he was having the literal avatar of death who was about to bring about the apocalypse that can never be killed.
dunno how you could plan on the spot for that other than going with what you have.
Also both endings are clichéd anyway. You literally beat the manifestation of human negativity with the power of friendship. Doesn't get more clichéd than that.
he was having the literal avatar of death who was about to bring about the apocalypse that can never be killed.
dunno how you could plan on the spot for that other than going with what you have.
Also both endings are clichéd anyway. You literally beat the manifestation of human negativity with the power of friendship. Doesn't get more clichéd than that.
I agree that Ameno builds itself up as a much better climax to the game, but there'd need to be quite a bit of rearrangement to make all of the Izanagi exposition work without just being a big info dump. My biggest problem with Izanami is how you encounter her to start the true ending. You need to know not only to stop yourself from going home on the last day but to go to Junes, despite the game constantly asking you if you want to start leaving.
That always felt at odds with the rest of the game, in that it never implies you have agency there. But then again, despite the theme revolving around truth, you never really do much investigation in the first place. You do some really rudimentary tasks to find some of the dungeons, are given a major decision with no leeway (even if multiple answers would be appropriate for certain prompts), and pick the true killer from a menu. That's it. In that sense, I realized there were unresolved plot points, but I just thought they ran out of budget before being able to address all of them. Even if you, the player, realize that there are missing pieces, there's nothing to show that the game acknowledges that there are, and a lot telling you to ignore them.
I've seen some people bringing up the Izanami lesson you have at Gekkoukan as foreshadowing for encountering Izanami for real, but it only works after the fact. In that moment on your first playthrough, it just comes across as really neat context, since the game's so entrenched in Japanese mythology. The only way it'd mean anything immediately is if the game was directly fashioned after the real myth of Izanagi.
My only thought about P3's ending was that it was fine before the Answer's nonsense.
Shinjiro's fate(Or hell, anyone's fate that dies in the story) is league's better than Makoto's fate, and it's not exactly something I'm cool with. Still wonder how much of the idea to "free" him is just because of that, not to see him magically come back to life.
I normally hate "The hero's sacrifice" ending as it sometimes seems like a lazy out to me, but it was perfectly done in Persona 3. The Answer kind of ruined that. Dude got royally screwed by powers beyond his control at every stage of that story, hate shit like that, and it's not something the P3 crew should just be "cool" with.
I will always appreciate The Answer for opting to include all of it's story details as actual gameplay, despite how one might feel about such story details. They could have just pulled an Xenosaga and threw them in an encyclopedia like feature, but they didn't.
At the same time, The Answer will always be a sore spot for me for forcing the difficult to something resembling Hard/Maniac mode. As well as locking some essential gameplay features.
I normally hate "The hero's sacrifice" ending as it sometimes seems like a lazy out to me, but it was perfectly done in Persona 3. The Answer kind of ruined that. Dude got royally screwed by powers beyond his control at every stage of that story, hate shit like that, and it's not something the P3 crew should just be "cool" with.[/spoiler]
There's a difference between "He stays as a door forever and never goes into any form of the afterlife with his friends when they also eventually pass on. Oh and he may also be suffering every time Erebus comes back to boot!" to "He comes back to life and everyone's all happy!" There IS a middle ground there that existed before the Answer nonsense happened.
Of course made all the worse if
he's supposed to take responsibility for all his actions, aka all the crap fate kind of thrust onto him.
There's a difference between "He stays as a door forever and never goes into any form of the afterlife with his friends when they also eventually pass on. Oh and he may also be suffering every time Erebus comes back to boot!" to "He comes back to life and everyone's all happy!" There IS a middle ground there that existed before the Answer nonsense happened.
I will always appreciate The Answer for opting to include all of it's story details as actual gameplay, despite how one might feel about such story details. They could have just pulled an Xenosaga and threw them in an encyclopedia like feature, but they didn't.
At the same time, The Answer will always be a sore spot for me for forcing the difficult to something resembling Hard/Maniac mode. As well as locking some essential gameplay features.
Once I get back into it, I look forward to using her as a self-imposed challenge.
You know, to justify to myself why I'm playing on a low difficulty as it is.
in Persona Q, and I really like what the game has begun to do for the characters. I admit I'm an easily pleased sucker, but like, looking back on the game I actually think there have been some really good moments for the cast along the way.
Teddie and Aigis' conversation about the others sparkling and how that ties into Ultimax is a good one for me. In Q it shows how Aigis has a long way still to go until she gets to be where Teddie is at and can see it in Ultimax. Their interactions are actually often nice between the two games because they let Teddie do more than lust, and show the two as the innocent little kids they sort of actually are.
One of the best in the game is
Kanji and Ken. It stings all the more knowing that the end-game reset means Ken and Kanji don't remember all of it, because they really kind of form this bond that helps both of them. Ken seems to come to find an outlet for addressing his dislike of Shinjiro that's more constructive than in P3, and Kanji gets respect and a positive push toward a career. Part of me wants to believe that the reason Nerd Kanji appears in the finale of Golden is cuz he wants to straighten out his grades so he can be a teacher, even if he doesn't remember where that idea came from.
The main characters even managed a sort of brief one in the 4th dungeon
when P3MC stopped P4MC to thank him for leading the group.
So this latest one,
where Yosuke makes Rise cry, really works for me, because it's probably the first time the games explicitly praise Yosuke and point out that he spends time tearing himself down because he wants to build others up. It's a step too far in the other direction from Shadow Yosuke who spent his time bitching about how much everyone and everything sucked, but that's also kinda cool. Like, Yosuke saw the him he didn't like and subconsciously began kicking back. His friends are there to sort of help make sure he doesn't go too far in the other direction.
All in all, I've really enjoyed these spin-offs as a chance to watch the casts interact with each other. It's been fun watching Chie develop an admiration for Akihiko, or Rise form her friendship with Fuuka. I don't think the spin-offs have offered as much development for the casts as the main games, but that should be obvious. I do think both casts have a lot going for them in the spin-offs, though. The P3 casts are sometimes more obvious, since they've had in-game years to grow and change since P3 whereas the P4 cast have had only months, and those months have mostly been seen in these games.
I mean, it makes sense that Yukari and Mitsuru have changed more dramatically in the years since high school than Yukiko and Chie in the months since Junior Year ended.
That said, I don't actually think the P4 cast have been as left out in the cold to dry as people suggest. I think their growth is less obvious and more closely tied to their P4 story arcs than P3's cast. Yosuke's really stepped up to the plate to fill in Yu's shoes in his absences, and
in PQ his friends point out how compassionate he has become.
Chie and Kanji have gained a sense of direction in their lives they didn't have specified in 4, Yukiko's become more assertive, Naoto's dry personality has been pulled back. I don't think the Naoto we met in early 4 would've been able to abandon 'the job' enough to help Mitsuru in Arena. Outwardly Teddie seems to have devolved into a puddle of raging hormones, but he's also kind of moved to fill Yosuke's role in P4 to Yosuke. Teddie still clowns on him, but he's a lot more supportive of Yosuke than he initially was.
Most of the new characters have been pretty great, too. I mean that on their own but also in giving the cast someone to play off of. Arena's execution was flimsy, but Labrys gave pretty much every member of the cast a chance to exercise their own personal strengths. Yosuke comes through best in most cases. Rei and Zen manage to fit into the cast of Q really well. Rei can talk the love struck talk of girls like Yukari and Rise or the goofier conversations of Chie and Fuuka. Zen spends much of the early game swishing his hair with the two silent protagonists, but when he does start talking he's as endearing and moving as any other cast member at there best.
Sho's sort of a low point for me. He gives Labrys a lot to play off, which is nice, but I think that, like Marie, Sho's character is a combination of being a little too busy and not implemented quite right.
in Persona Q, and I really like what the game has begun to do for the characters. I admit I'm an easily pleased sucker, but like, looking back on the game I actually think there have been some really good moments for the cast along the way.
Yeah, there are some very good scenes in the final act of Persona Q. People like to handwave as an inconsequential romp, but I really do like what it does to the characters (most of the time).
A lot of those Persona Q impressions are of scenes that are unknown to me because I chose the P3 side, so I didn't see those significant P4 scenes. The P3 side has a lot of cool unique moments too, though, especially regarding Ken and Shinjiro
which is tragic, in retrospect, because the scenes they have and the reconciliation they have near the end of the game suggests that, had they kept their memories going into P3, Ken would have forgiven Shinji
(P3 and PQ spoilers). I'll need to play through the P4 side soon.
Yeah, there are some very good scenes in the final act of Persona Q. People like to handwave as an inconsequential romp, but I really do like what it does to the characters (most of the time).
PQ had those scenes more often than the Arena series and they were more extended due to the game's nature, but I think even Arena had some really cool scenes like that with the established characters. I'll expect the same of P4D.
Yeah, there are some very good scenes in the final act of Persona Q. People like to handwave as an inconsequential romp, but I really do like what it does to the characters (most of the time).
I think, for the most part, the spin-offs should be approached as just fun romps, that way you can be pleasantly surprised when they offer something more meaningful.
A lot of those Persona Q impressions are of scenes that are unknown to me because I chose the P3 side, so I didn't see those significant P4 scenes. The P3 side has a lot of cool unique moments too, though, especially regarding Ken and Shinjiro
which is tragic, in retrospect, because the scenes they have and the reconciliation they have near the end of the game suggests that, had they kept their memories going into P3, Ken would have forgiven Shinji
(P3 and PQ spoilers). I'll need to play through the P4 side soon.
Yeah, there are major scenes that are outright exclusive to each side. The incredible scene in which Yukari confronts SEES isn't present on the P4 side (and consequently, the Kanji / Ken stuff is absent from the P3 side). It's really neat how there's this big incentive to play both sides. Even the tiny little vignettes have some neat differences (such as Mitsuru tutoring Junpei on the P3 side and Kanji tutoring Ken on the P4 side)
Some characters in this series can be humorously considered a 'cosmic chewtoy'.
There's times Yukari feels like one of those, only played completely straight.
If this is going to be the final P4 game i hope this game gives everyone a proper send off. as much as i am excited for this game a part of me doesn't wanna finish it!
will the new cast be just as awesome and usher in another decade of spinoffs and discussion?
Would the Persona 4 side go faster if I beat the Persona 3 side?
I was eager to jump in on both before learning that the Persona 3 side took me like 100 hours.
If this is going to be the final P4 game i hope this game gives everyone a proper send off. as much as i am excited for this game a part of me doesn't wanna finish it!
will the new cast be just as awesome and usher in another decade of spinoffs and discussion?
Would the Persona 4 side go faster if I beat the Persona 3 side?
I was eager to jump in on both before learning that the Persona 3 side took me like 100 hours.
The player has an option to carry over nothing into each New Cycle or to carry the following:
1) Persona Compendium
2) Persona Levels
3) All Money, Items and Equipment, including Stored items
4) Unlocked equipment in the Workshop
5) Character and Persona levels
6) Mapping Data - The player chooses separately from the above if the Mapping Data is to be carried over
7) Enepedia data -
Clock Tower enemy data will remain hidden until the player gains access to the Clock Tower in that playthrough.
Staring a New Game Plus or loading Clear Data after either protagonists' route has been completed unlocks bonus requests and allows the player to purchase the initial equipment of all party members from both character routes.
Loading Clear Data after both protagonists' routes have been completed grants the request to fight the game's Ultimate Boss.
The Upgraded Personas (like Susano/Izanagi no Okami) of every party member also carry over. So get the upgraded persona of the party members that you are planning to use in your next playthrough.
Rest of my Persona 4 figures arrived today. Really happy with them but I'm already considering starting on getting P3 ones now. Im so weak! (and my wallet already hates me)
On the one hand, May 5, 2015 is the one perfect date for this to happen again if they want to carry on with the motif, and DPS is hinting at upcoming news on an unreleased title for their next issue. On the other hand, the date coincides with the end of Golden Week, and Atlus hasn't hinted at anything themselves.
There was also five chairs, and five exclamation marks for the final event on the Super Live schedule in terms of "5" related teases.
Some possible predictions: Nothing; A teaser on the same level as "Take Your Heart" or the chiars; An episode of Stalker Club where they talk about P5 but reveal nothing, or very little, new; A teaser for the blu ray, possibly a trailer for it, or at least revealing what will be on it.
Oh yeah, the interrogation marks on the News Flash! Stream schedule works. I didn't count the chairs, though, because I don't think those were ever part of any type of countdown or moment leading to an announcement (apart from seconds before the trailer at PSL or just being updated on the official website).
Edit: I like the time aspect of each of the previous ones; those would be the most evocative of something occurring on a "5/5/5" date.
I might try and go back to Persona Q tomorrow I think. I really didn't like the Etrian style dungeons but I don't like leaving the game and story partially done.
