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[Lonestar]

Wow, wasn't sure if Danny had said it was an hour long for Episode 1 (kind of thought the whole thing was going to be an hour, separated into 3 parts). This is alot to take in.

Like the shoutout very early to the other fan documentary on the subject. They've done a pretty good job, as well as another miniseries on the various in-game differences between 1.0 & 2.0 (things like location details, dungeons that have disappeared or changed size, and gameplay mechanics that have disappeared)

How often will they be releasing the parts? I'd rather wait until the whole show is done and released if it's not too long to wait.

Think the trailer mentioned P1 today, P2 on Monday and P3 on next Friday.

 

[Brandon F]

I still recall curiously entering the 2.0 beta thread on GAF during E3 years ago when ARR was almost set to release. I was expecting a total shitshow, like 1.0, and was shocked at how glowing and in love everyone here was with the revitalized effort. A complete reversal.

Impulse bought the game on PS3 when it formally launched a couple months later, keeping all the thread comments in mind. Now 4 years later and two full expansions released, it's still a game I subscribe and play.

ARR has delivered much of what I always felt a Blizzard failed to inject into WoW(grounded narrative throughline, incentivizing the world zones instead of 'consume and forget', much of the endgame trimming the fat and focusing on the good stuff).

Looking forward to watching this doc for sure. Last-gen was a rough period for Square and FF as a brand, and this effort did wonders to turn a lot of it around. Yoshi and his team deserve more credit than most should be aware.

 

[WeylandxYutani]

Fascinating watch. Even if you're not a FF or MMO fan, its an amazing story. Games rarely get a second chance

 

[Aeana]

24 minutes into this, and I can't help but think: is that localization guy's job gonna be okay when higher ups see his interview for this? I have only a sliver of understanding of Japanese corporate culture, but we've all heard stories, and you notice Japanese devs never talk so candidly about such negative things.

They've already seen it before OKing for the documentary. Yoshida hinted at it, but some things were clearly going to be cut by PR and not allowed in the documentary.

This documentary is about the failure of FF14, though. You can't talk about a failure without being negative. In the end, they come out looking like heroes.

 

[Dandy Crocodile]

Excellent! Starting this now. I really enjoyed Speaker's Network Fall and Rise of FFXIV series so having more about this game is super welcome.

 

[Cmagus]

If the CEO is ok appearing in this, I think they all got the ok to say what they say in this. Plus SE is already pretty open about FFXIV 1.0 being a failure.

I think them talking openly goes well with the tone of things going on inside the original team. They're being honest and admitting this stuff shows they've learned from their mistakes.

To say the company was arrogant and then being able to admit tgat only makes them look better. Also the translater Koji isn't going anywhere he is a huge part of the team and the NA players love him because he is pretty awesome and genuine.

 

[gillty]

I was impressed at the amount of interview content they had from the Japanese side of the team, from the teasers I had the impression that it would be weighted towards a localization perspective.

It was also good that they spent some time discussing FFXI, as it was that game that set the tone for the work that lead to 1.0, and the excitement for many of us that first played those alphas.

As always, Yoshi-P inspires.

 

[Loona]

Lots of ffxi talk
Me likey

I wish there had been more of that - both the XI's team reactions to the incoming internal competition for a FF MMO, and what issues they may have known of in XIV's early days that from their experience they'd know would be problems if left unaddressed... I wonder if that would have degenerated into criticising Hiromichi Tanaka and his decisions or something, and thus left out...

Actually, I get the feeling that a central crux, even to this day, of the FF14 PR message is telling people "we know we fucked up and learned from those mistakes." I wouldn't expect to see similar candidness about any other Square game, but for 14 it's appropriate.

This documentary is about the failure of FF14, though. You can't talk about a failure without being negative. In the end, they come out looking like heroes.

What bothers me about this is that despite all of its problems, XIV 1.x still had some good ideas, but those can no longer be experienced at all, and if it became SE policy to dismiss it as irredeemable trash not worth revisiting at all to make ARR's arrival look like more of a glorious triumph, then we might never get something like a single-player version of it that functions as a prequel to the current version of the game - the overly-detailed graphics in places would be less of an issue if it only needs to be played locally, especially as technology advances.

 

[Ragnarsson]

Absolutely fascinating watch. I bought FFXIV at release and couldn't believe how bad it all worked and how boring it was. Then I got around to play ARR and I couldn't believe how good it was, how fun it was. To this day, it was the only MMO that really captivated me and kept me engaged the whole time.

 

[Falchion]

Awesome! I know what I'm going to watch during dinner tonight. NoClip stays delivering.

 

[jett]

That intro was masterful.

Yoshida dropped the most interesting information. He partly blames FF14's failure on the creation of Crystal Tools. Funny how Squeenix learned nothing from that experience and decided to go ahead an created another utter failure of an engine, Luminous, basically for the same arrogant reasons. And of course, there's putting Nomura, a walking example of poor management, in charge of another high-budget production.

 

[phant0m]

Danny killin it again

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Is a shame they didn't get Tanaka, since all the responsability ultimately fell in his shoulders.

It would be nice to see his point of view on the whole ordeal.

 

[EnlightenedMint]

Great to hear some behind the scenes stuff at a Japanese company, don't get that everyday.

Danny doing amazing work as always.

 

[Carlius]

fucking yoshi man...i bought colelctors 1.0 day 1, and never gave up on the game. my first and only mmo that ive finished.

 

[NumberThree]

Wow, 50 minutes and it's just the first of three videos.

 

[Moonkeis]

Gawd I love FFXI, it hurts my heart just thinking about how much I love it still (but don't play anymore).

Former FFXI addict here, I feel you...I pull up the OST during work sometimes and reflect on the good times. Awesome video, especially since I played through the 14 Beta and the mess of a launch the game started as.I'm glad they turned it around.

 

[dragonlife]

Great video as always, but, man... he really needed to proofread those subtitles (I did closed-captioned). Small typos and a lack of punctuation in a lot of areas (and odd grammar). Normally I wouldn't find this to be a problem, but this is such a high-quality video series about preserving video game history, and the lackluster subtitles cheapen the whole thing by making the flow of information awkward to read. I found it more worrisome when reading the subtitles for the Japanese side--the most important ones--because it made me question just how accurate of a translation we got. I mean, I'm sure the translation is accurate, but by virtue of these wonky subs... I couldn't help but wonder.

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to the next two parts! He does great work, and I really feel the need to support him on Patreon. I'll have to look into it someday.

 

[Evil Monkey DTT]

It cannot be understated how insane the plan was that Yoshi came up with, like I can't think of a bigger underdog redemption story. Plus stormblood is the best the game has ever been, so watching just how painful 1.0 was for the team, it's honestly awe-inspiring.

24 minutes into this, and I can't help but think: is that localization guy's job gonna be okay when higher ups see his interview for this? I have only a sliver of understanding of Japanese corporate culture, but we've all heard stories, and you notice Japanese devs never talk so candidly about such negative things.

Square is no Konami, 14 is the most profitable game they have and the people interviewed have massive fan support and have become household names. Plus they have gone on record many times about their arrogance with 14 1.0, at this point I think they are proud of themselves to highlight how much they've changed for the better.

 

[jooey]

.-.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Is a shame they didn't get Tanaka, since all the responsability ultimately fell in his shoulders.

It would be nice to see his point of view on the whole ordeal.

That would be a very awkward conversation that I can't imagine Tanaka is eager to have.

 

[Splash Wave]

I've had my finger on the "start playing FFXIV" trigger for nearly two years now, and I think this documentary will push me over the edge. Is there any reason to buy the expansion in addition to the base game when I'm just starting out?

 

[Evil Monkey DTT]

I've had my finger on the "start playing FFXIV" trigger for nearly two years now, and I think this documentary will push me over the edge. Is there any reason to buy the expansion in addition to the base game when I'm just starting out?

You can get the base game and you'll hit a wall way later on. So I don't see the harm in just playing until you finish the 2.0-2.5 content and then buy Stormblood.

 

[jett]

.-.

These subtitles were some really dubious stuff. I imagine they will be getting another pass.

 

[dragonlife]

They really were.

 

[LaneDS]

Loved this and can't wait to watch the other two parts.

 

[Kaname]

Damn that brought back some nostalgia and hearing Koji's side of the story made me a bit emotional. It must really be awful too see a project you've worked hard on be bashed online and actually realize that they're mostly right

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

I've had my finger on the "start playing FFXIV" trigger for nearly two years now, and I think this documentary will push me over the edge. Is there any reason to buy the expansion in addition to the base game when I'm just starting out?

You are locked out of one race if you don't own the expansion. Aside from that, you have a ton of content at the cost of only 10 bucks or so for the base game and free month. Plenty of time to decide if it clicks for you.

 

[Famassu]

Yoshi dropping truth bombs about Square being arrogant and that arrogance leading the game to be shit.

He also, in the same breath, confirmed how Crystal Tools fucked over the development and management at the company. The two major games Square worked on during the PS3 lifetime was FFXIII and XIV, both of which suffered because of that engine.

Man. I'd like to visit a parallel universe in which Square let go of its arrogance and licensed middleware from western companies to make both of these games. How different would things have turned out.

There's not much here that weren't already said in past retrospectives closer to FFXIII & XIV1.0's release. After XIII & XIV they were pretty open about the failures with both games and Crystal Tools. Nomura even basically admitted that CT were shit and how they had to start creating their own engine for Versus XIII. That's why they started to develop Luminous so early and hired outside help to not repeat mistakes done with CTs.

And what middleware should they have used? UE3 support in Japanese was absolute shit around the time and there weren't all that many competitive alternatives for Ps360 to it when they were starting development of both games and needed to make the choice of an engine that could handle large scale AAA JRPGs.

 

[HarryDemeanor]

Just finished watching. Very insightful to hear the developer's perspective. I implore everyone to go watch the Speakers Network FFXIV videos as well if you haven't seen them if you want to know exactly why FFXIV 1.0 was so bad from a player's point of view.

 

[GuitarGuruu]

Will watch tonight, didn't even know about this!

 

[Breakfast at Noon]

For 1.0 up to 2.0: https://gamerescape.com/2013/08/21/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-white-raven/

Thank you good sir.

 

[TalonJH]

Part 1 was so good. Also, wow, I didn't exspect that 50-minute runtime.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

50 minutes of documentary and they don't even mention the game's original incarnation, codenamed Rapture. Doesn't seem comprehensive.

 

[Gattsu25]

50 minutes of documentary and they don't even mention the game's original incarnation, codenamed Rapture. Doesn't seem comprehensive.

They do, they just never use the codename. It's an ultimately unimportant detail. Instead, they use that time for extensiv--comprehensiv--almost the entire run time filled with honest developer interviews.

Not comprehensive hehe

 

[SteveO409]

Damn that was so good!!

edit: it's just awesome to see that they were fans of Ultima Online. that game was magical in gaming history

 

[LaneDS]

My only gripe, and it's a minor one, is where Danny discusses how quickly the game shifted from problematic closed beta into problematic open beta (and then onto release). Having been a part of the game's alpha, I remember being so excited to play it and then dismissing the multitude of problems with the alpha since it was just that, an alpha. They quickly moved from alpha to closed beta without having addressed practically all of those concerns. Obviously the point drilled home in part 1 of the this series is ultimately the same, but I remember how my enthusiasm so quickly shifted into worry around then (and posting about it here on GAF even).

 

[Foxxsoxx]

Can't wait to watch this after work, its gonna be great 👌

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Money.

Well.

Spent.

Danny doing good work.

Danny doin' the LORD'S WORK.

 

[Mechazawa]

Just wrapped this up.

What a specter the Crystal Tools were. Just fucking everything up.

 

[TheTux]

That intro was masterful.

Yoshida dropped the most interesting information. He partly blames FF14's failure on the creation of Crystal Tools. Funny how Squeenix learned nothing from that experience and decided to go ahead an created another utter failure of an engine, Luminous, basically for the same arrogant reasons. And of course, there's putting Nomura, a walking example of poor management, in charge of another high-budget production.

Luminous Engine is not being developed as a company-wide engine as far as we know.

 

[jett]

Luminous Engine is not being developed as a company-wide engine as far as we know.

Isn't that what it was supposed to be?

Not anymore obviously.

 

[Ferr986]

My only gripe, and it's a minor one, is where Danny discusses how quickly the game shifted from problematic closed beta into problematic open beta (and then onto release). Having been a part of the game's alpha, I remember being so excited to play it and then dismissing the multitude of problems with the alpha since it was just that, an alpha. They quickly moved from alpha to closed beta without having addressed practically all of those concerns. Obviously the point drilled home in part 1 of the this series is ultimately the same, but I remember how my enthusiasm so quickly shifted into worry around then (and posting about it here on GAF even).

Yeah I remember that. Final release was just the closed beta, same problems included. Still have nightmares with their "solution" for market place.

Yes, there was no marketplace, no search for item. No nothing. You had do enter rooms full of player's retainers and start checking their stuff to see if they had what you wanted.

 

[XTERC]

What a fantastic & fascinating documentary. Definitely recommended to those that lived through the alpha, beta & 1.0. It's also a unique story that I'm glad someone has taken the time to detail to the fans who always wondered what the hell was going on. There were a lot of rumors surrounding the original development & re-development, so it is nice to get an insider perspective.

There are some good insights into the Japanese development culture, which apply across the board. Thankfully this gen everything seems to be well in Japan, but there are some points that are brought up throughout this documentary that shed light on the difference between western and Japanese development paths at the start of the PS3/X360 gen (especially within Square Enix).

 

[Cmagus]

Yeah I remember that. Final release was just the closed beta, same problems included. Still have nightmares with their "solution" for market place.

Yes, there was no marketplace, no search for item. No nothing. You had do enter rooms full of player's retainers and start checking their stuff to see if they had what you wanted.

I still love when I hear the marketplace music in 2.0 it always brings back memories. It showed uo in Stormblood at one point. They were a mess in 1.0 but one thing I did like about the marketboards was that you could put up a stack of items and people coukd just buy however many they needed.

 

[AgentOtaku]

Finished the Part

FUCKING RIVETING!

Kudos to Danny and crew, this is phenomenal! (^____^)

 

[Retro Edge]

Is it as good as the YouTube series "The fall and rise of Final Fantasy XIV"?

 

[AuthenticM]

Is it as good as the YouTube series "The fall and rise of Final Fantasy XIV"?

It's different. Danny is interviewing the people behind the game to get to know how 1.0 ended up the way it did and what was happening behind the scenes, while the youtube series focuses more on the gameplay of the game itself.

 

[120v]

can't believe how candid everybody was about the situation. it's normal when a western game bombs a few months later everybody involved sounds off on it regardless of employment status but its kind of surreal seeing it from the other side

 

[blamite]

Really well made doc, but the Japanese subtitles are bad. Really took me out of it at a couple points and I had to rewind a few times to check if I missed something. Hope they'll get fixed/the next parts will be better about this!