Support NeoGAF

[Blader]

It's weird for Caine to say one day black actors have to earn recognition through their work, then immediately cite an example of an acclaimed black actor in an acclaimed movie that was completely looked over.

 

[B33]

this is a fine sentiment but the academy is 94% white and mostly old. making more diverse films doesn't guarantee more diverse awards when the jury pool is so homogeneous.

The Academy needs to change its policies on the recruitment of new members and the retention of existing members.

 

[Flying Toaster]

this is a fine sentiment but the academy is 94% white and mostly old. making more diverse films doesn't guarantee more diverse awards when the jury pool is so homogeneous.

Yes but having a quota to fill does not recognize good acting or directing.

Jury is one thing.

Be pissed at content or in this case lack of.

 

[SliceSabre]

Old white lady saying racist things and wanting to keep the status quo? Color me shocked.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

It's weird for Caine to say one day black actors have to earn recognition through their work, then immediately cite an example of an acclaimed black actor in an acclaimed movie that was completely looked over.

That was like when Tom Hanks said "you can't steal from Denzel" when 1) he just imitated him twice and 2) he won an Oscar for a movie where Denzel out-acted him

 

[Toxi]

Yes but having a quota to fill does not recognize good acting or directing.

Jury is one thing.

Be pissed at content or in this case lack of.

This year is a clear example of said content existing and not being recognized though.

While there certainly is a problem with diversity representation in Hollywood, it's not the only thing that keeps the Oscars from recognizing PoC in the industry.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

While we're at it, they should probably bring in some people who actually watch animated films instead of 'my kids liked it so I voted for it fuck Chinese cartoons"

 

[atr0cious]

They need to update every dictionary then

racism is the power structure that allows "others" to be held down. Prejudice and bigotry are just two sides of the same coin. Which is why whites are considered racists even when they claim not to be, because they inherently profit from our broken system which relies on institutional racism to keep the engine going.

 

[DrFurbs]

Is it actually possible no black or ethic actors were actually good enough to make the list? I mean it's an actually possibility right?

 

[Catvoca]

Everyone forgets the Asians.

Aziz Ansari's Master of None had an incredible episode exploring the Portrayal of Indian people on TV and in Films. It really made me look at the industry and be like "holy shit, people from Asia are so poorly represented in English Media"

 

[aeolist]

Yes but having a quota to fill does not recognize good acting or directing.

Jury is one thing.

Be pissed at content or in this case lack of.

the awards are already unfair thanks to the academy itself. people arguing against the minority complaints even acknowledge this.

so why would quotas be the thing that destroys any award credibility, if they're used to combat obvious discrimination?

 

[show me your skeleton]

took me until the article mentioned her age to realise why she said the shit she did.

 

[Flying Toaster]

Is it actually possible no black or ethic actors were actually good enough to make the list? I mean it's an actually possibility right?

No because that makes us prejudiced racial assholes.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Yes but having a quota to fill does not recognize good acting or directing.

Jury is one thing.

Be pissed at content or in this case lack of.

Interesting that the only people who mention quotas are the people saying "we shouldn't have quotas."

We're asking for fair treatment of POC in the industry by the Academy. There were plenty of Oscar-worthy performances this year, and last year by POCs, and yet both years the nominees were outrageously white.

No because that makes us prejudiced racial assholes.

Are you suggesting that Asian actors have only won three Oscars because there have only been three Asian actors worth winning the award across <90 years?

 

[Bubba T]

They need to update every dictionary then

Did you even read what you quoted

 

[atr0cious]

Is it actually possible no black or ethic actors were actually good enough to make the list? I mean it's an actually possibility right?

This is a dumb argument. It's also about the opportunity. Also, Ruffalo got an oscar nod for his milquetoast performance in spotlight, which hinges on some oscar bait speech he barely gives convincingly. This whole, they didn't actually deserve it nonsense needs to stop.

 

[B33]

Yes but having a quota to fill does not recognize good acting or directing.

Jury is one thing.

Be pissed at content or in this case lack of.

Blaming the lack of diversity in the nominations on the content alone doesn't account for the brilliant films and performances from 2015 that were overlooked.

Diversity needs to happen on both sides. It's not enough to change the production industry. You need to change the organizations judging the content.

 

[Lan Dong Mik]

Is it actually possible no black or ethic actors were actually good enough to make the list? I mean it's an actually possibility right?

Sure it's possible, but shit if old Sly Stallone made the cut, you can bet your ass some of the other black actors mentioned in this thread were on his level as well.

Not taking anything away from Stallone, I hope he gets an Oscar.

 

[The Faceless Master]

“be patient” is the perfect summary.

wait for us to die and pray our offspring are less racist.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I get both sides of the argument...

That makes me an asshole monster.

At the end of the day Fuck Hollywood for not promoting more movies with more diverse casts.

No because that makes us prejudiced racial assholes.

Man..you came in guns blazing. Sheesh..

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Is it actually possible no black or ethic actors were actually good enough to make the list? I mean it's an actually possibility right?

Ex Machina had Oscar Isaac dancing he deserved all of the awards

 

[Flying Toaster]

Aziz Ansari's Master of None had an incredible episode exploring the Portrayal of Indian people on TV and in Films. It really made me look at the industry and be like "holy shit, people from Asia are so poorly represented in English Media"

That episode was great and seriously sad because the industry is really that way.

 

[Jzero]

Is it actually possible no black or ethic actors were actually good enough to make the list? I mean it's an actually possibility right?

Beasts of no nation was a thing so yea there definitely was good black actors.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Man..you came in guns blazing. Sheesh..

But I mean, what if it's just that POC aren't good enough actors to compete with white people? Maybe racism doesn't actually exist in Hollywood, and the powers that be were just picking the best actors, directors, and writers who coincidentally were white?

 

[PBY]

Yes but having a quota to fill does not recognize good acting or directing.

Jury is one thing.

Be pissed at content or in this case lack of.

No because that makes us prejudiced racial assholes.

Is this sarcasm?

 

[B33]

Is it actually possible no black or ethic actors were actually good enough to make the list? I mean it's an actually possibility right?

No.

But I mean, what if it's just that POC aren't good enough actors to compete with white people? Maybe racism doesn't actually exist in Hollywood, and the powers that be were just picking the best actors, directors, and writers who coincidentally were white?

No.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

took me until the article mentioned her age to realise why she said the shit she did.

Nope.
Age may be factor but not everyone "old" is dumb like her.

 

[Liljagare]

Everyone forgets the Asians.

And seriously, the natives.

 

[Slayven]

Is it actually possible no black or ethic actors were actually good enough to make the list? I mean it's an actually possibility right?

This silly and sad argument comes up every year at every award show where minorities get passed over.

 

[A Link to the Past]

No.


No.

Was I not sarcastic enough?

 

[kiguel182]

Is like they can't even see the context of the events.

 

[aeolist]

Is it actually possible no black or ethic actors were actually good enough to make the list? I mean it's an actually possibility right?

is it possible that in the last 40 years only 3 black actors have turned in winning performances? i guess, but that looks pretty unlikely to me.

the stats are even worse for black actresses (1 winner ever).

we're talking about trends, it's harder to pin things down with exactitude when you're talking about one year but looking at a long enough time span it's pretty obvious that the awards have a huge problem with racism.

 

[Siegcram]

They need to update every dictionary then

they should update dictionaries that list casteism and chauvinism as synonyms for racism

 

[JTripper]

Didn't a black director win best director and picture a couple years ago and people were angry about the same thing as they are this year?

I understand that there is a severe lack of diversity in Hollywood and we want to address it, but wouldnt it be worse if a black actor was nominated simply because he's black and the category needed more diversity, and not because of the actor's performance?

I'm not saying they aren't any black actors or directors who don't deserve a nomination this year, as we have clearly pointed out here, but it blows my mind how most of the time people complain how award shows and ceremonies essentially mean nothing, yet when someone isn't recognized because they feel the system is racist, these things suddenly mean the world.

That said, Coogler was truly snubbed.

 

[B33]

Was I not sarcastic enough?

Whoops! I'm sorry! I totally missed the sarcastic tone.

 

[JimmyRustler]

Everyone forgets the Asians.

Aren't we going a bit too far now? Hasn't this something to do with US demographics? I mean, otherwise I don't see why no one is complaining why Japanese, Indian or Chinese cinema doesn't feature more diverse casts. IIRC Chinese and Indian cinema are even bigger than Hollywood at this point.

 

[Flying Toaster]

Man..you came in guns blazing. Sheesh..

It was sarcasm.

I cannot even begin to express how disgusted I am with inequality in the so called free world.

 

[aeolist]

i mean, look at this: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/List_of_black_Academy_Award_winners_and_nominees

the oscars are racist. full stop. arguing otherwise just makes you look stupid or disingenuous.

edit: sorry flying toaster, didn't catch the irony there

 

[A Link to the Past]

Didn't a black director win best director and picture a couple years ago and people were angry about the same thing as they are this year?

I understand that there is a severe lack of diversity in Hollywood and we want to address it, but wouldnt it be worse if a black actor was nominated simply because he's black and the category needed more diversity, and not because of the actor's performance?

I'm not saying they aren't any black actors or directors who don't deserve a nomination this year, as we have clearly pointed out here, but it blows my mind how most of the time people complain how award shows and ceremonies essentially mean nothing, yet when someone isn't recognized because they feel the system is racist, these things suddenly mean the world.

That said, Coogler was truly snubbed.

At what point did anyone suggest "nominate a black person because they're black"? We're asking for the Oscars to not be determined by a 96% white voting panel with a median age of 65.

 

[tbm24]

Really drives me nuts how people can say with a straight face that people are more or less accepted nowadays. I just don't understand being so blind to it.

 

[PBY]

Didn't a black director win best director and picture a couple years ago and people were angry about the same thing as they are this year?

I understand that there is a severe lack of diversity in Hollywood and we want to address it, but wouldnt it be worse if a black actor was nominated simply because he's black and the category needed more diversity, and not because of the actor's performance?

I'm not saying they aren't any black actors or directors who don't deserve a nomination this year, as we have clearly pointed out here, but it blows my mind how most of the time people complain how award shows and ceremonies essentially mean nothing, yet when someone isn't recognized because they feel the system is racist, these things suddenly mean the world.

That said, Coogler was truly snubbed.

LOL No. I hate that line of thought. First off- there is no "better" or "worse" in that kind of clear cut sense. And secondly - Fuck no. Perpetuating a racist cycle is not worse than what would amount to snubbing an actor, who you think would be more deserving.

 

[ANDS]

Time for everyone to pretend they know who Rampling is and how they really used to love her, etc. etc.

People like her hate all diversity, because diversity inherently harms the most powerful group.

People like her? You know her based on a single quote? Seriously? These people are getting mics shoved in their faces and asked to comment on a situation so that we can continue to gin up controversy over the Oscars and now we're all Rampling experts because of it.

Nonsense.

 

[The Faceless Master]

is it possible that #RIQL

 

[Moff]

racism != bigotry/prejudice

actually yes, racism is a part of bigotry and prejudice
bigotry and prejudice based on race, nationality, color of skin and even religion is defined as racism

bigotry and prejudice based on gender/sex is sexism, it really isn't that hard to understand.

what some people confuse is racism and institutional racism. there is no institutional racism against white people, that is true, and of course it's not wrong to say that institutional racism is the actual or at least the biggest problem.

but saying non-whites can't be racist against whites is wrong and a dumb thing to say. in my experience racism is sadly something very natural and I believe everyone is a racist to a certain degree.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Is it actually possible no black or ethic actors were actually good enough to make the list? I mean it's an actually possibility right?

Benicio Del Toro
Jason Mitchell
Michael B. Jordan
Tessa Thompson
Kiki Rodriguez
Idris Elba
Abraham Atta
Samuel L. Jackson
Chiwetel Ejiofor
Oscar Isaac
Angela Bassett
Will Smith

Sure, it's a possibility.

It's also a possibility that a lot of those actors and those performances in their respective films can be (and are) dismissed out of hand by voters who just don't feel like those movies "deserve" the sort of consideration that Oscar typically gives to other, whiter movies that are more palatable to a set "Oscar Movie" standard that voters tend to pay more attention. (Read Sasha Stone's awards daily article for more on that. Fucking great read)

It's not that people are sitting at a table with a hood to their left and their arms folded, doing the Grumpy Cat, saying "fuck colored people." It's that there's a lot of old white people who aren't even going to give something like Tangerine or Straight Outta Compton much of a chance because it's not for them, and they have to work too hard to find something in the film to latch onto, so they just... won't put in that work.

Which is why you end up with quality performances summarily dismissed out-of-hand before anyone even thinks to push play on their screeners (which a lot of them never actually do).

 

[MHWilliams]

The Academy needs to change its policies on the recruitment of new members and the retention of existing members.

They're already working on it. Won't help without vastly growing the membership, because becoming an Oscar voter is lifetime appointment. As long as you don't leave, you're in forever.

Is it actually possible no black or ethic actors were actually good enough to make the list? I mean it's an actually possibility right?

Potentially, but the critics are confused as well.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/24/movies/oscars-so-white-or-oscars-so-dumb-discuss.html?_r=0

In the case of both &#8220;Creed&#8221; and &#8220;Compton,&#8221; I just don&#8217;t think the campaigns were there for these movies. Just as I don&#8217;t think they were there for &#8220;Selma&#8221; the previous year. And as nauseating as that sort of thing can be, that&#8217;s how these things work: positioning, narratives, spinning, hype, overexposure, wanton whoring. So some of this is a matter of there not being enough movies in the pool. Some of it is the studios&#8217; misunderstanding the worth of the movies they have. It strains credibility that &#8220;Creed&#8221; wouldn&#8217;t be a film the Academy would go for.

But I don&#8217;t want to let the Academy and its members off the hook. Or rather, I want to broaden the indictment beyond the specific complaints that they ignored Mr. Elba, &#8220;Creed,&#8221; &#8220;Straight Outta Compton&#8221; and Will Smith&#8217;s excellent Nigerian accent in &#8220;Concussion.&#8221; It&#8217;s not as if the 6,000 Academy members exercised the singular intention to ignore those contenders. The nominations are a numbers game, and in each case you can offer a nonracial explanation for the oversight. Other movies and actors just had a few more votes. &#8220;Beasts of No Nation&#8221; came from Netflix, which is a scary interloper in the hidebound, turf-protective world of the studios. The violence may have put off some voters. &#8220;Creed&#8221; did not get much of a campaign from Warner Bros., which may have figured that the seventh movie in a 40-year-old franchise with a mixed track record wasn&#8217;t exactly Oscar bait. &#8220;Concussion&#8221; is terrible. &#8220;Straight Outta Compton&#8221; &#8230;

Oh, I never thought &#8220;Straight Outta Compton&#8221; had a real shot for a best picture nod, even with the Academy&#8217;s recent &#8212; and laudable &#8212; attempts to diversify its membership. There&#8217;s just too much cussing, for starters, and the average age of the 94 percent white membership is 62 (as of 2012). And I&#8217;m guessing that when these dudes (77 percent) were teenagers, they were listening to the Beach Boys (nothing wrong with that!), whereas a new Academy member like Ava DuVernay knew exactly who Dr. Dre and N.W.A were when she was growing up around Compton. My point being that the lived, embodied experiences of the membership greatly matter and that sometimes even the most well-intentioned white people just don&#8217;t see the racism and sexism in front of them.

Confused about some of those terms? Oscar campaigning is a thing.

https://stephenfollows.com/much-hollywood-campaigns-oscar-cost/

• Oscar voters are 94% white, 77% male and have a median age of 62.
• 56% of &#8216;Best Picture&#8217; nominees were released in either November or December.
• The cost of a &#8216;Best Picture&#8217; winning Oscar campaign is around $10 million
• Half of all the money spent on Oscar campaigns will go on advertising
• A page 1 advert in The Hollywood Reporter during Oscar season costs $72,000.
• Crash (2005) spent $250,000 on DVD screeners
• PR consultants are paid $10k-$15k, plus bonuses of $20k per nomination / win.
• It costs around $3,500 to prepare a Hollywood actress for the red carpet
• Oscar nominated films earn average of $12.7m more than films not nominated
• A &#8216;Best Picture&#8217; Oscar win is worth $3 million in increased box office gross
• A Golden Globe win is worth $14.2 million
• The non-financial benefits to studios of an Oscar &#8216;Best Picture&#8217; are worth $7m
• Best Actor winners can expect a $3.9m salary increase
• It&#8217;s just $500k for Best Actress winners
• It is possible to predict the Oscar winners with a success rate of 77% for Picture, 93% for Director, 77% for Actor, and 77% for Actress

https://wallethub.com/blog/economics-of-oscar-season/2124/

&#8220;Oscar marketing budgets run from a few hundred thousand to a few million,&#8221; he says. &#8220;The really big costs are in tailoring the film towards the Oscars in terms of its genre conventions, release date, etc.&#8221;

In other words, studios and producers have the Academy in mind from the earliest stages of strategic planning and development, producing scripts and scheduling release dates that will resonate with Oscar voters. History has shown that they prefer dramas, especially those that touch on compelling social issues, to comedies and are the personification of the recency effect.

Merit indeed.

Why do the Oscars matter? It's not just the award. Hollywood cares about the Oscars. Oscar nominations and wins make careers. From the link above:

&#8220;The stars that get nominated, or get the Oscar, benefit most when they're someone like Jennifer Lawrence, an unknown quantity who is suddenly A-list by virtue of Oscar's imprimatur,&#8221; Menne said. &#8220;Their salaries will double. That's why, in fact, these stars often spend out of pocket for an Oscar. Their publicist's salary will double during Oscar season.&#8221;

 

[Gordon Shumway]

It was sarcasm.

I cannot even begin to express how disgusted I am with inequality in the so called free world.

 

[Tagyhag]

I love how everyone seems to forget about the Hispanics and Asians.

 

[kiguel182]

Even if no black actor deserved a nomination (which isn't true) it would still be telling since obviously there are black actors just as a good as white ones.

This type of discrepancy comes from a system that is racially biased.

 

[APF]

Yeah it would be horrible if someone got an oscar nom for some arbitrary reason.