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[Goldrusher]

In the same video, Pachter also says:

"I would like to thank NeoGAF for their continued support and attention to my ramblings.
I wouldn't be here without you guys."

 

[Rad-]

Subscription deal sounds pretty bad unless it includes Live and PS+ or similar.

 

[GavinGT]

What? They've gone through two atrocious launches in a row with the Vita and PS3. Releasing another overpowered and overpriced console would kill them more than a cheap ass underpowered device.

The problem with Vita was they misread the market. The problem with PS3 was they shot for the moon, techwise. They need a middle-of-the-road console that still stands a chance to profit.

 

[SolarPowered]

What? They've gone through two atrocious launches in a row with the Vita and PS3. Releasing another overpowered and overpriced console would kill them more than a cheap ass underpowered device.

Sony wouldn't survive more than a couple of years on the market with a machine like that. They don't have the first party software.

 

[AOC83]

What? They've gone through two atrocious launches in a row with the Vita and PS3. Releasing another overpowered and overpriced console would kill them more than a cheap ass underpowered device.

I´m not expecting them to release a 600 € console again. But it has to be powerful, otherwise MS is going to obliterate them. They don´t have the gimmick and they don´t have the software to pull off a Wii. This would end in a total desaster.

 

[Mithos]

The subscription plan is probably the smartest way to get around the machine's costs...which means everyone living outside of "big" countries is going to get fucked in the ass.

If every single cent of that subscription is benefiting the subscriber I see no issue with subscription, if not and every single cent is benefited Sony or MS I can't understand people falling for it.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Is there any evidence that the $99 360 has slowed down sales decline at all? It's an interesting idea, but it doesn't seem to be supported as a good idea from the results so far.

 

[Muchi Muchi Pink]

I haven't seen a single rumor that would lead one to believe that these consoles will be "beasts".

Exactly.

 

[mr_toa]

How does this subscription model work? Will I have a contract for a minimum fixed term subscription to PlayStation Plus?

Is certainly be within the realm of the possible. A gold subscription will most likely be included in the Xbox plan.

 

[Chuck Norris]

What? They've gone through two atrocious launches in a row with the Vita and PS3. Releasing another overpowered and overpriced console would kill them more than a cheap ass underpowered device.

Yeah releasing a system with no competitive advantage sounds like a great strategy

And Sony is far from going keeling over. One of the most annoying myths going around lately.

 

[Takao]

I'm telling you man, Sony will pull a Nintendo next-gen and release a Wii.

PS3's problems were insane costs relating to Cell, and Blu-Ray. Sony's next console most likely will be safer in terms of R&D (no Cell, no Blu-Ray adoption burden), but not Wii safe.

 

[GavinGT]

Is there any evidence that the $99 360 has slowed down sales decline at all? It's an interesting idea, but it doesn't seem to be supported as a good idea from the results so far.

I don't see how it could hurt. And more people would bite when they realize they can't afford a $400 console at launch.

 

[no angel]

How does the finance deal on the 360 currently work, are you signing into a live subscription for x amount of months? If that's the case I can see the subsidy model doing really well, it's not different to a contract for a mobile phone and would be a really attractive proposition to many purchasers. Depending on the retailers that offer this type of deal could also open up competition and better deals, you already see different companies giving away free gifts with mobiles, TVs etc, why not games a peripherals to encourage you to sign up with one retailer over another?

 

[Shion]

What? They've gone through two atrocious launches in a row with the Vita and PS3. Releasing another overpowered and overpriced console would kill them more than a cheap ass underpowered device.

This would make 3rd parties unhappy.

Of all companies, Sony is the last who would want anything like that to happen.

 

[thehypocrite]

Sounds logical, these devices will also provide a gateway for content consumption (music/movies/games) thus they'll try to have multiple options to lower the barrier to get them.

 

[AOC83]

The problem with Vita was they misread the market. The problem with PS3 was they shot for the moon, techwise. They need a middle-of-the-road console that still stands a chance to profit.

Yeah they shot for the multimedia moon with blu ray and cell. The raw power was only slightly above the 360 although the console released one year after the 360.

We won´t have a situation like this again next year.

 

[Clear]

How does this subscription model work? Will I have a contract for a minimum fixed term subscription to PlayStation Plus?

Yep. Plus is tailor-made for this, as it accumulates in "value" the longer the sub lasts making it a harder decision to terminate it as time goes buy. Not losing 2 years worth of contracted "programming" would be one hell of a selling point for continuing to sub.

 

[AzaK]

I agree with Pachter on the subscription idea but not quite on the price. Next box will do 1 major thing different - no hard drive in the box for any sku . Instead , well see solid state media like what is currently in many apple products. Probably a 16 GB model and a 32 or 64 GB model. Use a slim sized 360 drive if you want more space (perhaps a 1 TB HDD available seperatly ). Thanks to chopping out this expensive component I think you could see both a 400$ model and a 600$ model. Or you could buy them cellphone style for 199 and 299$ with a 3 year Xbox live + contract.

Exactly. They will both cut costs here and there to make up their margins without sacrificing things too much from a marketting and competitive perspective. Essentially they may more along the lines of what Nintendo did and optimise their BOM, passing costs like HDD on to the consumer.

And as you said, they don't have an expensive controller.

 

[GavinGT]

And Sony is far from going keeling over. One of the most annoying myths going around lately.

They're in a really bad spot. They can keep themselves going for a while at this rate, but the longer this goes on the harder it becomes to claw back.

 

[Reiko]

I haven't seen a single rumor that would lead one to believe that these consoles will be "beasts".

Except the rumor of both consoles running Battlefield 4 in 60fps with 64 players of course.

 

[Chuck Norris]

Sony releasing an underpowered console without a hook would be like releasing a GameCube. And we know how that ended.

No developer has hinted at something truly unique from that perspective, unlike with Wii where we had a lot of early hints about a totally new take on games. So that leaves the other alternative of a powerful console. There is no sitting on the fence in this market.

 

[KKRT00]

Dev Kits are - 8GB-16GB RAM, AMD 7970 equivalent GPU, 3.8GHz APU (combined CPU+GPGPU). Seems pretty bloody beastly to me.

6gb in final spec would be awesome, but i would prefer 4gb DDR 5 instead, i think. I dont believe that it will 7970, 7870 would be more real though and still be quite decent, but not a monster.
AMD APU is weird and crappy choice for a console, i would prefer 6 cores and 12 threads instead, but if GPU in this APU would be quite 'strong' and it would be optimized well for crossfire, it could has really nice potential for additional GPGPU processing, that could be used in clever ways, like CELL was.

 

[Rad-]

Sony releasing an underpowered console without a hook would be like releasing a GameCube. And we know how that ended.

No developer has hinted at something truly unique from that perspective, unlike with Wii where we had a lot of early hints about a totally new take on games. So that leaves the other alternative of a powerful console. There is no sitting on the fence in this market.

Wasn't Gamecube very profitable for Nintendo?

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

They're in a really bad spot. They can keep themselves going for a while at this rate, but the longer this goes on the harder it becomes to claw back.

They are in a bad place but if you have seen their last quarter results you would see that they improved a lot from last year.

 

[KojiKnight]

Wasn't Gamecube very profitable for Nintendo?

It was, Nintendo was very profitable that generation, way more so than microsoft.

 

[Chuck Norris]

They're in a really bad spot. They can keep themselves going for a while at this rate, but the longer this goes on the harder it becomes to claw back.

Of course, but the whole industry in Japan is suffering its not just a Sony thing. And for comparison they have more cash reserves than any other Japanese company I believe.

The only way to get out of a low is providing products people want.

 

[GavinGT]

They are in a bad place but if you have seen their last quarter results you would see that they improved a lot from last year.

I'm not sure one quarter is enough to call it a comeback. An entire year of financials would be more indicative of that.

Of course, but the whole industry in Japan is suffering its not just a Sony thing. And for comparison they have more cash reserves than any other Japanese company I believe.

And more total liabilities than Microsoft, Apple, Google, and Electronic Arts combined. And a falling credit rating. And no hit product to reassure investors. And they're at a perpetual disadvantage by sheer virtue of being a Japanese company.

 

[Jibbajabbawockky]

The subscription thing seems entirely likely. What with the whole "games as a service" mantra floating around, why not simply make the actual systems like a service- you're not technically owning the game system but it'll be like a cable box or a cell phone where in order for it to work it'll need to be always online and attached to some subscription service like Live or PSN. That would seem like a decent way to lower the barrier to entry if outright buying the system is approaching $500 or so.

 

[WickedCobra03]

Base mode for PS4 and Nextbox is $400 and the deluxe model will be $500, i predict. There will be 2 sku´s and one of them will certainly be profitable.

Basically same. I think I might just wait a lot on next gen until at least 1 or both have their revisions. Just being more reliable hopefully, smaller, cooler, more storage, ect.

But there is no way that I am going to subscribe to a 4 year plan or something like a cellphone to subsidize my purchase.

 

[AOC83]

It was, Nintendo was very profitable that generation, way more so than microsoft.

Any sources for this claim? I´m pretty sure the Cube was +- 0 for Nintendo at best. What made them the money at this time was the Game Boy.

 

[Baconsammy]

If PS4 and next Xbox were each 400, I'd definitely reconsider my Xbox+WiiU strategy and go PS4-Xbox instead. The more I see of the Wii U, the less impressed I am. Could happen with the next consoles from MSFT and Sony too though.

 

[Stephen Colbert]

Base/Gimped consoles start at $399.

Premium consoles with more storage at $499.

Premium console + Kinect/Move at $599 or $99 with $15 a month 3 year subscription.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

I'd rather pay a lump sum up front and not have a sub.

 

[KojiKnight]

Any sources for this claim? I´m pretty sure the Cube was +- 0 for Nintendo at best. What made them the money at this time was the Game Boy.

That may have been, all I know is that generation they were profitable (never said it was exclusively because of the gamecube). That said, Gamecube was hardly a slouch in sales... GCN sold 21 million units, X-box 24 million. It was hardly the massive gap and failure that people seem to attribute it to.

 

[SparkTR]

Any sources for this claim? I´m pretty sure the Cube was +- 0 for Nintendo at best. What made them the money at this time was the Game Boy.

I don't have any links but I remember reading Nintendo never sold one at a loss.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

If PS4 and next Xbox were each 400, I'd definitely reconsider my Xbox+WiiU strategy and go PS4-Xbox instead. The more I see of the Wii U, the less impressed I am. Could happen with the next consoles from MSFT and Sony too though.

Well, both MS and Sony are making their consoles from available tech, so the price should not be higher for base model i would think. No more expensive state of the art BR drive and Cell for Sony. MS will add a BR cost to their pricing. I don´t think it´s that much though. Unless MS bundles Kinect with every Nextbox, which would be more expensive than $400 i think.

 

[KojiKnight]

Base/Gimped consoles start at $399.

Premium consoles with more storage at $499.

Premium console + Kinect/Move at $599 or $99 with $15 a month 3 year subscription.

They aren't likely to do three year contracts. 2 year is the sweet spot, especially because they'll have their first line of "slim" consoles out by then.

I'd say base/gimped at 399

Mid-range with Kinect/(whatever Sony replaces Move with) at 499 or $199 + 2 year $15 sub

Premium console + everything else $599 for the launch hard cores who'll likely spend that much no matter what anyways.

(edit) Oh! I figured it out, Sony's move replacement will be a BC compatible PS4 with a built in Cell.

 

[troushers]

Don't agree that it would harm Sony to release a less powerful console. They would ensure Wii U / PS4 combo would be lead platforms for developing, meaning less resources devoted to getting the best out of MS hardware. They could come in significantly cheaper than XBox, and ultimately Wii U without the pad.

I don't think it would happen, but I don't think its a crazy idea either.

 

[Curufinwe]

Base mode for PS4 and Nextbox is $400 and the deluxe model will be $500, i predict. There will be 2 sku´s and one of them will certainly be profitable.

That's what I see happening.

 

[AOC83]

Don't agree that it would harm Sony to release a less powerful console. They would ensure Wii U / PS4 combo would be lead platforms for developing, meaning less resources devoted to getting the best out of MS hardware. They could come in significantly cheaper than XBox, and ultimately Wii U without the pad.

I don't think it would happen, but I don't think its a crazy idea either.

The PS4 would have absolutely no selling point with hardware close to the WiiU.

 

[KojiKnight]

The PS4 would have absolutely no selling point with hardware close to the WiiU.

Because no one plays God of War or Uncharted

 

[Plinko]

Honestly, the subscription model for a game console is a ridiculous concept.

How have the 360s with the subscription model sold?

 

[lordfroakie]

I'd rather pay a lump sum up front and not have a sub.

Same here. I dont see myself paying a monthly or yearly fee for console gaming.

 

[Durante]

Don't agree that it would harm Sony to release a less powerful console. They would ensure Wii U / PS4 combo would be lead platforms for developing, meaning less resources devoted to getting the best out of MS hardware.

The only thing that would accomplish is handing the whole core market to MS.

 

[AOC83]

Because no one plays God of War or Uncharted

Huge part of their success are the visuals.

 

[KojiKnight]

Honestly, the subscription model for a game console is a ridiculous concept.

How have the 360s with the subscription model sold?

I could see it working really well, especially for Nintendo which is rumored to be in talks with getting deals/subscription models through cable companies.

 

[Concept17]

In the same video, Pachter also says:

"I would like to thank NeoGAF for their continued support and attention to my ramblings.
I wouldn't be here without you guys."

Good on him. Despite some of his crazy ramblings, seems like a pretty cool guy.

 

[RealDeadOne]

Pach's totally right this time. I could totally see 720 having an "Elite" model with extra features and a much higher price point, a "Basic" model with just the console, a small HDD and a controller, and a "Value" subscription-based SKU.

As for PS4, Sony is going to do the high price and high power thing again, but I think they know that they're rolling the dice and making it too much more powerful than the 720 will totally screw them, so I could see a 400-500 dollar console working.

Good on him. Despite some of his crazy ramblings, seems like a pretty cool guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TE7kXJe0PUs

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

Subscription?

DO.

NOT.

WANT.

 

[Chuck Norris]

I'm not sure one quarter is enough to call it a comeback. An entire year of financials would be more indicative of that.



And more total liabilities than Microsoft, Apple, Google, and Electronic Arts combined. And a falling credit rating. And no hit product to reassure investors. And they're at a perpetual disadvantage by sheer virtue of being a Japanese company.

Doesn't really work that way. The companies you just mentioned are all software companies. Sony dabbles in just about every thing, but are primarily a manufacturing company. It is the nature of their business, they have had high liabilities when flying high too.

You look at a similar company, Samsung, who are doing even better at the moment. Their debt is 12 billion, higher than Sonys 11 billion.

Sony have a great deal of cash on hand and a gargantuan amount of assets. They are in no trouble (of going broke)