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[Deleted member 17706]

The people who are making the decisions either have their hands tied, are being paid off, or are acting on bad information. Maybe a combination of those things. That's really how this whole thing got started, of course.

 

[radioactivez0r]

Evrybody should look on YouTube for "Sugar - The Bitter Truth".
A great lecture of the scientific workings of sugar in the body and how it ends up causing an endless cycle of unhealthy eating.

I'm sure you are aware of this so I don't mean to call you out, but that's the last thing that is going to change anyone's eating habits - a science lecture. As mentioned by others, there needs to be a real incentive to change ingrained habits like this. Promote riding a bike? I have a car that works fine and is easier, why would I ride a bike? Make it about why it's better for me on a day to day basis, not "because it's healthier for you" because who gives a shit. That is the attitude that has to be overcome.

 

[Foffy]

All efforts my dick.

When your middle class is dying and the only cost-effective food people can buy is fast food, do you really think you can curb a problem based in affordability? As easy as it is to say "eat right," you have an entire generation of people where this may be out of reach, more difficult than it needs or should be.

Then there's the problem where everything is essentially "drugged" up with sugars.

 

[igordennis]

I'm sure you are aware of this so I don't mean to call you out, but that's the last thing that is going to change anyone's eating habits - a science lecture. As mentioned by others, there needs to be a real incentive to change ingrained habits like this. Promote riding a bike? I have a car that works fine and is easier, why would I ride a bike? Make it about why it's better for me on a day to day basis, not "because it's healthier for you" because who gives a shit. That is the attitude that has to be overcome.

Of course, a video on youtube wont do anything of significance to change a nation's eating habits unfortunately. The video is still great though, and spreading some knowledge is always good. Folks should still watch it: https://youtu.be/dBnniua6-oM

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I'm sure you are aware of this so I don't mean to call you out, but that's the last thing that is going to change anyone's eating habits - a science lecture. As mentioned by others, there needs to be a real incentive to change ingrained habits like this. Promote riding a bike? I have a car that works fine and is easier, why would I ride a bike? Make it about why it's better for me on a day to day basis, not "because it's healthier for you" because who gives a shit. That is the attitude that has to be overcome.

For people interested in getting healthy, knowledge is the most powerful tool. Many people actually do not want to be fat, but don't know where to get good information that will help them.

Riding a bike when you're fat is a miserable experience and it won't make you not fat. You need to also dramatically change the diet that made you fat in the first place.

Promoting intensive cardio exercise for overweight people is terribly misguided. It's torture and not very effective at losing weight. It will actually lead to eating even more garbage for a lot of people.

 

[igordennis]

For people interested in getting healthy, knowledge is the most powerful tool. Many people actually do not want to be fat, but don't know where to get good information that will help them.

Riding a bike when you're fat is a miserable experience and it won't make you not fat. You need to also dramatically change the diet that made you fat in the first place.

Promoting intensive cardio exercise for overweight people is terribly misguided. It's torture and not very effective at losing weight. It will actually lead to eating even more garbage for a lot of people.

Yeah, you wont stop being obese with cardio. Like its impossible. You eat a candy bar and you gotta run for 90 minutes to burn it or something like that. The only way to control your weight is through dieting. Knowing what and how much you eat.

 

[titiklabingapat]

It's probably because they science they use for it is terribad.

Only recently have they, the Federal and State governments, started recognizing that most of the 'traditional' knowledge (fat is bad, cholesterol in food is bad, eat as much carbs as you want) are wrong.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Yeah, you wont stop being obese with cardio. Like its impossible. You eat a candy bar and you gotta run for 90 minutes to burn it or something like that. The only way to control your weight is through dieting.

Unfortunately, the first thing people will typically recommend is "eat less and move more" as if it's gospel. No wonder literally no one is successful, statistically speaking.

Promoting such a miserable recipe must appeal to the protestant values that are so ingrained in American culture.

 

[Stike]

I'm sure you are aware of this so I don't mean to call you out, but that's the last thing that is going to change anyone's eating habits - a science lecture. As mentioned by others, there needs to be a real incentive to change ingrained habits like this. Promote riding a bike? I have a car that works fine and is easier, why would I ride a bike? Make it about why it's better for me on a day to day basis, not "because it's healthier for you" because who gives a shit. That is the attitude that has to be overcome.

True, and I agree.
"Regular Joe" won't change his way of life by seeing some scientific explanation.

I am a bit of a science/knowledge guy, so this may at least appeal to SOME people, and it may help finding a method to spread the knowledge to others.

 

[FZZ]

"All efforts"

What a bunch of bullshit. How about targeting and raising awareness of how bad sugar is for you? Smfh. They just added the daily recommended value, until they put more effort to raise awareness of how much sugar can fuck you over obesity will just keep on rising.

 

[Psychotext]

Of course, a video on youtube wont do anything of significance to change a nation's eating habits unfortunately. The video is still great though, and spreading some knowledge is always good. Folks should still watch it: https://youtu.be/dBnniua6-oM

Not that it's worth going into here, but that video gets plenty wrong (there's quite a bit of analysis out there on the web), and that aside, demonising sugar isn't going to do much more for us than demonising fat did.

The story is as it always has been. Everything in moderation. People just don't like moderation.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Not that it's worth going into here, but that video gets plenty wrong (there's quite a bit of analysis out there on the web), and that aside, demonising sugar isn't going to do much more for us than demonising fat did.

The story is as it always has been. Everything in moderation. People just don't like moderation.

Moderation is a fantasy.

Demonizing dietary fat was tremendously effective. Look at the numbers and Americans consume a lot less fat and a lot more carbohydrates than they did in the past. People are following the advice. Product manufacturers capitalized on it and made "low-fat" and "non-fat" the de facto option in supermarkets.

Of course the effect was that people got terribly obese, but that's besides the point. The demonization of it led to a massive change in behavior.

Reversing that may be difficult, but if sugar had been demonized instead of fat, I guarantee that our obesity problem would not be what it is today.

 

[ShowDog]

Until wages improve people will continue to work long hours and eat cheap, quick, shitty foods. There are plenty of healthy options out there if you have the time/money/energy.

 

[Psychotext]

Reversing that may be difficult, but if sugar had been demonized instead of fat, I guarantee that our obesity problem would not be what it is today.

Yes, because stopping eating sugar fixes everything. It's that simple, how stupid of us.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Another huge thing being overlooked in obesity science is the effect of the design of our cities and neighborhood. We have designed most of our living spaces to be traversed by car and only started focusing on walkability and other modes recently. This, I suspect (and backed by recent studies) have just as much to do (if not more!) with the obesity pandemic as much as the food choices we make.

 

[igordennis]

Yes, because stopping eating sugar fixes everything. It's that simple, how stupid of us.

Not stopping, drastically lowering the ammount people eat. And yes i'd wager it would've more for the US than what lowering fat consuption did (read: nothing).

 

[Princess Carl]

Lol at "all efforts".

 

[ShyMel]

"Despite all efforts" I didn't realize that grocery stores suddenly popped up in poorer communities at prices affordable to them.

 

[Aurongel]

I'm not even convinced that raising wages will help with the matter when fast food is just more convenient in the context of time and addicting to boot. Having more money in that case would just be a gateway to buying more shitty food you're already addicted to.

 

[watershed]

I swear a report from earlier in the year said that childhood obesity was down and we were beginning to see a reliable downward trend with childhood obesity specifically?

It's not surprising that adult obesity is up as government has less influence over what adults eat, learn, or do with their time.

 

[Malvolio]

This country is addicted to eating foods and consuming beverages that provide significantly too much glucose to our bodies. Food providers know this and capitalize on it at every opportunity. This is the big tobacco issue all over again.

Exercise is not the answer. Sure, it is a fantastic part of a healthy lifestyle, but you don't overcome sugar addiction with it. You would have just as much success telling a heroin addict to start running more if he wants to kick his habit.

 

[RedShift]

Until governments grow a pair and actually stand up to the companies making billions from this don't expect anything to change.

The fact that companies like Coke and Macdonalds are allowed to advertise to kids and sponsor the fucking Olympics/World Cup is insane, but no one is willing to do anything about it.

 

[Davey Cakes]

Yes, because stopping eating sugar fixes everything. It's that simple, how stupid of us.

Sugar isn't the only problem but it's probably the biggest one.

Demonizing fat was bad. Because, similar to sugar, there are different kinds of fat and not all are detrimental to health.

Fat can be GREAT for you, just like the natural sugars in fruit. It's why legumes and nuts are high calorie but still healthy.

Not all "low fat" options are bad, but without looking at the nutrition label, people can easily delude themselves into thinking they're eating something remarkably healthier just because it's "low fat." Think of something like low fat frozen yogurt or ice cream. Yeah, they lessened the fat but look at the sugar; it either increased or stayed the same. And the sugar is probably worse in the long run.

Full fat food items are also really satiating, so long as you have control of your appetite. Eat less of full fat as opposed to more of reduced fat.

And, if these companies are not increasing sugar while reducing fat, they're increasing something else, such as sodium which isn't great in large quantities either.

It's like we're in a constant battle to find the balance.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

All efforts lol.

Did they try to stop the vast farming subsidies that give a vast surplus of corn which is made into super-cheap HFCS which American food companies slather most of their products in?

Obesity is strongly correlated to poverty. Did they try any credible efforts to vastly reduce economic inequality?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Yes, because stopping eating sugar fixes everything. It's that simple, how stupid of us.

It fixes a hell of a lot and is a good step in the right direction.

If the war against fat had been a war against sugar, there would not be an obesity epidemic. There would surely still be obese people, but not nearly to the degree that we see today.

Even if you believe that it's simply all about calories and that the sources of said calories do not matter, you should still understand that almost all of the junk food and drink out there that is commonly associated with overeating could not exist without sugar.

 

[Beer Monkey]

What effect does fat shaming have on the increase of obesity?

Well, countries like Japan that really fat shame have a hell of a lot less obesity. So I'm going to go with fat shaming doesn't increase obesity.

Here's a radical idea. Let's teach kids to calorie count, in school.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Well, countries like Japan that really fat shame have a hell of a lot less obesity. So I'm going to go with fat shaming doesn't increase obesity.

Correlation =/= causation.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

Well, countries like Japan that really fat shame have a hell of a lot less obesity. So I'm going to go with fat shaming doesn't increase obesity.

Here's a radical idea. Let's teach kids to calorie count, in school.

Japan is also more collectivistic. Not saying you're right but it's one reason why fat shaming may work there but not here.

 

[Particle Physicist]

How effective can these efforts be when there is so much push back like when the First Lady was attempting to make school lunches healthier? :/

 

[Madness]

They didn't try a single thing besides 'information'. They're still beholden to junk food and fast food companies and corporations. They're fought tooth and nail at every single step. If adult obesity is a losing battle, make sure the next generation is better. Forced physical education for children. Spend some of those military billions in free memberships to the gym. People can barely afford to eat healthy food. A cheeseburger is a dollar available on every street corner.

 

[Messofanego]

Well, countries like Japan that really fat shame have a hell of a lot less obesity. So I'm going to go with fat shaming doesn't increase obesity.

Here's a radical idea. Let's teach kids to calorie count, in school.

I think we're forgetting Japan have a much healthier diet (fish, fruits, veg) in general and don't have as many portions with smaller plates (they eat 25% less calories than Americans) while having much more rice which gets them full up faster on less calories. When Japanese have a Western diet, they put on weight as quickly.

 

[CountAntonius]

Losing weight takes effort. Eating cheap addictive fried food does not. That will always be the problem.

 

[arevin01]

How do I know if I'm officially obese?

 

[Beer Monkey]

Japan is also more collectivistic. Not saying you're right but it's one reason why fat shaming may work there but not here.

I'm not advocating fat shaming, I'm just saying that there isn't evidence that fat shaming increases obesity. None.

I'm advocating education. We should be teaching elementary health classes where kids are taught things like:

1) Eating at a caloric surplus causes weight gain.
2) Obesity causes health problems and shortens life expectancy and is a major burden on our health care system and society.
3) Americans eat over 500 more calories per day than they did 50 years ago.
4) Honey and sugar are no more healthy than HFCS and all added sugar is dangerous when not used in moderation.
5) Artificial sweeteners are safe and a good tool for reducing caloric intake.
6) How to count calories accurately.

It's kind of crazy that we don't given this insane obesity epidemic and its impact on our public health.

I think we're forgetting Japan have a much healthier diet (fish, fruits, veg) in general and don't have as many portions with smaller plates (they eat 25% less calories than Americans) while having much more rice which gets them full up faster on less calories.

They also shame the hell out of people for being fat. Tax them, even. Does anybody seriously think our lax attitudes towards obesity and gluttony in America is a good thing? Why are smoking and drug abuse the only things left that we can admit are unhealthy voluntary behaviors?

 

[Messofanego]

How do I know if I'm officially obese?

When you need to bend over to see your feet.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Are you buying organic or something? $1100 for two people is insane.

$550 per person month at 90 meals is $6.11 a meal, which kinda crazy. Like, if you had a carton of eggs and a package of sausages and a tub of yogurt for breakfast, you'd be spending about $6--but actually that's something more like 5 or 6 breakfasts worth of food. I'm not sure how you'd get to $6 a meal, especially not with the cost savings of buying for two.

 

[deltatheta]

I think the reasons are pretty obvious. Sedentary lifestyle, sprawled out, unwalkable cities, unhealthy food being readily available and cheap everywhere in huge portions while healthy options are unavailable and unappealing, the shrinking middle class and the expectation to work more hours, and a hundred other things is just making an environment where it's harder and harder to maintain a healthy weight.

The obesity rate is just going to keep going up, though. People just won't be convinced that there are more significant factors than fat people lacking willpower.

 

[Beer Monkey]

I think the reasons are pretty obvious. Sedentary lifestyle, sprawled out, unwalkable cities, unhealthy food being readily available and cheap everywhere in huge portions while healthy options are unavailable and unappealing, the shrinking middle class and the expectation to work more hours, and a hundred other things is just making an environment where it's harder and harder to maintain a healthy weight.

The obesity rate is just going to keep going up, though. People just won't be convinced that there are more significant factors than fat people lacking willpower.

Six years ago I was obese. I lost 60lb, and have managed to retain 40 or more pounds of that loss at all times ever since. I'm still overweight and am working on losing another 40. Along the way I learned a lot of things about myself and my own misconceptions about weight, diet, exercise, and calories. I believed a lot of things that are not grounded in evidence, and I had completely misjudged how many calories I actually consume, as do most people. And I came to the realization that our society is collectively living in the dark as I once was myself.

Education. It starts with education. Most people aren't going to educate themselves, they are just going to keep going on believing what they want to believe and validating it with confirmation bias. So we have to educate them. We need to do it in school, with children. Start young. It's harder to get people to unlearn nonsense than to teach them the truth from the start. Our public schools need to be teaching kids about what we have been consuming and what it causes, and how we can change that.

It's silly to blame willpower when so many people believe a bunch of nonsense. You've got to understand before you can implement.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

$550 per person month at 90 meals is $6.11 a meal, which kinda crazy. Like, if you had a carton of eggs and a package of sausages and a tub of yogurt for breakfast, you'd be spending about $6--but actually that's something more like 5 or 6 breakfasts worth of food. I'm not sure how you'd get to $6 a meal, especially not with the cost savings of buying for two.

That certainly does seem high.

And I thought I spent a lot at around $600 ~ $800 per month for my wife, me, and my son.

I'm not advocating fat shaming, I'm just saying that there isn't evidence that fat shaming increases obesity. None.

I'm advocating education. We should be teaching elementary health classes where kids are taught things like:

1) Eating at a caloric surplus causes weight gain.
2) Obesity causes health problems and shortens life expectancy and is a major burden on our health care system and society.
3) Americans eat over 500 more calories per day than they did 50 years ago.
4) Honey and sugar are no more healthy than HFCS and all added sugar is dangerous when not used in moderation.
5) Artificial sweeteners are safe and a good tool for reducing caloric intake.
6) How to count calories accurately.

It's kind of crazy that we don't given this insane obesity epidemic and its impact on our public health.

This ideal world of yours where average people are keeping food logs and "counting their calories" is a complete fantasy. It's just not realistic at all. I agree with you about education, but focusing on calories is not the way to go. I guess our disagreement represents why it's difficult to come to a consensus on what the right education should be.

 

[Charles Foster Kane]

I bet gay guys balance out that minority gap lol.

lol

 

[Beer Monkey]

This ideal world of yours where average people are keeping food logs and "counting their calories" is a complete fantasy. It's just not realistic at all.

MyFitnessPal: Fantasy app/site. Very popular. Free. Schools have computer labs. Students taking a health class could have homework/projects where you count calories.

It's very realistic.

I agree with you about education, but focusing on calories is not the way to go

Science disagrees with you.

 

[Nudull]

I see some people are already good and set to throw obese people under the bus instead of treating them and their struggles with health and everything like normal human beings. Cycle goes on and on.

 

[Dazza]

So.. I've been trying to figure out what us Asians are doing that is so different. We have our own health issues like increased diabetes from all the rice we eat but not obesity.. I guess we're generally a bit more well off financially which = better healthy food choices and options. Many are also thrifty (cheap), and at least for the east Asians I know our dishes seem to have more veggies than the average American foods. And our elderly are really into light exercise like taking walks, taichi and randomly stretching everywhere.

edit: and at least for the Chinese, we don't have the concept of eating dessert after a meal. It's usually eat a few slices of orange and go take a walk. Our sweets kinda suck anyways.

I think it's the Hara Hachi Bu rule of eating only till you're 80% full. Honestly a lot of people confuse the feeling of not being full to being hungry.

There is less processed food in asia, or rather an emphasis on non processed food. And as you say there is a lot more vegetables, way more fiber, and more bitter tasting foods.

Obesity is starting to take hold in Asia too though, I've noticed definite changes in the last decade

 

[Dethklok707]

I found the problem right here in this thread. Obesity is not a fat person's fault. Cars go vroom vroom with their more than ever comfy seats mind you, healthy food costs more than gold (per ounce), corn subsidies increase the amount of drive-by corn attacks into your mouth, and 27 hour work days allow time only for eating, work, pooping, and work, no other activities.

We have to stop pointing the fingers on all topics at all times. There are absolutely people that get it done

You can shut down the high fructose corn industry completely, and people will still be fat. They will still pound beers, sodas, eat snacks like crazy, see who you can eat the most fast food, and refuse to exercise. It's laughable to think we remove all of the corn and then everyone starts pounding celery stalks.

Healthy food can be purchased without making you bankrupt. A head of lettuce is $1. A bag of chicken is only a few dollars. Stop buying soda and sugary drinks, drink water instead. Pass on the snacks and just stop binge eating. If you must, a bag of baby carrots is $1. My poorest friend is the healthiest, and that's after he has made lifestyle changes.

As much as I don't condone "fat shaming", it's a product of we as society not taking this epidemic seriously enough. Poor lifestyle choices are not beautiful. It should not be the new normal. You can't look at the people you love and tell them that everyone is wrong, and to just pretend everything is ok. Be respectful. Go to the gym with them. Eat healthy with them. Show them you really care.

Considering it is costing mass amounts of money in healthcare expenses, perhaps there should be some sort of financial motivation to stay healthy. Maybe you get a tax deduction/healthcare premium deduction to maintain a certain BMI. I doubt we would ever get this right as a country. However, there's no doubting that obesity are causing costs of healthcare to skyrocket.

The problem is you can't force anyone to do anything. You can't even ask anymore otherwise the freedoms are all gone. So what do you do?

 

[SapientWolf]

I don't think it's a time issue at all. It takes less time to cook frozen veggies than to go to the drive through. 15 minutes of high intensity exercise a day has served me well for years. Bottom line is that most people just don't care enough to change their lifestyle. Or they don't have the mental toughness to do so. Unhealthy food tastes great and sitting on the couch feels good too. But healthy living doesn't pay off for awhile.

It's the same reason why most Americans don't save money. It's the inability to delay gratification.

 

[GorillaJu]

Man reading this thread and the breakdowns of food costs made me realize I spend kind of absurd amounts of money on food every month. I could easily shave 200-300 off my food costs if I ate out less (and stopped buying 500 yen drinks so often -_-)

 

[Fury451]

Unfortunately, the first thing people will typically recommend is "eat less and move more" as if it's gospel. No wonder literally no one is successful, statistically speaking.

Promoting such a miserable recipe must appeal to the protestant values that are so ingrained in American culture.

I don't disagree with the first part of your post, but I'm really hard pressed to figure out what you mean by the bold section here.

 

[AoM]

I don't disagree with the first part of your post, but I'm really hard pressed to figure out what you mean by the bold section here.

It seems to be the go-to thing.

 

[Eighty Deuce]

If we hadn't bailed out banks we would have hit a Great Depression thus causing millions to eat less and solve the obesity epidemic. Obama bailed out the fat cats

 

[cdyhybrid]

Ridiculous. There's so much more that could be done to fight it.