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[TheYanger]

Blizzard's always had a problem with developing content in a timely manner. It's why a lot of the old world content that they revamped in Cataclysm is starting to look outdated again compared to the leveling content in Pandaria and Draenor. To say nothing of the Burning Crusade starting areas for those races. They just seem incapable of working on an expansion and also either updating the game's quality across the board or adding new content. :\



Yeah, Guild Wars 2 has always been consistent about updates. It's not always been even in quality, and there is the issue of Living World season 1 content going away when a lot of it was really good, but ANet has been consistently the best about delivering content in a timely manner.

GW2 content is awful though, you can't divorce quality or effort from release speed. I know I'm not alone that getting 30 minutes owrth of content is basically meaningless, it's the difference between expansions and microtransaction DLC, one feels throwaway. They only extend GW2 content by making patches grinds for cosmetics and shit. Hey, repeat this new activity that takes 15 minutes 300 times to get something.

I'm like that in FF14 I'm dying of boredom. I've quit like 2 times because of it and I'm soon for a 3rd /:

The raid content in 14 has always been extremely underwhelming, same for dungeons, so I think I'm content buying an xpac, playing for a month, and letting it lapse until the next one. I'll do the story missions added in patches before the next expansion hits.

 

[Renkax]

I'm like that in FF14 I'm dying of boredom. I've quit like 2 times because of it and I'm soon for a 3rd /:

 

[oakenhild]

It's kind of the end of the path we've gone down since everything started copying wow. People like to LOL HARDCORE about Wildstar for example, but the difficulty and grindiness associated with older MMOs is why content lasted so long. Even early wow, didn't have a ton more content, it was just not designed to be chewed through in a month by your average player. I don't actually even think the hardest stuff was harder, it absolutely was not, but it was grindier and didn't have an 'easy mode' for you to half experience first, which certainly adds something to the experience when you're going through it if it's REALLY new.

I think a lot of gamers have changed, either gotten older or can see through the grindy content for what it is (a grind). Classic WoW and Everquest were amazing because of what they did for the time period they were in. That type of game and hardcore content doesn't seem to work very well for selling 10 million copies of a game and sustaining a player base anymore.

 

[Veldin]

http://anarchyonline.wikia.com/wiki/Missions

Bring it back. Random dungeons were hot fire before later patches took away their incentive. There's so much that could be improved on these days.

Also Neverwinter allowed players to make content but kind of squandered that too. More games should give it a shot.

 

[Sophia]

GW2 content is awful though, you can't divorce quality or effort from release speed. I know I'm not alone that getting 30 minutes owrth of content is basically meaningless, it's the difference between expansions and microtransaction DLC, one feels throwaway. They only extend GW2 content by making patches grinds for cosmetics and shit. Hey, repeat this new activity that takes 15 minutes 300 times to get something.

I mean... while it's not exactly my favorite type of content to be added, I can't say the content was awful when I actively enjoyed a lot of what they've added. The big problem was that a lot of the Living World season 1 stuff was removed, so people didn't get to see it. I heard a lot of great things about the Twisted Marionette fight for example, but it's not like I can go back and play it exactly.

 

[Pantaghana]

Just restarted playing Warframe about a couple weeks ago, they seem to be trying to add more content but the same grind is still there. Take a look at the newest piece of content loot - Lens. If you do not setup the lens correctly, it will take forever to fill out just one of the focus tiers. These games need to stop adding content that forces you to grind constantly.

I find the combat and the general gameplay to be fun, so "grind" is not really a problem.
But as with all games that are meant to be played for years and years, pacing yourself is very important.

 

[Ryaaan14]

It makes financial sense to dedicate resources towards large expansions instead of constant small/medium patches. Player retention + expansion hype is a huge boost, when otherwise they'd just plateau.

So yea droughts are kind of a necessary evil.

Perfect time to grind for BiS gear tho!!

 

[Speely]

Scripted experiences are always finite, and players will always devour this content and look around wondering what to do once they devour it. Building MMOs like single player games makes for interesting experiences, but this model will always suffer from content drought in the eyes of achievers.

While I prefer the idea of real world-affecting player-driven content, that skews toward PvP sandboxes generally, and that is clearly not what the OP is addressing. Moreover, this model hasnn't been done in a way that properly gives players agency to develop more than a bland sandbox or a churning pit of PvP massacre. Yet.

What about more sophisticated procedurally-generated content? Think rogue-like dungeons and/or world events that are affected by seasons, migratory patterns of mobs, etc. If a game had both hand-designed content and areas of ever-changing content, that might mitigate some of the drought between expansions. I have always wanted a MMO where new roguelike dungeons were added on a regular basis. If the devs had the proper approach from the start with this in mind, they could more easily release content driven by these procedural toolsets. Granted, this is not a perfect solution, but it could be really cool.

 

[shoreu]

The worst part about this is that Blizzard seems to take this as a Sign that they should be pushing out expansions each year is going to fix this, or when try tried to skimp us on content with Scenarios citing that Dungeons take up too much resources and they don't have enough time/ resources to get them done "yet our sub prices stayed the same".

I really don't understand why they just don't keep the patches rolling for a solid year or 2 and then after the last month give us a 6-month window until the next expansion comes out

 

[Gnomist]

Not to be flippant but the answer to why there are content droughts is because players consume content at an exponentially faster rate than anyone can hope to create it. I think most people dramatically underestimate the amount of time it takes developers to build content that they play through in minutes.

Maybe a more interesting and useful discussion (and partially related to the question) is what kind of content can developers create that can remain enjoyable for a long period of time. I think a lot of the time developers spend creating one-off (or simply short-lived) content could be better spent investing in systems that allow players to create their own content (this can take a variety of forms so don't get too hung up on one possible interpretation...it doesn't have to mean every MMO turns into Second Life). We do have to realize that at some point we're going to get tired of anything, no matter how high quality it is, but I absolutely think all the major players in the MMO space can be doing a much better job at creating longer-lasting content.

 

[Gunslinger]

p2p MMOs are on their way out IMO. Content droughts will be more apparent now that most MMOs are f2p with in game microtransaction like cartel market from SWTOR, or b2p with microtransaction like GW2. The companies don't feel the need to put out high quality content like they used to IMO. Even WoW one of the last p2p MMOs standing barely puts in content like they used to. Don't know about FFXIV since i never played it like that. Anyway what i am saying as the MMO genre is dying/ losing market appeal especially p2p ones content drought will get worse. If anything every future MMO will probably be just like destiny or division where they will release a b2p system. Probably add a couple more raids attached to season passes and release sequels. I don't think we will see AAA p2p MMO like wow or everquest or even SWTOR even though that was a massive failure (f2p less than a year). MMO genres are heading towards the same fate as FGs faced back in the late 90s.

 

[Ranmo]

Yeah I was hooked on FF XIV for quite sometime and I didn't think i'd get bored. Then about 2 months into HW I just started getting super bored from running my weekly tome stuff / raiding to stay relevant for content with my FC just felt like a drag.

Now I'm just focusing on my single player RPG backlog and playing PSO2 again. I play PSO2 at my own pace with friends and don't feel like I NEED to do anything. With that and Diablo I'm set for my online RPGs.

I didn't leave XIV in anger, it's still my go to tab target, but man is it a drag right now.

I figure if I ever want to continue the story, I can just join every few months and then leave again. Get the now older cosmetic items (at a MUCH faster pace) and move on to more offline games. It's just better management of my time.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Somehow read this as content doughnuts

 

[Sifl]

People are leaving FF14 because atm there's literally nothing to do endgame wise unless you raid (99% of the population can't even fucking clear the 3rd and 4th endgame raid anyway, so not like it fucking matters). Anything not involving raiding involves leveling alt battle classes or your crafters/gatherers. Only other things that can be considered endgame is the relic grind (lol) and pvp, which a lot of people aren't a fan of. Even I burnt myself out of that so now I only login 3 times a week to raid.

 

[family_guy]

If it's that big of an issue just stop subscribing when there's no content for you.

 

[Interficium]

The funniest part of this thread is hearing the players of different games come together with the same fucking complaints.

Destiny forums: "Bungie's content updates are UNACCEPTABLE! WoW has -regular- content updates. I'm quitting this game fuck you Bungie."

WoW forums: "It's been 1.5 years since we've had a new raid WTF Blizzard. Guild Wars has updates EVERY TWO WEEKS. I'm quitting this game fuck you Blizzard"

Guild Wars forums: "The content coming out every two weeks is AWFUL! Why can't we have the living world content back! Warframe has new weapons and warframes coming out EVERY WEEK! I'm quitting this game fuck you ArenaNet"

Warframe forums: "Every week there's new content that just requires you to grind for materials. New weapons are not REAL CONTENT. I'm quitting this game fuck you Digital Extremes"

Continue on into oblivion

 

[Enter the Dragon Punch]

If it's that big of an issue just stop subscribing when there's no content for you.

I do. That doesn't help when I want to play, but it's the exact same as when I left months and months ago.

 

[hotpants2k]

Spoiler

Ehh nevermind

Actually.

Since a few others below me touched on the same points I'll reiterate.

Dev's used to create a backdrop and the players fleshed out the details. The guy talking about themepark MMO's is on the right track.

The quest, collect, raid, repeat problem occured when WoW showed up, I guess the "lack of content" issue has hit critical mass now the F2P is the democratically elected standard for MMOs these days.

Older Korean MMOs were brutal, but I never heard complaints from friends of lack of stuff to do, like I said earlier- endgame was difficult to attain now looking at it in retrospect

 

[hotpants2k]

But this is what happens when you hand the reins over prematurely to newcomers that devolve into the collective mindhive

 

[family_guy]

I do. That doesn't help when I want to play, but it's the exact same as when I left months and months ago.

So do you pay to get back on and then realize there's no new content, or If you already know there's no new content, why would you want to play again?

 

[Linkark07]

I've heard that people are leaving Final Fantasy XIV in droves since Heavensward. Was Heavensward that bad?

Personally I left because after finishing the main story I didn't find any of the "post game content" to be interesting.

Might resub for a month after 3.2 goes out or if I manage to get some friends subscribe.

 

[BroodShadow]

on the topic of blizzard it makes me so sad to see them fail at this considering the burning crusade has so much content. it took most players months to even walk into t5/T6.
They were busy running heroics and T4 for months and doing dailes that you did not have to do for gear.

Blizzard has made close to that much before with wrath but the catch up gear ruins it for all but the most elite players.So all the players get stuck in ICC for 12months ect rather than be like hey guys do all this stuff and then you can walk into the last raid of the xpack.

It makes the game feel like it has way less than it does.

 

[Enter the Dragon Punch]

So do you pay to get back on and then realize there's no new content, or If you already know there's no new content, why would you want to play again?

Are you legitimately asking why I would want to play the game if there's no new content? I don't. I want to play the game because it's fun, and I wish there was more to do. It's okay to want to play a game, but not doing it because you know there isn't new content yet.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Yeah the reason WoW is dying seems to be clear to everyone but Blizzard - extreme content droughts. When was the last time a dungeon was added in a patch? 4.3? Why?

That and Blizzard's end game focus has always, always been hardcore raiding when only like 1% of the playerbase will bother doing Mythic.

 

[Alex]

You don't play XIV for the end game, you play the campaign and quit. It probably has the worst end game of the current crop of MMOs.I dunno, I took a break from the...nothing and they mailed me to let me know if I didn't resub my house would be torn down. Nice.

Warlords of Draenor was just a huge mess. It had some nice end game content but they tapped out after, what one real patch? Legion looks extremely nice but the content patches are getting so unhealthy it's poisoning the playerbase. I feel like they'd have sunk the whole ship by now if any of the competition was competent.

 

[Enter the Dragon Punch]

Yeah the reason WoW is dying seems to be clear to everyone but Blizzard - extreme content droughts. When was the last time a dungeon was added in a patch? 4.3? Why?

4.3, yes. Mists and Warlords had no 5 mans added - Blizzard said they took too much resources for too little value IIRC

It's why they had the awful 3 man scenarios in MOP

You don't play XIV for the end game, you play the campaign and quit. It probably has the worst end game of the current crop of MMOs.I dunno, I took a break from the...nothing and they mailed me to let me know if I didn't resub my house would be torn down. Nice.

Warlords of Draenor was just a huge mess. It had some nice end game content but they tapped out after, what one real patch? Legion looks extremely nice but the content patches are getting so unhealthy it's poisoning the playerbase. I feel like they'd have sunk the whole ship by now if any of the competition was competent.

Hey, are you implying that adding a selfie cam isn't a real patch?!

 

[TheYanger]

Yeah the reason WoW is dying seems to be clear to everyone but Blizzard - extreme content droughts. When was the last time a dungeon was added in a patch? 4.3? Why?

That and Blizzard's end game focus has always, always been hardcore raiding when only like 1% of the playerbase will bother doing Mythic.

If it was dying because of that, it would've died at launch. that hasn't changed. Players are more savvy and more experienced so they chew through things faster. For many of us the game was like that at launch because we already knew the basics of MMOs. The act of just talking to random people loses its luster so you do less of it, but the game is still there and you still COULD do it. The raids are now accessible to everyone, yet you say that it's the exclusivity that drives people away - the game was GROWING when that was true, not shrinking. Just pointing out that it's a lot more complex than you seem to be pretending it is
Reality: Game is shrinking because it's 11 years old.

 

[SummitAve]

Players started wanting and expecting high quality shit that takes too long and costs too much. EVE has managed to do it for like a decade and it has a lot to do with scope.

 

[Ragnaros]

Any chance that Blade & Soul will save us aince it has to catch up with the Asian version? This is how it was with iRO. Endless content on the horizon.

 

[Negator]

The Warlords expansion start was so strong, and then as time passed it just became a fucking joke. Such squandered potential that expansion had, then we realized we pretty much got the whole thing upfront. Three fucking raids for the entire expansion? Constant 6+ month stretches of no new stuff to do? Really Blizz?

 

[Sorian]

Any chance that Blade & Soul will save us aince it has to catch up with the Asian version? This is how it was with iRO. Endless content on the horizon.

Depends what kind of content you like. BnS is lots of strong PvP but on the PvE side of things it's just all constant grinds to the point where you feel like it's a job more than a game.

 

[Nokterian]

Any chance that Blade & Soul will save us aince it has to catch up with the Asian version? This is how it was with iRO. Endless content on the horizon.

They just hit 2 million players and looks like it keeps growing...Wildstar on the other hand dead in the water.

 

[Renekton]

Imagine if WoW has current-gen visuals.

It would take them forever to crank out content.

 

[Sylas]

This is a problem that's going to play MMO development until someone comes up with a decent way for user-generated content to get percolated throughout the world--or you have a staff of GMs constantly interacting with your playerbase and changing the world like you'd have in a LARP.

Revival from Illfonic has the right idea, I think, in having P2P servers with a live storyteller staff to run unique, player-driven events, while having F2P servers for people who aren't interested in an experience that's evolving. We'll see if they can actually back it up... But it's the first notable MMO I've seen that's tackling the issue of having to rely on handcrafted content from a strained development staff for every little thing.

I do think allowing players to generate quests to some degree could solve part of the content drought every MMO deals with. It's a shame STO and Neverwinter are kinda ass because their UGC is pretty cool. You'd obviously be lacking some things (new armors, skills, etc) but there are still neat things you could accomplish. I remember WoW used to have an addon that let you craft items you could trade to other players that had the same addon and it'd do neat things like tweak their graphical settings, allow you to make maps, books, and all sorts of little trinket objects. Supporting something like that would be cool. Let people design short (or not-so-short) quests that they can give to other players that reward weird little player-made objects.

 

[Midnight Bliss]

Granted I'm sure it's terrible when this happens with end game content in games like WoW or similar games which follow the Everquest and/or themepark model of mmos. But I feel another valid issue and concern, especially in a game like WoW is when replaying the game there hasn't been much added to change the experience of leveling a new character in a long while. Unless of course I'm missing something or I've done something incorrect, it still seems and feels like the same old thing.

At least games like FFXI and Ragnarok have tried to change things with trust teams and events/quests while working on new characters.

Then again this is a design of the type of mmo that something like WoW/Wildstar/FFXIV would be like. It's a shame we don't really have any mmos like ultima online these days.

 

[Azzurri]

Welcome to the world Theme Park MMO's. You rely on the devs to create content, but they're not humanly fast enough to create at the rate it's consumed i.e content locust. Why do you think every theme park mmo has a buttload of dallies? It's just an easy way to get people to replay content so they can buy some time.

It's the reason why games like DAoC, UO, Anarchy Online, Asheron Call 1 and 2 (now) Final Fantasy XI and multiple other MMO that are not Theme Park mmo's are still around is because they offer something different than just logging in and queuing up for instance dungeons and PvP and not even using the world that the devs created for the players in the first place.

Just look at how many upcoming MMO's have stopped the trying to copy the Theme Park design and going back to how MMO's use to be before WoW stagnated the genre for 10 years.

 

[Wagram]

I've heard that people are leaving Final Fantasy XIV in droves since Heavensward. Was Heavensward that bad?

It basically has to do with a problem that has plagued FFXIV since the relaunch. The content cycle is incredibly repetitive every cycle, and people are becoming tired of it. Heavensward was more of the same, and it felt like an update rather than a full fledged expansion, so a lot of people left, including myself. I was around since the very beginning of 1.0.

 

[Azzurri]

It's basically has to do with a problem that has plagued FFXIV since the relaunch. The content cycle is incredibly repetitive every cycle, and people are becoming tired of it. Heavensward was more of the same, and it felt like an update rather than a full fledged expansion, so a lot of people left, including myself. I was around since the very beginning of 1.0.

Yup, I was always believed if they would have kept 1.0 and just reworked it from there it would be more popular. 1.0 was bad, but at the end beofre the shutdown, the game was actually pretty good. They just turned it into another boring Theme Park MMO.

 

[Gnomist]

Yeah the reason WoW is dying seems to be clear to everyone but Blizzard - extreme content droughts. When was the last time a dungeon was added in a patch? 4.3? Why?

That and Blizzard's end game focus has always, always been hardcore raiding when only like 1% of the playerbase will bother doing Mythic.

Is this a serious post? Your first statement should be pretty obvious to answer (nevermind they've repeatedly said why): the amount of time it takes to create that content doesn't pay off in any meaningful way. Personally I think that means its time to rethink how dungeons are built so they're not the static, seen-it-once-seen-it-a-million-times affair. Legion looks to be addressing this with the difficulty modifiers which could be a good solution.

Your second statement seems to imply their focus is on that tiny audience who wants to complete Mythic raids when everything they've been doing for the last few expansions has been about making sure they provide a means for ANYONE to get in and see the raid content. Yes, they do have a Mythic tier for the dedicated groups, but they also have been providing ways for people with different play styles to see that content. To suggest their focus is only on the hardcore crowd is simply false.

 

[Taruranto]

I've heard that people are leaving Final Fantasy XIV in droves since Heavensward. Was Heavensward that bad?

It's pretty much the same. It's just that the honeymoon period is over.

You could see it coming from 2.0., many FFXI veterans called it because they understood what makes content last.

 

[kuroshiki]

while I don't play MMOs that much....I wanna say FF14 online. Isn't that gonna get an update soon?

Not even close buddy.

 

[Sylas]

Not even close buddy.

It's getting an update in 2 weeks. The updates are consistent, just not necessarily good.

 

[kuroshiki]

It's getting an update in 2 weeks. The updates are consistent, just not necessarily good.

No i meant ff14 also suffered from long ass content draught. I dont really expect a lot from 3.2 either

 

[Azzurri]

Another thing that really burns my buns is how horribly Trion Worlds handled ArcheAge. If it wasn't it's P2W business model this would probably be one of the best MMO's out right now.

 

[DJIzana]

No i meant ff14 also suffered from long ass content draught. I dont really expect a lot from 3.2 either

Pretty much why I don't want to go back to FFXIV. Paying monthly to play a game when you have nothing to do, cancelling and re-subbing each time there's new content... too much of a hassle and not worth it in the end.

 

[Squishy3]

XIV's drought is weird in that the current top-tier raids are terribly tuned in that completing the first two tiers doesn't mean you're ready for the 3rd floor, as the DPS checks suddenly get turned up to 11 compared to the previous floors. Beating the second floor of Alex Savage doesn't necessarily mean you were immediately ready for the 3rd floor.

They added a new trial with more powerful weapons to help groups progress on the third floor, but then you come to the terribly designed 4th floor where the best strategy is to ignore mechanics and employ a sacrifice strategy.

Plus there was 4 months between the launch of Heavensward and 3.1, and 3.1 was lacking in story content, but some significant additions in other areas (Diadem, while slightly mediocre, certainly took up a decent amount of resources for the patch.) and Lord of Verminion happened too, although that obviously wouldn't have the same planners as battle content, but would still take resources.

The problems with FFXIV right now though aren't something they can flip a switch and just fix overnight, though. It'll totally be a gradual progress, since they're now not making a game from scratch, they have to fix the current game. They need to look at the way they design and tune content, deal with stats, etc. It's something that'll probably take multiple patches to fix.

No i meant ff14 also suffered from long ass content draught. I dont really expect a lot from 3.2 either

To be fair, FFXIV's development team is relatively small at this point because presumably most of the Square Enix budgeting is probably going towards getting out the languishing projects like FFXV and KH3 and now the FF7 remake exists too. Hell, they only had 7-8 people for the localization of Heavensward and it apparently has as much text as The Witcher 3 and they had finished in about 2 and a half months. And they needed to borrow translators from the Bravely Second and Dragon Quest Heroes teams for 2 weeks for the expansion. In terms of funding, FFXIV is clearly in the "lull" period where it's a consistent revenue stream for Square and they don't feel the need to reinvest as heavily into it like they did for ARR where 1.0 was actively setting things on fire at Square-Enix.

 

[Taruranto]

To answer OP question, good itemization and a proper RPG system can go a long way to make content last.

The current FFXI isn't really that time-intensive for example or hard like it was years ago, and yet every content introduced offered plenty of playtime. There is more content in the last year of FFXI than in all of FFXIV.


FFXIV on other hand doesn't let you play around, stats have no depth, everything is essentially an exercise of repetition, to the battle system where you press 1-2-3 to maximize the DPS to the scripted boss battles. There is only one way to play the game, the way the developers meant it (barring some exceptions).

Also, I don't think Yoshi-P is really that competent. If Matsui can put out something like RoV with his skeleton crew on a 14 years old MMORPG that it's probably a mess to code, Yoshi-P really has no excuse.

 

[Nibiru]

I'm looking forward to Black Desert. It's more sandbox than narrative driven but the features in the game are really cool and the graphics and environments are stunning. Not saying it is a Wow killer or anything like that but I'm pretty excited about it.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

WoW's problem is something that it created itself, basically as soon as new content comes out all the old stuff is obsolete and meaningless.

So when expansion 3 comes out everything from expansion 2 has no more value then when patch 2 of expansion 3 comes out there is some dungeon or mechanic that fast tracks everyone to patch 2 content.

So they keep making all their old stuff worthless, basically making people not climb a ladder constantly at their own pace but always bumping them up to the last couple steps as the ladder gets taller.

 

[Altered Juice]

I've heard that people are leaving Final Fantasy XIV in droves since Heavensward. Was Heavensward that bad?

Others have already beat me to it so i'll keep it short cause i got the munchies atm

yes, HW still recycles patch content and the vocal players have realized that SE is simply taking them for a ride.

Two new dungeons with one being a remake. We used to have 3 dungeons but not anymore.

One boss fight that the majority of the playerbase can't last 3 minutes against so it results into into going around your server and cherry picking for decent players.

and one Raid that caters to hardcore or casuals.

same shit every 3 months. pvp is the only dynamic content they have. but one day i noticed a huge performance drop in my teammates and landslide matches and it turns out that PVE players were in the instance racking up endgame currency. so even they knew that their pve endgame was garbage that they to resort into farming pvp? jesus.

The vocal part of the community is very entitled and whiny. So as a result all the interesting content gets nerfed or adjusted. i remember the very first innovate boss fight they introduced called "Steps of Faiths" where you have to use artillery to prevent a large ass dragon from reaching the building.

Players in matchmaking couldn't work together so instead of a 8-10 minute epic fight to save the land of coerthas, it was changed to a 3 minute wack fight. Boss dies before he can reach the 1st mechanic.

We will never get an interesting boss fight like that again.