-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Penny Arcade 11/30/2007 Jeff Gerstmann fired from Gamespot, allegedly for K&L review
- Thread starter mosaic
- Start date
- Status
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Thanks.Eric WK said:
Perhaps it wasn't the review but maybe Eidos and Cnet inquired about the review and Gerstmann's response to them is what got him fired?
firehawk12
Subete no aware
http://www.forumopolis.com/showpost.php?p=1869780&postcount=52
A response from someone who made the ads:
A response from someone who made the ads:
itsinmyveins
Gets to pilot the crappy patrol labors
firehawk12 said:
Funny thing that I do rely more on TDS for less "spinned" news then, no joke :lol
Wow, what a terrible thing to read first thing this morning. FUCK CNET for this and if EIDOS was involved, fuck them too.
I was considering buying K&L at some point, but I will no longer do so.
I will also look into cancelling any subscription I had to Gamespot.
GAF is pretty large. Perhaps it can influence other sites as well...
I was considering buying K&L at some point, but I will no longer do so.
I will also look into cancelling any subscription I had to Gamespot.
GAF is pretty large. Perhaps it can influence other sites as well...
Zenith said:
Are you talking about **** and *****? because if you are talking about **** and *****, you have poor taste let me tell you, the game is garbage.
You can let your collateral and Heat nostalgia drive your experience, but that doesn't stop the game from having broken cover mechanincs, crappy story, shitty A.I, shitty squad gameplay, shitty endings, shitty graphics, the most laughable shitty car chase this side of Blacksite Area 51.
It's just crappy man.
Opus Angelorum
Member
dark10x said:
It's #1 of all topics on Digg at the minute, it's spreading.
Nice. That's good news.Opus Angelorum said:
This just shows how f*cked up the industry is.
I know fans of certain titles were always upset by his reviews and attitude, but damn it, I thought it added a lot to the site. He could be damn funny.
Gamespot has gone to hell over the last year. No Greg, no Rich, no Jeff, and it sounds like Ryan Davis will be leaving soon enough. Who the fuck is left? The site is done.
Hopefully Jeff turns up somewhere else doing something similar.
DangerStepp
Member
That is pretty weak if he was indeed terminated over doing his job, which is giving objective, opinionated reviews of games.
Hopefully this isn't a trend that will follow suit with other editors of the enthusiast press.
If so, then we're truly experiencing repercussions of the corporate hammer and the power of the dollar.
What a way to find out, BTW. In a Penny Arcade comic of all things....
Hopefully this isn't a trend that will follow suit with other editors of the enthusiast press.
If so, then we're truly experiencing repercussions of the corporate hammer and the power of the dollar.
What a way to find out, BTW. In a Penny Arcade comic of all things....
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Gerstmann's job is to be a critic. For years, depending on who you ask, he has done a pretty good job writing reviews. However, what we all don't know is what was happening behind the scenes. If Eidos and Cnet fired Gerstmann for doing his job as a reviewer, then JG might have a case for litigation. However, if his actions after the review came out were inappropriate, then he likely was fired for good reason. We don't know yet and I think it would be wise to not take a side in this until all the facts come out. If Eidos and Cnet's product name is hurt by this incident and it turns out that the review score was NOT the reason he was fired, then Eidos and Cnet may have grounds for a suit against PA for defamation. I am sure that the folks at PA are aware of this and makes me lean more towards believing the review was the reason, but again, until there is clarification, the villification of Eidos and Cnet may be premature. Lets not forget that there are many employees that work for Cnet and Eidos that could be negatively impacted by this. Their jobs are just as important as JG's job.
honestly the only real reviews you can trust are the reviews of your fellow gamers on forums. but even then it's tricky with all the viral marketers out there. :\ bottom line, rent games before you buy and confirm if you like the game yourself. i definitely see all these big review sites giving games good reviews if they get big advertisement dollars from publishers. most of these sites are owned by big corporations like news corp and getting money is all that matters in the end and ethics be dammed as long as the stock holders see some nice profits from these sites.
ParticleReality
Banned
That guy is fucked.
Even if acknowledged upfront, bias has no place in a recview targeted to a diverse pool of discriminating consumers. Anyway, if this true, ganespot has squandered all of its credibility. Sure, they can remain as a site that COVERS the industry, but their reviews should never again be looked upon as credible. In fact, and I know this is a decision that the administration is probably deliberating over, Gamespot reviews should be BANNED IMMEDIATELY.Hitokage said:
FunkyMunkey said:
I'd have to agree with both of you. I mean the rumoured reason for his firing is total shit if true but lets not turn Gerts into some sort of martr, he's probably one of the worst gaming journos I've ever seen, and no, not just because of the 8.8 review. I'm sorry when anyone loses their job, but some of his writing beggars belief that he's even in the business. Longevity doesn't make one respectable.
I've been saying for over a year how the site has been going down the toilet and been criticised,ignored or silenced for that opinion on gamespot itself. It's funny to see everyone now turning around (on the gamespot forums themselves) saying things like **** game**** or Game**** can go to hel etc etc.
I doubt it. Whenever a person is fired from any place, coworkers shouldn't talk about the reasons. In fact, where I work, if I talk about why someone was fired -- even if the person who was fired pissed off my bosses and was a total tool -- and my bosses find out about it, I'll be fired myself. I'm not even supposed to say that they were fired. I have to say that they "are not working here, anymore."nestea said:
LordAndrew
Member
Fuck! This is bullshit!
I hope other CNET employees follow suit and get the hell out of there.
I hope other CNET employees follow suit and get the hell out of there.
I've bagged on Jeff on this forum before (even far enough to get banned for it), but getting fired over a review is just bush league. All that does is throw in credibility gamespot may have into question and (to me) PROVES once and for all that moneyhats DO influence game scores.
antoniogaud
Member
Although I was ambivalent about Jeff when I first started watching the Gamespot podcasts, I grew to like and trust his opinions over time. I just watched his review of **** and ***** and - although i haven't played it yet - he seemed to backup his viewpoints with enough examples to be credible.
It seemed obvious that Jeff was making some sort of statement with the review, perhaps intentionally using a tone that undermined the already low score he assigned the game. Perhaps he was warned not to do so beforehand, and was subsequently fired for carrying through with his 'agenda'.
If that is true, then it creates a level of complexity in the situation (Are employees always supposed to follow what their bosses say? Does Jeff qualify as a journalist?) but in the end, if his job is to give his opinion on a specific game, then he shouldn't be fired for doing so. If his job is to represent the company line, that maybe (!) the company had a right to fire him for going against their directives, but I doubt this is the case.
As I said, I like Jeff and will continue to follow him wherever he goes. In hindsight, this situation is perhaps the best thing that has ever happened to his career.
It seemed obvious that Jeff was making some sort of statement with the review, perhaps intentionally using a tone that undermined the already low score he assigned the game. Perhaps he was warned not to do so beforehand, and was subsequently fired for carrying through with his 'agenda'.
If that is true, then it creates a level of complexity in the situation (Are employees always supposed to follow what their bosses say? Does Jeff qualify as a journalist?) but in the end, if his job is to give his opinion on a specific game, then he shouldn't be fired for doing so. If his job is to represent the company line, that maybe (!) the company had a right to fire him for going against their directives, but I doubt this is the case.
As I said, I like Jeff and will continue to follow him wherever he goes. In hindsight, this situation is perhaps the best thing that has ever happened to his career.
Dreadful, really. There seems to be two conflicting sides to this story at the moment however, so we shouldn't completely pass judgement just because Penny Arcade says so. If PA are correct, then hopefully this'll open people's eyes to the lack of integrity in videogame reviews. This could be a turning point for the future of reviews, IMO. Either the community kicks up a total shitstorm (which seems to be happening) and integrity returns to reviewing, or the money men control sites.
That said, I had to chuckle at GameSpot's frontpage at the moment. In the top right corner... "On TechRepublic: 10 illegal job interview questions".
That said, I had to chuckle at GameSpot's frontpage at the moment. In the top right corner... "On TechRepublic: 10 illegal job interview questions".
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
What percentage of developers and publishers engage in pre-review deals with websites and magazines? Don't most if not all of them use ad revenue as a negotiating tool for exclusivity status? Is this hurting the integrity of the journalists who engage in this behavior as much as the company that is offering the money? Perhaps Gerstmann looked at himself in the mirror and just got fed up with what he saw. If Gerstmann used K&L as his foothold for a protest against the practice of ad revenue for good reviews, then yes, he will be judged positively by gamers who know him for taking a stance. But lets not assume that Eidos is the only company that does this and that Gerstmann is the only reviewer who is disgusted by it. The whole industry needs an enema to cleanse itself of this practice. If Eidos and Gamespot are hurt by this, I am pretty sure the whole practice of payola and financed favoritism will go the way of the Dodo. Unfortunately, I am inclined to not bet on it.
BravoSuperStar
Member
I enjoyed Jeff's reviews, this is a shame. I think he had some anti-Nintendo issues, but I like someone that doesn't hand out 9's at the drop of a hat.
From the Euro side of things Gi.Biz has their article about this sordid affair up and running, and they confirm somebody else is gone from Gamespot, though it is not clear at this time if it is related.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=31120
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=31120
Yes. Hence why people complained about the 800 dollar Halo packages(Which BTW, some peopl;e claimed to be fine with that. I guess someone has to neglect the moneyhat and get fired before everyone gets on board about this practice). It's a not so subtle nudge saying "give my game a good score." Same thing with sponsored launch centers. In realy journalism, this is not allowed by newspapaers and magazines(if gifts are allowed, they are usually very small), neglecting the ethical issues. The reason is obvious. It's a bad practice that should be stopped. There should definitely be limits on the way that these things are carried out. Otherwise, you will get slanted scopres (like what supposedly Jeff was supposed to do).DenogginizerOS said:
I guess this really shows what some have been claiming all along. The game review system is completely broken, and apparently bribes determine scores.
To all game journalists that have participated in this practice: FUCK YOU. You are doing a dandy job making sure no one ever takes games as an art form and sees them as a lesser form of entertainment.
Kabuki Waq
Member
why would Jeff take Greg K's place if he was on "thin Ice" for a while.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
It could be that Jeff G was the most recognized of the Gamespot editors and that despite the love/hate relationship he had with gamers, he had that relationship with enough gamers to warrant the decision. Media companies go through this with shock-jocks. Constantly balancing ad revenue with the appeal of a controversial figure that draws people to their radio show, or tv show, or, in this case, website. Gerstmann has always been a polarizing figure (although it normally occurred with games that had a mix of high and low scores). I think he could have been on thin ice but still worthy of keeping around due to his appeal.Kabuki Waq said:
Madman said:
Actually Gamespot is one of the better sites as far as that's concerned. The guy who get's the VIP PR treatment usually isn't the one who reviews the game.
That's basically superior to how some other sites handle it i.e. 1up. When editors love to drop names of developers they schmooze with regularly or the events they have participated in, even though it's kind of fun to hear, I find it hard to imagine that not influencing your review of a game.
Kabuki Waq
Member
DenogginizerOS said:
he wasnt just kept around i think this was a promotion.
Also he is the FACE of GS you just dont fire those type of people. They would have phased him out or something. Not something out of the blue like this.
singularity
Member
Grecco said:
That's specious. For all you know the ad buy could have just run its course. The game's been out for a while, generally advertising dries up at this point unless it's a success.
disappeared
Banned
Shard said:
It's true. There's a piece in his GS blog.
- Status