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Pennello: "People just weren't ready for all digital Xbox One". Post #657 = ether.

Quote

Member
Is Albert still allowed to post here? I feel like his agenda is beyond clear now. Amazon dude got the boot for proposing a contest or something, where we could at least benefit, maybe. But here this guy is, with the only intention of spinning bullshit for his company and to mock every customer, who questioned and ultimately reversed their fucked up anti-consumer strategy.
 

SRTtoZ

Member
I've got no fucking clue. MS has collectively had its head up it's own ass for a while now. I want to critique this whole mess but frankly they've bungled this thing up so hard it's difficult to know where to start.

Albert, I know you read Gaf. You need to stop talking about this. Period. Full stop. No more. Shush.

Every time you or any other MS representative goes on the record to discuss the DRM policies you take an inherently anti consumer approach even if it's not your intent. Which at this point I'm going to assume it's your intent given the frequency with which you and your cohorts put this bungle on the consumer. You can't claim that consumers weren't ready for your vision of the future. We will never be ready for your vision of an all digital future because neither you nor anyone else at MS has never, not once, made it clear what exactly that vision is, or was, could be or will be.

Simply state that Microsoft misread the market. You operated in a vacuum under the assumption that your consumers wanted certain things that we didn't and now you're having to back track. That's fine. You guys made a mistake, it happens. It's time to reread your audience and try again. What you can't do is continue to allude to the fact that consumers weren't ready for your product. That's insulting, and it insinuates that you still have plans to fuck us over in the future. Consumers are naturally entitled. We have to be. We're paying large sums of cash, in this case a premium, for your product. We have certain expectations based on how you present that product and once that transaction is complete we're naturally entitled to complete ownership over that product. We also have expectations for your product based on competing products and services from other manufacturers. You do not operate within a vacuum and this relationship does not work in reverse. You are not entitled to my money.

The DRM strategy as we know it is beneficial to no one but Microsoft and its partners. This statement is true based on the information you have given us. You can claim that miscommunications and disorganization led to dissemination of inaccurate rumors, but the truth of the matter is that the only time you've detailed any consumer benefit was AFTER you shut the DRM down. We also had it on good insider authority that those claims regarding game sharing were complete bullshit and you're lying to us. All the "facts" you attempted to detail to consumers were completely contradictory during the period of time immediately following the initial announcement. Every further clarification only led to further confusion as your company continued to contradict itself. Repeatedly. These are not signs of miscommunications. These are signs of a critical lack of vision and fundamental misunderstanding of your target audience and it shows.

Right now Sony is assaulting you with precision strikes in the market that matters the most during launches, the core gamer audience. You need to buckle the fuck down and figure out what your product is, and who it's for. Right now I can't figure out who this product is for, or why anyone should want it. If it's for the hardcore gamer what are the benefits of paying for XBL over PSN+? You're entering a new generation and Sony is catching up significantly. Voice chat is no longer an appropriate answer. You've failed to clarify on the future of the Games With Gold promotion. At first it was temporary, now it's not? The offerings have been substandard when compared to PS+ over the period of time since it was first announced. Your product is no longer the preferred place to play multiplatform titles and you have virtually no first party resources to draw from. The last entry of your largest IP, halo, was not received well by it's audience and you've lost a chunk of your third party exclusive content over the past generation. As a consumer why should I believe that this won't happen again? Why should I, as a gamer, buy a Xbox One when judging by your track record you've nearly abandoned the 360 halfway through it's life and let a massive series like Mass Effect go multiplatform. It seems to me like this will probably happen again and most major titles I can just wait for.

Is this for the casual gamer? If so why aren't we seeing more kinect games? If so why is it the most expensive console on the market? Where is the content that's going to blow the casual market away? The original kinect was successful because it was a novel add on. A new way of interacting with a product you already had in your household. This is not the case for you any more. The original Wii took off because it was something entirely new, original, and extremely affordable. It was a novelty. This is also not the case for the Xbox One. The family/casual market, if there's much of one left, is going to Nintendo. They have the stronger family friendly IPs. You either need to focus on them or drop the kinect.

Is this a device for the mass market? Designed to integrate into television and media services? It can't be, once again it's the most expensive console no the market. It can't compete in price to something like the Apple TV, or even the Vita TV, a device that at least makes sense as a cheap complimentary purchase to a product a consumer will already own. If that's the case then why haven't we heard more about these television and film products? Where is the info on Remedy's new game that's supposedly blending video games and television entertainment? We know virtually nothing about how it plays, and we know virtually nothing about the television series. Are there other projects like that in the works? If it's designed to compliment a cable subscription why can't it function as a DVR? What benefit is there to a $500 black box that functions as little more than a glorified TV remote? Why aren't you partnering with cable providers? Why are the TV services so severely limited globally?

Microsoft, who is this product for? On the surface you seem to be approaching this device as a jack of all trades type of console. The problem is that the title of "jack of all trades" implies a level of competency in these services that is glaringly absent from your strategy. You lack vision. Period. Stop making excuses. Stop blaming the consumers.

Shut the fuck up, buckle the fuck down, figure out who you're targeting, and fix this.

/end rant

15n5bew.gif
 

scandisk_

Unconfirmed Member
I've got no fucking clue. MS has collectively had its head up it's own ass for a while now. I want to critique this whole mess but frankly they've bungled this thing up so hard it's difficult to know where to start.

Albert, I know you read Gaf. You need to stop talking about this. Period. Full stop. No more. Shush.

Every time you or any other MS representative goes on the record to discuss the DRM policies you take an inherently anti consumer approach even if it's not your intent. Which at this point I'm going to assume it's your intent given the frequency with which you and your cohorts put this bungle on the consumer. You can't claim that consumers weren't ready for your vision of the future. We will never be ready for your vision of an all digital future because neither you nor anyone else at MS has never, not once, made it clear what exactly that vision is, or was, could be or will be.

Simply state that Microsoft misread the market. You operated in a vacuum under the assumption that your consumers wanted certain things that we didn't and now you're having to back track. That's fine. You guys made a mistake, it happens. It's time to reread your audience and try again. What you can't do is continue to allude to the fact that consumers weren't ready for your product. That's insulting, and it insinuates that you still have plans to fuck us over in the future. Consumers are naturally entitled. We have to be. We're paying large sums of cash, in this case a premium, for your product. We have certain expectations based on how you present that product and once that transaction is complete we're naturally entitled to complete ownership over that product. We also have expectations for your product based on competing products and services from other manufacturers. You do not operate within a vacuum and this relationship does not work in reverse. You are not entitled to my money.

The DRM strategy as we know it is beneficial to no one but Microsoft and its partners. This statement is true based on the information you have given us. You can claim that miscommunications and disorganization led to dissemination of inaccurate rumors, but the truth of the matter is that the only time you've detailed any consumer benefit was AFTER you shut the DRM down. We also had it on good insider authority that those claims regarding game sharing were complete bullshit and you're lying to us. All the "facts" you attempted to detail to consumers were completely contradictory during the period of time immediately following the initial announcement. Every further clarification only led to further confusion as your company continued to contradict itself. Repeatedly. These are not signs of miscommunications. These are signs of a critical lack of vision and fundamental misunderstanding of your target audience and it shows.

Right now Sony is assaulting you with precision strikes in the market that matters the most during launches, the core gamer audience. You need to buckle the fuck down and figure out what your product is, and who it's for. Right now I can't figure out who this product is for, or why anyone should want it. If it's for the hardcore gamer what are the benefits of paying for XBL over PSN+? You're entering a new generation and Sony is catching up significantly. Voice chat is no longer an appropriate answer. You've failed to clarify on the future of the Games With Gold promotion. At first it was temporary, now it's not? The offerings have been substandard when compared to PS+ over the period of time since it was first announced. Your product is no longer the preferred place to play multiplatform titles and you have virtually no first party resources to draw from. The last entry of your largest IP, halo, was not received well by it's audience and you've lost a chunk of your third party exclusive content over the past generation. As a consumer why should I believe that this won't happen again? Why should I, as a gamer, buy a Xbox One when judging by your track record you've nearly abandoned the 360 halfway through it's life and let a massive series like Mass Effect go multiplatform. It seems to me like this will probably happen again and most major titles I can just wait for.

Is this for the casual gamer? If so why aren't we seeing more kinect games? If so why is it the most expensive console on the market? Where is the content that's going to blow the casual market away? The original kinect was successful because it was a novel add on. A new way of interacting with a product you already had in your household. This is not the case for you any more. The original Wii took off because it was something entirely new, original, and extremely affordable. It was a novelty. This is also not the case for the Xbox One. The family/casual market, if there's much of one left, is going to Nintendo. They have the stronger family friendly IPs. You either need to focus on them or drop the kinect.

Is this a device for the mass market? Designed to integrate into television and media services? It can't be, once again it's the most expensive console no the market. It can't compete in price to something like the Apple TV, or even the Vita TV, a device that at least makes sense as a cheap complimentary purchase to a product a consumer will already own. If that's the case then why haven't we heard more about these television and film products? Where is the info on Remedy's new game that's supposedly blending video games and television entertainment? We know virtually nothing about how it plays, and we know virtually nothing about the television series. Are there other projects like that in the works? If it's designed to compliment a cable subscription why can't it function as a DVR? What benefit is there to a $500 black box that functions as little more than a glorified TV remote? Why aren't you partnering with cable providers? Why are the TV services so severely limited globally?

Microsoft, who is this product for? On the surface you seem to be approaching this device as a jack of all trades type of console. The problem is that the title of "jack of all trades" implies a level of competency in these services that is glaringly absent from your strategy. You lack vision. Period. Stop making excuses. Stop blaming the consumers.

Shut the fuck up, buckle the fuck down, figure out who you're targeting, and fix this.

/end rant

Tag this man! Seriously such a powerful post!
 
Internet Activists never cease to amaze me.


I can't wait for the day I don't have to deal with Disks.
Dismiss everyone who's against this as an internet activist? Way to add absolutely nothing to the discussion. In fact it's people with your attitude that are probably holding it back.
 
Sure, but my point was that choice still exists in that market. Despite how I may come across throughout this thread, I love digital content and vastly prefer it to the physical, traditional disc product. However, I also think that Microsoft misjudged how ready and willing many console gaming consumers were to abandon the traditional rules of ownership. And my response to the post in question was meant to illustrate that traditional ways to purchase movies still exist. Perhaps the current transition to digital in film and music wouldn't be going so smoothly if it was a forced change as opposed to a system wherein consumers gradually opted for digital services over traditional mechanisms?
Precisely.

Amazon and its Kindle did not render your physical books inoperable and untradeable.
iTunes did not prevent the sharing of music CDs.
Netflix and other movie services didn't change BluRays and DVDs into coasters after they were tied to a watcher.

What these companies have done is incentivise digital purchases, through price or convenience, or prompted users to try digital at no risk to their physical products. Kindle MatchBook is a perfect example, buy a retail book, you can get the digital version too for cheap or free.
 
If Albert's job is to make the Xbox One look not crappy, he should be fired, since all he's done is make himself look like a fool, and allow discussion for more of the glaring flaws in the original AND current designs.

The DirectX rant, Resolutiongate, Xbox Music claims and now this all kind of make me wonder why he bothers.

If his job is to actually explain these things, in a neutral light, then he has a long road ahead of him.

I'm just glad he's there telling us what the xbox division really thinks of the consumers. Even if it seems like an IBS incident each time.
 
People who want all digital xbone can still have it, who is stopping them? Why think about removing the option for everyone? With an all digital console, even devs would have been skeptical to keep game sizes high, thus shitty textures and compressed video/audio. It seems Xbox division has no clue.
 

gohepcat

Banned
There is not a single thing that Microsoft has done that is as bad as the ridiculous hyperbole in this thread. All of you who treat game consoles like human right violations are embarrassing.

I have never once cared about who made any console I've owned, and I've owned most of them. I'm super excited for my PS4 and my XBone.

If you use word like "betrayal" when describing a game console company you need to reevaluate your priorities.
 

D6AMIA6N

Member
360 was my main platform this gen since launch. After the XBone's several slips I bailed. Microsoft just does not seem trustworthy after everything that's transpired, and shit just keeps getting worse.
 

SRTtoZ

Member
Precisely.

Amazon and its Kindle did not render your physical books inoperable and untradeable.
iTunes did not prevent the sharing of music CDs.
Netflix and other movie services didn't change BluRays and DVDs into coasters after they were tied to a watcher.

What these companies have done is incentivise digital purchases, through price or convenience, or prompted users to try digital at no risk to their physical products. Kindle MatchBook is a perfect example, buy a retail book, you can get the digital version too for cheap or free.

Ya, the XB1 pre-180 reversal did not offer a single advantage to todays consoles. Convenience that you dont have to leave your home? We already have that.
 

Gbraga

Member
There is not a single thing that Microsoft has done that is as bad as the ridiculous hyperbole in this thread. All of you who treat game consoles like human right violations are embarrassing.

I have never once cared about who made any console I've owned, and I've owned most of them. I'm super excited for my PS4 and my XBone.

If you use word like "betrayal" when describing a game console company you need to reevaluate your priorities.

False Equivalency Minister
 
He is completely right.

I don't like it. But we don't have a choice.

We always have a choice. Consumers have always had their wallets as their most powerful bargaining tool.

As long as people are willing to buy digital distribution, it will increase. If sales of digital distro titles that are available as physical copies take a nose dive or never take off, then they will continue to release them on physical media.

If a AAA title releases digital only, and has paltry sales, while similar AAA games that have retail discs show massive sales at retail and only a small showing digitally, that will be all the incentive companies need to continue producing physical media.

The defeatist attitude of "we don't have a choice" is exactly the reason Microsoft thought they could get away with all that DRM and 24-hr checkin horse shit. They expected that the vast majority of consumers would have that kind of attitude. Fortunately for us, they were wrong.
 

DietRob

i've been begging for over 5 years.
Great post Foxix. I really agree with everything you posted. Since I'm an older member and have been through several console launches it seems like these companies keep making the same mistakes of overestimating their stature with the consumer base. Sega and Nintendo have done it, Sony did it with the ps3 and now Microsoft.
 

rjinaz

Member
You can do that right fucking now and it doesn't involve any bullshit DRM.

Quoted for truth. This is a really tired argument. I get that there were other possible benefits to what Microsoft was planning but if you hate discs so much, then you have the digital option now. I don't get why anybody thinks that those that wants discs shouldn't have that option.
 

Gbraga

Member
I was perfectly fine with their original policies sans the required 24 hr check in. I would have loved to install off disk and play from hdd and share my digital content with my friends and family. Hopefully they bring it back and restrict said policies to digital content.

You can have all that on PC and without the bullshit, plus the benefit of competition, not tying you to one service, which not only will drive the prices down, but also not render the entire platform useless if either the services become awful or servers go down in the future.

You should look into PC gaming, if you haven't already. Maybe the Steam Machines will be for you.
 
I've got no fucking clue. MS has collectively had its head up it's own ass for a while now. I want to critique this whole mess but frankly they've bungled this thing up so hard it's difficult to know where to start.

Albert, I know you read Gaf. You need to stop talking about this. Period. Full stop. No more. Shush.

Every time you or any other MS representative goes on the record to discuss the DRM policies you take an inherently anti consumer approach even if it's not your intent. Which at this point I'm going to assume it's your intent given the frequency with which you and your cohorts put this bungle on the consumer. You can't claim that consumers weren't ready for your vision of the future. We will never be ready for your vision of an all digital future because neither you nor anyone else at MS has never, not once, made it clear what exactly that vision is, or was, could be or will be.

Simply state that Microsoft misread the market. You operated in a vacuum under the assumption that your consumers wanted certain things that we didn't and now you're having to back track. That's fine. You guys made a mistake, it happens. It's time to reread your audience and try again. What you can't do is continue to allude to the fact that consumers weren't ready for your product. That's insulting, and it insinuates that you still have plans to fuck us over in the future. Consumers are naturally entitled. We have to be. We're paying large sums of cash, in this case a premium, for your product. We have certain expectations based on how you present that product and once that transaction is complete we're naturally entitled to complete ownership over that product. We also have expectations for your product based on competing products and services from other manufacturers. You do not operate within a vacuum and this relationship does not work in reverse. You are not entitled to my money.

The DRM strategy as we know it is beneficial to no one but Microsoft and its partners. This statement is true based on the information you have given us. You can claim that miscommunications and disorganization led to dissemination of inaccurate rumors, but the truth of the matter is that the only time you've detailed any consumer benefit was AFTER you shut the DRM down. We also had it on good insider authority that those claims regarding game sharing were complete bullshit and you're lying to us. All the "facts" you attempted to detail to consumers were completely contradictory during the period of time immediately following the initial announcement. Every further clarification only led to further confusion as your company continued to contradict itself. Repeatedly. These are not signs of miscommunications. These are signs of a critical lack of vision and fundamental misunderstanding of your target audience and it shows.

Right now Sony is assaulting you with precision strikes in the market that matters the most during launches, the core gamer audience. You need to buckle the fuck down and figure out what your product is, and who it's for. Right now I can't figure out who this product is for, or why anyone should want it. If it's for the hardcore gamer what are the benefits of paying for XBL over PSN+? You're entering a new generation and Sony is catching up significantly. Voice chat is no longer an appropriate answer. You've failed to clarify on the future of the Games With Gold promotion. At first it was temporary, now it's not? The offerings have been substandard when compared to PS+ over the period of time since it was first announced. Your product is no longer the preferred place to play multiplatform titles and you have virtually no first party resources to draw from. The last entry of your largest IP, halo, was not received well by it's audience and you've lost a chunk of your third party exclusive content over the past generation. As a consumer why should I believe that this won't happen again? Why should I, as a gamer, buy a Xbox One when judging by your track record you've nearly abandoned the 360 halfway through it's life and let a massive series like Mass Effect go multiplatform. It seems to me like this will probably happen again and most major titles I can just wait for.

Is this for the casual gamer? If so why aren't we seeing more kinect games? If so why is it the most expensive console on the market? Where is the content that's going to blow the casual market away? The original kinect was successful because it was a novel add on. A new way of interacting with a product you already had in your household. This is not the case for you any more. The original Wii took off because it was something entirely new, original, and extremely affordable. It was a novelty. This is also not the case for the Xbox One. The family/casual market, if there's much of one left, is going to Nintendo. They have the stronger family friendly IPs. You either need to focus on them or drop the kinect.

Is this a device for the mass market? Designed to integrate into television and media services? It can't be, once again it's the most expensive console no the market. It can't compete in price to something like the Apple TV, or even the Vita TV, a device that at least makes sense as a cheap complimentary purchase to a product a consumer will already own. If that's the case then why haven't we heard more about these television and film products? Where is the info on Remedy's new game that's supposedly blending video games and television entertainment? We know virtually nothing about how it plays, and we know virtually nothing about the television series. Are there other projects like that in the works? If it's designed to compliment a cable subscription why can't it function as a DVR? What benefit is there to a $500 black box that functions as little more than a glorified TV remote? Why aren't you partnering with cable providers? Why are the TV services so severely limited globally?

Microsoft, who is this product for? On the surface you seem to be approaching this device as a jack of all trades type of console. The problem is that the title of "jack of all trades" implies a level of competency in these services that is glaringly absent from your strategy. You lack vision. Period. Stop making excuses. Stop blaming the consumers.

Shut the fuck up, buckle the fuck down, figure out who you're targeting, and fix this.

/end rant

That one time when Foxix stomped a mudhole in Microsoft.
 

Gbraga

Member
You can do that on Xbox One and PS4.

Hell, you could do that on 360 and PS3.

Yep, I'm almost 100% digital now, and will definitely be 100% digital next gen, I don't like dealing with discs either, but the Xbox One previous business model was not "digital distribution", like some seem to believe.

Oh, that's right, I'm also replaying Max Payne 1 on Steam using Family Share while offline, isn't that beautiful?

I guess what I should have said was that they should have imitated their digital plans to mirror steams and let the disk owners do what they will. They could have easily ha the best of both worlds. I play on steam rarely because I love my couch more than I do my desk. Stoked for steambox.

And that's good evidence of the "all the good stuff you'll miss because you weren't ready" talk being bullshit. If it was so good, why not keep it for digital purchases? I don't think anyone would be against free games, or are they really that childish to say "IF YOU'RE NOT PLAYING ON MY TERMS WE'RE NOT PLAYING AT ALL. HMPF"?

Steam just came and said "hey here's family share join this group to be part of the beta. Oh and about that 2 weeks check in for offline mode, that's a bug, we're working on it". There was no catch.
 

SRTtoZ

Member
I guess what I should have said was that they should have imitated their digital plans to mirror steams and let the disk owners do what they will. They could have easily ha the best of both worlds. I play on steam rarely because I love my couch more than I do my desk. Stoked for steambox.

What makes sense to you and me does not make sense to MS. MS knows about Steam, hell even made a direct comparison to Steam using DRM (Major Nelson) but IMO they had no intention of ever being like Steam.
 
There is not a single thing that Microsoft has done that is as bad as the ridiculous hyperbole in this thread. All of you who treat game consoles like human right violations are embarrassing.

I have never once cared about who made any console I've owned, and I've owned most of them. I'm super excited for my PS4 and my XBone.

If you use word like "betrayal" when describing a game console company you need to reevaluate your priorities.

I see you're trying your damnedest to live up to your tag. Gotta maintain the image.


Those facial expressions are absolutely perfect, lol.

"lol wut..." "hmm okay, bye!" "Dick."

Wind Waker is so amazing.

I really can disagree more, you typed alot and I almost disagree with everything you said. . I highly disagree with this long comment.

Hmm, of course you do.
 
You can do that on Xbox One and PS4.

Hell, you could do that on 360 and PS3.

People who say things like that want to be "disk free" while still being able to get the benefits of store deals that physical copies get.

I personally don't see the big deal of switching disks if you want to save money that badly, but whatev.
 
Somebody humor me. What's the downside of 100% digital? The only things I can think of is you can't (easily) share it w/ friends or family or whatever and you can't sell it back to Gamestop?

I don't disagree w/ 100% digital. It works fine w/ iTunes. Apple got it more right than wrong. It's just that Microsoft wasn't able to simplify their whacko and bizarre rules and regulations and they had a cataclysmic meltdown when they were challenged - and they were rightly challenged.

To the point though, I mean, why do we need all this plastic and landfill coasters? If Microsoft weren't so anti-consumer, they would have found a way to design this system and present (and sell) it but instead they were broadcasting from the "enviable position" and f'd the whole thing up.

Why can't you purchase a license for a game, any game, and then sell the license on an open market? You can with other pieces of software, though it is totally up to the developer/publisher to decide to allow this, or not, or whether to charge a transfer fee, etc. It's not rocket science, it happens all the time, every single day.

Can't wait for the MS post-mortem on this launch.
 
I've got no fucking clue. MS has collectively had its head up it's own ass for a while now. I want to critique this whole mess but frankly they've bungled this thing up so hard it's difficult to know where to start.

Albert, I know you read Gaf. You need to stop talking about this. Period. Full stop. No more. Shush.

Every time you or any other MS representative goes on the record to discuss the DRM policies you take an inherently anti consumer approach even if it's not your intent. Which at this point I'm going to assume it's your intent given the frequency with which you and your cohorts put this bungle on the consumer. You can't claim that consumers weren't ready for your vision of the future. We will never be ready for your vision of an all digital future because neither you nor anyone else at MS has never, not once, made it clear what exactly that vision is, or was, could be or will be.

Simply state that Microsoft misread the market. You operated in a vacuum under the assumption that your consumers wanted certain things that we didn't and now you're having to back track. That's fine. You guys made a mistake, it happens. It's time to reread your audience and try again. What you can't do is continue to allude to the fact that consumers weren't ready for your product. That's insulting, and it insinuates that you still have plans to fuck us over in the future. Consumers are naturally entitled. We have to be. We're paying large sums of cash, in this case a premium, for your product. We have certain expectations based on how you present that product and once that transaction is complete we're naturally entitled to complete ownership over that product. We also have expectations for your product based on competing products and services from other manufacturers. You do not operate within a vacuum and this relationship does not work in reverse. You are not entitled to my money.

The DRM strategy as we know it is beneficial to no one but Microsoft and its partners. This statement is true based on the information you have given us. You can claim that miscommunications and disorganization led to dissemination of inaccurate rumors, but the truth of the matter is that the only time you've detailed any consumer benefit was AFTER you shut the DRM down. We also had it on good insider authority that those claims regarding game sharing were complete bullshit and you're lying to us. All the "facts" you attempted to detail to consumers were completely contradictory during the period of time immediately following the initial announcement. Every further clarification only led to further confusion as your company continued to contradict itself. Repeatedly. These are not signs of miscommunications. These are signs of a critical lack of vision and fundamental misunderstanding of your target audience and it shows.

Right now Sony is assaulting you with precision strikes in the market that matters the most during launches, the core gamer audience. You need to buckle the fuck down and figure out what your product is, and who it's for. Right now I can't figure out who this product is for, or why anyone should want it. If it's for the hardcore gamer what are the benefits of paying for XBL over PSN+? You're entering a new generation and Sony is catching up significantly. Voice chat is no longer an appropriate answer. You've failed to clarify on the future of the Games With Gold promotion. At first it was temporary, now it's not? The offerings have been substandard when compared to PS+ over the period of time since it was first announced. Your product is no longer the preferred place to play multiplatform titles and you have virtually no first party resources to draw from. The last entry of your largest IP, halo, was not received well by it's audience and you've lost a chunk of your third party exclusive content over the past generation. As a consumer why should I believe that this won't happen again? Why should I, as a gamer, buy a Xbox One when judging by your track record you've nearly abandoned the 360 halfway through it's life and let a massive series like Mass Effect go multiplatform. It seems to me like this will probably happen again and most major titles I can just wait for.

Is this for the casual gamer? If so why aren't we seeing more kinect games? If so why is it the most expensive console on the market? Where is the content that's going to blow the casual market away? The original kinect was successful because it was a novel add on. A new way of interacting with a product you already had in your household. This is not the case for you any more. The original Wii took off because it was something entirely new, original, and extremely affordable. It was a novelty. This is also not the case for the Xbox One. The family/casual market, if there's much of one left, is going to Nintendo. They have the stronger family friendly IPs. You either need to focus on them or drop the kinect.

Is this a device for the mass market? Designed to integrate into television and media services? It can't be, once again it's the most expensive console no the market. It can't compete in price to something like the Apple TV, or even the Vita TV, a device that at least makes sense as a cheap complimentary purchase to a product a consumer will already own. If that's the case then why haven't we heard more about these television and film products? Where is the info on Remedy's new game that's supposedly blending video games and television entertainment? We know virtually nothing about how it plays, and we know virtually nothing about the television series. Are there other projects like that in the works? If it's designed to compliment a cable subscription why can't it function as a DVR? What benefit is there to a $500 black box that functions as little more than a glorified TV remote? Why aren't you partnering with cable providers? Why are the TV services so severely limited globally?

Microsoft, who is this product for? On the surface you seem to be approaching this device as a jack of all trades type of console. The problem is that the title of "jack of all trades" implies a level of competency in these services that is glaringly absent from your strategy. You lack vision. Period. Stop making excuses. Stop blaming the consumers.

Shut the fuck up, buckle the fuck down, figure out who you're targeting, and fix this.

/end rant

We should all just quote this post in every single reply to this thread. Force A.P. and maybe a few others from MS to pay attention and read this shit.

I couldn't have said it better myself, and believe me, I've tried. Fox do you mind if I quote this post word for word in my blog? This shit needs to spread. All credit would be given to you of course.

I mean hell I'm excited for the XB1's launch, but a lot of that excitement has to do with them giving me one free so I don't have to risk $500 on something that might change into their former 'vision' at some point. So now I can just be excited for the games I'm interested in since I'm on a 'free roll'. But none of that changes the bungling and anti-consumer doublespeak that apparently is STILL going on. Man, and just when I thought we were past crap like this, someone from MS has to come out and start spouting nonsense again and blaming the consumer for our inability to embrace the future. /facepalmthroughthebackofmyhead
 

Cornbread78

Member
damn Foxis, what have you done...

albert, read it and take it in.... passion, something you guys are missing from the gamers out there....
 

D6AMIA6N

Member
We should all just quote this post in every single reply to this thread. Force A.P. and maybe a few others from MS to pay attention and read this shit.

I couldn't have said it better myself, and believe me, I've tried. Fox do you mind if I quote this post word for word in my blog? This shit needs to spread. All credit would be given to you of course.

I too thought it was exceptional and worth reading. A great post that should be spread. Nice work Foxix, you've articulated what many could not.
 
Somebody humor me. What's the downside of 100% digital? The only things I can think of is you can't (easily) share it w/ friends or family or whatever and you can't sell it back to Gamestop?

I don't disagree w/ 100% digital. It works fine w/ iTunes. Apple got it more right than wrong. It's just that Microsoft wasn't able to simplify their whacko and bizarre rules and regulations and they had a cataclysmic meltdown when they were challenged - and they were rightly challenged.

To the point though, I mean, why do we need all this plastic and landfill coasters? If Microsoft weren't so anti-consumer, they would have found a way to design this system and present (and sell) it but instead they were broadcasting from the "enviable position" and f'd the whole thing up.

Why can't you purchase a license for a game, any game, and then sell the license on an open market? You can with other pieces of software, though it is totally up to the developer/publisher to decide to allow this, or not, or whether to charge a transfer fee, etc. It's not rocket science, it happens all the time, every single day.

Can't wait for the MS post-mortem on this launch.
Humour you? Oh yes, your majesty. Not everyone has the capability to download 50 GB of game data in any sort of feasible manner, Simple, really.
 

Zephyrus

Banned
We should all just quote this post in every single reply to this thread. Force A.P. and maybe a few others from MS to pay attention and read this shit.

I couldn't have said it better myself, and believe me, I've tried. Fox do you mind if I quote this post word for word in my blog? This shit needs to spread. All credit would be given to you of course.
actually made a thread about it. It's just so damn good.
 
I think the question I have is were they really prepared to make a compelling case for the move? Obviously, his point that people weren't ready is correct, but I'm not convinced that they were truly prepared to really pull out all the stops in trying to win people over in as much as they just expected people to accept it. There tended to be a lot of comparisons to other platforms/media that have gone mostly (if not completely) digital, but there didn't seem to be any understanding of how long that process was and what it took to get there. When they were scrambling to win people over with ideas like the Family Sharing plan, it was pretty clear that they really didn't have their message completely fleshed out.

It was only fleshed out enough to fuck people over. They hadn't got passed that part.
Family sharing seemed like an action taken in response to the internet hate machine that followed their reveal and E3 presser.
 

Foxix Von

Member
We should all just quote this post in every single reply to this thread. Force A.P. and maybe a few others from MS to pay attention and read this shit.

I couldn't have said it better myself, and believe me, I've tried. Fox do you mind if I quote this post word for word in my blog? This shit needs to spread. All credit would be given to you of course.

Please be my guest. I'd be honored. :D
 
I've got no fucking clue. MS has collectively had its head up it's own ass for a while now. I want to critique this whole mess but frankly they've bungled this thing up so hard it's difficult to know where to start.

Albert, I know you read Gaf. You need to stop talking about this. Period. Full stop. No more. Shush.

Every time you or any other MS representative goes on the record to discuss the DRM policies you take an inherently anti consumer approach even if it's not your intent. Which at this point I'm going to assume it's your intent given the frequency with which you and your cohorts put this bungle on the consumer. You can't claim that consumers weren't ready for your vision of the future. We will never be ready for your vision of an all digital future because neither you nor anyone else at MS has never, not once, made it clear what exactly that vision is, or was, could be or will be.

Simply state that Microsoft misread the market. You operated in a vacuum under the assumption that your consumers wanted certain things that we didn't and now you're having to back track. That's fine. You guys made a mistake, it happens. It's time to reread your audience and try again. What you can't do is continue to allude to the fact that consumers weren't ready for your product. That's insulting, and it insinuates that you still have plans to fuck us over in the future. Consumers are naturally entitled. We have to be. We're paying large sums of cash, in this case a premium, for your product. We have certain expectations based on how you present that product and once that transaction is complete we're naturally entitled to complete ownership over that product. We also have expectations for your product based on competing products and services from other manufacturers. You do not operate within a vacuum and this relationship does not work in reverse. You are not entitled to my money.

The DRM strategy as we know it is beneficial to no one but Microsoft and its partners. This statement is true based on the information you have given us. You can claim that miscommunications and disorganization led to dissemination of inaccurate rumors, but the truth of the matter is that the only time you've detailed any consumer benefit was AFTER you shut the DRM down. We also had it on good insider authority that those claims regarding game sharing were complete bullshit and you're lying to us. All the "facts" you attempted to detail to consumers were completely contradictory during the period of time immediately following the initial announcement. Every further clarification only led to further confusion as your company continued to contradict itself. Repeatedly. These are not signs of miscommunications. These are signs of a critical lack of vision and fundamental misunderstanding of your target audience and it shows.

Right now Sony is assaulting you with precision strikes in the market that matters the most during launches, the core gamer audience. You need to buckle the fuck down and figure out what your product is, and who it's for. Right now I can't figure out who this product is for, or why anyone should want it. If it's for the hardcore gamer what are the benefits of paying for XBL over PSN+? You're entering a new generation and Sony is catching up significantly. Voice chat is no longer an appropriate answer. You've failed to clarify on the future of the Games With Gold promotion. At first it was temporary, now it's not? The offerings have been substandard when compared to PS+ over the period of time since it was first announced. Your product is no longer the preferred place to play multiplatform titles and you have virtually no first party resources to draw from. The last entry of your largest IP, halo, was not received well by it's audience and you've lost a chunk of your third party exclusive content over the past generation. As a consumer why should I believe that this won't happen again? Why should I, as a gamer, buy a Xbox One when judging by your track record you've nearly abandoned the 360 halfway through it's life and let a massive series like Mass Effect go multiplatform. It seems to me like this will probably happen again and most major titles I can just wait for.

Is this for the casual gamer? If so why aren't we seeing more kinect games? If so why is it the most expensive console on the market? Where is the content that's going to blow the casual market away? The original kinect was successful because it was a novel add on. A new way of interacting with a product you already had in your household. This is not the case for you any more. The original Wii took off because it was something entirely new, original, and extremely affordable. It was a novelty. This is also not the case for the Xbox One. The family/casual market, if there's much of one left, is going to Nintendo. They have the stronger family friendly IPs. You either need to focus on them or drop the kinect.

Is this a device for the mass market? Designed to integrate into television and media services? It can't be, once again it's the most expensive console no the market. It can't compete in price to something like the Apple TV, or even the Vita TV, a device that at least makes sense as a cheap complimentary purchase to a product a consumer will already own. If that's the case then why haven't we heard more about these television and film products? Where is the info on Remedy's new game that's supposedly blending video games and television entertainment? We know virtually nothing about how it plays, and we know virtually nothing about the television series. Are there other projects like that in the works? If it's designed to compliment a cable subscription why can't it function as a DVR? What benefit is there to a $500 black box that functions as little more than a glorified TV remote? Why aren't you partnering with cable providers? Why are the TV services so severely limited globally?

Microsoft, who is this product for? On the surface you seem to be approaching this device as a jack of all trades type of console. The problem is that the title of "jack of all trades" implies a level of competency in these services that is glaringly absent from your strategy. You lack vision. Period. Stop making excuses. Stop blaming the consumers.

Shut the fuck up, buckle the fuck down, figure out who you're targeting, and fix this.

/end rant

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