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[Manmademan]

agreed. mind blown that it happened, but sony actually managed to catch ms completely off-guard in february. it's the only thing that sorta 'explains' everything since...

that doesn't make sense either. this is the longest generation in history. Nintendo launched LAST year. there's no way MS thought sony was going to wait another year and give nintendo a year and a half to two years to itself on the market.

remember, no one thought the wiiU was going to flop as badly as it has.

 

[PTG]

The reason MS is skipping certain countries is pretty well documented:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FFRoYhTJQQ

 

[spectre_assassin]

Can you tell me which way the water flows in your toilet?

Down! lol

 

[Finalizer]

remember, no one thought the wiiU was going to flop as badly as it has.

I dunno. TBH I'd wonder if MS & Sony had internal metrics that pointed to the Wii U being the disaster it wound up being anyway. They might've realized it was DOA as it was and didn't really care what Nintendo was doing.

That said, it does seem surprising that MS wouldn't have gathered enough info on Sony to realize they were gearing up for 2013. But then a lot of what MS was doing has handily pointed to them being generally oblivious in a few regards (how 'bout them DRM rumors? Betcha didn't expect to get grilled on that immediately after the console reveal, 'specially after the Orth incident, huh...), so it's not hard to imagine that perhaps they figured they could stay on-course for 2014 to begin with, until Sony had that reveal back in Feb.

I remember seeing a couple people mention that before the PS4 reveal, there were apparently rumors of them being in a bit of a mess? I wasn't following the consoles back then, so kinda curious what that was all about, and how prevalent the mindset was.

 

[Ubiquitar]

What's really funny is Sony's Voice recognition library could handle 20 languages... since 2009....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TaUsSy-f0Y

Thanks for the good laugh.

 

[pieman]

Is it necessarily a problem with the voice recognition but more legal issues with a listening microphone that other posters have mentioned? We will probably never know.

 

[KurowaSan]

Nope, you need to set-up your console with the country you're in or you won't be able to use some features. in your example the Irish user setting UK as a fake country, he will need a British payment card and will see prices in pounds instead of Euro.

As a migrant I am hugely disappointed in this lock. It's something trivial to implement (liberating locales) and a real problem when it's not. Say I'm a British working in Italy. I will want to set my xbox to UK in order to use it in my language, but then I won't be able to use the online store because I will need to use my British bank account instead of the one receiving money, the Italian one. Then I will want to watch some videos. the UK marketplace will show me British stuff but I won't be able to access it because it will likely be geoblocked. And if I want to look at the local unblocked Italian stuff I will have to change my locale to Italian, lose voice control and have the whole interface in Italian.

Not even going this far, in the US many people speak spanish at home and are likely to be fluent in both spanish and english. They will have to choose one language and get stuck with it. Choose one locale, get stuck with it (or delve into menus everytime you ant to access something in one language or the other). Same goes for Canada and Quebec. The association 1 country = 1 language has never been true.

Nintendo had the same problem with the 3DS: the console only offers videos from the country it was set up with, and this content is geoblocked because distribution rights. When in a foreign country you can't access local videos (not in the menu) nor home videos (geoblocked). Being a migrant I raised the issue to customer support, which told me it was unfortunate but I was such a special case they wouldn't bother modify their system for me. Guess when it was solved? The following summer, when presumably the execs from NoE and their family went on vacation in southern France or on the coasts of Spain and their kids would not be able to access Nintendo videos on their 3DS. Angry calls must have been made.

At least a Spanish speaker in the US can choose between English and Spanish, or French/English in Canada.
It boggles my mind that the Xbox One is gonna be the first electronic device that I know of where I cannot select a language of my choosing and still be able to use the rest of the services it offers like anyone else in my country. I don't wanna talk to thing, I just want it to display text, for Christ's sake.

Region locking languages... that's a first...

 

[neorej]

They just can't stop digging that hole, can they?

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

Nope, you need to set-up your console with the country you're in or you won't be able to use some features. in your example the Irish user setting UK as a fake country, he will need a British payment card and will see prices in pounds instead of Euro.

The only feature you may can't use is credit card,but you can always use pre-paid card to solve the problem

Why i use "may" is because Albert Penello can't simply tell you "hey why don't just use fake address?",it's hard to say will MS check people's ip that strict or not(since all digital games&dlc are region+ip free now)

 

[3rdamention]

that doesn't make sense either. this is the longest generation in history. Nintendo launched LAST year. there's no way MS thought sony was going to wait another year and give nintendo a year and a half to two years to itself on the market.

remember, no one thought the wiiU was going to flop as badly as it has.

Maybe they did catch MS off guard? Sony had Pupeteer, Beyond 2 Souls, GTA, Gran Turismo hitting late this year. Maybe they thought earlier in the year that there was no way they would launch a new system with big titles in the works. You know MS would have ways to find out some games the competition is working on.

 

[Skeff]

The only feature you may can't use is credit card,but you can always use pre-paid card to solve the problem

And potentially the media features.

 

[cormack12]

To be honest, if you were Microsoft and knew that in the coming months GTA V would be launching, and your #1 competitor was also releasing Gran Turismo and Beyond:Two Souls (not to mention BF4 and CoD etc.), it wuold be reasonable to expect a March '14 launch I think.

Having said that, it seems a bit daft as developers need to shoot for some sort of release date and would have known in advance.

 

[Theonik]

The only feature you may can't use is credit card,but you can always use pre-paid card to solve the problem

Why i use "may" is because Albert Penello can't simply tell you "hey why don't just use fake address?",it's hard to say will MS check people's ip that strict or not(since all digital games&dlc are region+ip free now)

Actually they said that some digital content/games will still check your IP. And I expect for practical reasons purchsing DLC will only work for identical versions of games. (if you live in the UK and buy US games you won't be able to buy DLC from the UK store and have it work on your US game)
As for not using credit cards/debit cards that's a solution, but it's very inconvenient, so I can understand why some people would mind having to go through all those hoops just so they can speak to their Xbox in English.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

Actually they said that some digital content/games will still check your IP. And I expect for practical reasons purchsing DLC will only work for identical versions of games. (if you live in the UK and buy US games you won't be able to buy DLC from the UK store and have it work on your US game)
As for not using credit cards/debit cards that's a solution, but it's very inconvenient, so I can understand why some people would mind having to go through all those hoops just so they can speak to their Xbox in English.

According to Albert,only some apps(contents)

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=76585635&highlight=#post76585635

Btw how is that inconvenient since if you have credit card,you can go amazon to buy pre-paid cards even you're not living in US/europe etc,but it's hard to say will MS check people's ip and address that strict yet(if you try to use fake address for your credit card to buy something)

 

[Skeff]

According to Albert,only some apps(contents)

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=76585635&highlight=#post76585635

Well some DLC will still "kind of" be region locked, just not based on your console, There's a reasonable likelihood that Different regions will have slightly different games and DLC may have to be the correct DLC to work, so whilst not Region locked by your country it could be region locked by your original game purchase, This isn't a bad thing neccesarily and will likely be on both consoles. I'm sure DLC for the majority of games though will not rely on which version of the game you own, however at times there will be no choice, e.g. cut versions in Australia and languages only available in certain game releases etc.

 

[jcm]

Nope, you need to set-up your console with the country you're in or you won't be able to use some features. in your example the Irish user setting UK as a fake country, he will need a British payment card and will see prices in pounds instead of Euro.

As a migrant I am hugely disappointed in this lock. It's something trivial to implement (liberating locales) and a real problem when it's not. Say I'm a British working in Italy. I will want to set my xbox to UK in order to use it in my language, but then I won't be able to use the online store because I will need to use my British bank account instead of the one receiving money, the Italian one. Then I will want to watch some videos. the UK marketplace will show me British stuff but I won't be able to access it because it will likely be geoblocked. And if I want to look at the local unblocked Italian stuff I will have to change my locale to Italian, lose voice control and have the whole interface in Italian.

Not even going this far, in the US many people speak spanish at home and are likely to be fluent in both spanish and english. They will have to choose one language and get stuck with it. Choose one locale, get stuck with it (or delve into menus everytime you ant to access something in one language or the other). Same goes for Canada and Quebec. The association 1 country = 1 language has never been true.

Nintendo had the same problem with the 3DS: the console only offers videos from the country it was set up with, and this content is geoblocked because distribution rights. When in a foreign country you can't access local videos (not in the menu) nor home videos (geoblocked). Being a migrant I raised the issue to customer support, which told me it was unfortunate but I was such a special case they wouldn't bother modify their system for me. Guess when it was solved? The following summer, when presumably the execs from NoE and their family went on vacation in southern France or on the coasts of Spain and their kids would not be able to access Nintendo videos on their 3DS. Angry calls must have been made.

Windows and .NET support an es-US locale, so it seems likely that Kinect will, too.

Edit: I agree with your larger point, though. The idea that you cannot choose any supported language in any given region is really weird.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

Well some DLC will still "kind of" be region locked, just not based on your console, There's a reasonable likelihood that Different regions will have slightly different games and DLC may have to be the correct DLC to work, so whilst not Region locked by your country it could be region locked by your original game purchase, This isn't a bad thing neccesarily and will likely be on both consoles. I'm sure DLC for the majority of games though will not rely on which version of the game you own, however at times there will be no choice, e.g. cut versions in Australia and languages only available in certain game releases etc.

Oh yeah,but it's okay,no one wanna import Australia or German version

 

[Skeff]

Oh yeah,but it's okay,no one wanna import Australia or German version

Oh yea not going to be a big deal, just europeans will have to buy european DLC not US if they want french language or something, no biggie, to be expected.

 

[Robertto]

haha this is actually so pathetic!! they want us to pay for a peripheral that wont even work for us!!?

i was actually starting to lean towards XB1 because in aus the price difference is 599 to 549, but this is too much.

i actually cant believe their cramming kinect down everyone's thoats when they wont even have it working for everyone.

 

[Mindwipe]

According to Albert,only some apps(contents)

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=76585635&highlight=#post76585635

Btw how is that inconvenient since if you have credit card,you can go amazon to buy pre-paid cards even you're not living in US/europe etc,but it's hard to say will MS check people's ip and address that strict yet(if you try to use fake address for your credit card to buy something)

Hah, if MS are building it that way they're going to have to unpick it later on, as you cannot get music licensing on that basis.

 

[Theonik]

Oh yeah,but it's okay,no one wanna import Australia or German version

What if they live in Australia...

Btw how is that inconvenient since if you have credit card,you can go amazon to buy pre-paid cards even you're not living in US/europe etc,but it's hard to say will MS check people's ip and address that strict yet(if you try to use fake address for your credit card to buy something)

With prepaid cards, you usually have to wait for getting them, then you have to punch them in. It's a hassle. You are also limited to fixed funding amounts and always left with an extra. I don't want to buy a $10 card to buy a $5 piece of DLC for example. Other systems let you buy items with exact change if you use a card and the funding amount is higher than a set minimum on the other hand. Something that is impossible with cards.

 

[Arkham]

They can see Titanfall, they just can't SAY Titanfall.

Player: "Xbox, Spielen Titan Herbst!"

Xbox: "... '

Player: "Xbox, Spielen Titan Herbst!!! Mein Gott. "

Xbox: "Have you spoken 'Titanfall' ?"

 

[JDSN]

The reason MS is skipping certain countries is pretty well documented:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FFRoYhTJQQ

No idea that a former Eurogamer writer was a comedian.

 

[Zemm]

This console has RROD v2.0 written all over it.

 

[kaching]

Yep every week has been nothing but downgrades, that's fair. /s

Are we moving the goalposts on the conversation now? Because I thought we were talking about Kinect - that's what I was referencing. We've gone from a launch strategy that was supposed to make Kinect a centerpiece of the XBO experience to having no significant packaged software at launch or in the first few months, the Kinect hardware is no longer required but still a forced purchase and now OS level support for basic voice commands will be very spotty at launch, as well as no official support for Japanese language which Kinect 1.0 supported.

I'm sorry you took my "whole world" comment literally, but it's not a strawman argument.

I can't take it literally but you want to defend it anyway? That's cute. I think if we want to hand out benefit of the doubt, then you could spot me some for not taking the comment completely literally in the first place, but just finding it excessively hyperbolic in reference to the discussion at hand. The general thrust of this conversation isn't about demanding unrealistic expectations from MS but rather trying to figure out what they're actually capable of since they keep shifting the goalposts.

 

[RiffRaff]

BigDug13 – the FAQ is correct, for launch. When you choose a language for your console, you will be offered the list of countries it is supported in. Using your example, if you choose Italy as your language, you only get Italian. We will continue to add more supported combinations over time. For example in Canada we will support English and French. The opportunity to “mix-and-match” languages and countries is something we’re looking to do post-launch.

Again, sorry for all the confusion on this. Look for a more detailed explanation coming. Will most likely come through Xbox Wire, or Xbox.com.

Why? WHY?
Why i can't simply choose the language i want instead of the "official" one of my country?

I can't belive it's something hard to do ffs.

 

[Arkham]

Pardon my ignorance, but has it even been confirmed yet that the voice recognition features will work offline? Or will the more advanced aspects rely on server communication a la Siri, S Voice, etc? I know offline libraries will work for basic stuff, but I haven't heard a definite answer about Xbox's voice recog.

 

[Theonik]

Pardon my ignorance, but has it even been confirmed yet that the voice recognition features will work offline? Or will the more advanced aspects rely on server communication a la Siri, S Voice, etc? I know offline libraries will work for basic stuff, but I haven't heard a definite answer about Xbox's voice recog.

This was answered a few pages back but basically, simple commands like Xbox On etc will be supported by local libraries, whereas Online will be needed for things like library searching. (can't store files for every single thing on XBL locally)

 

[mjAUT]

Player: "Xbox, Spielen Titan Herbst!"

Xbox: "... '

Player: "Xbox, Spielen Titan Herbst!!! Mein Gott. "

Xbox: "Have you spoken 'Titanfall' ?"

You just made an Austrian laugh out loud

 

[crazygambit]

It's one thing to say the DRM thing was disastrous or that $499 is disastrous (I think so). It's another thing to claim not having 100% voice recognition in every single country is disastrous.

I do think they bungled a lot, but not this service roll out. This is normal.

I don't care what your primary console was. I don't care which company or system you like today. I don't care if Microsoft is your favorite company in the world. I don't care if you're buying 10 Xbox Ones or none at all. I don't care about you at all. All I'm responding to is to some nonsense you posted today.

I would disagree with that. A big part of the whole value proposition PR speak about a $500 box from MS has been the magic of Kinect. If that magic doesn't work in your region at launch what reason could you possibly have to go for a $100 more expensive console then?

According to MS it's the whole point of the Xbone, so if it doesn't work out of the gate in most of the world I think it's a pretty big deal.

 

[Saganator]

If only they weren't force feeding us the Kinect, the debacle they've put themselves in would be much more of an inconvenience. What a joke.

 

[OceansAndEarth]

Aren't they like the worlds biggest software company, with a near limitless supply of engineers and indian testers and tweakers?
Man, i remember voice command stuff coming out 20 years ago, and its still nowhere near cracked.

What do you mean?

 

[Arkham]

This was answered a few pages back but basically, simple commands like Xbox On etc will be supported by local libraries, whereas Online will be needed for things like library searching. (can't store files for every single thing on XBL locally)

Thanks! I read most of the thread but must've scanned right by that.

That's what I thought. Cheers.

You just made an Austrian laugh out loud

Haha, thx. I hope my translation wasn't too offensively awful. I was just thinking "WWGD" and channeled my inner Gerhardt.

 

[Theonik]

Thanks! I read most of the thread but must've scanned right by that.

That's what I thought. Cheers.

And here is the exact quote:

Some of the sophisticated voice search strings (think catalog searching for music or movies) will only work online. We can't locally store the name of every movie, actor, director, genre, etc.

 

[mjAUT]

Haha, thx. I hope my translation wasn't too offensively awful. I was just thinking "WWGD" and channeled my inner Gerhardt.

Your translation of "fall" to "Herbst" / "autumn" was just hilarious

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

What if they live in Australia...


With prepaid cards, you usually have to wait for getting them, then you have to punch them in. It's a hassle. You are also limited to fixed funding amounts and always left with an extra. I don't want to buy a $10 card to buy a $5 piece of DLC for example. Other systems let you buy items with exact change if you use a card and the funding amount is higher than a set minimum on the other hand. Something that is impossible with cards.

"What if they live in Australia..."
You know what import means right?If someone live in Australia,import means like buy a US version for them

"With prepaid cards, you usually have to wait for getting them"
Nah i don't,amazon send the online code super fast,less than 10mins for me
And no one knows you can't really use credit card or not yet,MS can't told you "it's fine,just go find some fake address",but also doesn't mean they will check it very serious

Hah, if MS are building it that way they're going to have to unpick it later on, as you cannot get music licensing on that basis.

I believe MS won't be able control TVs/musics/movies,that means it will still geoblocked as usual

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

double

 

[Theonik]

"With prepaid cards, you usually have to wait for getting them"
Nah i don't,amazon send the online code super fast,less than 10mins for me

10 minutes is still waiting. And you didn't address that prepaid cards are a lot more fiddly than just using your card on whatever platform.
Edit:

And no one knows you can't really use credit card or not yet,MS can't told you "it's fine,just go find some fake address",but also doesn't mean they will check it very serious

My bank cares... Also in this case there is no guarantee if MS will care or not but I'd be expected to give them my money before they decide to ban my account for whatever reason. Meaning it should be treated as "I can't use my card" unless MS specifies otherwise. (which they probably won't)

Edit 2: I'll also address this,

"What if they live in Australia..."
You know what import means right?If someone live in Australia,import means like buy a US version for them

But because the Australian version of the game is likely to be different for various local reasons they probably won't be able to use any Australian DLC regardless of what MS claims.

 

[Arkham]

Your translation of "fall" to "Herbst" / "autumn" was just hilarious

Ahhh! Yeah, I purposely put "Titan Fall" in the translator to get something different. I didn't check tge result though. Haha.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

10 minutes is still waiting. And you didn't address that prepaid cards are a lot more fiddly than just using your card on whatever platform.

Then what?cancel the pre-paid card so let people who doesn't have pre-paid card can't buy anything in marketplace?it need few more step then credit card but how is that inconvenient?i think apply a credit card is more inconvenient and annoying you know,always need at least past 3 months income proof.Btw why you 100% sure you really can't use credit it,not same as 360?

If your bank cares then it doesn't Xbox or any platforms issue

Then just import the US version&DLC in US marketplace,and actually,MS doesn't claim DLC have this issue(yet),we just know all games and DLC are region&ip free,for now

 

[Mindwipe]

I believe MS won't be able control TVs/musics/movies,that means it will still geoblocked as usual

There's plenty of game DLC that includes licensed music.

 

[KurowaSan]

Then what?cancel the pre-paid card so let people who doesn't have pre-paid card can't buy anything in marketplace?it need few more step then credit card but how is that inconvenient?i think apply a credit card is more inconvenient you know,always need at least past 3 months income proof.Btw why you 100% sure you really can't use credit it,not same as 360?

If your bank cares then it doesn't Xbox or any platforms issue

Then just import the US version&DLC in US marketplace,and actually,MS doesn't claim DLC have this issue(yet),we just know all games and DLC are region&ip free,for now

EU cards don't work on the US/JP marketplace, payments don't go through, neither on the 360 or the PS3, and they won't work on XBONE/PS4 either.

Do we really have to explain that having to rely on importation and prepaid cards when you could use your own credit card to buy content off the marketplace like anyone else is "inconvenient"? I mean, REALLY. No, just create a fake US account on your XBONE, another fake address on amazon.com so that you can buy prepaid cards, wait for it to arrive, enter the 16 letters code and you're good to go. You're loosing access to media features only available if you are ACTUALLY living in that country? No problem! just switch back to an account of your own country. And just because they feel like region locking language settings. Let that sink in for a moment... Language settings...

They wanted to have a "consistent experience" in one language only, so instead of dealing with the problem by actually providing translations on each marketplace, they just hide it by locking out language settings. Great job.

 

[Khaz]

So if i scream Xbox off and my competitors are playing with a surround system could that turn off thier xboxes aswell?

That's genius. I'll spot people playing xbox with their windows open and yell "Xbox Off" from the streets. Way to piss people off

Hey, shit would also happen if while watching some stand-up through xbox the comedian start randomly shouting xbox off for the laughs ^^.

 

[Liabe Brave]

In November
- We will launch in 13 geos
- 10 of those geos will support some voice features
- We support 8 languages

...NOW – the nuance to this is that some voice *features* won’t be available in all countries right away. “Xbox On”, for instance, is only available in 5 (hence the confusion on Xbox.com in the small print).

You know, I've been so busy concentrating on the nuanced caveat about some features not being supported, that I didn't notice the math in the first part. It seems three launch countries will have no voice support at all! So the launch is now:

only 13 of the originally-announced 21 countries
only 10 of which support any voice features at all
only 5 of which support "Xbox On"

I am slackjawed. I am flabbergasted. I am nonplussed. How could a corporation as big, as skilled, and as resourceful as Microsoft, with years of prep time, have ended up in this situation?!

 

[Chobel]

You know, I've been so busy concentrating on the nuanced caveat about some features not being supported, that I didn't notice the math in the first part. It seems three launch countries will have no voice support at all! So the launch is now:

only 13 of the originally-announced 21 countries
only 10 of which support any voice features at all
only 5 of which support "Xbox On"

I am slackjawed. I am flabbergasted. I am nonplussed. How could a corporation as big, as skilled, and as resourceful as Microsoft, with years of prep time, have ended up in this situation?!

I may be wrong, but I think he meant 3 countries will support full voice commands, the rest will support some of those commands.

 

[Theonik]

I may be wrong, but I think he meant 3 countries will support full voice commands, the rest will support some of those commands.

No he said:
10/13 - Voice commands, at all, this includes full or partial support.
5/10 - Full voice commands, self explanatory.
Which leaves:
5/10 - Limited voice commands, exact meaning is not as of yet defined but he did mention for example that Italy is not getting the 'Xbox On' functionality which I assume means you can only turn the X1 on with a controller if you use an Italian locale.

 

[jordan0386]

Its much harder than it looks on Youtube...

 

[Nerfon]

They better have english language option for italy region day one or i am returning it same day.

 

[Chobel]

No he said:
10/13 - Voice commands, at all, this includes full or partial support.
5/10 - Full voice commands, self explanatory.
Which leaves:
5/10 - Limited voice commands, exact meaning is not as of yet defined but he did mention for example that Italy is not getting the 'Xbox On' functionality which I assume means you can only turn the X1 on with a controller if you use an Italian locale.

That's your interpretation for the quote, It might be true. but there are other interpretations
"We will launch in 13 geos" : 13 launch countries
"10 of those geos will support some voice features" : 10 will only support some features, the rest will support all the features.
"Xbox On, for instance, is only available in 5": maybe the other countries will have an alternative, for example the french will have "Xbox demarrer".
I'm giving MS the benefit of the doubt but I could be wrong. We'll have to wait for those charts to confirm anything.

 

[tfur]

So, they changed the web page.
Swept it under the carpet, and removed the specific countries that will have it. That's even better than a chart!