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[Mass Effect]

Fun fact for all those trying to compare liken this to iTunes: All music on iTunes is DRM-free. I can copy and put it on as many devices as I want. No check-ins required.

Just saying.

 

[Hydrogen Bluebird]

Holy shit at that Foxix post. Just Awesome. Explains why most people have a problem with the Xbox One and how it's been marketed.

 

[Mistwalker]

All digital future? Sure, I'm fine with that.

But not your YOUR terms, Microsoft. Never on your terms.

And this doubling down on playing the victim and blaming customers for actually valuing their own rights...dear lord. The XBox One is the first console since the 8-bit era I will never buy, MS, and I feel better about that every time you open your mouth and belittle everyone's intelligence.

 

[Replicant]

My Australian internet is not gonna be ready for digital only EVER in my lifetime.

And we're talking about Australia here. There are other countries where the internet connection is worse than ours. It shows how ignorant and arrogant MS is when it comes to people outside the US. Well, either that or they are being run by a bunch of dumbasses who don't think beyond their small, privilege world.

I would also never ever support any company who seeks to take away my ownership rights to items that I have purchased. This, more than anything is something that I will likely never forgive MS for. If I buy a game on disc then it's MINE. It's up to me to whom I sell it to after I bought/use it.

 

[NervousXtian]

You have no clue how a business operates or how economics work. Never in the history of the world has a closed system without competition led to a decrease in prices, it does the exact opposite.

Huh? iOS? Sales all the time, and low prices.. Completely and utterly fucking closed.

1)
Hey you know what, they can still go all digital right now. They can screw retailers right now. They can go with no always online requirement, no ridiculous DRM and price their games like Steam right now. No one is stopping them from doing that..

2) No middle man = lower prices, right?
Then please explain the pricing of age old call of duty games on steam and Blizzard SC2/Diablo 3 games to me right now.

They can't screw retailers right now, too embedded.

2) So you want to take few games that haven't dropped all that much, and ignore every other fucking game that has? Yeah, no.

Also, can people stop quoting giant ass posts just to reply with a GIF.. it's really annoying when reading a thread to have to scroll through the same post MULTIPLE times to just have a lame meme GIF as the only reply.

Besides... please, oh fucking please tell me how Microsoft could survive without having games priced fairly in the long run.

They price $60 and never drop, they are completely fucking dead.

People hate MS so much that they tend to ignore reality. Microsoft is a company who, despite what people think, is in the business of turning profits (though admittedly, they suck with some of those choices). If they closed off the market, and artificially held prices high.. they'd die.

The more likely choice is to offer rolling sales ala Steam, Amazon, GOG, Gamefly, etc. Because in the end, it's not about the $60 per game, it's about total revenue.

I mean, shit.. Steam had sales that were epic BEFORE the competition became a thing. Why'd they do that? Because they love gamers? No, because it pushes huge volume, adding tons of revenue on games that weren't selling all that much anymore.

It makes complete business sense for a closed market to chase volume with sales. To both MS and publishers.

Digital allows flexible pricing without all the BS retail kickbacks, price adjustments, etc. Retail is a pain in the ass.

 

[Later Alligator]

Microsoft should have stuck with its vision if it truly believed in it.

Apple hit a nerve years ago when it launched the MacBook Air without an optical drive. Many people were upset, but the company had a product and a vision of the future it believed in and worked to make it reality.

Microsoft never had an honest conversation with customers because its message was muddled from the get go. No one knew who was being honest and who wasn't, and the features Microsoft decided to promote were not targeted at its core audience. It was a mess.

I'm tired of Microsoft treating me as if I were just too stupid to "get" its plan.

No thanks.

the macbook air was an option. thats good business. the consumer can assess both options and decide which one they prefer, then buy that product

you could buy a macbook pro if you wanted an optical drive. its not like they one day decided, "fuck all those last gen laptop owners and their optical media. we're only making macbook airs from this day forward". its the same reason honda doesn't make 1 vehicle. not everyone wants a mini van

microsoft had one product with their vision of how a digital future should work tied to it, and if you didnt like it they had a product for you. its called the xbox 360

 

[Finalizer]

I thought the resale fee was fascilitated by MS but still up to the dev, not MS. The intention being that the devs wanted a cut to offset loss of new sale and shared said cut with MS.

Pretty sure there was some general blanket percentage cut that MS got as part of their disc resale policy, but I could be remembering wrong. Might go check to see if that old explanation thing is still on the MS site.

So Microsoft is anti you buying physical games on other platforms?

Microsoft is not a product or market.

See my above fun-filled analogy.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

I would have loved to turn all my physical disc games into digital copies that I can instant switch between with that awesome OS without having the right disc in the drive. I still miss that aspect of the old Xbox One a lot. Needing to have the disc in there is a downgrade from the way it was before.

Downloading digitally isn't an option I want to use too much because I don't always want to have to download such huge files, even with a fast connection. It's better to have the disc itself for that, for the install.

 

[lifeexpectancy]

And we're talking about Australia here. There are other countries where the internet connection is worse than ours. It shows how ignorant and arrogant MS is when it comes to people outside the US. Well, either that or they are being run by a bunch of dumbasses who don't think beyond their small, privilege world.

I would also never ever support any company who seeks to take away my ownership rights to items that I have purchased. This, more than anything is something that I will likely never forgive MS for. If I buy a game on disc then it's MINE. It's up to me to whom I sell it to after I bought/use it.

Lol outside the US? They're ignorant about INSIDE the US.

The weird thing about USA is we have everything from the best internet in the world to some of the worst. There are still people here on dial-up, or if they're lucky DSL through their phone provider. But if they live out in the boondocks (rural areas), the DSL can sometimes be as slow/bad as dial-up speeds.

The only thing we have going for us is I don't know of anyone that has a monthly cap, but if you're getting less than 1mbps down on a good day, a monthly cap doesn't really mean much b/c you can't download large files easily anyway.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

That's one point that can be made. Another that I always considered more important was understanding what it took for Steam to get where it is today. Even if I give Microsoft the benefit of the doubt and assume that their DRM was going to be pretty much exactly the same as Steam, I think it's a mistake to assume that Valve released Steam to the public and everyone immediately fell in love with it.

That point has been made a thousand times, yet the same false equivalency between Steam and Microsoft's proposed scheme keeps surfacing.

 

[EventHorizon]

I have iTunes and I have a small portion of my library local, the rest is in "the cloud." As long as I'm connected, I have access. I'm not worried about 15-20 years from now, because Apple isn't suddenly going to go away w/ my stuff. Never gonna happen.

What I'd be more worried about is that in probably 10 years, that Blu-Ray disc is going to be a coaster and unless you collect antiques (and can maintain lasers) you aren't going to be able to play that in 15 or 20 years... the time frame you're concerned about.

Oh really?!? It is not like Microsoft has a history of shutting down drm servers... Oh Wait...

DRM sucks redux: Microsoft to nuke MSN Music DRM keys
Customers who have purchased music from Microsoft's now-defunct MSN Music store are now facing a decision they never anticipated making: commit to which computers (and OS) they want to authorize forever, or give up access to the music they paid for. Why? Because Microsoft has decided that it's done supporting the service and will be turning off the MSN Music license servers by the end of this summer.

If you have the console and the disk, you'll always be able to play your game. On the other hand, a console plus a digital copy is not so guaranteed.

Personally I just like the portability of a disk. If I want to go play one of my games at a friend's house, or even a second console in another room, all I have to do is bring the disk and pop it in. With digital I have to download the game all over again and it is unclear who else besides myself could play the game on the second machine.

Edit: Oh and Foxix...Wow, just wow. I bow to your greatness.

 

[Finalizer]

I honestly can't say that I do. I appreciate the attempt, though.

Then just understand this: Closed platforms are a bitch when consumers don't like what the platform is offering - i.e. restrictions.

 

[SRTtoZ]

So Microsoft is anti you buying physical games on other platforms?

Microsoft is not a product or market.

Thats exactly what happened. MS said, you dont like it? Stick with 360 or go somewhere else. People went somewhere else...

MS: "Wait, no come back, please, no."

 

[Micromegas]

As long as you take care of your discs, you don't have to worry about that problem. Heck, my PS1 & PS2 discs still works on my PS2, despite being much older.

And in case of lasers failing, you can always either find someone to fix it, or buy a replacement console.

Discs: Not so. Ever heard of bit-rot?

Lasers: Wow, that sounds like fun. First of all, there will be no parts in 15-20 years for current optical-based drives. Second of all, I doubt there will be "replacement consoles.'

 

[Micromegas]

Oh really?!? It is not like Microsoft has a history of shutting down drm servers... Oh Wait...

Which is why you don't want Microsoft anywhere near this.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

You can also buy CDs, but no one does that. In fact now mp3s are dying in favor of cloud services (which is why iTunes is moving toward that).

Games will go digi mainstream. We're more than half way there now. Even Nintendo's eShop is picking up. Eventually it'll all be cloud based. Probably 10+ years away.

You should do some research , i see people saying this all the time but it's far from the truth .
It's only last year that DD past CD when it comes to albums sales for USA and that is after how many years.
It should also be said that unlike music games size go up every gen we already seeing 40+ GB games and then there also game play to think about when it come to cloud .
Every thing will go DD but it going to take more than 10 years for the AAA games that we play on console even more so in certain parts of the world.
Then again it seem MS don't really care about any places else and they don't seem to know much about the US either .

 

[Lima]

Hopefully they bring back the DRM and all the features that were planned in mind with it back for digital games. Fuck discs.

 

[Yagharek]

So Microsoft is anti you buying physical games on other platforms?

Microsoft is not a product or market.

Dont be obtuse. They are anti choice with respect to their own services.

 

[Imperfected]

Their marketing message wasn't confused at all:

Sony: "For the players" = we are a game console for people who play games.

Microsoft: a console for American males age 18-27 who have reliable high-speed internet, a cable television subscription with further premium content subscriptions (NFL Sunday Ticket, HBO, etc.), and a large, mostly-empty living room.

I mean, it's enormously stupid to market your console almost exclusively to one percent of the world's population, but target locked down. Uh, other than the "no used games" thing; people in that specific demographic actually are absurdly likely to be major users of the trade-in system, especially since there's also a high attach rate for annual franchises (Madden, CoD, etc.) within that group.

So, you know, the one percent of that one percent who don't trade in their Madden whenever a new one comes out. That's still as many as 700,000 potential customers they were practically guaranteed to sell to!

 

[DSix]

Bullshit, Steam is digital too and it doesn't try to fuck us the way MS tried. Anti-consumer policies have nothing to do with the "digital future".

 

[Lima]

Bullshit, Steam is digital too and it doesn't try to fuck us the way MS tried. Anti-consumer policies have nothing to do with the "digital future".

And maybe you know, just maybe their service would have gotten better over time and evolved just like Steam which was a piece of shit that everyone hated when it was first released.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

And maybe you know, just maybe their service would have gotten better over time and evolved just like Steam which was a piece of shit that everyone hated when it was first released.

Maybe it would have. Of course, that would have required a commitment on their part similar to what Valve demonstrated with Steam, as opposed to this double speak we are getting now wherein there is an attempt to feign humility and seek forgiveness in one breath, and disingenuous "it would have been awesome if not for the angry mob ruining everything" excuses in the next. If it was truly a great product that people would have come around to, there's no need for a complete 180. You could offer both visions simultaneously as opposed to giving up and concluding that you were ahead of your time with an idea that was just too awesome for the here and now.

 

[Thaumaturgic Tomato]

I've got no fucking clue. MS has collectively had its head up it's own ass for a while now. I want to critique this whole mess but frankly they've bungled this thing up so hard it's difficult to know where to start.

Albert, I know you read Gaf. You need to stop talking about this. Period. Full stop. No more. Shush.

Every time you or any other MS representative goes on the record to discuss the DRM policies you take an inherently anti consumer approach even if it's not your intent. Which at this point I'm going to assume it's your intent given the frequency with which you and your cohorts put this bungle on the consumer. You can't claim that consumers weren't ready for your vision of the future. We will never be ready for your vision of an all digital future because neither you nor anyone else at MS has never, not once, made it clear what exactly that vision is, or was, could be or will be.

Simply state that Microsoft misread the market. You operated in a vacuum under the assumption that your consumers wanted certain things that we didn't and now you're having to back track. That's fine. You guys made a mistake, it happens. It's time to reread your audience and try again. What you can't do is continue to allude to the fact that consumers weren't ready for your product. That's insulting, and it insinuates that you still have plans to fuck us over in the future. Consumers are naturally entitled. We have to be. We're paying large sums of cash, in this case a premium, for your product. We have certain expectations based on how you present that product and once that transaction is complete we're naturally entitled to complete ownership over that product. We also have expectations for your product based on competing products and services from other manufacturers. You do not operate within a vacuum and this relationship does not work in reverse. You are not entitled to my money.

The DRM strategy as we know it is beneficial to no one but Microsoft and its partners. This statement is true based on the information you have given us. You can claim that miscommunications and disorganization led to dissemination of inaccurate rumors, but the truth of the matter is that the only time you've detailed any consumer benefit was AFTER you shut the DRM down. We also had it on good insider authority that those claims regarding game sharing were complete bullshit and you're lying to us. All the "facts" you attempted to detail to consumers were completely contradictory during the period of time immediately following the initial announcement. Every further clarification only led to further confusion as your company continued to contradict itself. Repeatedly. These are not signs of miscommunications. These are signs of a critical lack of vision and fundamental misunderstanding of your target audience and it shows.

Right now Sony is assaulting you with precision strikes in the market that matters the most during launches, the core gamer audience. You need to buckle the fuck down and figure out what your product is, and who it's for. Right now I can't figure out who this product is for, or why anyone should want it. If it's for the hardcore gamer what are the benefits of paying for XBL over PSN+? You're entering a new generation and Sony is catching up significantly. Voice chat is no longer an appropriate answer. You've failed to clarify on the future of the Games With Gold promotion. At first it was temporary, now it's not? The offerings have been substandard when compared to PS+ over the period of time since it was first announced. Your product is no longer the preferred place to play multiplatform titles and you have virtually no first party resources to draw from. The last entry of your largest IP, halo, was not received well by it's audience and you've lost a chunk of your third party exclusive content over the past generation. As a consumer why should I believe that this won't happen again? Why should I, as a gamer, buy a Xbox One when judging by your track record you've nearly abandoned the 360 halfway through it's life and let a massive series like Mass Effect go multiplatform. It seems to me like this will probably happen again and most major titles I can just wait for.

Is this for the casual gamer? If so why aren't we seeing more kinect games? If so why is it the most expensive console on the market? Where is the content that's going to blow the casual market away? The original kinect was successful because it was a novel add on. A new way of interacting with a product you already had in your household. This is not the case for you any more. The original Wii took off because it was something entirely new, original, and extremely affordable. It was a novelty. This is also not the case for the Xbox One. The family/casual market, if there's much of one left, is going to Nintendo. They have the stronger family friendly IPs. You either need to focus on them or drop the kinect.

Is this a device for the mass market? Designed to integrate into television and media services? It can't be, once again it's the most expensive console no the market. It can't compete in price to something like the Apple TV, or even the Vita TV, a device that at least makes sense as a cheap complimentary purchase to a product a consumer will already own. If that's the case then why haven't we heard more about these television and film products? Where is the info on Remedy's new game that's supposedly blending video games and television entertainment? We know virtually nothing about how it plays, and we know virtually nothing about the television series. Are there other projects like that in the works? If it's designed to compliment a cable subscription why can't it function as a DVR? What benefit is there to a $500 black box that functions as little more than a glorified TV remote? Why aren't you partnering with cable providers? Why are the TV services so severely limited globally?

Microsoft, who is this product for? On the surface you seem to be approaching this device as a jack of all trades type of console. The problem is that the title of "jack of all trades" implies a level of competency in these services that is glaringly absent from your strategy. You lack vision. Period. Stop making excuses. Stop blaming the consumers.

Shut the fuck up, buckle the fuck down, figure out who you're targeting, and fix this.

/end rant

 

[boredandlazy]

And maybe you know, just maybe their service would have gotten better over time and evolved just like Steam which was a piece of shit that everyone hated when it was first released.

Valve was pioneering the idea, they had no precedent to base their service from. Microsoft had a currently successful system like Steam to base their work from, and they still managed to completely fuck up the idea.

 

[Biker19]

Discs: Not so. Ever heard of bit-rot?

While true, Bit-Rot can be mitigated by storing discs in a dark, cool location with low humidity.

I doubt there will be "replacement consoles.'

When I meant by "replacement consoles," I mean by used consoles.

 

[Haunted]

I've got no fucking clue. MS has collectively had its head up it's own ass for a while now. I want to critique this whole mess but frankly they've bungled this thing up so hard it's difficult to know where to start.

Albert, I know you read Gaf. You need to stop talking about this. Period. Full stop. No more. Shush.

Every time you or any other MS representative goes on the record to discuss the DRM policies you take an inherently anti consumer approach even if it's not your intent. Which at this point I'm going to assume it's your intent given the frequency with which you and your cohorts put this bungle on the consumer. You can't claim that consumers weren't ready for your vision of the future. We will never be ready for your vision of an all digital future because neither you nor anyone else at MS has never, not once, made it clear what exactly that vision is, or was, could be or will be.

Simply state that Microsoft misread the market. You operated in a vacuum under the assumption that your consumers wanted certain things that we didn't and now you're having to back track. That's fine. You guys made a mistake, it happens. It's time to reread your audience and try again. What you can't do is continue to allude to the fact that consumers weren't ready for your product. That's insulting, and it insinuates that you still have plans to fuck us over in the future. Consumers are naturally entitled. We have to be. We're paying large sums of cash, in this case a premium, for your product. We have certain expectations based on how you present that product and once that transaction is complete we're naturally entitled to complete ownership over that product. We also have expectations for your product based on competing products and services from other manufacturers. You do not operate within a vacuum and this relationship does not work in reverse. You are not entitled to my money.

The DRM strategy as we know it is beneficial to no one but Microsoft and its partners. This statement is true based on the information you have given us. You can claim that miscommunications and disorganization led to dissemination of inaccurate rumors, but the truth of the matter is that the only time you've detailed any consumer benefit was AFTER you shut the DRM down. We also had it on good insider authority that those claims regarding game sharing were complete bullshit and you're lying to us. All the "facts" you attempted to detail to consumers were completely contradictory during the period of time immediately following the initial announcement. Every further clarification only led to further confusion as your company continued to contradict itself. Repeatedly. These are not signs of miscommunications. These are signs of a critical lack of vision and fundamental misunderstanding of your target audience and it shows.

Right now Sony is assaulting you with precision strikes in the market that matters the most during launches, the core gamer audience. You need to buckle the fuck down and figure out what your product is, and who it's for. Right now I can't figure out who this product is for, or why anyone should want it. If it's for the hardcore gamer what are the benefits of paying for XBL over PSN+? You're entering a new generation and Sony is catching up significantly. Voice chat is no longer an appropriate answer. You've failed to clarify on the future of the Games With Gold promotion. At first it was temporary, now it's not? The offerings have been substandard when compared to PS+ over the period of time since it was first announced. Your product is no longer the preferred place to play multiplatform titles and you have virtually no first party resources to draw from. The last entry of your largest IP, halo, was not received well by it's audience and you've lost a chunk of your third party exclusive content over the past generation. As a consumer why should I believe that this won't happen again? Why should I, as a gamer, buy a Xbox One when judging by your track record you've nearly abandoned the 360 halfway through it's life and let a massive series like Mass Effect go multiplatform. It seems to me like this will probably happen again and most major titles I can just wait for.

Is this for the casual gamer? If so why aren't we seeing more kinect games? If so why is it the most expensive console on the market? Where is the content that's going to blow the casual market away? The original kinect was successful because it was a novel add on. A new way of interacting with a product you already had in your household. This is not the case for you any more. The original Wii took off because it was something entirely new, original, and extremely affordable. It was a novelty. This is also not the case for the Xbox One. The family/casual market, if there's much of one left, is going to Nintendo. They have the stronger family friendly IPs. You either need to focus on them or drop the kinect.

Is this a device for the mass market? Designed to integrate into television and media services? It can't be, once again it's the most expensive console no the market. It can't compete in price to something like the Apple TV, or even the Vita TV, a device that at least makes sense as a cheap complimentary purchase to a product a consumer will already own. If that's the case then why haven't we heard more about these television and film products? Where is the info on Remedy's new game that's supposedly blending video games and television entertainment? We know virtually nothing about how it plays, and we know virtually nothing about the television series. Are there other projects like that in the works? If it's designed to compliment a cable subscription why can't it function as a DVR? What benefit is there to a $500 black box that functions as little more than a glorified TV remote? Why aren't you partnering with cable providers? Why are the TV services so severely limited globally?

Microsoft, who is this product for? On the surface you seem to be approaching this device as a jack of all trades type of console. The problem is that the title of "jack of all trades" implies a level of competency in these services that is glaringly absent from your strategy. You lack vision. Period. Stop making excuses. Stop blaming the consumers.

Shut the fuck up, buckle the fuck down, figure out who you're targeting, and fix this.

/end rant

Don't care if it's been quoted 50 times already. Contender for non-joke post of the year. Make it a sticky. Get him a tag. Put it on @NeoGAFBestPosts.

Still a little dizzy from nodding my head in agreement so much, Foxix, you magnificent bastard.

 

[Penryn]

I think people should realize that you were given the right to not only share but resell your digital content in the Xbox One all-digital system.

THIS IS SOMETHING ENTIRELY NEW for digital content sales. You buy a kindle book on amazon, you have no resale rights. You buy a game on steam, until MS came along and give them the idea, there was no family sharing.

The future is all digital, at least Microsoft was trying to give you something in exchange.

 

[freenudemacusers]

And maybe you know, just maybe their service would have gotten better over time and evolved just like Steam which was a piece of shit that everyone hated when it was first released.

Well they can try again in 5 years

 

[Killer]

I loved the 360. I was a huge Xbox fan last gen but now i just don't know what they are doing. it's like there is no communication or leadership within the XBOX division. It really hard to defend this company right now unless you close your ears with your hands and start yelling LALALA while ignoring everything that has been going on..

Same boat. Plus, there isn't much for me on xbone.

Titanfall is coming to PC and they fucked up Halo beyond repair with 4,

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I think people should realize that you were given the right to not only share but resell your digital content in the Xbox One first system.

THIS IS SOMETHING ENTIRELY NEW for digital content sales. You buy a kindle book on amazon, you have no resale rights. You buy a game on steam, until MS came along and give them the idea, there was no family sharing.

The future is all digital, at least Microsoft was trying to give you something in exchange.

I don't see any reason to give them credit for something they haven't followed through on.

 

[Nekofrog]

Maybe it would have. Of course, that would have required a commitment on their part similar to what Valve demonstrated with Steam, as opposed to this double speak we are getting now wherein there is an attempt to feign humility and seek forgiveness in one breath, and disingenuous "it would have been awesome if not for the angry mob ruining everything" excuses in the next. If it was truly a great product that people would have come around to, there's no need for a complete 180. You could offer both visions simultaneously as opposed to giving up and concluding that you were ahead of your time with an idea that was just too awesome for the here and now.

The other thing is, it's 2013 (soon to be 2014). Steam came out at a time when there was nobody doing what they did; they had the benefit of the doubt and a vast amount of time to improve their service. If Microsoft dropped something that didn't perform up to the level of what Steam does now while comparing their service to Steam itself, there would be hell to pay. People would look at it and say "I'll go to the ecosystem that doesn't promise the moon and not deliver". The amount of time from launch to "Hey we're console Steam now" would be too long, no matter how short it would be (and knowing MS, it'd be a while).

 

[zeelman]

I do agree with him, gamers weren't rational about it at all. MS never really got a chance with it. It was literally Steam DRM with the ability to trade in games.

 

[Penryn]

I don't see any reason to give them credit for something they haven't followed through on.

Weak as water. They should have stuck with for at least a year.

 

[Neuromancer]

How much of this is AP speaking his mind, versus just repeating the company line?

I wonder sometimes. Seems to me we've heard almost this exact line once or twice before. Almost as if it's a prepared talking point.

I do agree with him, gamers weren't rational about it at all. MS never really got a chance with it. It was literally Steam DRM with the ability to trade in games.

Oh Steam has a 24 hour online check in? I must have a different version of Steam than you do. Because the Steam I've been using has an almost indefinite offline mode.

 

[shinra-bansho]

What I don't really get (or like) is how they can simultaneously say things like this; people didn't get our vision blah blah blah, people weren't ready.

And then simultaneously put out things like this infographic:

Pretending that the way the system is now after all of the 180s is how everything was designed from the start, rather than a huge reversal due to overwhelming consumer disdain and negative response.

 

[Finalizer]

Don't care if it's been quoted 50 times already. Contender for non-joke post of the year. Make it a sticky. Get him a tag. Put it on @NeoGAFBestPosts.

It's a great post for sure, but I still feel like this one would get my vote. Even if the subject in itself no longer has such immediate relevance since the DRM reversal months ago, the addressing of such ridiculous attitudes held at the time was just perfect. Wish I was a member at the time.

It was literally Steam

Can't have one of these threads without the good 'ole Steam comparison. Good to see we're checking all the boxes, anyway.

 

[grosvenor_92]

I've got no fucking clue. MS has collectively had its head up it's own ass for a while now. I want to critique this whole mess but frankly they've bungled this thing up so hard it's difficult to know where to start.

Albert, I know you read Gaf. You need to stop talking about this. Period. Full stop. No more. Shush.

Every time you or any other MS representative goes on the record to discuss the DRM policies you take an inherently anti consumer approach even if it's not your intent. Which at this point I'm going to assume it's your intent given the frequency with which you and your cohorts put this bungle on the consumer. You can't claim that consumers weren't ready for your vision of the future. We will never be ready for your vision of an all digital future because neither you nor anyone else at MS has never, not once, made it clear what exactly that vision is, or was, could be or will be.

Simply state that Microsoft misread the market. You operated in a vacuum under the assumption that your consumers wanted certain things that we didn't and now you're having to back track. That's fine. You guys made a mistake, it happens. It's time to reread your audience and try again. What you can't do is continue to allude to the fact that consumers weren't ready for your product. That's insulting, and it insinuates that you still have plans to fuck us over in the future. Consumers are naturally entitled. We have to be. We're paying large sums of cash, in this case a premium, for your product. We have certain expectations based on how you present that product and once that transaction is complete we're naturally entitled to complete ownership over that product. We also have expectations for your product based on competing products and services from other manufacturers. You do not operate within a vacuum and this relationship does not work in reverse. You are not entitled to my money.

The DRM strategy as we know it is beneficial to no one but Microsoft and its partners. This statement is true based on the information you have given us. You can claim that miscommunications and disorganization led to dissemination of inaccurate rumors, but the truth of the matter is that the only time you've detailed any consumer benefit was AFTER you shut the DRM down. We also had it on good insider authority that those claims regarding game sharing were complete bullshit and you're lying to us. All the "facts" you attempted to detail to consumers were completely contradictory during the period of time immediately following the initial announcement. Every further clarification only led to further confusion as your company continued to contradict itself. Repeatedly. These are not signs of miscommunications. These are signs of a critical lack of vision and fundamental misunderstanding of your target audience and it shows.

Right now Sony is assaulting you with precision strikes in the market that matters the most during launches, the core gamer audience. You need to buckle the fuck down and figure out what your product is, and who it's for. Right now I can't figure out who this product is for, or why anyone should want it. If it's for the hardcore gamer what are the benefits of paying for XBL over PSN+? You're entering a new generation and Sony is catching up significantly. Voice chat is no longer an appropriate answer. You've failed to clarify on the future of the Games With Gold promotion. At first it was temporary, now it's not? The offerings have been substandard when compared to PS+ over the period of time since it was first announced. Your product is no longer the preferred place to play multiplatform titles and you have virtually no first party resources to draw from. The last entry of your largest IP, halo, was not received well by it's audience and you've lost a chunk of your third party exclusive content over the past generation. As a consumer why should I believe that this won't happen again? Why should I, as a gamer, buy a Xbox One when judging by your track record you've nearly abandoned the 360 halfway through it's life and let a massive series like Mass Effect go multiplatform. It seems to me like this will probably happen again and most major titles I can just wait for.

Is this for the casual gamer? If so why aren't we seeing more kinect games? If so why is it the most expensive console on the market? Where is the content that's going to blow the casual market away? The original kinect was successful because it was a novel add on. A new way of interacting with a product you already had in your household. This is not the case for you any more. The original Wii took off because it was something entirely new, original, and extremely affordable. It was a novelty. This is also not the case for the Xbox One. The family/casual market, if there's much of one left, is going to Nintendo. They have the stronger family friendly IPs. You either need to focus on them or drop the kinect.

Is this a device for the mass market? Designed to integrate into television and media services? It can't be, once again it's the most expensive console no the market. It can't compete in price to something like the Apple TV, or even the Vita TV, a device that at least makes sense as a cheap complimentary purchase to a product a consumer will already own. If that's the case then why haven't we heard more about these television and film products? Where is the info on Remedy's new game that's supposedly blending video games and television entertainment? We know virtually nothing about how it plays, and we know virtually nothing about the television series. Are there other projects like that in the works? If it's designed to compliment a cable subscription why can't it function as a DVR? What benefit is there to a $500 black box that functions as little more than a glorified TV remote? Why aren't you partnering with cable providers? Why are the TV services so severely limited globally?

Microsoft, who is this product for? On the surface you seem to be approaching this device as a jack of all trades type of console. The problem is that the title of "jack of all trades" implies a level of competency in these services that is glaringly absent from your strategy. You lack vision. Period. Stop making excuses. Stop blaming the consumers.

Shut the fuck up, buckle the fuck down, figure out who you're targeting, and fix this.

/end rant

My man

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I do agree with him, gamers weren't rational about it at all. MS never really got a chance with it. It was literally Steam DRM with the ability to trade in games.

I don't buy this kind of rationale at all. For the sake of argument, let's say consumers did overreact to Microsoft's reveals, and we'll conclude that their vision was strong. Who's fault is it then that they weren't able to convince consumers of their message? They're not a small indie shop here that isn't used to fighting a tough PR campaign. We know that they have plenty of money to throw at PR and advertising. If their ideas were good, it was their job to convince us of that. I don't think it reflects well on them to handle everything in the fashion that they have and ultimately conclude that life isn't fair sometimes. As is, I see two possibilities: their vision was misguided, or they didn't fight hard enough for it.

 

[Imperfected]

Can't have one of these threads without the good 'ole Steam comparison. Good to see we're checking all the boxes, anyway.

The best part is how people willfully ignore the fact that, when Steam came into being, PC games had been practically run out of most retailers, anyway. You could maybe find an old Blizzard Battle Chest and a copy of Age of Empires next to Quicken in some ghettoized part of the store or on whichever shelf Babbages couldn't completely fill with cheap MadCatz controllers, but even specialty game retailers had almost completely abandoned the PC.

As if there's no difference between creating a marketplace for what had very much become niche products to continue to be sold, and trying to purposefully kill an existing marketplace where many people are already happy getting products.

 

[njean777]

People see their narrow world view as what everyone else experiences.

This is my problem with these peoples views. "Oh we are on our way to the digital future, may as well get ready for it". Yeah sure, tell that to somebody that has a 3mb connection, or worse. Tell that to somebody that lives in a region with only satellite internet. Tell that to somebody that has no access to internet and may have to use their phones/network providers (if they have a smart phone). Tell that to 2nd or even 3rd world countries. They have no clue what they are talking about, games are huge, they are not 100mb downloads like albums. Even movies are pretty small compared to a game. The digital future is not coming for games until 10-25 mbps is the norm,caps are bigger, and prices go down, which is way far off. Especially if the internet providers in the US keep operating the way they are now.

 

[Metal Gear?!]

And maybe you know, just maybe their service would have gotten better over time and evolved just like Steam which was a piece of shit that everyone hated when it was first released.

When you're last out of the gate you don't get years to catch up. This is why Windows Phone went nowhere as well, they were launching against the iPhone and Android that existed, not the iPhone and Android of 2007/2008.

 

[Freshmaker]

What I don't really get (or like) is how they can simultaneously say things like this; people didn't get our vision blah blah blah, people weren't ready.

I get the impression was that MS was thinking "Xbox is so respected as the defacto standard that they'll just have to take anything we serve them up and they'll have to like it because Xbox is video gaming."

Sony moved up the time table on them forcing them to do stuff before they'd really thought it out, but they figured "Hell, we're huge. Fuck it!"

They sailed blithely on ignoring the feedback until their preorders tanked. Then they went into panic mode.

 

[Htown]

And maybe you know, just maybe their service would have gotten better over time and evolved just like Steam which was a piece of shit that everyone hated when it was first released.

If Google Fiber only gave 56k download speeds, would that be okay because that's how the internet was when AOL was first released?

You compete with the market as it is, not as it was when it first started up.

 

[Amatsu]

I've been reading this thread all day at work and... it's just unfortunate. I can't say I know what's going through his head but, he misses the mark completely as to why people were upset in the first place.

It's a really stupid time for him to even be talking about this. Ah well, I can't say anything that hasn't already been accurately said by the rest of you.

 

[-PXG-]

You can still have an all digital platform without invasive DRM and forced online authentication, dipshits

Nothing about the old model was a benefit to the consumer. They were barriers, and unnecessary hoops that got in the way. Anything that makes something inaccessible and unusable isn't convenient and isn't user friendly.

Fuck off

 

[SolidChamp]

Holy fucking hell, MS. Why are you in a perpetual state of giving me reasons to hate you, and anyone who blindly follows you into YOUR stupid "vision of the future of gaming"?

Thank god this debacle is slowly starting to turn around the whole notion that Xbox is the "be all, end all of gaming".

Fucking time for a new "standard".

 

[Nekofrog]

I get the impression was that MS was thinking "Xbox is so respected as the defacto standard that they'll just have to take anything we serve them up and they'll have to like it because Xbox is video gaming."

Sony moved up the time table on them forcing them to do stuff before they'd really thought it out, but they figured "Hell, we're huge. Fuck it!"

They sailed blithely on ignoring the feedback until their preorders tanked. Then they went into panic mode.

You'd think they learned nothing from Sony's atrocious PS3 launch...

 

[TetraGenesis]

I don't see any reason to give them credit for something they haven't followed through on.

Hahaha, I know, right?? It'd be like:

I think people should realize that you were given the right to not only play games but play games with higher resolutions by linking your PS3 up to your Cell-powered microwave, fridge, and luxury footbath.

THIS IS SOMETHING ENTIRELY NEW for console game performance. You buy a game on 360, you have no Cell-link enhancement rights. You buy a game on Xbox One, until Kutaragi came along and give them the idea, there was no enhancing games with the Cloud.

The future is all external computation, at least Sony was trying to give you something in exchange.

Spoiler

A relaxing aquatic foot massage.

 

[Game Guru]

I've got no fucking clue. MS has collectively had its head up it's own ass for a while now. I want to critique this whole mess but frankly they've bungled this thing up so hard it's difficult to know where to start.

Albert, I know you read Gaf. You need to stop talking about this. Period. Full stop. No more. Shush.

Every time you or any other MS representative goes on the record to discuss the DRM policies you take an inherently anti consumer approach even if it's not your intent. Which at this point I'm going to assume it's your intent given the frequency with which you and your cohorts put this bungle on the consumer. You can't claim that consumers weren't ready for your vision of the future. We will never be ready for your vision of an all digital future because neither you nor anyone else at MS has never, not once, made it clear what exactly that vision is, or was, could be or will be.

Simply state that Microsoft misread the market. You operated in a vacuum under the assumption that your consumers wanted certain things that we didn't and now you're having to back track. That's fine. You guys made a mistake, it happens. It's time to reread your audience and try again. What you can't do is continue to allude to the fact that consumers weren't ready for your product. That's insulting, and it insinuates that you still have plans to fuck us over in the future. Consumers are naturally entitled. We have to be. We're paying large sums of cash, in this case a premium, for your product. We have certain expectations based on how you present that product and once that transaction is complete we're naturally entitled to complete ownership over that product. We also have expectations for your product based on competing products and services from other manufacturers. You do not operate within a vacuum and this relationship does not work in reverse. You are not entitled to my money.

The DRM strategy as we know it is beneficial to no one but Microsoft and its partners. This statement is true based on the information you have given us. You can claim that miscommunications and disorganization led to dissemination of inaccurate rumors, but the truth of the matter is that the only time you've detailed any consumer benefit was AFTER you shut the DRM down. We also had it on good insider authority that those claims regarding game sharing were complete bullshit and you're lying to us. All the "facts" you attempted to detail to consumers were completely contradictory during the period of time immediately following the initial announcement. Every further clarification only led to further confusion as your company continued to contradict itself. Repeatedly. These are not signs of miscommunications. These are signs of a critical lack of vision and fundamental misunderstanding of your target audience and it shows.

Right now Sony is assaulting you with precision strikes in the market that matters the most during launches, the core gamer audience. You need to buckle the fuck down and figure out what your product is, and who it's for. Right now I can't figure out who this product is for, or why anyone should want it. If it's for the hardcore gamer what are the benefits of paying for XBL over PSN+? You're entering a new generation and Sony is catching up significantly. Voice chat is no longer an appropriate answer. You've failed to clarify on the future of the Games With Gold promotion. At first it was temporary, now it's not? The offerings have been substandard when compared to PS+ over the period of time since it was first announced. Your product is no longer the preferred place to play multiplatform titles and you have virtually no first party resources to draw from. The last entry of your largest IP, halo, was not received well by it's audience and you've lost a chunk of your third party exclusive content over the past generation. As a consumer why should I believe that this won't happen again? Why should I, as a gamer, buy a Xbox One when judging by your track record you've nearly abandoned the 360 halfway through it's life and let a massive series like Mass Effect go multiplatform. It seems to me like this will probably happen again and most major titles I can just wait for.

Is this for the casual gamer? If so why aren't we seeing more kinect games? If so why is it the most expensive console on the market? Where is the content that's going to blow the casual market away? The original kinect was successful because it was a novel add on. A new way of interacting with a product you already had in your household. This is not the case for you any more. The original Wii took off because it was something entirely new, original, and extremely affordable. It was a novelty. This is also not the case for the Xbox One. The family/casual market, if there's much of one left, is going to Nintendo. They have the stronger family friendly IPs. You either need to focus on them or drop the kinect.

Is this a device for the mass market? Designed to integrate into television and media services? It can't be, once again it's the most expensive console no the market. It can't compete in price to something like the Apple TV, or even the Vita TV, a device that at least makes sense as a cheap complimentary purchase to a product a consumer will already own. If that's the case then why haven't we heard more about these television and film products? Where is the info on Remedy's new game that's supposedly blending video games and television entertainment? We know virtually nothing about how it plays, and we know virtually nothing about the television series. Are there other projects like that in the works? If it's designed to compliment a cable subscription why can't it function as a DVR? What benefit is there to a $500 black box that functions as little more than a glorified TV remote? Why aren't you partnering with cable providers? Why are the TV services so severely limited globally?

Microsoft, who is this product for? On the surface you seem to be approaching this device as a jack of all trades type of console. The problem is that the title of "jack of all trades" implies a level of competency in these services that is glaringly absent from your strategy. You lack vision. Period. Stop making excuses. Stop blaming the consumers.

Shut the fuck up, buckle the fuck down, figure out who you're targeting, and fix this.

/end rant

Give this man a title. This should've been the first post and had Microsoft had someone like this man pointing out just how stupid their ideas were, Microsoft would not be in the mess it is in right now. As someone who owns 200 some-odd ebooks and 300 or so digital games, I'm not a person who has rejected the digital future. However, I reject the digital future which Microsoft wanted. You do not make a digital service like Steam, iTunes, or Amazon by killing off stuff like GFWL and making systems which are not backwards compatible with previous ones.

 

[lifeexpectancy]

Discs: Not so. Ever heard of bit-rot?

Lasers: Wow, that sounds like fun. First of all, there will be no parts in 15-20 years for current optical-based drives. Second of all, I doubt there will be "replacement consoles.'

Really? No parts in 15-20 years? You can still buy parts to repair electronics from the dawn of the electronic age. You can still buy parts to repair televisions from the 50s. Granted the parts are scarce but they're out there. Saying you won't be able to repair an XB1/PS4/360/PS3/OG Xbox/PS2/(anything else that uses 'current optical-based drives') in 15-20 years is massive hyperbole and not even remotely true.