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[snatches]

No, try gamers. Talented studios that can dedicate 100% of their resources to a base platform and exploit the hardware down the metal as much as possible are always going to have a significant advantage over middleware solutions that have to cater to platform agnostic abstraction and lowest common denominators. There's exceptions of course, but exclusives (or even timed exclusives, which I have no beef with) are predominantly the most polished, fully leveraged games on any given platform. Increased concurrent multi-platform development may be good for the wallet (if you hope to stick to one console), but I think its universally bad for overall quality.

Yes, this has always been a valid point.

Which is why we need a Sony Playstation with a Microsoft online service and OS, and a Nintendo waggle-wand sold seperately.

This is the only way I would be happy with a one console future.

Make it happen you greedy bastards. Death to fanboys.

 

[C4Lukins]

Gran Turismo
SOCOM: US Navy Seals
Killzone
Jak & Daxter
Rachet & Clank
Sly Cooper
God of War
Twisted Metal
Shadow of the Colossus
Syphon Filter

All Sony 1st party franchises.
All multi-million dollar franchises.
All performed above expectations worldwide in all territories.

Microsoft would be glad to have any one of these under their belt.

Are you joking? Killzone performed above expectations? Syphon Filter, (over the past 5 years)? Shit even Gran Turismo saw a huge drop off. Gran Turismo is still huge though as are some of those others. But do not inflate your list because it only hurts your point.

 

[Kittonwy]

Are you joking? Killzone performed above expectations? Syphon Filter, (over the past 5 years)? Shit even Gran Turismo saw a huge drop off. Gran Turismo is still huge though as are some of those others. But do not inflate your list because it only hurts your point.

Didn't Killzone sell a couple of million copies in Europe or something? I think if they hype Killzone 2 like nobody's business even if it's relatively decent in gameplay, if it's pretty-looking it will sell a ton.

 

[Mau ®]

Are you joking? Killzone performed above expectations? Syphon Filter, (over the past 5 years)? Shit even Gran Turismo saw a huge drop off. Gran Turismo is still huge though as are some of those others. But do not inflate your list because it only hurts your point.

Killzone actually did really great despite its supposed crappiness.

Gran Turismo is still pretty big, even with the drop off.

Even so his point reamins true. Sony has alot more franchises than MS.

 

[Wollan]

Killzone actually sold 1.5million copies. That's comparable to Microsofts #2 franchise Fable.

 

[Striek]

Are you joking? Killzone performed above expectations? Syphon Filter, (over the past 5 years)? Shit even Gran Turismo saw a huge drop off. Gran Turismo is still huge though as are some of those others. But do not inflate your list because it only hurts your point.

His list doesn't need inflating. His point is well made. Its ridiculous at best to argue MS first-party is anywhere near Sony's. Hell his list (of million sellers) if far, far from complete.

As for new franchises, Sony has already announced many more than MS has.

 

[C4Lukins]

Killzone actually did really great despite its supposed crappiness.

Gran Turismo is still pretty big, even with the drop off.

Even so his point reamins true. Sony has alot more franchises than MS.

No doubt they definetly have a higher quantity of 1st party support, but most of those games are not exactly system sellers, and a few of them are shadows of what they once were. I mean some of those would be like me referencing Mech Assault as a huge property eventhough it has dwindled into obscurity and may never be heard from again.

 

[C4Lukins]

Killzone actually sold 1.5million copies. That's comparable to Microsofts #2 franchise Fable.

Damn got me there, I didn't think it did that well. But to say it beat expectations when people were hoping for it to compete with Halo is overboard. Now if Killzone 2 lives up the hype, it could be huge.

 

[DCharlie]

DCharlie takes the safe route by saying fanbois, but the truth is it is MS, because Sony's first party division crushes MS first party gaming division. I'm not only talking critical accliam, but the ability to move units in all three big regions. Too many people are overlooking Sony Worldwide Studios when talking about PS3.

actually, there are several ways you can argue this but they all rely on a couple of "IFs" which i'm trying to avoid because it's more hassle than it's worth, but just for you , here goes :

Line up wise, things obviously swing in Sonys favour if we take the idea that all 3rd parties go cross platform. That's just not arguable (if we ignore Nintendo of course!)

Some negatives for sony might be that the added power of their machine doesn't get used if some 3rd parties don't put the extra effort in to distinguish the X360 and PS3 versions of the game. I also expect the two machines to have various pros and cons meaning that certaing things can be done on one better than on the other, so (as mentioned by others) you get compromises on both platforms and the full extent of the machines aren't used. Therefore, the 'gamer' loses in the sense that they don't get the most out of their machine.

Now, so far - i'd say that this _would_ definitely swing things way in Sonys favour if this hypothetical situation happened.

However, there is one important factor that might change the whole complexion of this (and again, this incorporates several "IFs" so i know it's all not worth the post it's typed on - but , to complete the arguement). That factor is PRICE.

If all games do go cross platform and all games are pretty much the same, if MS drops the X360 retard pack to $199, and if Sony are going for an ubermachine in the $499 range, then that 'all 3rd party games on both platforms' suddenly makes the X360 very attractive (if you can live without Sony first party games).

Again, as said, this is all IFs and hypotheticals, but i'd restate the only sure fire losers will be fanboys (although we'd just see more intense first party battles)

One thing that is fantastic though, and it warms my heart to see, is that Oblivion is going to another platform and more people will get to enjoy an absolute classic. It's also nice to see that it has to be one of the least bashed games ever (given it was originally X360/PC) - the fanboys didn't try to jump on it.

 

[AranhaHunter]

Killzone actually sold 1.5million copies. That's comparable to Microsofts #2 franchise Fable.

Where did you see that? Link please?

 

[Wollan]

Where did you see that? Link please?

The dev said it at the US forums. Before the japanese release aswell as platinum release in Europe/US, the game had sold over 500k copies in the US with the EU version going well past 500k.

 

[trmas]

Imagined scene at Bethesda this afternoon

"Alright, damnit who leaked the info of a PS3 version before E3? What the #$%^ is the Gaming Age forum. It was supposed to be a #$%^ing surprise!! Now the whole world knows because somebody on GAF leaked a list we supposedly sent him.. You're fired! You're all #$%^ing fired!!"

Man, that press release says all you need to know about the validity of this information.

 

[J-Rzez]

well hopefully they work on the animation and fps... maybe make it at least on par with watching Robot Chicken or Moral Orel?

That's one of my biggest gripes with this game... they had so many ambitions, made them all show up in the game, which is very commendable, but it seems like it's at the expense of gameplay... that's just my opinion... it's like the total opposite of what Peter Molo did with Fable... they actually went with the ideas instead of chopping some out for sake of gameplay...

This doesn't really excite me unless a lot of the gameplay issues are resolved... but i'm sure a lot of the Sony gamers out there are excited...

 

[MattPeters]

Damn, Killzone did 1.5?


Christ...I thought it bombed.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Damn got me there, I didn't think it did that well. But to say it beat expectations when people were hoping for it to compete with Halo is overboard. Now if Killzone 2 lives up the hype, it could be huge.

message board fanboys were expecting it to compete with Halo. If Sony was, they would have shipped 5 million copies and you would have seen it in the $5 bargain bins by now. The game performed well enough.

 

[DCharlie]

That's one of my biggest gripes with this game... they had so many ambitions, made them all show up in the game, which is very commendable, but it seems like it's at the expense of gameplay...

like what exactly? *scratches head*

 

[Wollan]

well hopefully they work on the animation

This was an area were Killzone excelled compared to other fps imo. It had really great animation but I guess it can be hard to see with the bad fps at times. How the soldiers moved forward with hunched backs, how your own avatar interacted with the enviroment and reloaded the weapons. The game had great animation.

Im personaly firmly in the belief that Killzone PS3 will turn out to be a really great game. The first one showed so much promise but tripped in so many vital ones. With Guerrilla going Sony 1st party, the great PS3 hardware, online service, their first game out...blablabla..I think it will be a really cool game.

 

[J-Rzez]

like what exactly? *scratches head*

I like all the random events that you come across that could make it a unique experience to someone else... You can really mold your character and story/plot experience... but, they could've worked on the animations, framerates, loading stuff a lil more than worry about cramming all that other stuff in there... It was a real eyesore to me and took away from the gameplay experience...... at least those annoying Sting Ray things in vast numbers that constantly attacked you in Morrowind got removed, or didn't i get to those things yet? Plus, i wish they worked on the variety of combat a lil more... but hey... maybe that's just me... just my opinion...

 

[DCharlie]

I like all the random events that you come across that could make it a unique experience to someone else... You can really mold your character and story/plot experience... but, they could've worked on the animations, framerates, loading stuff a lil more than worry about cramming all that other stuff in there... It was a real eyesore to me and took away from the gameplay experience...... at least those annoying Sting Ray things in vast numbers that constantly attacked you in Morrowind got removed, or didn't i get to those things yet? Plus, i wish they worked on the variety of combat a lil more... but hey... maybe that's just me... just my opinion...

each to their own i guess, animation is fine if you ask me (as are the framerate and loading) and 'eyesore' is certainly the last word that springs to mind when i think of Oblivion

 

[Mrbob]

Dcharlie I agree price could be in MS favor. Honestly, i hope MS does go the super aggressive route you suggest. I wouldn't be bitter about spending more money on my launch system. Being aggressive on price shows me MS is headstrong about ensuring X360 has a healthy lifespan with great games the entire time.

 

[Drek]

Sweet. So for me this means....

No need to buy a 360 or gaming rig.

PS3 as soon as possible after launch.

New Mac tower (maybe a laptop though?).

Thank you Bethesda, you have saved me money. I will reward you by buying this ASAP.

 

[DCharlie]

Dcharlie I agree price could be in MS favor. Honestly, i hope MS does go the super aggressive route you suggest. I wouldn't be bitter about spending more money on my launch system. Being aggressive on price shows me MS is headstrong about ensuring X360 has a healthy lifespan with great games the entire time.

i think they will, but i think they need to get their production cycles and issues in order in order to be ready. If they drop the bomb at E3, they have to be ready to capitalize - it's all well and good offering the cheap route to the next gen sexy, but they MUST be ready to shift silly numbers in order to put pressure on Sony.

 

[Red Scarlet]

A good translation could see Oblivion doing very well on PS3 in Japan in my opinion. Of course, this is purely speculation - but nobody has ever seen a true WRPG stepping foot in Japan on a popular console. I actually hope it does get released in Japan and does very well, Square Enix should take some real notice of this game

Well, Ultima 3 and 4 were released on the Famicom, and Ultima games were really popular, as was the Famicom.

The Wizardry games were also released on the Famicom and probably did well, too.

But that was awhile ago..

 

[Wollan]

It's a first person game, I think that could lower sales by a good margin(in Japan).

 

[Mrbob]

i think they will, but i think they need to get their production cycles and issues in order in order to be ready. If they drop the bomb at E3, they have to be ready to capitalize - it's all well and good offering the cheap route to the next gen sexy, but they MUST be ready to shift silly numbers in order to put pressure on Sony.

Well MS announced recently they can produce a million systems a month now. But will the 100 million + sony fanbase bite? As history has shown, system price alone doesn't guarantee success. In fact, besides a small initial a boost, such a drastic pricedrop could have a negative effect long term too. X360 could get a perceived stigma of being inferior to the PS3, even if the games are close in quality. The best thing Sony did with the PS2 was not blink over a pricedrop when the Xbox was released, and they dictated the entire generation after this.

 

[sonycowboy]

Imagined scene at Bethesda this afternoon

"Alright, damnit who leaked the info of a PS3 version before E3? What the #$%^ is the Gaming Age forum. It was supposed to be a #$%^ing surprise!! Now the whole world knows because somebody on GAF leaked a list we supposedly sent him.. You're fired! You're all #$%^ing fired!!"

Man, that press release says all you need to know about the validity of this information.

Press Release? Bethesda has actually publically commented on this?

Congrats to snatches on the scoop... While he's not getting much credit, everything leads back to this thread.

Although, if this turns out to be false, along with his infamous Warhawk "looks like shit" from that Sony retailer show, despite the fact it wasn't even shown there, he'll definitely need some splaining to do. Which is exactly why I trust this (well that and it was initially announced for "next gen consoles" back when GI hit last year )

 

[Speevy]

Well I posted the news at TeamXbox and their consensus is that this is just speculation until someone makes a confirmation. I really prefer to be made out as a fool because of my own words, so we'll see. Although I personally "believe" that this is happening, if it doesn't, I foresee a major backlash.

 

[PhatSaqs]

They can make all the systems they want. Doesn't mean shit without great games. That means more than just Halo.

 

[Razoric]

Well I posted the news at TeamXbox and their consensus is that this is just speculation until someone makes a confirmation. I really prefer to be made out as a fool because of my own words, so we'll see. Although I personally "believe" that this is happening, if it doesn't, I foresee a major backlash.

Well if TeamXbox thinks it's speculation then we should just pack up and go home. :lol

 

[John Harker]

You think the success of this game will let us see another King's Field?

 

[Kittonwy]

Damn got me there, I didn't think it did that well. But to say it beat expectations when people were hoping for it to compete with Halo is overboard. Now if Killzone 2 lives up the hype, it could be huge.

It was unrealistic to expect it to visually top Halo, especially given Halo 2 was coming out and the PS2 hardware-wise had difficulty handling Killzone (visually was there even anything better-looking? Aside from Black which is still kind of dull?), but Killzone 2 could be a whole new ballgame, at least from a visuals standpoint the hardware itself can handle a whole lot more. >_<

 

[Speevy]

Well if TeamXbox thinks it's speculation then we should just pack up and go home. :lol

Well from a casual perspective, it's not hard to come to that conclusion. You have a guy who says he read a list, and two major online gaming websites jump on the news and say "It's still an unconfirmed rumor, but in the realm of possibility." So people adopt what the major websites are reporting.

Either way though, this forum doesn't exactly have a sterling record of taking rumors with a grain of salt. And like I said, *I* think it's true.

 

[BlueTsunami]

You think the success of this game will let us see another King's Field?

/me humps your leg

God I hope so. Hopefully Kings Field stays true to its Dungeon Crawler roots but with beautiful visuals.

Also, about Bethesda and their decision with the PS3. My understanding was, at first, that Bethesda opted not to be on the PS3 due to Harddrive support (and its uncertainty). Now that a HDD is pretty much being put on a pedastal for the PS3 (for its importance) I can see Bethesda relooking at the PS3.

With that said, who knows if it even went that far. Maybe Bethesda decided to say quiet about the PS3 and build up the Xbox360 version. Now that its out and about and the PS3 launch happening this year, now we're starting to hear rumblings about the game again.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Oh yeah, PC will always be the superior version what with mods and KB/M. But doesn't mean the graphic whore in me doesn't want it all running at max at 720p (as opposed to middling 1024*768). If I had to choose one it would be PC for sure though.

The mere mention of the phrase "superior version" should be a bannable offense here IMO.

I am so fucking sick and tired of hearing that shit.

 

[Razoric]

The mere mention of the phrase "superior version" should be a bannable offense here IMO.

I am so fucking sick and tired of hearing that shit.

That and "should've been on DS (and soon Rev)".

 

[sonycowboy]

The mere mention of the phrase "superior version" should be a bannable offense here IMO.

I am so fucking sick and tired of hearing that shit.

We've been hearing it now for 30 years and I don't think that's going to change. Of course, this gen, the worm may have turned, so those who felt the their system was getting the inferior version may now be trumpeting the superior version to compensate.

In any case, I don't see it going away and it ~can be a legitimate concern among some folks, although 98% of the time, it's obviously used for system partisanship.

 

[DCharlie]

there are many factors in what makes the version superior - being able to play it to death right NOW certainly make the PC and X360 versions seem rather nice!

anyways, it would certainly seem that the next gen doesn't start when Sony says - it's already here and confirmed.

 

[Sysgen]

The mere mention of the phrase "superior version" should be a bannable offense here IMO.

I am so fucking sick and tired of hearing that shit.

Actually the thing that irks me about the post you quoted is that kb/m is superior. So not true for a non twitch FPS. It's all good for preference of course but that argument does not belong in an Oblivion thread.

 

[BlueTsunami]

About the KB/M thing. I definately prefer a KB/M with a game like Oblivion. It doesn't just need to be about twitch gameplay either, it offers much more customability and precision and thats a plus for me personaly.

 

[Jonnyram]

Also, about Bethesda and their decision with the PS3. My understanding was, at first, that Bethesda opted not to be on the PS3 due to Harddrive support (and its uncertainty). Now that a HDD is pretty much being put on a pedastal for the PS3 (for its importance) I can see Bethesda relooking at the PS3.

Yeah, that must be what brought about the PSP version too.

 

[SolidSnakex]

there are many factors in what makes the version superior - being able to play it to death right NOW certainly make the PC and X360 versions seem rather nice!

anyways, it would certainly seem that the next gen doesn't start when Sony says - it's already here and confirmed.

Ofcourse there is but as sonycowboy mentioend, this is nothing new. The superior version talk went on all generation long in the current gen (either it be waiting for it or getting the "superior" version when a game is released on all systems at one time). But as sonycowboy said, it appears that the shoe is on the other foot now.

 

[Amir0x]

Yeah, that must be what brought about the PSP version too.

confirmation of PSPee.

 

[Striek]

The mere mention of the phrase "superior version" should be a bannable offense here IMO.

I am so fucking sick and tired of hearing that shit.

Come on, with a PC<>Console game like Oblivion its just the damned simple truth. IMO. Mods and controls make the PC version superior. To me. I'm the one whose saying that. Its an opinion, and I don't think I have to qualify that so sensibilities aren't hurt. Console wars be damned.

 

[snatches]

Press Release? Bethesda has actually publically commented on this?

Congrats to snatches on the scoop... While he's not getting much credit, everything leads back to this thread.

Although, if this turns out to be false, along with his infamous Warhawk "looks like shit" from that Sony retailer show, despite the fact it wasn't even shown there, he'll definitely need some splaining to do. Which is exactly why I trust this (well that and it was initially announced for "next gen consoles" back when GI hit last year )

Gotta like being held accountable here for "other people's shit"....my friend saw the same warhawk trailer that has now leaked since GDC and said he was unimpressed, and guess what, I thought it wasn't that fucking impressive either. Either way, I posted this guys opinion after getting off the phone with him on page 18 of a 30 page thread and I get crucified for a month.

Brings us to today, and if this news isn't true its because some sales idiot at Bethesda sent out incorrect info, which I posted as it was directly from Bethesda, but God knows if this turns out to be a big fuck up I will be to blame. Well, if that is what happens I'll deal with it. But if given the option between contributing to these here forums and being a crybaby whiner with nothing to offer, than I'll take the former. sonycowboy, you are not in the "whiner" camp that I am referring to.

Really people, news gets dropped here because its a great place to discuss. Trash on people who bring something to the table all the time and this place will get real boring real fast.

GAF RULES FANBOYS DROOL/end rant

 

[DCharlie]

The superior version talk went on all generation long in the current gen (either it be waiting for it or getting the "superior" version when a game is released on all systems at one time). But as sonycowboy said, it appears that the shoe is on the other foot now.

indeed it is - the difference now is that sony MAY get the 'superior' version AND the power edge.

However, given the downplaying of the power difference last time - we'll just see the same arguments regurgitated with both sides being right royal hypocrits.

 

[Speevy]

Really people, news gets dropped here because its a great place to discuss. Trash on people who bring something to the table all the time and this place will get real boring real fast.

Well boring or not, people always prefer truth to half-truths or rumors. Otherwise, things should be labeled as such. Remember when we were certain that Nintendo had a new handheld planned that was more powerful than the PSP? I realize that was from the "S word" site, but just because something sparks interest doesn't make it confirmed news.

We've already seen today that the entire gaming journalism community takes this website so seriously as to post its juiciest topics immediately.

 

[Amir0x]

However, given the downplaying of the power difference last time - we'll just see the same arguments regurgitated with both sides being right royal hypocrits.

that's why in this fickle gaming industry... you better make damn sure your arguments can't ever come back to haunt you. it seems every day there is a shift that will piss off a fanboy somewhere

 

[Kittonwy]

indeed it is - the difference now is that sony MAY get the 'superior' version AND the power edge.

However, given the downplaying of the power difference last time - we'll just see the same arguments regurgitated with both sides being right royal hypocrits.

Hypocrisy is good when it works in your favor.

 

[SolidSnakex]

indeed it is - the difference now is that sony MAY get the 'superior' version AND the power edge.

However, given the downplaying of the power difference last time - we'll just see the same arguments regurgitated with both sides being right royal hypocrits.

True, I go with your frame of thought though that its not much of a superior version if you've got to wait that long to play it and there aren't many (if any) extras in it. Although I canu understand if some people wait it if they don't own the system it was originally released on.

 

[Kolgar]

Superior system power is one thing. But combine that with superior brand power and superior developer support and you have yourself an invincible monster.

For PlayStation fans, it's just the cherry on top of an already delicious cake.