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Ocelot in MGSV is so god damn boring.
- Thread starter Two Words
- Start date
See then it should be that. No waffling about with deep-sounding themes that never appear in the game in any meaningful form but keep being referenced in every other line of dialogue while presenting hackneyed plot twists that rely on magic. This kind of impotent writing started with MGS4.
In my heart I just know that there's no way to light up the darkness you'll find....in his eyes
RandomExpletive
Member
They pushed all his personality from the main story into MGO3...
YOU'RE PRETTY GOOD
YOU'RE PRETTY GOOD
YOU'RE PRETTY GOOD
YOU'RE PRETTY GOOD
YOU'RE PRETTY GOOD
YOU'RE PRETTY GOOD
YOU'RE PRETTY GOOD
Its pretty freaking cool to bounce bullets off walls
YOU'RE PRETTY GOOD
YOU'RE PRETTY GOOD
YOU'RE PRETTY GOOD
YOU'RE PRETTY GOOD
YOU'RE PRETTY GOOD
YOU'RE PRETTY GOOD
YOU'RE PRETTY GOOD
Its pretty freaking cool to bounce bullets off walls
Johan Liebert
Member
Agreed. His pronunciation of Les Enfants Terribles was the best thing about him.
NightShift
Member
Ocelot was fine. He just didn't have any stand out moments and instead hung back at Mother Base. I feel like if he did more outside of the tapes and those torture scenes we would have got a great Ocelot. Troy Baker did a great job too, but like I said he didn't have much to work with.
I guess you can make the excuse that he brainwashed himself to not only think Venom is Big Boss, but to be more boring for some reason.
NightShift
Member
Well they kinda aren't.I refuse to believe MGSV Ocelot and MGSIV Ocelot are the same character.
I refuse to believe MGSV Ocelot and MGSIV Ocelot are the same character.
I fucking LOVE that scene. It represents everything I love about this franchise.
It's just a shame you can't admit that you like goofy poorly written stories instead of pretending it's next-level fiction.
matrix-cat
Member
MGSV Ocelot is actually the janitor from Old Mother Base with a quick afternoon's worth of plastic surgery and hypnosis.
Jesus fucking Christ dude. What's your problem?
WHEN have I said Metal Gear is "next level fiction"?
I never expected I'd end up missing stuff like that happening in MGSV.
You know, typical batshit Metal Gear stuff.
LurkerPrime
Member
Having seen MGS3 Ocelot, I can't help but wonder what happened. That dude had lightyears of style.
MGSV Ocelot had a good outfit, at least.
MGSV Ocelot had a good outfit, at least.
Just noting the inconsistencies in your defense of the later stories in this franchise. The tone and direction of MGS4 is totally different from the preceeding three games but somehow it's "everything you love" about the series? That scene is hammed up to childish levels complete with shoe-horned nonsensical love story.
From what I've seen, you just seem to lap up anything Kojima puts to paper.
That's Metal Gear for you.
MGS4 does not feel any different to the usual tone of the franchise. You want a game that feels different? Try MGSV. And that game sucked for it.
And your last comment is completely wrong as seeing how much I disliked MGSV.
No it isn't, because nothing even approaching that scene, or most of the goofy ass scenes in MGS4, happens in any of the other three games. It's an isolated case, and a bad one. MGS3 has some silly moments but they don't overpower and undermine the narrative in the process. But this is the same game that made the originally amusing easter egg Johnny Sasaki a main character, complete with pathetic Flanderization and removing any semblance of humor from his existence.
MGS4, MGSPW and MGSV are closer in tone than they are to any of the other games. They're terrible stories. Portable Ops was the last story to stay true to the series at that point. Then Kojima decided to make a character Jesus Christ and the entire mythology buckled under it while he kept going back and trying to add more story details to fix his original fuck-up, eventually making it unsalvageable instead of just ignoring it like he should've.
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
Ocelot
was one of the most baffling decisions in the story for me. Not only is it pointless, it basically neutralizes any potentially dramatic moments we could have gotten. God forbid we get to see this skilled slickster actively work his charms to maintain his cover, or display anything resembling internal conflict about the morality of the situation.
Instead of having Ocelot
, it would've been way more consistent (and entertaining) for him to be, y'know, the amazingly capable and talented actor/liar/SPY we already got to know in MGS1-3.
It's just another example of how they've repeatedly stripped away the traits that made these characters unique and interesting in the first place. Some have excused this trend as meta commentary about the mundane reality of legendary figures, but honestly it just comes off as bad writing most of the time.
hypnotizing himself to forget about the fake Big Boss
Instead of having Ocelot
give up his free will
It's just another example of how they've repeatedly stripped away the traits that made these characters unique and interesting in the first place. Some have excused this trend as meta commentary about the mundane reality of legendary figures, but honestly it just comes off as bad writing most of the time.
That's as succint as it gets. Kojima's writing ability either never was very good, or he suddenly got awful. The gulf in difference between the writing of MGS3 and the writing of MGS4 alone is astonishing, let alone MGS1/2 to 4.
Death Metalist
Member
Ocelot in MGSV was basically
WrenchNinja
Member
everyone in mgsv is boring
Oddvintagechap
Member
This game was lifeless.
Just a bunch of gameplay.
Just a bunch of gameplay.
But it's a meta depiction of Venom's state of mind tho
Randomizer
Member
The whole games tone was too serious. I know the story and events are still over the top and ridiculous but the character interaction and dialogue was a big shift from previous games. It was kind of a failed experiment for Kojima. The gameplay was utterly astounding the best 3rd person shooter/stealth game ever but how everything plotwise was presented just felt off.
SolidChamp
Banned
Great timing for this thread, since I just decided to resume MGSV after a long hiatus (I was burnt out on it).
Being a big fan of MGS3 (the only true masterpiece of the series, IMO), this is obviously a very disappointing game. Taking time away from it has helped to temper my expectations of it and play it for what it is, and not for what I thought it should be. The gameplay can be satisfying in short bursts, but it lacks the nuance, depth, and quirky style of the previous entries.
This thread about Ocelot highlights just one of many reasons why MGSV feels half-baked and sorely misguided. Even when the gameplay works (at times to stellar effect), I can't help but feel that there's a few layers missing. The average outpost and surrounding area feels...off, somehow. It's like Kojima was just finishing up his first pass with it, sprinkling gameplay elements throughout the world, but had plans to layer in several more elements to give it more detail and depth.
Ocelot is just one telling sign of Kojima being undecided as to what he wanted this game to be, exactly, and where in the mythology he wanted it to stand. I have no doubt he was hoping for another year or two in development.
Edit: I've decided to forgo the endless side ops grind and try to focus on the actual episodes. I'm on (the very frustrating) episode 28, Code Talker. It's a moment that makes me pine for the days of The End in MGS3. THAT was some stellar game design.
Being a big fan of MGS3 (the only true masterpiece of the series, IMO), this is obviously a very disappointing game. Taking time away from it has helped to temper my expectations of it and play it for what it is, and not for what I thought it should be. The gameplay can be satisfying in short bursts, but it lacks the nuance, depth, and quirky style of the previous entries.
This thread about Ocelot highlights just one of many reasons why MGSV feels half-baked and sorely misguided. Even when the gameplay works (at times to stellar effect), I can't help but feel that there's a few layers missing. The average outpost and surrounding area feels...off, somehow. It's like Kojima was just finishing up his first pass with it, sprinkling gameplay elements throughout the world, but had plans to layer in several more elements to give it more detail and depth.
Ocelot is just one telling sign of Kojima being undecided as to what he wanted this game to be, exactly, and where in the mythology he wanted it to stand. I have no doubt he was hoping for another year or two in development.
Edit: I've decided to forgo the endless side ops grind and try to focus on the actual episodes. I'm on (the very frustrating) episode 28, Code Talker. It's a moment that makes me pine for the days of The End in MGS3. THAT was some stellar game design.
Soodanim
Member
I've seen discussions and posts where people put together Tomokazu Fukushima's influence on the series (he helped write 1-3 and IIRC he solo wrote Ghost Babel for the GBC), and his departure lines up with when the writing started to change.
Edit:
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1168506
Jawbreaker
Member
That's because he was Troy Baker, not Ocelot. I couldn't suspend my disbelief at all throughout the game and only saw the man—not the character he was portraying. Honestly, one of the most disappointing aspects of the game for me.
From what I understand from MGS's convoluted story, he was faking it.
Whether or not it overpowers the narrative is kind of a matter if opinion. I felt that all the silly stuff stayed far enough removed from the serious stuff. This isn't to say I think MGS4 dealt with things flawlessly, far from it, but having Johnny as a larger character didn't detract from the high points because the stuff that made him a joke was detected from it. In the same way the Boss' death in MGS3 wasn't undermined by things like Zero's James Bond infatuation it's kept far enough away that's not something you think about when the big stuff comes up.
How is the tone of MGS4, PW and MGS5 even remotely similar? MGS4 seemed in line timewise with the earlier games, PW clearly had a lighter tone and was aimed at a younger audience and 5 had less of an emphasis on cut scenes and lacked the sort of over the top and comedic moments most of the earlier games had.
Also Kojima made the Boss Jesus in 3 so if that's really an issue that game should be getting criticized too.
Roufianos
Member
This game basically featured my top 5 MGS characters besides Snake:
Liquid
Ocelot
Volgin
Big Boss
Mantis
Yet all of them were just empty koopa shells, absolutely souless. We didn't learn anything about these characters that we didn't already know.
If I was making a compilation video on all of them, I probably wouldn't include any scenes from V, it was such a non-event.
Liquid
Ocelot
Volgin
Big Boss
Mantis
Yet all of them were just empty koopa shells, absolutely souless. We didn't learn anything about these characters that we didn't already know.
If I was making a compilation video on all of them, I probably wouldn't include any scenes from V, it was such a non-event.
brandonh83
Banned
This sums up my feelings. Being touted as the missing link or whatever, I'm not exactly sure how or what that's referring to. I stopped at the end of "chapter 1" as there was a final boss (which sucked) and a resolution if you can call it that and yet it felt so pointless. I've heard that more stuff happens if you stick through it but I'd had more than enough by that point.
I could talk about the story in the others from dusk till dawn but if someone asked me about this game I would probably say "uh" a lot and just not really know what to say.
Zomba13
Member
Ocelot in MGSV was basically
Nah, the plastic toy had more personality than MGSV Ocelot.
matrix-cat
Member
The only part of MGSV that actually connects to the rest of the series in any way is a few Cassette Tapes you unlock after finishing Chapter 2. They're probably the best part of the game, which makes it all the more irritating that all the interesting parts of the game's story are hidden away in tapes. I don't know when Kojima decided that radio plays were the greatest form of storytelling, but I hate that shit.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I'm not gonna say that there was so much great story beyond Chapter 1, but you probably did miss its better story moments.
Couldn't really judge the game's storytelling without understanding the resolution to the parasites and also to Quiet.
Again, it is not a masterpiece of storytelling... but you did miss the meat of whatever it was trying to tell.
SJRB
Gold Member
"There is a significant plot point to be explained right now.
I'm not going to bother telling you now, for some reason I made a tape explaining everything in monologue so you don't have to reply to anything. Just listen to the tape."
Ocelot is AWFUL in this game. Kaz isn't all that either, but Ocelot is just completely botched. He's nothing like MGS3 Ocelot, let alone MGS/MGS2 Ocelot.
He's a whining pansy. When you go out and get back those annoying kids and hear him say "making me worry like that.." I was fucking done with him. It doesn't help that Baker sounds like he doesn't give a fuck either 95% of the time.
I hate this game so much.
I'm not going to bother telling you now, for some reason I made a tape explaining everything in monologue so you don't have to reply to anything. Just listen to the tape."
Ocelot is AWFUL in this game. Kaz isn't all that either, but Ocelot is just completely botched. He's nothing like MGS3 Ocelot, let alone MGS/MGS2 Ocelot.
He's a whining pansy. When you go out and get back those annoying kids and hear him say "making me worry like that.." I was fucking done with him. It doesn't help that Baker sounds like he doesn't give a fuck either 95% of the time.
I hate this game so much.
SkylineRKR
Member
MGSV Ocelot is way too much of a good guy, does he even fire a single bullet? He's boring and flat and Troy Baker sounded bored as well + wasn't the right choice. He could've been replaced by an entirely new character that would serve as a tutorial for Snake. But who didn't the game ruin? Didn't it ruin BB, Liquid, Volgin as well? Mantis?
I hate everything except for the gameplay. I wish this was inserted into an MGS3 remake or something.
I hate everything except for the gameplay. I wish this was inserted into an MGS3 remake or something.
matrix-cat
Member
Late in Chapter 2 he fires a bullet into the air to quiet all the men during
Huey's trial
Thank you, I needed that.
"There's a snake in my base"Ocelot in MGSV was basically
I don't understand why they went with Ocelot. Maybe the squeeze in the
angle.
I'd say pull Ocelot out of the game entirely and replace him with Gray Fox. Even if he's as boring that would make sense for the character, and it's about time he was introduced in the canon.
Or if you are going to have Ocelot have him working with the Soviets as a double-agent and have the player meet him during the Afghanistan section of the game. He shouldn't be your Alfred, he should be doing shit.
hypnotherapy
I'd say pull Ocelot out of the game entirely and replace him with Gray Fox. Even if he's as boring that would make sense for the character, and it's about time he was introduced in the canon.
Or if you are going to have Ocelot have him working with the Soviets as a double-agent and have the player meet him during the Afghanistan section of the game. He shouldn't be your Alfred, he should be doing shit.
Sora the Cat
Member
Guess I'll be the one who disagrees with you guys.
If you think that Ocelot was boring and acted different than in other games, that's because he is just playing a part in this one, he is teaching Venom how to be Big Boss. And the reason they don't show little snippets of him being his true self during the game it's because you as the player should not know this till you get to the end. You can argue that this was poorly executed, and I wouldn't argue with that since it's completely subjective, but the change in Ocelot personality is well justified, as anyone who finished the game should know.
People who didn't like the game tend to use this kind of threads to throw their usual "The whole game was boring" line and go away, that kind of hyperbole ruins the discussion and doesn't add anything, but it keeps happening in every MGSV negative thread.
If you think that Ocelot was boring and acted different than in other games, that's because he is just playing a part in this one, he is teaching Venom how to be Big Boss. And the reason they don't show little snippets of him being his true self during the game it's because you as the player should not know this till you get to the end. You can argue that this was poorly executed, and I wouldn't argue with that since it's completely subjective, but the change in Ocelot personality is well justified, as anyone who finished the game should know.
People who didn't like the game tend to use this kind of threads to throw their usual "The whole game was boring" line and go away, that kind of hyperbole ruins the discussion and doesn't add anything, but it keeps happening in every MGSV negative thread.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I don't really believe that Ocelot was characterized differently in this one in service of the Venom/BB reveal.
I'd rather say that it was an entirely different type of storyline that wasn't particularly interested in showing the emotional inner lives of the Diamond Dogs through cinematics.