backwards compatible. Will Sony just include a chip in the PS3 that is capable of reading PS2 and PS1 discs, or is this going to be a situation where Sony, like Microsoft, has to abandon backwards compatability?

 

[Fafalada]

That's more like it Pana

P.S.:he is not "a wrestler"... He is The Nature Boy Ric Flair

Details details

and as you both know, what is even MORE fucked up is the people who DON'T/DIDN'T know about this

Well perhaps Sony ninjas are better at their work then any of us realized

 

[Che]

lol.

Service pack 3 for Windows :

Improved Security
Faster calls in Direct X
Removal of redundant features (Hidden macros for tech demo, staff list, removal of Nvidea graphics card support)

:lol:lol:lol

 

[Izzy]

Former DC fans should love this: Nvidia/Sony PS3 GPU is probably tile based renderer.

Patent

Now that, quite clearly, is a tiled/deffered renderer very much in the style of PowerVR. But it goes one step further to sort and manage primatives by a bounding box heirarchy, which overcomes one of PowerVR's real limits (building a bsp of primatives per tile). It also appears to be able to store and compsite overlapping 'bricks'(tiles).

This sounds *very* much like the Talisman design.