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[Safe Bet]

I would too, but I honestly find it funny and want him to continue.

I am sorry and if it results in a vacation for me so be it, but..

Its not right blatant insults like this which serve no purpose other than to draw an emotional reaction from the recipeient and sway the audience through the use of false rhetoric, don't catch bans.

Its bullshit people get banned for biting but not for baiting...

/rational emotinal response

 

[RBH]

Yeesh, bloodbath in here.

- Dante
- TheRagnCajun
- Open Source
- Kestastrophe
- Ynos Yrros
- polyh3dron
- dfyb
- PepsimanVsJoe
- levious
- Solidsnakex
- mintylurb
- GeoramA
- WinFonda
- BeeDog
- LiquidSwords
- _tetsuo_
- VALIS
- Azrael
- daCuk
- tfur
- Druff
- LSM256


TWENTY-TWO PEOPLE BANNED IN THIS THREAD. Holy fuck.

Well done mods.

GAF has been improved significantly since the addition of the new mods.

 

[Twig]

Cheese is art.

 

[Vinci]

I am sorry and if it results in a vacation, but..

Its complete bullshit blatant isnsults like this which serve no purpose other than to draw an emotional reaction from the recipeient, don't catch bans.

Dude, I'm teasing you. You're allowed to think whatever you want of the series; I really have no problem with that. It's the elitism involved in invoking the term 'high art,' thereby trying to make any criticisms towards the franchise indicative of being unsophisticated or uncultured. My other comment was to point out that, yes, everything garners the same reaction: Some people like it (whatever 'it' is) while others don't. It's not a symptom or indication of 'high art' anymore than some people loving Britney Spears music or hating it is.

 

[Safe Bet]

Dude, I'm teasing you.

No, you're baiting, I'm biting, and you damn well know it.

BTW

There are rules to 'high art' and it has nothing to do with popularity or audience acceptence it has to do with artist intent and messege.

 

[skybaby]

23...

 

[firex]

What was hard about shooting (or the controls in general) in MGS2 (or 1, or 3)? I haven't been in too many MGS-based threads I guess, as this one is the first I've heard various complaints.

I'm perfectly fine with RE's controls too, and I remember as a kid RPG's on NES and SNES usually got low marks on 'play control' for some reason too.

The only thing I've had a problem controlling in MGS is doing the CQC stuff in 3; otherwise I've been perfectly fine controlling the games.

For me? Having to completely mash down the square button to fire off a single round. Because of the stupid "must use pressure sensitive buttons" gimmick Kojima had to implement for the controls, it made it hard to fire a few shots and run compared to MGS1... or MGS3!

 

[SovanJedi]

23...

24, actually.

 

[Vinci]

No, you're baiting, I'm biting, and you damn well know it.

If you want to continue thinking that, you're welcome to, but it's hardly the truth. I found your comments about 'high art' entertaining. I don't want anyone banned or in trouble with the mods. Hell, by having this conversation I'm potentially opening myself up to a ban. Something I don't want.

BTW

There are rules to 'high art' and it has nothing to do with popularity or audience acceptence it has to do with artist intent and messege.

Intent and message are part of 'high art,' that's true. Just as Finnegans Wake is attempting to do something, 'high art' suffers potentially from execution. Intent and message are meaningless given they are not conveyed well. Finnegans Wake, for all its complexity and cleverness, is still not understood by most people - and this leads to it either being showcased as 'high art' in literature or as nonsense. I guess, in that respect, MGS might qualify, but the confusion doesn't result from the intent or message of MGS but, rather, it's unnecessary cluttering of that message. Like the X-Files, it appears to suffer from a lack of general cohesiveness, making the message it's attempting to get across so muddy that even many people who've played through the entire series still aren't completely sure what its message is.

And you're free to look at it and claim it 'high art,' I suppose, but it's also a way of passing judgment on others by stating that they don't 'get it' -- thereby suggesting that it's something wrong with them and not with the way in which the message was conveyed.

EDIT: But if that's not what you're attempting to do, then I suggest we let this little disagreement go and keep the number of people banned in this thread to 24.

EDIT #2: I wonder if Tycho and Gabe are watching this thread and going, "Holy shit, I think we just broke a record or something!" :lol

 

[-WindYoshi-]

Man, GAF sure can be retarded sometimes. People get banned for expressing their dislike of a comic, in a civilized manner no doubt?

Now what, do I get banned for questioning the law?

 

[besada]

Man, GAF sure can be retarded sometimes. People get banned for expressing their dislike of a comic, in a civilized manner no doubt?

Now what, do I get banned for questioning the law?

Go back and pay attention. The vast majority got banned for suggesting a conspiracy or smear campaign. And not that politely. But if you're looking for a ban, this is the thread for you.

 

[SovanJedi]

Man, GAF sure can be retarded sometimes. People get banned for expressing their dislike of a comic, in a civilized manner no doubt?

Now what, do I get banned for questioning the law?

It's not like that at all. From my understanding this has pretty much been a long-running conspiracy theory amongst the crazies that Penny-Arcade is out to get Sony, the PS3 and its fans ever since Microsoft invited them to play some of their games - and when their latest comic and writeup expresses their dislike for what is far and away Playstation 3's biggest game release yet, it kind of exploded from there.

It's not specifically about the comic itself, since a lot of people have said it's not that good (and I myself don't consider it their best, partly because I don't understand it, granted), simply about uptight fanboys.

 

[Coverly]

There are rules to 'high art' and it has nothing to do with popularity or audience acceptence it has to do with artist intent and messege.

You know it's hard enough getting people to seriously consider games as just art and here we are talking about them as high art. It's like we skipped a step or two.

mgs1:loved it
msg2:my fav of the series, just all kinds of awesome. didn't mind Rayden either.
msg3:mixed feelings on it.

If you're putting msg2 as high art, then what does that say about msg4 and product placement? There are rules, right?

 

[Scottlarock]

24, actually.

I think its acutally 25 now.

 

[Lakitu]

I don't get the strip. Maybe P-A is too clever for me. I liked a few of their older ones though.

 

[Vinci]

I think its acutally 25 now.

Hmm. Safe Bet was banned? Why? Was it something in this thread or something in another? I quite honestly didn't want him banned; I was actually enjoying the discussion with him.

Spoiler

I swear I'm not being sarcastic.

I don't get the strip. Maybe P-A is too clever for me. I liked a few of their older ones though.

High art.

Spoiler

I know, that was wrong, but it was just ... it was the best response. I really am not happy that Safe Bet was banned if it was due to this thread or the discussion we had.

 

[twinturbo2]

I thought it was chuckle worthy. Oh well, I'm picking up the LE later today, I hope it's as good as everyone says it is...

 

[Speevy]

I would say something, but it looks like a minefield in here.

 

[hulot]

What was hard about shooting (or the controls in general) in MGS2 (or 1, or 3)? I haven't been in too many MGS-based threads I guess, as this one is the first I've heard various complaints.

I'm perfectly fine with RE's controls too, and I remember as a kid RPG's on NES and SNES usually got low marks on 'play control' for some reason too.

The only thing I've had a problem controlling in MGS is doing the CQC stuff in 3; otherwise I've been perfectly fine controlling the games.

MGS1 had great controls for what it set out to do. MGS2, with only a few improvements was pushing it and MGS3: Subsistence camera fix just proved that the controls hadn't really evolved since the PSX game. But at least the pressure sensitive buttons worked in 3. Try not wasting a bullet when you have your pistol out or aiming with an automatic in MGS2, nigh impossible. Then try to hold someone hostage while pulling out a gun without letting him go (hold O to grab, hold X to pull out gun?!). Thankfully, 4 has indeed fixed all these issues so I'm happy.

And the dead won't be missed, most were on my ignore list

Just as Finnegans Wake is attempting to do something, 'high art' suffers potentially from execution. Intent and message are meaningless given they are not conveyed well. Finnegans Wake, for all its complexity and cleverness, is still not understood by most people - and this leads to it either being showcased as 'high art' in literature or as nonsense.

Spoiler

In which camp are you? I've only read his first.

 

[Vinci]

Spoiler

In which camp are you? I've only read his first.

On which - Finnegans Wake or MGS?

 

[Red Scarlet]

Ok cool, I left after posting so I'll try to respond.

Not being able to move in them while in first person view was my issue. I had to move a bit, then hit first person, realize I was behind a wall, then move a bit again.

Would you try to go long distances in first person? Or would you be moving around in third, then hit the button to go into first and sometimes before doing that you'd wind up facing a wall?

I also had trouble with CQC like you did. Ugh, the amount of times I slit that poor bastard's throat instead of interrogating x.x

That's what I usually would wind up doing too. I probably should have practiced not slitting throats but I'd just shoot them in the head/balls/butt with a tranq dart after a while. :lol

Wow 22 bans just because people have a different opinion and don't think MGS is "a vertiginously deep critique of post cold-war political-nuance."
I feel just like Tycho. Damn it I want to like you MGS, let me like you!

Um, nearly all of the people that got banned in the thread were MGS defenders calling a conspiracy against MGS/Sony/Kojima. Please get your facts straight.

I had trouble with the pressure sensitive buttons in MGS3. I actually beat the game before I ever even figured out how to use the machine guns.

The stationary machine guns, or inventory ones?

For me? Having to completely mash down the square button to fire off a single round. Because of the stupid "must use pressure sensitive buttons" gimmick Kojima had to implement for the controls, it made it hard to fire a few shots and run compared to MGS1... or MGS3!

Are you not able to push the button after holding it to bring the gun out? I think that's all I did but I'd need to go check. IIRC, I would hold R1 to go into first person, then push square and hold it to aim, then let go and press the button fast to fire off a round. Would you have to go and hold then push the button a bunch to get a round off?

Man, GAF sure can be retarded sometimes. People get banned for expressing their dislike of a comic, in a civilized manner no doubt?

Now what, do I get banned for questioning the law?

Please see the above response to skybaby.

MGS1 had great controls for what it set out to do. MGS2, with only a few improvements was pushing it and MGS3: Subsistence camera fix just proved that the controls hadn't really evolved since the PSX game. But at least the pressure sensitive buttons worked in 3. Try not wasting a bullet when you have your pistol out or aiming with an automatic in MGS2, nigh impossible. Then try to hold someone hostage while pulling out a gun without letting him go (hold O to grab, hold X to pull out gun?!). Thankfully, 4 has indeed fixed all these issues so I'm happy.

Hm, I've played it a decent amount of times, but I really can't remember excess fire being a problem in MGS2. That seems to be the main gripe. Did you guys play the game on harder difficulty levels so running out of ammo was more of a problem? I'd usually play it on normal and tried on hard once but couldn't get past a part at the end of the game.

 

[skybaby]

Um, nearly all of the people that got banned in the thread were MGS defenders calling a conspiracy against MGS/Sony/Kojima. Please get your facts straight.

Well, that's what I meant actually. To clarify: just because PA doesn't like MGS or share their view it doesn't mean they are in a tirade against Sony/Kojima or making fun at the expense of their fans.

 

[Red Scarlet]

Well, that's what I meant actually. To clarify: just because PA doesn't like MGS or share their view it doesn't mean they are in a tirade against Sony/Kojima or making fun at the expense of their fans.

Yes, and the people that expressed that they thought PA *is* in a tirade against Sony/Kojima or making fun at the expense of their fans were banned, probably due to multiple times saying so.

 

[POWERSPHERE]

I doubt anyone hinges game purchases on ZP's or PA's opinion, so I don't understand why people get upset when they flame games.

Opinions kill developers and make all games Wii Fit? I know, I don't get it either...

 

[stuminus3]

Why in the world would I want to go watch something called "Power-o Fart"?

I am childish. This is the best reply I've read today. :lol

Anyway, whether you like them or not, it's astounding to see the influence Penny Arcade have over the internet, it's really quite amazing what a couple of guys and their little webcomic have achieved over the years, the over-the-top reactions to some of their work is a testament to that. You know you've made it when you end up being so inflammatory even when you don't mean to be.

I never have liked the blog posts though, I've always thought they were at their funniest when their comic stands alone in making fun of some random videogame thing. The blog posts are interesting sometimes, but not really relevant in the best of their humor.

 

[firex]

Ok cool, I left after posting so I'll try to respond.
Are you not able to push the button after holding it to bring the gun out? I think that's all I did but I'd need to go check. IIRC, I would hold R1 to go into first person, then push square and hold it to aim, then let go and press the button fast to fire off a round. Would you have to go and hold then push the button a bunch to get a round off?

Usually in my case I'd either fire too soon or too late, especially compared to MGS3. I don't know why since I was doing the same thing, but in MGS2 when I tried to shoot I'd have to jam down a lot harder on square and then release it to fire compared to MGS3.

Like usually I'd press it relatively hard but really quick, and what happens is I'd just pull out/put away the gun and not fire at all (due to not pushing it hard enough). Or fire a wild shot. It also might be better in Substance since I was only playing it in Sons of Liberty. And it didn't make me hate the game or anything (on the contrary since I actually don't like shooting in MGS games, so it helped me play more stealthy) but it was definitely frustrating until I just started jamming down really hard on square.

 

[Red Scarlet]

Usually in my case I'd either fire too soon or too late, especially compared to MGS3. I don't know why since I was doing the same thing, but in MGS2 when I tried to shoot I'd have to jam down a lot harder on square and then release it to fire compared to MGS3.

Like usually I'd press it relatively hard but really quick, and what happens is I'd just pull out/put away the gun and not fire at all (due to not pushing it hard enough). Or fire a wild shot. It also might be better in Substance since I was only playing it in Sons of Liberty. And it didn't make me hate the game or anything (on the contrary since I actually don't like shooting in MGS games, so it helped me play more stealthy) but it was definitely frustrating until I just started jamming down really hard on square.

Hm, do you try to do it really quickly from the 3rd person view? Maybe that's where some trouble comes out, I tend to get behind the person, get gun out, then aim for their head which can take awhile sometimes, then fire off a dart. If you hold it and release real quick does it fire off a shot?

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I met a traveler from a forum new
Who said: "Nine vast and witless pages long
Stand in the GAF...In them, amidst the banned,
Half sunk a MG avatar lies, whose 'stache,
And cybered eye, and look of an old man,
Tell that it's poster ill those passions held
Which yet connive to stamp out hapless things,
The post that mocked them and the ego fed;
And to the left these words appear:
My name is Ozymandius, Fan of Fans,
Look on my words, ye Fanboys, and despair!
A "Banned" below remains. Throughout the way
In that colossal thread, mindless and dull
The lonely, hopeless fans bitch all the day.

ShelleyChan

My favorite GAFfer. Huzzah!

 

[Firestorm]

Would you try to go long distances in first person? Or would you be moving around in third, then hit the button to go into first and sometimes before doing that you'd wind up facing a wall?

The latter.

I actually had the hold down to shoot problem too.

 

[FieryBalrog]

Reading this thread was like wading through a pool of bodies. :lol

 

[Red Scarlet]

The latter.

I actually had the hold down to shoot problem too.

Wall bopping, try a simple tap on the analog or d-pad, I think that's what I'd wind up doing. Release and press square again quick to get a shot off I think. Maybe those will help prevent occurrences somewhat.

 

[hulot]

Hm, I've played it a decent amount of times, but I really can't remember excess fire being a problem in MGS2. That seems to be the main gripe. Did you guys play the game on harder difficulty levels so running out of ammo was more of a problem?

Well aside from ammo issues on Extreme, I'd say if you had an unsilenced weapon and popped a round off by accident, it could cause some unneeded complications. With handguns, there are workarounds like unequipping the gun instead of slowly letting off the fire button. My point was that the pressure sensitive buttons in MGS2 (Substance included) just don't work well enough, as proved by the much more accurate MGS3 buttons. But with the automatic rifles, and if you'll recall they used a completely different control scheme, the weapon model doesn't even appear until you slightly depress the weapon button, holding it down to shoot. Obviously, considering the issues with handguns, it's hard here as well not to accidentally fire off rounds while trying to bring up the weapon to aim.

On which - Finnegans Wake or MGS?

Finnegan's Wake as mentioned in quote.

 

[DrForester]

and theres a new thread for this one apparently...