kunonabi
Member
So thats why the they look so awful.
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One in Four Anime Studios in the Red, Says Report
- Thread starter LordOfLore
- Start date
So thats why the they look so awful.
PdotMichael
Banned
It's always disturbing to see how mainstream is defined as toy commercials and DBZ by GAF.
If only the bunch of people would start talking about the old European - Japanese collaborations back in the 70's or the old WMT anime of adaptations of famous American/European youth novels like Heidi, Anne Shirley, A Dog of Flanders etc.. Or at least something like Captain Tsubasa which was big in Europe and Latin America.
If only the bunch of people would start talking about the old European - Japanese collaborations back in the 70's or the old WMT anime of adaptations of famous American/European youth novels like Heidi, Anne Shirley, A Dog of Flanders etc.. Or at least something like Captain Tsubasa which was big in Europe and Latin America.
Inelastic demand for physical media there (most likely because of the lack of storage space needed to support casual collections of physical media) keeps the price high. US prices there would result in lower profits.
Well, if they grew up with Toonami, that's the lens they view it through. It doesn't take much effort to dig beneath the surface, but most people couldn't be bothered.
ArchedThunder
Banned
The industry is on the verge of collapse because there aren't enough animators to go around and a fourth of the studios don't even make money. A lot of studios are going to go under in the coming years.
No, Toei Phils supports Toei's in-house staff. Neither of the recent movies and not a single Super episode have been done entirely by Toei Phils.
No, Toei Phils supports Toei's in-house staff. Neither of the recent movies and not a single Super episode have been done entirely by Toei Phils.
Seldomly Jambon
Member
Ew. Tried multiple times to watch ('cause Berserk) but I hate that animation style. Sucks real bad.
PSlayer
Member
Some people here saying that getting rid of the otaku/moe/loli stuff will fix the problem fail to realize that otakus/lolicons are the reason 3 out of 4 studios are NOT in the red.
The reason why a bluray with 2 episodes is so expensive is because there is a DEMAND for it in the sense that otakus are willing to pay for it. It's like Apple's huge profit margin on iphones.
Also since the entire industry is competing for the same niche audience basically, 75% seems to be a surprisingly good sucess rate and only shows how much energy and money this small group of dudes spent on their hobby.
The reason why a bluray with 2 episodes is so expensive is because there is a DEMAND for it in the sense that otakus are willing to pay for it. It's like Apple's huge profit margin on iphones.
Also since the entire industry is competing for the same niche audience basically, 75% seems to be a surprisingly good sucess rate and only shows how much energy and money this small group of dudes spent on their hobby.
You're not wrong I imagine.
I happen to like Chivalry of a failed knight per example, but if there is 1 successful light novel, you end up with 2.5 million mangas/ animes following the exact same recipe. Case in point CoafK which heavily copies Asterisk War which itself is hugely similar to a ton of other LNs, Mangas and Manwas that came before it.
If I never see again a story about a seemingly ostracized and underestimated but actually super gifted 16-20 yr old male, that through a misunderstanding forms a tsundere bond with a gorgeous but cold (actually super fiery and nice) girl who is herself rated top of class/ academy to end up in a contest/ trial/ tournament...
It will be too soon.
gustave154
Member
Five hours for a measly $2... feels bad man
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Your Name just smashed domestic and international box office records and yet people are still saying there's no anime that appeals to mainstream audiences anymore. Sigh.
You do realize that the anime targeting the mainstream market (shows like Doraemon etc) only represent a small percentage of the anime produced?
PdotMichael
Banned
So long people are running here with the term mainstream without any form of definition. It's a pointless discussion.
The highly visible problem in regards to moé and otaku is the '00s collapse of the OAV market. As I said in another thread, it provided a nice firewall between their icky tastes and the mainstream.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. There's a lot of anime being made that's targeted at anime/idol/game/LN otaku, certainly, but the picture you seemed to paint in your previous post, that all anime only panders to one specific small audience, is simply not correct. There's so much anime being made right now that there's everything from weird kids' merchandising shows such as Heybot to general audience shows airing on NHK General such as March Comes in Like a Lion and Atom the Beginning to mobile game promotional vehicles such as Granblue Fantasy and Rage of Bahamut to family-friendly films such as Lu Over the Wall and Mary and the Witch's Flower. People focus on the LN adaptations such as Akashic Records - and indeed those together with battle shounen manga adaptations usually get the biggest amount of attention in the English-speaking anime fan community - but variety is out there, easily found.
The fundamental problem with people going "if only anime studios would make more anime for the 'mainstream' and less for otaku they would make more money" is that the anime business is not shrinking - in fact, it is growing as of the latest 2016 industry report. Animation studios themselves often don't see any profits though, because of how the production committee system works. The current system is a result of unhealthy business habits baked in over generations, and the way to solve it is not to make more appealing anime, but to fundamentally change how the business works - how it's funded and organized. That may happen with more streaming and international company involvement, and a greater focus on film, but it's not going to be an easy process.
This is why the Berserk Anime (the new one) is a steaming pile of shit. It has crappy productions values, lazy developers/animators and a poor vision and no respect for the source material.
Thankfully Netflix and Amazon are reinvigorating the industry with their originals. Not to mention Crunchyroll.
That style can actually work if done right, see 'BLAME!' on Netflix. Berserk was just sloppy (and that's being nice!) execution and budget.
Thankfully Netflix and Amazon are reinvigorating the industry with their originals. Not to mention Crunchyroll.
That style can actually work if done right, see 'BLAME!' on Netflix. Berserk was just sloppy (and that's being nice!) execution and budget.
Hellraider
Member
I honestly believe the root of the problem is how dependent to the ridiculously small niches an anime's success is. The circle of extremely overpriced physical media that target a very specific and small group that's willing to spend a fortune which in turn shuts the door to mainstream audience is a fucked up situation. The amazing oxymoron of projects that have the most boring, overused and in general just plain bad tropes somehow turn out to be such risky projects yet studios (producers to be more precise) keep funding them ad infinitum is extremely worrisome and puts a horrible stain to the medium.
Anime industry needs to find a way out of this situation and there actually is a way out this time. Worldwide licensing and streaming services are at their absolute best and there is still huge room for growth. Box office revenue for anime works has also been really great lately in Japan. They need to stop funding Isekai LN just to promote a book to the same Japanese male teenager all the time. Projects than in order to succeed need just a couple of thousand people to spend enormous amounts of money have to go. They need to attract either the Japanese or the Worldwide mainstream audience (or even both if possible), have a cheaper way for the audience to support them with their wallets and just try to make better works. I refuse to believe that most of the people who work in this industry are creatively happy with what they make.
There is also the huge problem of the sweatshop-like conditions that are just unacceptable which are definitely not gonna go away unless the industry gets healthier. But the industry will definitely not get healthier unless they produce better works, and these conditions are a huge obstacle to it. It's a horrible circle.
Anime industry needs to find a way out of this situation and there actually is a way out this time. Worldwide licensing and streaming services are at their absolute best and there is still huge room for growth. Box office revenue for anime works has also been really great lately in Japan. They need to stop funding Isekai LN just to promote a book to the same Japanese male teenager all the time. Projects than in order to succeed need just a couple of thousand people to spend enormous amounts of money have to go. They need to attract either the Japanese or the Worldwide mainstream audience (or even both if possible), have a cheaper way for the audience to support them with their wallets and just try to make better works. I refuse to believe that most of the people who work in this industry are creatively happy with what they make.
There is also the huge problem of the sweatshop-like conditions that are just unacceptable which are definitely not gonna go away unless the industry gets healthier. But the industry will definitely not get healthier unless they produce better works, and these conditions are a huge obstacle to it. It's a horrible circle.
i don't know.
For my generation ('90s in Italy), there's only one thing more mainstream than DBZ, and that's soccer.
The Silver
Member
It definitely ain't just dude's buying a bunch of super expensive crap nowadays,
Sibersk Esto
Banned
You're right, the highest sellers are sexy dude animes that are gobbled up by female anime fans.
Everyone should read this five part article, which was linked in another thread:
http://neojaponisme.com/2011/11/28/the-great-shift-in-japanese-pop-culture-part-one/
It was written in 2011, but still does an excellent job of explaining the decline we've seen in Japanese pop culture.
For the tl;dr types: The middle class shrunk and stopped buying things, but marginal/niche groups kept spending at the same rate because their identity is inseparably tied to consumerism, so their influence on pop culture became extremely disproportionate.
http://neojaponisme.com/2011/11/28/the-great-shift-in-japanese-pop-culture-part-one/
It was written in 2011, but still does an excellent job of explaining the decline we've seen in Japanese pop culture.
For the tl;dr types: The middle class shrunk and stopped buying things, but marginal/niche groups kept spending at the same rate because their identity is inseparably tied to consumerism, so their influence on pop culture became extremely disproportionate.
psychowave
Member
Pretty much. The anime industry seems incredibly risk-averse with how studios all largely try to pander to the same two niches (male otaku or fujoshi) with every single show they make. Stuff like Attack on Titan or One Punch Man have the right idea: series with an intriguing premise that can be enjoyed by everyone because they don't alienate half of the population. Of course not every non-harem, non-sports anime is gonna be a huge worldwide hit like those two, but maybe the industry wouldn't be in the state it is now, either.
petran79
Banned
It also matters than in a lot of Western countries kids population is far less when compared to the 70s-90s.
Heidi got a 3D adaptation, but not by a Japanese studio. Still, design and characters are exactly like the 70s series. It is very popular. Maya the Bee got the same treatment.
Too bad Miraculous Ladybug went from this
to this
As for Mysterious Cities of Gold, having watched the 80s series, I couldnt stand the CGI animation of the newer series.
Even as a kid I knew that that 2D animation had something special and expressive.Something lost in those CGI renditions.
Only exception was the new Lupin III series that got broadcast in Italy, but it appeals to an older audience
Then you have definitely misinterpreted my post. If I had talked about "all anime", I would have written it as such, instead of going for the simple term which is, from my point of view, acceptable as it means the majority. These anime were always being made (though, I wouldn't count Granblue Fantasy and such as mainstream (or formerly mainstream in the case of anime)).
When I said the mainstream market broke away, I was talking about Japan's bubble bursting which hurt a lot of industries and especially the entertainment ones such as anime, manga and also music. As the average family didn't have money to spend on anime anymore, the audience shifted towards otakus - niche markets that spend less money on "standard" goods but more on their interests. As such, companies started to target that audience, pandering to them, which also meant a change in the output of anime.
The music industry in Japan is similar to the anime industry....and not just because of their idol garbage.
As I've said in a previous post: Creating more anime for the (previously existing) mainstream market won't help anyway, as the audience doesn't have the purchase power (and/or willingness) to support the industry. And yes, I agree with what else you say. Unfortunately, they really missed the opportunity when it was huge back in the day (90s) and I actually doubt they will make it anytime soon. From what I've seen, the anime community here mostly consists of 80s and 90s kids, there aren't many teens around.
Seems to support what I'm saying, need to read it later.
MikeHattsu
Member
There's kids anime, but a lot of that never gets translated/released outside Japan.
Fork on the Left
Member
Don't you think it's a little shitty that people are potentially going to be losing their jobs and everyone's just going "lol anime is trash burn it down?" Like don't get me wrong there's an oversaturation of samey bullshit but why the overall lack of empathy in that regard?
Personally, I don't think the industry can turn itself around. The people who profit off of the anime biz, who are actually not the studios themselves, have no reason to feed into the actual production side beyond altruism. The industry needs to collapse first before they can rewrite the pipeline from the ground up. Unfortunately, this means losing a generation or two of talent, but maybe there's a way to salvage it via crowdfunding and international deals (Amazon, Netflix, etc) while the domestic situation gets sorted out.
It does suck but the current state of the anime industry is already unhealthy on the production side in many regards. It is bound to contract given many of the reasons people have already said -- oversaturation of content, lower purchasing power of the wider population, untenable wage structures, etc. This is one of those cases where some jobs are bound to be lost regardless, but at least there might be hope for those who are left to create a more sustainable growth plan.
MikeHattsu
Member
Master Of Illusion
Member
They don't.
Quite a few people die on the job too. It's common enough that there's even a Japanese term for it.
One can only eat ramen for so long.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
But what about Shirobako!
MikeHattsu
Member
Part of the 20% that makes it!
DiipuSurotu
Banned
They should do an anime (or manga) chronicling the life of an anime animator
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Well, that was Shirobako. lol
No homeless animators and people quitting on that show, as far as I know!
DerangedHermit
Member
pretty sure one of the dudes quit to become a baker or some shit like that.
Nils Holgersson and Vic The Viking as well. Studio 100 owns quite a bit of that stuff nowadays.
He was a producer (manages staff/liasons with others) and he did pretty well for himself but wanted to follow his dreams...
TheGamingBox
Banned
people should read this thread before talking about stuff they know nothing about https://twitter.com/MilesExpress999/status/866023831839817728
NaDannMaGoGo
Member
Can't he write an article on Crunchyroll instead of these piecemeal twitter tweets :/
I'm a huge anime fan but Jesus, like 95% of anime is terrible. I know they gotta make a lot of tropey harem shit to appeal to otaku but lord do I need more shows like dennou coil and planetes.
I'd even take a tumblr post
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Oh. Didn't know about it lol
Yeah, this is the basic problem. Production, rather than anime studios, own the creations. And creators of IPs like One Piece or whatever provide their IPs through those production committees, meaning the anime studio doesn't see the profits of their work, the production committees do. There's currently no incentive for production committees to think of anything other than profits (just another case of why worker unions are necessary).
I'd say in the West the situation is reversed, and it is the broadcast studios/channel who have the clout to adapt based according to their tastes; people need to realize that there is no solution whereby anime production studios engage selectively in what they want to adapt, they have no leverage at the financial or executive level. There are only a few exceptions to this, most notably KyoAni, who run a very tight ship by anime studio standards and even have their own publishing arm so they keep everything in-house as much as possible.
And guess what, KyoAni is responsible for a lot of the moe stuff that this thread scoffs at.
And guess what, KyoAni is responsible for a lot of the moe stuff that this thread scoffs at.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
How much does the average episode of anime cost to make?
Sibersk Esto
Banned
About 200k US on average I believe.
American cartoons function much like live action shows do. Creator(s) pitch a show or manage to produce a pilot, and broadcast channels pick it up for a season.
The way anime works is equivalent to Hasbro's stranglehold on 80s cartoons, or all those movie spinoff cartoons in the 90s.