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[TheMagician]

Hard to judge online dating.

Of the 7 girls I met before my current gf, 5 of them wanted to do it after the first date. I'm just an average looking guy as well, nowt special!

All 5 of them before hand mentioned how they hated that sort of thing etc either on their profile or as we chatted on the site.

Do other people find this happens? Seems like most of em just want to date forever without ever staying with someone.

 

[Spuck-uk]

I'm so sick of being passively judged for doing something I enjoy. I'm sick of pretending I'm someone I'm not just so I can find a companion in life. I'm to the point now where if you don't like me for who I am then your loss.

Don't like that I play video games? Don't care!
Don't like that I watch anime in my mid thirties? Don't care!
Don't like my amiibo collection? Don't care!

I will continue to be me and be happy. Online dating is more trouble than it's worth anyway. Attractive women get all the attention and everyone else is ignored. Terrible for ones self esteem!

In my experience as a guy in my thirties who watches Anime, plays games (okay, I don't have a bunch of Nintendo toys). People are in general only as weird about it as you are.

If the only thing you have in your life, your only hobby is playing games, consuming entertainment, it's just not that interesting or attractive to a lot of people. Either accept it as the fella above me has, or make more of an effort to actually DO creative, productive things with your time.

Would anyone date a girl whose only hobby or interest was watching Netflix?

 

[Kacho]

In my experience as a guy in my thirties who watches Anime, plays games (okay, I don't have a bunch of Nintendo toys). People are in general only as weird about it as you are.

If the only thing you have in your life, your only hobby is playing games, consuming entertainment, it's just not that interesting or attractive to a lot of people. Either accept it as the fella above me has, or make more of an effort to actually DO creative, productive things with your time.

Would anyone date a girl whose only hobby or interest was watching Netflix?

I'm too lazy for all of that. I work full time so I'm tired when I get home. Consuming entertainment is about all I have energy for. If that means I'll be single for the rest of my life then so be it. Like I said, I'd rather be happy then pretend I'm someone I'm not. Maybe I'll just get a cat at some point.

Oh and I would totally date a girl who only watches Netflix. I care about the girl herself, not her hobbies. People wear hiking and running marathons on their sleeves like a badge of honor. No thank you!

 

[Forearm Star]

8 hours is a long time

 

[Algebrah]

In my experience as a guy in my thirties who watches Anime, plays games (okay, I don't have a bunch of Nintendo toys). People are in general only as weird about it as you are.

If the only thing you have in your life, your only hobby is playing games, consuming entertainment, it's just not that interesting or attractive to a lot of people. Either accept it as the fella above me has, or make more of an effort to actually DO creative, productive things with your time.

Would anyone date a girl whose only hobby or interest was watching Netflix?

I have to agree with this as much as it can hurt to hear initially because I was in a similar situation. It came to me when I was writing my online profile on OkCupid and realized I didn't think I would want to date me since "Gaming and movies" sounded so boring. That revelation changed my life. I went out and did more things, I joined a volleyball league having never played volleyball before, went to the gym nearly every day, and tried other things that I decided I wasn't into but glad I tried (improv comedy). I met so many people along the way and I am a much happier person as a result. I am very introverted too.

Two years later I am marrying the love of my life in July and we regularly play video games with each other and next to each other (we are currently playing Yakuza together).

 

[Falchion]

I'm so sick of being passively judged for doing something I enjoy. I'm sick of pretending I'm someone I'm not just so I can find a companion in life. I'm to the point now where if you don't like me for who I am then your loss.

Don't like that I play video games? Don't care!
Don't like that I watch anime in my mid thirties? Don't care!
Don't like my amiibo collection? Don't care!

I will continue to be me and be happy. Online dating is more trouble than it's worth anyway. Attractive women get all the attention and everyone else is ignored. Terrible for ones self esteem!

There's nothing here that should be a deal breaker for any girl. Unless you choose to only do this stuff and never want to go out, hang with friends, etc then there's no problem. I know a ton of girls that just bury themselves in their Kindle or Netflix queue all the time. Their only real hobbies are consuming media in some form or another like you, it's just a matter of what medium it is.

To me, your situation is so much better than a lot of people out there who don't actually have developed hobbies or interests outside of work and their relationships.

 

[Algebrah]

I'm too lazy for all of that. I work full time so I'm tired when I get home. Consuming entertainment is about all I have energy for. If that means I'll be single for the rest of my life then so be it. Like I said, I'd rather be happy then pretend I'm someone I'm not. Maybe I'll just get a cat at some point.

Oh and I would totally date a girl who only watches Netflix. I care about the girl herself, not her hobbies. People wear hiking and running marathons on their sleeves like a badge of honor. No thank you!

I hate to sound like Mr. Motivational Speak here but you are being your own worst enemy here. I love movies and games more than anyone else I know and I still find time for hobbies after working my full time job everyday. You just have to push yourself to try it.

Don't change who you are but try exploring different hobbies. Try cooking or maybe a simple craft like drawing, painting, or origami. Listing any of those thing in your profile would jump out at me more than 4 out 5 profiles that say that they enjoy Netflix. Even if you didn't like those things, you got out there and tried something new.

 

[always crazy bacon]

There's nothing here that should be a deal breaker for any girl. Unless you choose to only do this stuff and never want to go out, hang with friends, etc then there's no problem. I know a ton of girls that just bury themselves in their Kindle or Netflix queue all the time. Their only real hobbies are consuming media in some form or another like you, it's just a matter of what medium it is.

To me, your situation is so much better than a lot of people out there who don't actually have developed hobbies or interests outside of work and their relationships.

It's good when you are at home relaxing getting your game on instead of being pestered by a bored girlfriend who needs entertaining.

When I was younger I made sure there was a TV in the bedroom, just for them.
Now I make sure they have their own iPad. For the same reason, they curl up under a blanket with snacks and binge watch TV when at home. We can't always be out doing interesting things.

 

[Spuck-uk]

I have to agree with this as much as it can hurt to hear initially because I was in a similar situation. It came to me when I was writing my online profile on OkCupid and realized I didn't think I would want to date me since "Gaming and movies" sounded so boring. That revelation changed my life. I went out and did more things, I joined a volleyball league having never played volleyball before, went to the gym nearly every day, and tried other things that I decided I wasn't into but glad I tried (improv comedy). I met so many people along the way and I am a much happier person as a result. I am very introverted too.

Two years later I am marrying the love of my life in July and we regularly play video games with each other and next to each other (we are currently playing Yakuza together).

You go, Glen Coco!

Paradoxically, going out and exercising actually gives you more energy in the long run, and expands your social circle*



*right until the moment you herniate a disk in your back and/or snap your cruciate ligament, thanks Judo.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

If you're only 'accepting' 1 in 50 women, I think you're missing out on a lot of great people. Why do you dismiss 49 out of 50 women? It is based on their looks, what they write or just a feeling?

All three, really. Sometimes I find the person physically attractive but then they say something in their profile that I consider a deal breaker (like being super-religious and expecting me to be as well or something like that), sometimes their profile is witty or charming but I'm not attracted to the person physically, and then sometimes it's just a vibe that we wouldn't be compatible.

 

[animax]

You need to downplay yourself a bit for first online impression, girls are on these apps begging for normality. Once you've met in person and had a few dates you can start to discuss your particular hobbies/quirks etc.

Like, if you met this person in a bar you wouldn't be opening the conversation with "do you like computer games" so don't do that in your dating profile either!

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

You need to downplay yourself a bit for first online impression, girls are on these apps begging for normality. Once you've met in person and had a few dates you can start to discuss your particular hobbies/quirks etc.

Like, if you met this person in a bar you wouldn't be opening the conversation with "do you like computer games" so don't do that in your dating profile either!

I think that's good advice.

 

[Principate]

I guess Hull and Birmingham are full of crazy women?



Oh, don't get me wrong, most are 'hey' but I've had a few interesting ones like those and one women who asked me about boxers or briefs as a first message; which is less interesting.



I've fallen for a lot of women who I only heard their voice or chatted with them. From Xbox Live, Teamspeak to just chatting on snapchat (I fell for a girl who only snap chatted things and never selfies of herself) and I found those experiences to be way more engaging because you fall for the personality and idea of someone than just their superficial qualities such as their looks. I've also met women who were interested in me in these scenarios but I wasn't that into them and vice versa and that's fine too. I just feel like dating has become way more about looks but maybe thats just a thing as I've gotten older? I remember at school just texting random girls who I didn't think were that hot but really made me laugh and held good conversations and that made me attracted to them - something which rarely happens when the first thing you see on Tinder is a 'glamor shot' or something.

I've tried the whole meeting girls in bars thing too and it works but it feels really lame and left me wanting more than those fleeting connections and such.

I also used to appear on stage at big gaming conventions when I was a 'known' YouTuber and that caused issues on the night events when everyone was drunk - you never knew if the girls were just there because they had seen you on stage a few hours earlier and surrounded by kids signing things for hours because Minecraft sucks the life out of you and seemingly gives it to the hundreds of kids who never let you move at those places. This all made me very weary about meeting people and I had a lot of fleeting romances at these events and even a few relationships but nothing really meaningful.

Can confirm on Birmingam

 

[Poppy]

whats important to remember is no one by default gives a shit about you as a potential date, hence why you must make a display showing your worth to potential partners, be they sexual or romantic

so when you say hey, im not gonna pretend im something im not just for the sake of others, they gotta like me for me! you know, i totally get that and respect it, im the same way really. but what it means is that you are going to be alone forever unless you simply get incredibly lucky

i have accepted this, hopefully you do too, because to think you can project your true manchild self and catch anyone is delusional. and im not saying that to make fun of you cause as i said, i get it. i play video games and browse the internet and watch netflix, and other than cooking and my cats and getting high that is my whole life, and aint no flies going after that honey

 

[Principate]

whats important to remember is no one by default gives a shit about you as a potential date, hence why you must make a display showing your worth to potential partners, be they sexual or romantic

so when you say hey, im not gonna pretend im something im not just for the sake of others, they gotta like me for me! you know, i totally get that and respect it, im the same way really. but what it means is that you are going to be alone forever unless you simply get incredibly lucky

i have accepted this, hopefully you do too, because to think you can project your true manchild self and catch anyone is delusional. and im not saying that to make fun of you cause as i said, i get it. i play video games and browse the internet and watch netflix, and other than cooking and my cats and getting high that is my whole life, and aint no flies going after that honey

Breh it's all about selling yourself. Not everyone is after traditionally amazing catches and many don't even know what you they want. Even from a casual conversational perspective being good at and interested in cooking and liking cats is more than enough to generate interest in yourself. You just have to be able to market the rest of yourself. Rather than chubby your a cuddly guy. From the Netflix show's talk about the ones they'd have the most interest in etc. Talk about the things you are and are into but in a way that'd generate fuzzy feelings and thoughts which then indirectly apply to yourself.

It's not that difficult to market yourself and generate interest in yourself if you know how and put in the effort to improve certain aspects of yourself. From that point on it's the usual. Everyone hides certain aspects of themselves initially it'll depend on the person how much of deal breaker those aspects are.

 

[Poppy]

oh i totally agree with that, i guess i just meant that it takes a modicum of effort to spin your obsessions and likes into something that is relatable to people you just met, and some people like me are too gosh darn lazy to do much else than say "i liek videogame and pizza, pls marry me and my cats and we can sit on the couch together 4ever"

but for people that ARENT lazy failures its definitely all about that spin and marketing. like they say, theres nothing wrong with being yourself, but sometimes you have to be the best version of yourself

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Online dating can be hard, but there are some diamonds out there.

I'm an overweight bearded brown man with a turban, and I lucked and am currently dating a hilarious hottie that's totally into me for reasons I still do not fully grasp. Met her on POF.

I mean, like 90% of the profiles I come across are either a dumpster fire or shot me down in flames, but there are some good ones here and there. Be nice, be honest, don't be a doormat, be confident, be funny. Heck, the only reason she agreed to go out on a first date with me was because I was the only guy at the time on POF that sent her a message that she genuinely found funny, and most people on these dating sites just go "Hey" or say some dumb pickup line or are actively misogynistic, etc.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Also, for guys:

If you aren't already doing so, wear boxer briefs. They'll make you feel good and confident. Be honest with your pictures. Showcase that you have some ambitions. Don't take yourself super seriously. Don't be overly self-deprecating, it's a turn-off for the majority of women.

Do all the right things, and for most guys, most girls will still ignore them. You have to be persistent. It's like real life.

 

[Kyrios]

Was thinking about starting, probably on Match. First time trying the online dating scene so should be interesting. Just plan on being myself and seeing how far that goes.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Was thinking about starting, probably on Match. First time trying the online dating scene so should be interesting. Just plan on being myself and seeing how far that goes.

One thing I learned about online dating:

Don't "be yourself". Don't be someone else. Be the best version of yourself.

 

[Kyrios]

One thing I learned about online dating:

Don't "be yourself". Don't be someone else. Be the best version of yourself.

So just best qualities and what I'm good at basically? Basically selling myself.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

So just best qualities and what I'm good at basically? Basically selling myself.

To an extent, yes.

My friend gave me access to her OKC profile, and I've spent the last couple days filtering through the approaches and profiles of other guys on these sites. There is a lot of bland, negative, and just bad approaches and profiles.

A lot of guys don't know how to sell themselves to women. You want to minimize negative things about yourself, or spin them in a funny self-deprecating (but not overly deprecating fashion).

For me, for example, I've lost 80 pounds in the previous three years. But I still have 20-30 to lose, right? So I was honest about that:

"Love working out and getting fit! That James Bond body is coming "

So yes, I'm overweight, but I'm working on it. Not everything can be spun, but you want to minimize putting yourself down.

Maximize your best qualities, your interesting hobbies and likes/dislikes, and show yourself to be either:

a) a fun and funny guy to be around

or

b) an interesting and compelling person to be around

I've found that these two approaches seem to at least gain the notice of more women more often than not.

You want at least three good pictures. A good close up, an active picture, and a body shot. Don't do the myspace angles, it's dishonest and most people see through it.

You also have to go into it with the mindset that you're going for broke, but have to be okay with failure, otherwise it can get bitter quickly. Be bold, send jokes to women, actually read their profiles, see what you guys have in common, and remember:

You will be ignored. You have to go into it realizing that a lot of women may ignore you, but there's two things:

1) rejection can be good. It keeps incompatible people apart
2) women are inundated with messages. In the last two days, my friend's account (she's a very cute girl) got 200 messages on OKC, nearly 500 likes, and 600 something views. How's a girl supposed to keep up with all that?

Online dating can be a cesspool, but a lot of the time it's bitter or dumb guys who don't know how to talk to women or approach them that are poisoning the well for themselves.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

There's nothing wrong with saying that you enjoy gaming, but don't say "I like going on gaming binges!" You want to be presentable.

Think of online dating as a massive bar: the guy who's well-dressed, ambitious, confident but not a dick has the best chance overall. If you're really good looking, that'll rank you up a notch, but if you don't have the personality to back up your looks, most women get tired of it. IF you have a great personality, but you're not a looker or you're not fit, or whatever, you have a chance, but it's a lower chance, but the chance is still there.

If you're just a cunt or an asshole or you're constantly hating on yourself, you have nearly zero chance.

 

[JDHarbs]

I think it just comes down to showing maturity. A guy loving games is no different than a girl that loves Disney movies, but one has a stereotype around it and not the other.

You just have to prove that you're not the stereotype. Display yourself as a regular guy that enjoys games.

 

[Kyrios]

To an extent, yes.

My friend gave me access to her OKC profile, and I've spent the last couple days filtering through the approaches and profiles of other guys on these sites. There is a lot of bland, negative, and just bad approaches and profiles.

A lot of guys don't know how to sell themselves to women. You want to minimize negative things about yourself, or spin them in a funny self-deprecating (but not overly deprecating fashion).

For me, for example, I've lost 80 pounds in the previous three years. But I still have 20-30 to lose, right? So I was honest about that:

"Love working out and getting fit! That James Bond body is coming "

So yes, I'm overweight, but I'm working on it. Not everything can be spun, but you want to minimize putting yourself down.

Maximize your best qualities, your interesting hobbies and likes/dislikes, and show yourself to be either:

a) a fun and funny guy to be around

or

b) an interesting and compelling person to be around

I've found that these two approaches seem to at least gain the notice of more women more often than not.

You want at least three good pictures. A good close up, an active picture, and a body shot. Don't do the myspace angles, it's dishonest and most people see through it.

You also have to go into it with the mindset that you're going for broke, but have to be okay with failure, otherwise it can get bitter quickly. Be bold, send jokes to women, actually read their profiles, see what you guys have in common, and remember:

You will be ignored. You have to go into it realizing that a lot of women may ignore you, but there's two things:

1) rejection can be good. It keeps incompatible people apart
2) women are inundated with messages. In the last two days, my friend's account (she's a very cute girl) got 200 messages on OKC, nearly 500 likes, and 600 something views. How's a girl supposed to keep up with all that?

Online dating can be a cesspool, but a lot of the time it's bitter or dumb guys who don't know how to talk to women or approach them that are poisoning the well for themselves.

That's some amazing advice! Definitely be taking all of this into account.

I figured women probably get a TON of messages a day, so it wouldn't surprise me if I get ignored and I have a feeling the first month wil probably be really bumpy, just have to hang in there.

 

[sneas78]

I'm so sick of being passively judged for doing something I enjoy. I'm sick of pretending I'm someone I'm not just so I can find a companion in life. I'm to the point now where if you don't like me for who I am then your loss.

Don't like that I play video games? Don't care!
Don't like that I watch anime in my mid thirties? Don't care!
Don't like my amiibo collection? Don't care!

I will continue to be me and be happy. Online dating is more trouble than it's worth anyway. Attractive women get all the attention and everyone else is ignored. Terrible for ones self esteem!

I met my wife online. Don't give up buddy... I have been thru what you describe.. We have a 14 year old boy and a 9 year old girl. Now I had to give up some gaming time ... however gaming is part of my life even today ... I will say this .. when it's ment .. you won't have to worry about who will stick around ...

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

It's very easy to become bitter when you're dating online. You need to be hardy and be okay with it taking a long time potentially and be okay with rejection before getting into it

 

[Host Samurai]

Idk what it is, but I seem to be a big hit with cougars on these apps. 4/6 of the last chicks I've hooked up with off these apps were 40-48.

 

[always crazy bacon]

Idk what it is, but I seem to be a big hit with cougars on these apps. 4/6 of the last chicks I've hooked up with off these apps were 40-48.

I found a few unhappy wives in that age range looking for fun.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Idk what it is, but I seem to be a big hit with cougars on these apps. 4/6 of the last chicks I've hooked up with off these apps were 40-48.

I found a few unhappy wives in that age range looking for fun.

Hmmmm

 

[AndersK]

Also try not to open a convo with 'Hi ' or variations there off. That shit is boring, and she gets 15 of them a day. I can second the be compelling or funny advice, or at least just try to be. I'm 40 pounds overweight and tinder has been a very positive experience. (20ish dates, some flings and a current girlfriend).

Sure, you'll face rejection and girls will sometimes just don't reply or unmatch you (being funny or interesting can sometimes come off as being strange I guess). But you can do stuff that reflect your interests without it being a problem. I've attended a screening of GoT on a first date and talked about Gotg. You don't make 'nerd' your only characteristic.

 

[Spuck-uk]

I think it just comes down to showing maturity. A guy loving games is no different than a girl that loves Disney movies, but one has a stereotype around it and not the other.

You just have to prove that you're not the stereotype. Display yourself as a regular guy that enjoys games.

Girls that are overly into Disney Movies and have a bedroom filled with Disney stuff are as much of a red flag to me, as guys too into Anime with rooms full of wallscrolls and figures are to most women.

 

[daffy]

my other car is a magic carpet

 

[Nastrodamous]

Bumble is the way to go imo. Im not very attractive at all and i get dates through bumble.

 

[Llyranor]

NTGYK's advice is pretty sound.

I know some people say to not even mention games in your profile, but I think you can if it's just in passing and the rest of your profile is well-rounded and funny. But, if you give the impression that it's all you do all-day everyday, or that it somehow constitutes your personality, it may be harder to find someone who will accept that exactly as is.

Back in the day, all I included in the profile in the "I am good at:" section was a brief "Video games! :nervous laugh:" joke, but more importantly it was just in passing, and there were more important stuff in that section/list

 

[always crazy bacon]

Thinking of this topic I just had a memory of the times I went speed dating in the early 2000's. Do they even do speed dating any more?

Basically Tinder, but in person and a lot of the complaints about Online dating were exactly the same when I remember it.

Ghosting
Non responses to contact even when you had a match
Women expecting to find Brad Pitt
Women that were there for a night out but not looking for a partner

I guess the unique one was the support group for that one woman who was hopeless. You would get them on rotation and they were some of the better women there, could hold a conversation, looked nice but they told you there were only there for a friend "who was a great girl really". Then you met the friend.. yeah.

 

[Algebrah]

When I was online dating, I read (listened on Audible to) Modern Romance by Aziz Ansari and I found it very interesting and surprising helpful. I would recommend it to anyone that is dating in 2017.

 

[Pantaghana]

So, seems online dating isn't really popular where I am. There only seems to be 20 people active (25km search radius, last active in the last week, men and women combined, more women interestingly). A decent chunk of profiles are barely filled out or completely blank.

Either that, or people in Croatia prefer a different site instead of OkCupid.

 

[Ogodei]

I have to agree with this as much as it can hurt to hear initially because I was in a similar situation. It came to me when I was writing my online profile on OkCupid and realized I didn't think I would want to date me since "Gaming and movies" sounded so boring. That revelation changed my life. I went out and did more things, I joined a volleyball league having never played volleyball before, went to the gym nearly every day, and tried other things that I decided I wasn't into but glad I tried (improv comedy). I met so many people along the way and I am a much happier person as a result. I am very introverted too.

Two years later I am marrying the love of my life in July and we regularly play video games with each other and next to each other (we are currently playing Yakuza together).

Kind of where i'm at at the moment. I do a bunch of different things on days off sometimes, but never enough to call a hobby without lying.

Kind of want to get into cooking. My financial situation has shifted for the better lately that I could afford to pitch an extra $50/month towards ingredients, beyond my normal grocery budget. Plus it's something i can do after work without having to actually go places, but it's still a useful social/life skill.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Guys are their own worst enemy online. Seriously.

Here's a recent opener that a guy tried on my friend on OKC:

"Hi there, I am a 27 yr old beta male. I am looking for a dominant girl who will use me. Cleaning your place etc. (While being dressed as a french maid) Would you be interested in having an errand slave you can use to your advantage?​"

Here's another one:

Hi there I'm not clever...but I know you're so pretty! ​K that was lame as shit lol​
Monday - 10:11am

It was super lame.

Yea...​How's your day going tho? haha
​
Yesterday - 2:15pm

Hey ​Let's go out today ​

Yesterday - 10:31pm

No

Why so mean​
Who you think you are huh ​

Today - 12:28am
jk lol reply me ​

Girl's responses in bold. Like... come on.

And here's another one:

Tuesday - 7:38am

Hello, what's up? How are you and how's your day going? Lovely photos you got there . Would like to be a friend
​Seeing your profile makes every man think of marriage .

I love your hair. You have a princess hair​

Yesterday - 6:03am

You there? Busy??​

Yikes.

Messages like this are uncomfortably frequent:

hey can we to talk a little if please

​can you answer me ​

There's such a sense of entitlement to a lot of guys

 

[Host Samurai]

I've noticed that most women my age are much more difficult to pull. Sometimes they're very flirtatious and fun and others are pretty conservative. When it comes to women in their 40's, you can legit say anything you want to them and they eat it all up. I shit you not, but some of these women send me nudes right when we exchange numbers, like the 1st message is a nude pic.

 

[Krauser Kat]

Guys are their own worst enemy online. Seriously.
Here's a recent opener that a guy tried on my friend on OKC:
"Hi there, I am a 27 yr old beta male. I am looking for a dominant girl who will use me. Cleaning your place etc. (While being dressed as a french maid) Would you be interested in having an errand slave you can use to your advantage?​"
Here's another one:
Girl's responses in bold. Like... come on.
And here's another one:
Yikes.
Messages like this are uncomfortably frequent:
There's such a sense of entitlement to a lot of guys

AMEN.

Reading peoples profiles and reading there pictures for context is key.
Reading a profile is like being able to listen to someone. Actually listen and understand it. Ask things about their life or events depicted.

Be interested in them as people not as fuck toys.

 

[Horse Detective]

Women that play video games are dime a dozen in Chicago, but I think that is a weird criteria for an online dating site.

 

[jmdajr]

What about 3?