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[Brandon F]

Crap, game crashed on me again. Now I'm getting concerned.

 

[AgentOtaku]

....So I said fuck it and ended up buying the PS2 version. Why? ....dunno...guess it's because I really wanna play the version that Clover originally designed. I remeber telling myself a month or so back I did wanna try both versions to see which one I ultimately favored and I just can't progress any further in the Wii version without trying the one prior....so in the next week or so, when it shows up through the mail from eBay, will see....

 

[Zerachiel]

To counteract negativity in this thread, I declare this post to be the post of awesome Okami music:

The sun Rises:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvArOLo0jKs

Descent of the Great Goddess:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS_89oSHxpY

Ryoshima Plains:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZVpke4Y6ks

Northern Country Kamui:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohZkIXKsg94

 

[Lavpa Jasai]

Is it strange to say that one of the biggest ways Ive seen a zelda influence in this game is through the music/sound fxs?

Granted zelda dosnt have the same "traditional japanese" sounding music but theres this one song, I dont know when or where, but its reoccurring, and the beginning it seriously sounds like a zelda song, but then it changes. Also the little dungeon sound effects (when you solve a puzzle ect.) remind me of it alot too.

 

[ethelred]

Is it strange to say that one of the biggest ways Ive seen a zelda influence in this game is through the music/sound fxs?

Granted zelda dosnt have the same "traditional japanese" sounding music but theres this one song, I dont know when or where, but its reoccurring, and the beginning it seriously sounds like a zelda song, but then it changes. Also the little dungeon sound effects (when you solve a puzzle ect.) remind me of it alot too.

I think that would be a pretty strange thing to say, yes. The Zelda series has, post-2D, been pretty atrocious glop. Okami's music on the other hand is the stuff of genius. I don't really hear or feel any similarities in the two at all -- even setting aside quality issues, they stylistically couldn't be further apart.

 

[Amir0x]

They're sorta similar, ethelred.

Both of their soundtracks have sound, for example.

 

[_Alkaline_]

I think that would be a pretty strange thing to say, yes. The Zelda series has, post-2D, been pretty atrocious glop.

Yeah, you keep thinking that.

 

[AgentOtaku]

looks like the story made Kotaku :lol

 

[jarrod]

I think he's saying sound effects and audio cues moreso... "discovery chimes" are the only obvious one I've really noticed though, the soundtracks themselves aren't at all similar.


Also, word to the wise, keep the TV setting on "standard" rather than "lcd". It keeps the paper filter more pronounced (visible about everywhere, versus hardly visible at all) and I think the colors/lines tend to bleed more. Whites especially, which almost glow similar to the PS2 version (especially noticable while running on roads) and even the animated black outlines seem to move more (they actually double sometimes, extending outside their usual bounds). Overall the effect's a lot nicer, more dreamy and a little closer to the PS2 original.

 

[ethelred]

I think he's saying sound effects and audio cues moreso... "discovery chimes" are the only obvious one I've really noticed though, the soundtracks themselves aren't at all similar.

Fair point. In that limited context, I can see the similarity. They do use a similar style of audio cues. I was thinking more of the actual music, of which there really isn't anything alike.

Yeah, you keep thinking that.

I will, thanks -- glad to have your permission in that.

Kondo was a talented composer, but the Zelda series changed in a lot of thematic ways when it moved from 2D to 3D and his compositional style never changed to adjust. Aside from the fact that the same songs and melodies keep getting reused over and over and over again, most of them just aren't very good at accomplishing what needs to be accomplished musically. He's a composer that's still stuck in the 16-bit mentality -- he excelled at creating "jingle" music, typically short memorably thematic pieces. Now he's trying to do emotionally evocative music or atmospheric stuff (such as for dungeons and the like) or orchestral-styled "epic" music. His battle themes are almost shockingly inept. He and his sound team are like fish out of water. Kondo reminds me a lot of the Nobuo Uematsu who struggled to keep composing music for Final Fantasy as the medium evolved around him and he stayed right in place.

Anyway, think whatever you like -- the 3D Zelda music has still been unremarkable, mediocre, and often downright bad stuff. The handful of quality tracks one can yank out of each specific soundtrack doesn't change that. It's not even in the same league as Okami.

 

[cicero]

which ranking is 'near perfect'?

is there an online leaderboard i can view

Did you just ask for visual proof of someone's claims? :lol

*cough*OPENED copy of No More Heroes*cough*

 

[VeritasVierge]

Is Amaterasu referred to as a "he" in the Wii copy? Was that fixed or did they F up her gender?

 

[Meesh]

man it's too bad there's no system that allows complete dependability and precision in control schemes. For now, what we get for the Wii is a good substitute for the hypothetical world where games have phenomenal and reliable control mechanics.

My issue is there's no freedom to express a brush stroke, it can only be done one way, which is really unrealistic. If they wanted to really use the Wiimote, give us gamers a greater limit to express ourselves instead of confining us to linear expressions...There should have been more freedoms offered to gamers using the wiimote to make attacks and destroy obstacles...

In an attempt to slash a boulder fo example, there's only one brush stroke possible, and you need to hit that mark. Same thing with defeating foes...

I'm happy most of the time with what devs are doing to ensure good use of the wiimote, but this feels broken to me.

 

[Brandon F]

Fair point. In that limited context, I can see the similarity. They do use a similar style of audio cues. I was thinking more of the actual music, of which there really isn't anything alike.



I will, thanks -- glad to have your permission in that.

Kondo was a talented composer, but the Zelda series changed in a lot of thematic ways when it moved from 2D to 3D and his compositional style never changed to adjust. Aside from the fact that the same songs and melodies keep getting reused over and over and over again, most of them just aren't very good at accomplishing what needs to be accomplished musically. He's a composer that's still stuck in the 16-bit mentality -- he excelled at creating "jingle" music, typically short memorably thematic pieces. Now he's trying to do emotionally evocative music or atmospheric stuff (such as for dungeons and the like) or orchestral-styled "epic" music. His battle themes are almost shockingly inept. He and his sound team are like fish out of water. Kondo reminds me a lot of the Nobuo Uematsu who struggled to keep composing music for Final Fantasy as the medium evolved around him and he stayed right in place.

Anyway, think whatever you like -- the 3D Zelda music has still been unremarkable, mediocre, and often downright bad stuff. The handful of quality tracks one can yank out of each specific soundtrack doesn't change that. It's not even in the same league as Okami.

Ocarina I found to be -really- effective at merging music thematically directly into the gameplay and world design. Like really fucking effective. I'm not sure what your argument is exactly beyond a subjective inappreciation for his newer tracks.

I am very impressed with Okami though, not just the compositions, but in how well it phases in and out of routine trigger points. Beyond being background noise though, there isn't much else to appreciate about it in relation to the game.

 

[ZealousD]

Is Amaterasu referred to as a "he" in the Wii copy? Was that fixed or did they F up her gender?

The brush gods say "origin of all that is good and mother to us all".

However, there's quite a few times where she's referred to as a "god". And during the quest where you're

Spoiler

finding the canine warriors, the dog in Kamiki says "man-to-man"

.

I haven't played the PS2 version to see if the two versions are any different in this regard.

 

[ethelred]

Ocarina I found to be -really- effective at merging music thematically directly into the gameplay and world design. Like really fucking effective. I'm not sure what your argument is exactly beyond a subjective inappreciation for his newer tracks.

My initial argument was that Zelda and Okami music are incredibly different on a stylistic level, so I don't see any way in which the former influenced the latter. I expanded that out to why I think the music is poor in general (I still think Kondo lacks the capacity to compose the longer, more complex pieces that the different nature of the 3D games calls for, and his grasp of instrumentation is amateurish) since Alkaliine decided to take one line out in isolation and focus on that.

 

[Version 3.0]

You must have some really shaky hands or something. I just put my nunchuk arm down when I'm not battling, so I don't have any "rolling everywhere" problems.

I don't have shaky hands, not at all. My friends envy my steady hands--I'm insanely good at Trauma Center. But something must've been up with my nunchuck, because today there's no problem at all. It's actually a little hard to get the move to go off. It still seems to pick a random direction, but at least it's no longer a game-breaker. Weird.

 

[Amir0x]

Did you just ask for visual proof of someone's claims? :lol

*cough*OPENED copy of No More Heroes*cough*

i wasn't asking for visual proof, no. I was mocking the idea of a 'near-perfect ranking' in Okami, as if there is any way that proves his point about the inaccuracy of the dualshock. If anything, it sorta disproves it.

Of course, missing the point is kind of your forte... but hey, I love when people ask me to prove my claims. It seems to always end with the most hilarious results imaginable. Fun!

I've done it so many times, I wonder if people ever learn. Shrinkwrapped No More Heroes in the toilet ftw.

 

[Brandon F]

My issue is there's no freedom to express a brush stroke, it can only be done one way, which is really unrealistic. If they wanted to really use the Wiimote, give us gamers a greater limit to express ourselves instead of confining us to linear expressions...There should have been more freedoms offered to gamers using the wiimote to make attacks and destroy obstacles...

In an attempt to slash a boulder fo example, there's only one brush stroke possible, and you need to hit that mark. Same thing with defeating foes...

I'm happy most of the time with what devs are doing to ensure good use of the wiimote, but this feels broken to me.

I'm not certain how you would expect the game to recognize an infinite possibility of waggle expression. Unless you wish for the game world to be molded entirely of clay and for us to have the ability to freely sculpt and craft at our own leisure...seriously though, PS2 tech. It's a game, it defines rules and limitations for us to acclimate; would having 2 or 10 more options in how you smash a boulder really change things? Or wouldn't you end up just falling back on the same 1 motion out of the ten that gets the job done most efficiently to you regardless?

Having a single defined motion makes mass consumption easier, to teach the audience 5 ways to perform the same task is inefficient design, particularly when the design is grounded in light puzzles and treasure hunts.

I just realized you may be hoping that the slash routines would be more 1:1 motions, as in cut through object exactly where I paint...probably more of a low-tech issue. PS2 worked identically, it would be a radical redesign to shoehorn that sort of thing into this port.

 

[Brandon F]

My initial argument was that Zelda and Okami music are incredibly different on a stylistic level, so I don't see any way in which the former influenced the latter. I expanded that out to why I think the music is poor in general (I still think Kondo lacks the capacity to compose the longer, more complex pieces that the different nature of the 3D games calls for, and his grasp of instrumentation is amateurish) since Alkaliine decided to take one line out in isolation and focus on that.

Oh, I wouldn't agree that either influenced the other musically either. Game design absolutely though. I also very much disagree on your entire Kondo debate too, but keep hating or whatever. I hate stuff too!

 

[Crushed]

i wasn't asking for visual proof, no. I was mocking the idea of a 'near-perfect ranking' in Okami, as if there is any way that proves his point about the inaccuracy of the dualshock. If anything, it sorta disproves it.

Not my fault you like imprecise non-gamer wiggle controls.

 

[Xisiqomelir]

Are these Zelda comparisons really needed?

 

[JSnake]

I'm adoring this game. I had it on PS2, didn't like it that much. But it's SO GOOD on the Wii. Probably because I have component cables for my Wii and don't for my PS2.

 

[Y2Kev]

This game's music is unbelievable. Part of the reason I thought the revitalization of the world was so compelling was the music that plays when colors are sprouting up everywhere. And the unbelievable usage of traditionally Japanese instruments and themes (even throwing in the pentatonic scale for westerners at times :lol ) really added a whole other dimension to things.

Shinshuu Plains 1 and 2 once they've been brought back to life are AMAZING.

 

[Lavpa Jasai]

I think that would be a pretty strange thing to say, yes. The Zelda series has, post-2D, been pretty atrocious glop. Okami's music on the other hand is the stuff of genius. I don't really hear or feel any similarities in the two at all -- even setting aside quality issues, they stylistically couldn't be further apart.

No its definatly not the whole soundtrack. As someone pointed out earlier its mainly the audio clues/chimes ect.

But the music itself is verrry diffrent. Execpt this one song. I keep hearing it, the beginning sounds like some zelda song. But then it goes off in its own direction.

Perhaps I shouldnt have mentioned zelda at all?

 

[Darkpen]

oh my god, how did I miss this thread and its ign watermark? XD Holy shit, that's fail. Did Capcom comment on it yet?

 

[Meesh]

I'm not certain how you would expect the game to recognize an infinite possibility of waggle expression. Unless you wish for the game world to be molded entirely of clay and for us to have the ability to freely sculpt and craft at our own leisure...seriously though, PS2 tech. It's a game, it defines rules and limitations for us to acclimate; would having 2 or 10 more options in how you smash a boulder really change things? Or wouldn't you end up just falling back on the same 1 motion out of the ten that gets the job done most efficiently to you regardless?

Waggling is a little different than stroking. Stroking would be moving you wrist/arm in a single direction, waggling is pretty much jerking off your controller. I'm saying there should be more freedom to interact differently with certain elements, to be able to destroy objects or enemies with strokes you see fit...a game doesn't have to be "molded out of clay" to to implement this type of mechanic.

Having a single defined motion makes mass consumption easier, to teach the audience 5 ways to perform the same task is inefficient design, particularly when the design is grounded in light puzzles and treasure hunts.

Wrong. Having to perform a certain task can, and does, alienate a gamer who isn't capable of what's required/expected. This can be extremely frustrating, Take Sonic for example, sure you're not painting or whatever the case may be, but the controls for me personally were terrible, not a great experience, especially for kids.

In the case of Okami, when your brush stroke isn't realised on screen, if it's not doing what you're intending, that can be annoying.(not half as much as Sonic) Granted, it works more often than not, but still, I feel the kinks should be ironed out.

I just realized you may be hoping that the slash routines would be more 1:1 motions, as in cut through object exactly where I paint...probably more of a low-tech issue. PS2 worked identically, it would be a radical redesign to shoehorn that sort of thing into this port.

That's really the point right there, the paint mechanics should have been more 1:1. A radical redesign? I don't think so, but it may have earned this port the "definitive verion" accolade it so easily could have achieved.

 

[Death_Born]

oh my god, how did I miss this thread and its ign watermark? XD Holy shit, that's fail. Did Capcom comment on it yet?

 

[HK-47]

Man what a trainwreck this thread is. What did the game do to have all you nitwits picking every little graphical nuance and technical quibble apart?

 

[LCGeek]

Man what a trainwreck this thread is. What did the game do to have all you nitwits picking every little graphical nuance and technical quibble apart?

Honestly it showed up on Wii which for various groups is another start to an argument anytime about a platform that is so divisive for one reason or another.

 

[VeritasVierge]

The brush gods say "origin of all that is good and mother to us all".

However, there's quite a few times where she's referred to as a "god". And during the quest where you're

Spoiler

finding the canine warriors, the dog in Kamiki says "man-to-man"

.

I haven't played the PS2 version to see if the two versions are any different in this regard.

Blargh. That actually happened in the PS2 version too. I was hoping the Wii version fixed that and accurately addressed her gender without so many mistakes.

 

[Haunted]

Man what a trainwreck this thread is. What did the game do to have all you nitwits picking every little graphical nuance and technical quibble apart?

LCGeek has the right idea.

 

[Death_Born]

Man what a trainwreck this thread is. What did the game do to have all you nitwits picking every little graphical nuance and technical quibble apart?

The Wii version is the definitive version of the game. So the fact that they didn't fix a bunch of problems is, well, problematic.

 

[Narag]

Blargh. That actually happened in the PS2 version too. I was hoping the Wii version fixed that and accurately addressed her gender without so many mistakes.

Was it like this in the jp ps2 version? Just wondering if it was intentional from the start.

 

[kevm3]

I really need to buy the artbook.

 

[HK-47]

Honestly it showed up on Wii which for various groups is another start to an argument anytime about a platform that is so divisive for one reason or another.

Those various groups need to sit in the fucking corner and take a long hard look at themselves then.

Every Okami Wii thread I've come across has been eyegougingly horrible, to the point where I dont even post. This was a game that failed so hard it dissolved the company that made it, to the chargan of all gamers who enjoy good games. Now its being given a second chance, but everyone would rather argue over paper filters, push anti waggle agendas, or curl up in their hugbox at the notion of Okami being some kind of Zelda killer.

Its pathetic.

 

[GremlinInTheMachine]

Man what a trainwreck this thread is. What did the game do to have all you nitwits picking every little graphical nuance and technical quibble apart?

It was moved to a different company's system and that always makes the fantards prissy.

 

[VeritasVierge]

Was it like this in the jp ps2 version? Just wondering if it was intentional from the start.

No idea about the JP original. In few instances in the game it kind of made sense she was simply called "god" since it was more or less acknowledging a deity and vague enough that it didn't matter. However, in some cases it was an obvious error and she's referred to as if she was masculine.

 

[Narag]

No idea about the JP original. In few instances in the game it kind of made sense she was simply called "god" since it was more or less acknowledging a deity and vague enough that it didn't matter. However, in some cases it was an obvious error and she's referred to as if she was masculine.

I noticed that the first time around and just wrote it off as if it was just to further how she was perceived versus what she actually is. Interesting.

 

[Jammy]

Those various groups need to sit in the fucking corner and take a long hard look at themselves then.

Every Okami Wii thread I've come across has been eyegougingly horrible, to the point where I dont even post. This was a game that failed so hard it dissolved the company that made it, to the chargan of all gamers who enjoy good games. Now its being given a second chance, but everyone would rather argue over paper filters, push anti waggle agendas, or curl up in their hugbox at the notion of Okami being some kind of Zelda killer.

Its pathetic.

.

 

[AgentOtaku]

Those various groups need to sit in the fucking corner and take a long hard look at themselves then.

Every Okami Wii thread I've come across has been eyegougingly horrible, to the point where I dont even post. This was a game that failed so hard it dissolved the company that made it, to the chargan of all gamers who enjoy good games. Now its being given a second chance, but everyone would rather argue over paper filters, push anti waggle agendas, or curl up in their hugbox at the notion of Okami being some kind of Zelda killer.

Its pathetic.

In my defense, I've ALWAYS wanted to try both versions....if anything, I'm probably gonna keep the Wii version as well as have the PS2 version

 

[Narag]

In my defense, I've ALWAYS wanted to try both versions....if anything, I'm probably gonna keep the Wii version as well as have the PS2 version

Agreed, there's definitely room for legitimate discussion of changes/tweaks/whatever between the two. Some people would rather take something ridiculous and run with it though.

 

[Sir Alemeth]

Seems like Capcom has troubles with game covers since day 1:

 

[Frencherman]

Seems like Capcom has troubles with game covers since day 1:

Holy crap! That was informative...

 

[Meesh]

Agreed, there's definitely room for legitimate discussion of changes/tweaks/whatever between the two. Some people would rather take something ridiculous and run with it though.

I've always wanted to play it, and I enjoy it a great deal so far...the art work is insane, colors, graphics, story, everything is great...my one and only comlaint is insignificant really when you take the whole experience in...but really, I have a minor quibble with just about everything I play...I'm cursed with being unsatisfied

 

[AgentOtaku]

Holy crap! That was informative...

sure was

 

[lastendconductor]

buy this game bitches

 

[Frencherman]

buy this game bitches

You just sound like Christian Svensson...:lol

 

[Jirotrom]

Fair point. In that limited context, I can see the similarity. They do use a similar style of audio cues. I was thinking more of the actual music, of which there really isn't anything alike.



I will, thanks -- glad to have your permission in that.

Kondo was a talented composer, but the Zelda series changed in a lot of thematic ways when it moved from 2D to 3D and his compositional style never changed to adjust. Aside from the fact that the same songs and melodies keep getting reused over and over and over again, most of them just aren't very good at accomplishing what needs to be accomplished musically. He's a composer that's still stuck in the 16-bit mentality -- he excelled at creating "jingle" music, typically short memorably thematic pieces. Now he's trying to do emotionally evocative music or atmospheric stuff (such as for dungeons and the like) or orchestral-styled "epic" music. His battle themes are almost shockingly inept. He and his sound team are like fish out of water. Kondo reminds me a lot of the Nobuo Uematsu who struggled to keep composing music for Final Fantasy as the medium evolved around him and he stayed right in place.

Anyway, think whatever you like -- the 3D Zelda music has still been unremarkable, mediocre, and often downright bad stuff. The handful of quality tracks one can yank out of each specific soundtrack doesn't change that. It's not even in the same league as Okami.

THANK YOU... I thought I was the only one.

 

[Threi]

Those various groups need to sit in the fucking corner and take a long hard look at themselves then.

Every Okami Wii thread I've come across has been eyegougingly horrible, to the point where I dont even post. This was a game that failed so hard it dissolved the company that made it, to the chargan of all gamers who enjoy good games. Now its being given a second chance, but everyone would rather argue over paper filters, push anti waggle agendas, or curl up in their hugbox at the notion of Okami being some kind of Zelda killer.

Its pathetic.

Internet gamers feel that they are entitled to have companies make decisions that suit their tastes.

Some forget that gaming is a privilege, not a right.

The fact that Capcom greenlighted this is pretty lucky for gamers, they should be greatful that Capcom had even let this title see the light of day again.

Gamers are such ungrateful pricks sometimes. I continually find it astonishing how they will collectively bitch about someone's efforts (even when they post on the forum!) as if they could do any better. Grab some money and make your own development studio then guys!