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[AmMortal]

Quick question is alcohol forbidden in Qur'an ?

Alchohol, drugs and anything else that can alter your mindstate in some way.

i.e Stuff that get's ya high lol

The verse that fobids it:

They ask you (O Muhammad ) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: "In them is a great sin, and (some) benefit for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit." And they ask you what they ought to spend. Say: "That which is beyond your needs." Thus Allâh makes clear to you His Laws in order that you may give thought. (2:219)

 

[Gig]

Pigs are the filthiest animals. In History pigs carried alot of diseases. (Now it's a little different, but the no pig rule still stands)

While that may have been reasonable in olden days, it's hardly needed now. Why don't muslims change the Quran to discard this ban on pigs?

 

[Witchfinder General]

We as muslims are not supposed to go all physical when someone says or does something to try to humiliate The Prophet or God or the Qur'an. Islam gives you the right to say and believe anything you want

Yes but do you oppose my right to criticise your prophet and religion?

I'm sure you're aware of the furore over the Danish Mohamed cartoons a while back. Do you agree with their assertions that they had no right to print the cartoons? Do you believe that I or anyone else for that matter should be held accountable for disparaging Islam?

 

[avaya]

Okay, It is no question that women in today's so called "muslim" countries are being treated very unjustly. I was saying that Islam is the opposite of what you are seeing in So called "Islamic" countries, this is due to their culture, nothing in Islam is like that.

I'm afraid people won't let you get away with implying that places in the Middle East aren't "Muslim" by using quotation marks. It's a copout and it's a copout because the good book is actually written from the Arabian perspective.

"According to the Quran, the reason why Muslim women should wear an outer garment when going out of their homes is that they may be recognised as "Believing" women and differentiated from streetwalkers for whom sexual harassment is an occupational hazard. The purpose of this verse was not to confine women to their homes, but to make it safe for them to go about their daily business without attracting unsavoury attention."

On the concept ot hijab, it is perfectly up to the girl herself to decide to wear it or lay it aside for later, its no one elses business then between her and Allah( although its frowned upon). The veil is an advantage to her whether she sees it now or later.

It is also the mark of Believing women.

The straw man is so easily setup but it’s a cutting straw man. Effectively what your saying is that they have to wear a hijab or risk being persecuted by intolerant Muslim men? You have to wear it to show you believe? How can you say this and then proclaim girls in the Islamic world laugh at western girls? Do you realise how contradictory this is?

Islam does not allow ALCOHOL in any circumstances. It is because of the weakness of the human heart and mind that does this to you.

Drinking alcohol has nothing to do with the weakness of the human heart and mind. It’s about living your life how you want to.

 

[CrushDance]

Bacon is worth it. Trust me.

:lol *Agrees*

While that may have been reasonable in olden days, it's hardly needed now. Why don't muslims change the Quran to discard this ban on pigs?

It's not to be changed. But I do see where you're coming from about the consumption of pork.

 

[MidiSurf]

Alchohol, drugs and anything else that can alter your mindstate in some way.

i.e Stuff that get's ya high lol

But is ist forbidden ? I know some Muslim people and some of them drink and some of them says it's forbidden by Qu'ran and others say it's not forbidden and the big book only points out that it will effect your mindstate.

 

[solid2snake]

Only Allah decides who is with him, it is true that these days many people are saying that they are muslims and clearly do the opposite.

that's the point why i hate these people. god damnit these guys getting on my nerves everytime i eat at a turkish restaurant.

 

[CrushDance]

But is ist forbidden ? I know some Muslim people and some of them drink and some of them says it's forbidden by Qu'ran and others say it's not forbidden and the big book only points out that it will effect your mindstate.

Again it comes down to the culture you're raised in.

 

[Dabookerman]

Cool muslims:

 

[avaya]

I atcually have one question, how are Muslim's treated who decide to leave the faith become atheist or convert to another religion?

 

[Gig]

It's not to be changed. But I do see where you're coming from about the consumption of pork.

Why? If Mormons can change what ever the hell their book is called, why can't Muslims change the Quran?

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

Drinking alcohol has nothing to do with the weakness of the human heart and mind. It’s about living your life how you want to.

So alchohol doesn't weaken your brain/body?

U hear it hear first!

 

[MidiSurf]

Again it comes down to the culture you're raised in.

Well is there or is there not some kind "text" about alcohol. And does that txt states if it's forbidden or not.

I just want to know .

 

[AmMortal]

Yes but do you oppose my right to criticise your prophet and religion?

I'm sure you're aware of the furore over the Danish Mohamed cartoons a while back. Do you agree with their assertions that they had no right to print the cartoons? Do you believe that I or anyone else for that matter should be held accountable for disparaging Islam?

I believe that freedom of speech and expression of one's opinions stops at a certain border, taking advantage of this law to entice anti-semitic and anti-religious ideologies is wrong.
If you are in a Muslim country and you make such statements, the first thing is for you to be deported ( law) or never say it again. What would happen to me if I said that to the pope in the vatican city?

 

[AmMortal]

Well is there or is there not some kind "text" about alcohol. And does that txt states if it's forbidden or not.

I just want to know .

The verse that fobids it:

They ask you (O Muhammad ) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: "In them is a great sin, and (some) benefit for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit." And they ask you what they ought to spend. Say: "That which is beyond your needs." Thus Allâh makes clear to you His Laws in order that you may give thought. (2:219)

Thi smeans that you shouldn't trade that extacy in for the horrible effects it has.

 

[solid2snake]

fucking geek muslim:

 

[AmMortal]

I atcually have one question, how are Muslim's treated who decide to leave the faith become atheist or convert to another religion?

Exactly, like this:

Qur'an
(2:256) There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clearly from the wrong way. Whoever therefore rejects the forces of evil and believes in God, he has taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way, for God is All Hearing and Knowing.

 

[Gig]

I believe that freedom of speech and expression of one's opinions stops at a certain border, taking advantage of this law to entice anti-semitic and anti-religious ideologies is wrong.
If you are in a Muslim country and you make such statements, the first thing is for you to be deported ( law) or never say it again. What would happen to me if I said that to the pope in the vatican city?

Dude that's so weak, if I want to say "screw Allah" I should be able to say screw Allah. One more thing, what does the Quran say about homosexualality?

 

[the_zombie_luke]

What would happen to me if I said that to the pope in the vatican city?

Catholics don't have an aneurysm if you make fun of the Pope. And if you did do something to piss off the Vatican, they most likely wouldn't kill you.

 

[MidiSurf]

The verse that fobids it:

They ask you (O Muhammad ) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: "In them is a great sin, and (some) benefit for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit." And they ask you what they ought to spend. Say: "That which is beyond your needs." Thus Allâh makes clear to you His Laws in order that you may give thought. (2:219)

Thi smeans that you shouldn't trade that extacy in for the horrible effects it has.

Thank you. I really should start read Qur'an myself my friend converted to Islam few years back and he is pretty annoyed cos' i keep asking him same questions over and over again.

 

[avaya]

So alchohol doesn't weaken your brain/body?

U hear it hear first!

Please re-read what I wrote. Choosing to drink is not a sign of weakness at all.

Qur'an
(2:256) There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clearly from the wrong way. Whoever therefore rejects the forces of evil and believes in God, he has taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way, for God is All Hearing and Knowing.

With respect, it doesn't say anything about what happens to people who leave. Just says you should know which is the right path from the wrong and when you choose the right path you will never stray from it.

 

[CrushDance]

Why? If Mormons can change what ever the hell their book is called, why can't Muslims change the Quran?

You have the answer in your post.

 

[AmMortal]

Dude that's so weak, if I want to say "screw Allah" I should be able to say screw Allah. One more thing, what does the Quran say about homosexualality?

What Allah(God) prescribes for human beings is the way to achieve a society that is blooming and alive, if everyone were to engage in homosexuality then the whole world would be done for.

Before the " homofoby" brigade comes in, bair in mind that I don't personally attack gay people and don't care about what they think and do in their own time.

 

[AmMortal]

You have the answer in your post.

:lol

 

[AmMortal]

Thank you. I really should start read Qur'an myself my friend converted to Islam few years back and he is pretty annoyed cos' i keep asking him same questions over and over again.

lol feel free to ask, anything

 

[caffeinated]

so what if a woman doesnt want to wear scarfs. what do you do to her ?
does it mean she's trying to seduce men ?

 

[AmMortal]

Please re-read what I wrote. Choosing to drink is not a sign of weakness at all.



With respect, it doesn't say anything about what happens to people who leave. Just says you should know which is the right path from the wrong and when you choose the right path you will never stray from it.

Cool, look at the first few words:

There is no compulsion in religion,

No one can force you into being a muslim jew or christian.

Secondly, I'm really sorry I don't have the exact naration chain on this one but I know how it goes:

One man from among the people with Muhammad(saw) became an apostate, after that the Prophet said that he can't no longer stay with the Muslims ( and remember there in Medina Muslims, Christians and Jews were fighting off polytheists). When this man left he not only got angry but, he betrayed the whole community's battle arrangments and because of him many people had died.

 

[AmMortal]

so what if a woman doesnt want to wear scarfs. what do you do to her ?
does it mean she's trying to seduce men ?

I would personally not care and neither should anyone else, granted I like my women unseen

 

[CrushDance]

so what if a woman doesnt want to wear scarfs. what do you do to her ?
does it mean she's trying to seduce men ?

No. As Warrior said, it can either mean she's not a believer or she is a believer but choose to just not wear it. There's no force to be applied. However groups such as the Taliban and others have hijacked the religion and that's what the media has portrayed as it being all about.

Just like how people view us as being corrupt and sinful because of the media as well.

 

[Gig]

You have the answer in your post.

I know what your trying to get at, but there is no legitimate reason why religion can change its holy book and another one can't. Things change, what was true 1000 years might not be true now.

Warrior300: No alcohol, drugs, pork, or gay sex? Your really making it hard to like this Allah guy.

 

[MidiSurf]

I know what your trying to get at, but there is no legitimate reason why religion can change its holy book and another one can't. Things change, what was true 1000 years might not be true now.

Warrior300: No alcohol, drugs, pork, or gay sex? Your really making it hard to like this Allah guy.

Islam is not the only religion to ban those things.

 

[CrushDance]

I know what your trying to get at, but there is no legitimate reason why religion can change its holy book and another one can't. Things change, what was true 1000 years might not be true now.

Warrior300: No alcohol, drugs, pork, or gay sex? Your really making it hard to like this Allah guy.

As for the Quran not changing, I'm not 100% sure myself, maybe Warrior could expand on it? But it's apparently never been changed as as the word of God should not be. It's like whenever I think of the 10 commandments, they all still apply to us in this day and age regardless and if everyone were to follow them. We'd have a "perfect" society.

You don't have to like Allah, it's your own choice to disagree or agree.

But it's like I say. Religion requires a lot of sacrifice and self control9Even though everyone slips up since we're not perfect) to go on with it. Hence why you see so many people dropping out, everyone gets dunked in water as kids and told: "Off you go! You're a Christian" or whatever faith. They grow up and realize it's not worth it for them, but they've already got the ideas and whatnot in their minds. So they build regret and anger and eventually just break loose.

If people were older and made these decisions it'd be a lot better for everyone. You'd have those who TRULY believe and are not just a statistic and those who don't believe.

 

[AmMortal]

I know what your trying to get at, but there is no legitimate reason why religion can change its holy book and another one can't. Things change, what was true 1000 years might not be true now.

Warrior300: No alcohol, drugs, pork, or gay sex? Your really making it hard to like this Allah guy.

A true religion has no need to change its law to apply it to a certain time and period that is different from when its revealed. Remember God has to All-Knowing.It makes you question which one is real in this regard...

 

[CrushDance]

A true religion has no need to change its law to apply it to a certain time and period that is different from when its revealed. Remember God has to All-Knowing.It makes you question which one is real in this regard...

Exactly.

Like I said before, look at the ten commandments. Sure some of us are agnostic/atheist or have other beliefs, but the core values are what we'd all want for any society. Fairness and respect. Unfortunately we're human

[For those of faith]
I am the Lord your God
You shall have no other gods before me
You shall not make for yourself an idol
You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God
Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy

[For everyone else]
Honor your Father and Mother
You shall not murder
You shall not commit adultery
You shall not steal
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor
You shall not covet your neighbor's house
You shall not covet your neighbor's wife

Just look at how many problems could be prevented, no broken hearts when your girlfriend or wife cheats on you(or vice versa) for example. Even if you don't believe in God they're still solid rules to live life by. But of course you don't have to be of any faith to be a good person, we all strive for the same thing right?

 

[Gig]

A true religion has no need to change its law to apply it to a certain time and period that is different from when its revealed. Remember God has to All-Knowing.It makes you question which one is real in this regard...

So when God told Joshua to massacre everyone in the city Jericho, women, children, and even the fucking goats, you don't think he was wrong?

 

[Fuzzery]

In Islam whatever a man can do, a women can do to. Don't think that any of the things that are going on right now in some of the so called "muslim" countries, where they treat women as secondary citizens is Islamic at all. It is the opposite, they do exactly what Islam came to stop. Ignorant culture has always been the enemy of Islam.

If they do things in the name of Islam, how is what they are doing NOT Islam? What makes your interpretation of Islam more correct than theirs?

 

[AmMortal]

As for the Quran not changing, I'm not 100% sure myself, maybe Warrior could expand on it? But it's apparently never been changed as as the word of God should not be. It's like whenever I think of the 10 commandments, they all still apply to us in this day and age regardless and if everyone were to follow them. We'd have a "perfect" society.

You don't have to like Allah, it's your own choice to disagree or agree.

What makes Islam different from christianity and judaism is that Allah promised to keep this Criterion the same as it was revealed to the prophet, many times over and over again
Before hand, God gave the Jews the duty of preserving the Torah and the Injeel ( Gospel)

But in this Criterion He promised He would be The One to preserve it, it is word for word letter by letter dot by dot in the minds and hearts of millions of muslims.

Allah has challenged anyone to come with a verse close to its eloquence and style, no one ever achieved it and no one ever will. And to think, this was revealed to man that could neither write nor read.

Allah promised in the Quran that He would take on the responsibility of protecting His final Word from loss. He said, "Verily I have revealed the Reminder (Quran), and verily I shall preserve it.” (Surah al-Hijr (15):9)

Thus, the Quran has been preserved in both the oral as well as written form in a way no other religious book in history has.

Thus, his book of revelation, the Quran, had to be specially preserved from any form of change or loss so that it would be available to all the generations of man until the last day of the world.

The Qur'an today is the very same that flowed through the mouth of the Prophet(saw)

 

[Ydahs]

I know what your trying to get at, but there is no legitimate reason why religion can change its holy book and another one can't. Things change, what was true 1000 years might not be true now.

Warrior300: No alcohol, drugs, pork, or gay sex? Your really making it hard to like this Allah guy.

Changing a Holy book doesn't really make it "holy" anymore. It's not meant to be changed to suit one's needs.

Why would Muslims want to change God's words?

The Muslims believe that the current Bible isn't the Holy Bible revealed to Jesus since it's been changed. Alcohol was once prohibited in the Bible, right? It's not anymore, correct?

What gave human the right to change God's law?

So when God told Joshua to massacre everyone in the city Jericho, women, children, and even the fucking goats, you don't think he was wrong?

Who's Joshua?

 

[CrushDance]

So when God told Joshua to massacre everyone in the city Jericho, women, children, and even the fucking goats, you don't think he was wrong?

What about the prostitute and her family who were saved? The city was razed to the ground because the people continued to live badly without changing or at least trying to. Yet a lowly prostitute and her family were saved no? What does that tell you about God?

 

[AmMortal]

If they do things in the name of Islam, how is what they are doing NOT Islam? What makes your interpretation of Islam more correct than theirs?

Well, when the Qur'an says that you can't kill Innocent people and they do I guess they aren't islamic.

My interpretation of Islam is I take the verses as they are revealed, so Allah says:

"Do not kill yourselves as God has been to you very merciful" (4:29)

Then Suicide bombing is clearly UNISLAMIC!

 

[AmMortal]

So when God told Joshua to massacre everyone in the city Jericho, women, children, and even the fucking goats, you don't think he was wrong?

That's Christian

 

[Ydahs]

If they do things in the name of Islam, how is what they are doing NOT Islam? What makes your interpretation of Islam more correct than theirs?

If I blow up the US in the name of Christianity, is what I'm doing apart of Christianity?

 

[CrushDance]

If they do things in the name of Islam, how is what they are doing NOT Islam? What makes your interpretation of Islam more correct than theirs?

Right. But just because one does something in the name of whatever doesn't mean it's right. People have the ability to do whatever they want, I can go right now and do some horrific deed in the name of God. Would that make what I did right? Of course not.

You see it all the time, people do these things and say "Oh I'm doing it because of this..." It's just an excuse to try and rationalize something wrong.

 

[AmMortal]

Changing a Holy book doesn't really make it "holy" anymore. It's not meant to be changed to suit one's needs.

Why would Muslims want to change God's words?

The Muslims believe that the current Bible isn't the Holy Bible revealed to Jesus since it's been changed. Alcohol was once prohibited in the Bible, right? It's not anymore, correct?

What gave human the right to change God's law?

Who's Joshua?

Prophet Yusha 'Joshua' Peace be Upon Him. He was the apprentice of Prophet Moses Peace be Upon Him and later his successor.

 

[Ydahs]

Prophet Yusha 'Joshua' Peace be Upon Him. He was the apprentice of Prophet Moses Peace be Upon Him and later his successor.

Oh, I didn't know him by that name. I should do some research...

 

[AmMortal]

Oh, I didn't know him by that name. I should do some research...

yeah, there is a lot that we don't know.

Catholics don't have an aneurysm if you make fun of the Pope. And if you did do something to piss off the Vatican, they most likely wouldn't kill you.

Neither would Muslims. Remember just deportion or apology no killing

 

[Gig]

What about the prostitute and her family who were saved? The city was razed to the ground because the people continued to live badly without changing or at least trying to. Yet a lowly prostitute and her family were saved no? What does that tell you about God?

So the children and babies were evil and corrrupted too, come on!

 

[wackojackosnose]

Why? If Mormons can change what ever the hell their book is called, why can't Muslims change the Quran?

I saw a programme on the BBC last year, where a modern day female muslim journalist went to meet a hardcore, word for word Muslim guy in Nigeria.

From the show, I actually have a lot more respect for Muslims that take their book word for word and are unwilling to change it. The guy believed in the book so he took on everything 100%, and I have respect for that - even though he was bat shit fucking insane.

The female journalist, on the other hand, wanted to modernise the book, to periodically change the interpretation of it based on modern opinions (e.g. gay rights, women able to shake men's hands etc). This person I have no respect for. If she didn't believe or agree with the religion why didn't she just drop it? If you don't believe it then don't subscribe. Don't try changing a book to suit your needs when you feel like it.

 

[AmMortal]

So the children and babies were evil and corrrupted too, come on!

That is something Christian so please leave that out of here, we don't want people to get confused lol

Just become a muslim if your bothered buy it :lol

 

[Fuzzery]

If I blow up the US in the name of Christianity, is what I'm doing apart of Christianity?

In your eyes? Sure. In other people's eyes? No.

See, the majority of what people believe = the religion. If the majority of Muslims thinks that women should not have as many rights as men, then that's what "Islam" is.