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Penny Arcade 11/30/2007 Jeff Gerstmann fired from Gamespot, allegedly for K&L review

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nightowl

Member
I don't suppose a special segment could be recorded and added to the beginning of the podcast?

I know I'd personally love to hear the thoughts and insights of all my favorite gaming news personalities (1UPYours, The Brodeo, N'Gai, etc) weigh in on the implications, etc.

How surreal this has been and it shows no signs of stopping soon.
 

skip

Member
nightowl said:
I don't suppose a special segment could be recorded and added to the beginning of the podcast?

I know I'd personally love to hear the thoughts and insights of all my favorite gaming news personalities (1UPYours, The Brodeo, N'Gai, etc) weigh in on the implications, etc.

How surreal this has been and it shows no signs of stopping soon.

what jeff said -- when we know more, we'll be able to comment more.
 

Link

The Autumn Wind
nightowl said:
I don't suppose a special segment could be recorded and added to the beginning of the podcast?
They'd probably want to wait until more facts come in anyway.
 

SantaC

Member
and anyone who complains at TP's 8.8 review should think again. That game deserved lower, Jeff was atleast almost money on it...(and i am a nin fan)
 

Pre

Member
Yeah, Garnett needs to get the crew together and record another segment today. They don't need to wait a week to address this.
 

nightowl

Member
The topic could be discussed without the specifics as the facts are still murky. Having said that, of course do what you feel is best with your podcasts. Just a fan looking forward to your content. :)
 

Crushed

Fry Daddy
DenogginizerOS said:
Yes, but Kotaku? Since when did they become the Edward R. Murrow of gaming news on this board?
To be fair, Kotaku usually isn't inaccurate. It's just extremely slow and reports on non-news worthy things ("Newflash: Ocarinas are real instruments," "Hentai of Tifa exists").
 

Kintaro

Worships the porcelain goddess
Pre said:
Yeah, Garnett needs to get the crew together and record another segment today. They don't need to wait a week to address this.

The last thing they would want to do is re-record, blow shit out of proportion, turn out to be wrong, and look like GIGANTIC dickholes in the process and lose even more of their own credibility because they didn't wait for the facts.

Stop looking for people to blow up for your entertainment and start waiting for the "story" to sort itself out.
 

Variable

Member
Kintaro said:
The last thing they would want to do is re-record, blow shit out of proportion, turn out to be wrong, and look like GIGANTIC dickholes in the process and lose even more of their own credibility because they didn't wait for the facts.

Stop looking for people to blow up for your entertainment and start waiting for the "story" to sort itself out.

Kind of like what NeoGaf is doing at the moment?
 

Kintaro

Worships the porcelain goddess
Variable said:
Kind of like what NeoGaf is doing at the moment?

:D This story is a dream come true for GAF, whether it's true or false. Either way, the people who believe sites are tainted will always have ammo, this will continue to seep it's way into review threads, and more.
 

nightowl

Member
Kintaro said:
The last thing they would want to do is re-record, blow shit out of proportion, turn out to be wrong, and look like GIGANTIC dickholes in the process and lose even more of their own credibility because they didn't wait for the facts.

Agreed, talking specifics without facts would be a mistake.
 

DenogginizerOS

BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
To be fair, Kotaku usually isn't inaccurate. It's just extremely slow and reports on non-news worthy things ("Newflash: Ocarinas are real instruments," "Hentai of Tifa exists").
Not sure how long you have lurked here but the last site I would see GAF use to base a protest on would be Kotaku. At one point, you couldn't utter their name as a source without fear of being banned. In fact, the site was once banned. I am not disputing the merits of Kotaku or Penny Arcade, but I don't recall GAF taking a stance like they are taking now, and doing so based on Kotaku and Penny Arcade is surprising. Makes me think people are talking off the record behind the scenes. Otherwise, this is a pretty long limb to be walking out on over a rumor. I don't have a problem with the protest as long as the rumor is actually fact, but that hasn't happened, so I find this all filled with irony and amusement.
 
SantaC said:
and anyone who complains at TP's 8.8 review should think again. That game deserved lower, Jeff was atleast almost money on it...(and i am a nin fan)

Perhaps I'm missing something, but am I supposed to accept something that I don't agree with? What's the appropriate reaction?
 

Imm0rt4l

Member
smh @ this bullshit

gamespot-logo.gif


1996-2007
 

Evlar

Banned
Kintaro said:
:D This story is a dream come true for GAF, whether it's true or false. Either way, the people who believe sites are tainted will always have ammo, this will continue to seep it's way into review threads, and more.
Look at this from the guy who claims to have worked on the K&L ads: http://www.forumopolis.com/showpost....0&postcount=52


This is what I came here to say.

I worked on the K&L ads personally, and I had a front-row seat to the whole debacle.

The ads were originally supposed to point to the GS review page, as they sometimes do. When the review came out, Eidos was understandably upset, and yes -- they did threaten to pull the whole campaign -- but they eventually simmered down and kept the campaign. They had us change the clickthrough URL from the GS review to the official site, but other than that little changed.

The ads went up and the Eidos brouhaha was settled over two weeks ago. Jeff got fired yesterday. Furthermore, I'd heard a few people tell that he'd already been skating on thin ice for "unprofessional reviews and review practices." I don't know much about that, though, so I can't say one way or the other.

My gut tells me that he got canned for larger reasons. Maybe the Eidos debacle was part of it -- I don't know. But I sincerely doubt that Eidos made Gamespot fire him. CNET doesn't kowtow to its advertisers, and I've more than once seen the higher-ups turn away big advertising dollars for the sake of the company's integrity.

I think the whole thing is likely a combination of factors, the biggest being poor timing. Gerst gets canned just two weeks after the K&L incident, so people blame it on that (especially when backed by PA, the gaming journalism equivalent to The Daily Show).

It'll be interesting to see how everything pans out, but I'm definitely gonna keep an open mind about it for now.

What do you think about the portion I highlighted? Because in my opinion there is no way of interpreting that as anything other than pay-for-points.
 
SantaC said:
and anyone who complains at TP's 8.8 review should think again. That game deserved lower, Jeff was atleast almost money on it...(and i am a nin fan)

What is wrong with you people? Jeff created some mindless Zelda hating army. Ok sorry not the place for this. :p
 
DenogginizerOS said:
Not sure how long you have lurked here but the last site I would see GAF use to base a protest on would be Kotaku. At one point, you couldn't utter their name as a source without fear of being banned. In fact, the site was once banned. I am not disputing the merits of Kotaku or Penny Arcade, but I don't recall GAF taking a stance like they are taking now and doing so based on Kotaku and Penny Arcade is surprising. Makes me think people are talking off the record behind the scenes.

Of course people are talking off the record. That's where all those "anonymous tipsters" and "insider sources" come from, and is likely where the PA people (and later, the "prominent blogging sites") got their info. With a scandal like this which corporations would rather brush under a rug, "off the record" sources are the only way to get the truth.
 
To be fair, Kotaku usually isn't inaccurate. It's just extremely slow and reports on non-news worthy things ("Newflash: Ocarinas are real instruments," "Hentai of Tifa exists").
Oh but they are. They've posted a lot of incorrect assumptions in their time and they like to post just about anything as long as it's sensational.

I'm surprised they have yet to be banned again, seeing how unprofessional they usually are.
 

nightowl

Member
MiamiWesker said:
What is wrong with you people? Jeff created some mindless Zelda hating army. Ok sorry not the place for this. :p

I'm guessing in some circles 8.8 isn't hate, it may be more akin to objectivity.

Just a guess though.
 

beelzebozo

Jealous Bastard
pxleyes said:
Never was one for entirely loving the review system, but if this is all true then gaming journalism just took a huge blow.

yeah the way advertising has begun to encroach on the gaming discussion is disturbing

this comment brought to you by carl's junior, home of the six dollar burger. BIG BIG BEEF
 

Evlar

Banned
DenogginizerOS said:
I missed the highlighted part that connects their frustration with the review to his being fired?
And I'm missing why I SHOULDN'T be outraged over pay-for-points, whether Gerstmann was fired as a result of it or not.
 
This sucks. Jeff Gerstmann was one of their best personalities. Maybe that is why Ryan was so angry sounding on the podcast this week.

I wonder who will host "On the Spot" now. It'll be interesting to watch Tournament TV today to see how everyone reacts.
 

pxleyes

Banned
beelzebozo said:
yeah the way advertising has begun to encroach on the gaming discussion is disturbing

this comment brought to you by carl's junior, home of the six dollar burger. BIG BIG BEEF
That is essentially what is happening here. If They want that kind of advertisements so bad then they should just start setting up ad "pages" on sites like Gamespot. Think of it like those special advertisement sections in magazines. They LOOK like real pages...but..Ooo...we paid for that. Wooopsie!
 

skip

Member
DenogginizerOS said:
But...



So, what were you referring to here? The comic? The subject of the comic? The reaction to the comic?

it was an immediate emotional reaction, because even though I didn't know how true it was, I knew in my heart that something like this was actually possible. maybe even inevitable, given the state of the games industry/press these days.
 

DenogginizerOS

BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
DarciisFyer said:
Of course people are talking off the record. That's where all those "anonymous tipsters" and "insider sources" come from, and is likely where the PA people (and later, the "prominent blogging sites") got their info. With a scandal like this which corporations would rather brush under a rug, "off the record" sources are the only way to get the truth.
As long as these anonymous sources and tipsters are being confirmed by other anonymous sources and tipsters, then there isn't a problem. But saying you work at Gamespot and that your buddy got fired for writing a bad review does not equal fact unless you have first-hand knowledge of the terms for temination. Saying Jeff was fired for this could be just a guess and hence why it was classsified as a rumor. If more sites had this confirmed by multiple sources, we would see this "story" moved to the news section of sites and not the "rumor" sections.
 

beelzebozo

Jealous Bastard
i almost wonder if a removal of game-related advertising in general on gaming websites wouldn't help alleviate some of the problem. granted, i'm not wild about the idea of seeing carl's jr. ads replace ads for any game being advertised, but it would eliminate problems like this since gamespot doesn't have to review the new portabello mushroom burger, with caramelized onions and the patented carl's jr. special sauce that you all will find irresistibly delicious
 

DenogginizerOS

BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
The Sphinx said:
And I'm missing why I SHOULDN'T be outraged over pay-for-points, whether Gerstmann was fired as a result of it or not.
Where is the proof of this? They are mad that their game got a bad review and the huge ads they have are on a site linking people to the bad review. But, ultimately, they didn't pull the ads nor was the score changed.
 
Ehhhhh man. I dunno guys. I want to get out my torch and pitchfork and join everybody but something doesn't feel right here. CNET's timing is careless and stupid either way but if it's so obvious to Everyday Internet Forum Guy just how much sustained damage they would have to endure for such a move...wouldn't it be obvious to them as well?

I can see a "That's it, this is the last time" scenario being more credible in the end.

Gonna sleep on this one, see what develops by Monday. If it still looks as much like corruption as it did at first glance I will gladly join the mob.
 

dock

Member
The 'hotspot' podcast actually turned me OFF gamespot in a big way. Their attitudes were repulsive and they seemed to share a single mindset rather than having a range of personalities. The music and the wrestling style introduction added to the whole thing. I developed an opinion of Gamespot as a bunch of whooping and yelling xbox/online obsessed assholes, who complained about the idea of games being played in the same room and it seemed like every game they looked at was being pigeon holed into an idea of what a game should be.

Since then, every review on Gamespot has made a lot of sense. It's like I think "well, those sorts of people WOULD think that about THAT game".

I find the 1up podcasts to be really fantastic and go a long way towards humanizing the reviews on their site and in their magazines, not to mention being entertaining in their own rights and well produced.


I really don't like Jeff.G's reviews, and I can't relate to him as a gamer. I think it might be a good time to give Gamespot a full reset, but it seems impossible given they have such a messy database of back content.
 

DenogginizerOS

BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
If this rumor is true, Gerstmann is the only one who can confirm this. I cannot go the press and disclose the terms of termination if I fire an employee, so I would wager that Cnet or Gamespot cannot do this as well. If Gerstmann truly took one for the team, then I doubt he would sign an agreement that says he can't talk about this (unless it was signed when he was hired that he cannot disclose terms of his termination) and he will soon be singing his story to someone.
 

Kintaro

Worships the porcelain goddess
Here's PA's take:

It's been a couple weeks discussing reviews and reviewers around here, but somewhere along the way I neglected to mention that their job is essentially impossible. The 7-9 scale they toil under is largely the result of an uneasy peace between the business and editorial wings of the venue. No matter what score they give it, high or low, they're reviled equally by the online chorus. Apparently, even when they do it right they're doing it wrong.

Jeff Gerstmann is no stranger to controversy. In general terms, Gamespot can be relied upon to give high-profile games scores which are slightly lower than their counterparts elsewhere. It's almost as though there is an algorithm in place there to correct the heady rush associated with cracking open an anticipated new title. Gerstmann's 8.8 review of Twilight Princess cemented his reputation as a criminal renegade with no law but his own, even though he gave the game an 8.9 - a nine, essentially - out of ten.

I will tell you the Gerstmann Story as we heard it. Management claimed to have spoken to Jeff about his "tone" before, and no doubt it was this tone that created tensions between their editorial content, the direction of the site, and the carefully crafted relationships that allowed Gamespot to act as an engine of revenue creation. After Gerstmann's savage flogging of **** & *****, a game whose marketing investment on Gamespot alone reached into the hundreds of thousands, Eidos (we are told) pulled hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of future advertising from the site.

Management has another story, of course: management always has another story. But it's the firm belief internally that Jeff was sacrificed. And it had to be Jeff, at least, we believe, precisely because of his stature and longevity. It made for a dramatic public execution that left the editorial staff in disarray. Would that it were only about the 6.0 - at least then you'd know how to score something if you wanted to keep your Goddamned job. No, this was worse: the more nebulous "tone" would be the guide. I assume it was designed to terrify them.

For Gabriel, this tale proves out his darkest suspicions. People believe things like this anyway, but they don't know it, and the shift from intuitive to objective knowledge is startling. I think it rarely gets to this point. The apparatus is very tight: there are layers of editorial control that can massage the score, even when the text tells a different tale. A more junior reviewer might have seen their **** & ***** review streamlined by this process, divested of its worrisome angles and overall troubling shape. It was Jeff Gerstmann's role high in the site's infrastructure that allowed his raw editorial content to pierce the core of the business.

(CW)TB out.

It's clear the side he takes (anti-management), but if this was how it went down, it's pretty much like I thought. And to tell the truth, I don't have much of a problem with it. There's still more I need to hear though to firmly make up my mind.
 

neojubei

Will drop pants for Sony.
Kbsmoker said:
Funny how he doesn't say anything about the PULLED video review.


I was going to say that. If Cnet or gamespot was upset with Jeff, why pull the video review? There isn't enough Damage Control to help gamespot, they've dugged their grave.
 
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