Support NeoGAF

[Sophia]

In terms of gameplay, it's P5 > P3 > P4 > P1 > P2. Persona 5 is unquestionably the best entry for gameplay, and has some amazingly good dungeons too despite a few flaws.

I don't think I could rate anything else tho, because the cast and characters are just so subjective and stuff. Everyone's gonna have their favorites, and every cast is really pretty amazing in their own ways.

 

[eyeball_kid]

I don't think there's really any consensus ranking at the moment, aside from P5 outshining P3 and 4 in terms of dungeons/combat.

Honestly, after Palace 7 I'm kind of fine with P3's dungeons. I'm not really a big fan of the dungeon gimmicks in P5. Maybe if they were half as long.

 

[Dragon1893]

Spin offs involving the casts from all 3 games really makes me wonder what kind of crazy story they are going to come up with.
Honestly I'd be fine if these games only had the P5 cast (though I have to admit I want to see Yukari in the dancing game lol). I just get the feeling that otherwise it will be convoluted as hell. Oh well, they've all been good gameplay wise so as long as they deliver on that front that's what matters most.

 

[klabautermann]

Spin offs involving the casts from all 3 games really makes me wonder what kind of crazy story they are going to come up with.
Honestly I'd be fine if these games only had the P5 cast (though I have to admit I want to see Yukari in the dancing game lol). I just get the feeling that otherwise it will be convoluted as hell. Oh well, they've all been good gameplay wise so as long as they deliver on that front that's what matters most.

I actually wouldn't mind if they just dropped the story and made it more about the gameplay for Persona Dance and Persona Arena games, personally. The stories never really add anything, though I appreciate the effort.

 

[Dragon1893]

I actually wouldn't mind if they just dropped the story and made it more about the gameplay for Persona Dance and Persona Arena games, personally. The stories never really add anything, though I appreciate the effort.

Story-wise I think the only one that was truly bad was Ultimax tbh. I think the others did some neat things, spoilers for the spin-offs:

Spoiler

I really liked Labry's story in Arena and then playing PQ and realizing that Rei is the girl whose plume of dusk was used for Labrys was pretty awesome.

P4D was actually better than I expected considering the type of game it is even though it's nothing special of course.

Now with P5 thrown into the mix I'm afraid it will just become too convoluted though. I definitely want to see more from the P5 cast but this trend of bringing the casts together in spin-offs is starting to feel forced at this point, assuming they're really going in that direction.

 

[klabautermann]

Oh I agree, P4U2 was the most offensive one and I was surprised with P4D and how good it actually was, but enjoyment aside they don't really add much. I know they'll be there and they'll do a decent job. I would totally be okay without the stories though for at least the fighting and rhythm games. I more enjoy the goofy interactions between characters that wouldn't really interact to begin with and having unique fighting game intros or something for a P5U could accomplish that enough for me, probably.

 

[Dragon1893]

Oh I agree, P4U2 was the most offensive one and I was surprised with P4D and how good it actually was, but enjoyment aside they don't really add much. I know they'll be there and they'll do a decent job. I would totally be okay without the stories though for at least the fighting and rhythm games. I more enjoy the goofy interactions between characters that wouldn't really interact to begin with and having unique fighting game intros or something for a P5U could accomplish that enough for me, probably.

Yeah, I completely agree that at least for the dancing game they should just drop the story completely. It's a type of game that doesn't require it, so I don't get why they feel the need to put it there, there's no need for context in a friggin' rythm game, hell, it just makes things worse because it puts limitations on which characters can appear. I really don't understand why they bother, just throw as many characters and songs into it as you can and call it a day.
Same for the fighting games really, though those have a tradition of having some kind of plot.

 

[CrimsonFist]

PQ style would probably still work with a larger cast, lighter tone for the most part with various dungeon/out of dungeon skits. The other spinoffs couldn't even balance the cast sizes as they were without P5 in the mix, with the focus mostly being on the new characters anyway.


Wonder when we're getting a Persona Gacha spinoff.

 

[Sophia]

PQ style would probably still work with a larger cast, lighter tone for the most part with various dungeon/out of dungeon skits. The other spinoffs couldn't even balance the cast sizes as they were without P5 in the mix, with the focus mostly being on the new characters anyway.


Wonder when we're getting a Persona Gacha spinoff.

Speaking of that, I have no idea how a Persona Q 2 with the Persona 5 cast will work. PQ already had way too many playable characters at 16 of them, and no way to easily manage levels on all of them.

 

[CrimsonFist]

Speaking of that, I have no idea how a Persona Q 2 with the Persona 5 cast will work. PQ already had way too many playable characters at 16 of them, and no way to easily manage levels on all of them.

It needs full exp sharing really. They could just go with select characters from each game rather than the entire casts.

 

[Lynx_7]

They could always ditch the oldest game in favor of the two most recent ones. P3 would take the fall so P5 may rise.

Honestly, after Palace 7 I'm kind of fine with P3's dungeons. I'm not really a big fan of the dungeon gimmicks in P5. Maybe if they were half as long.

I really hope we never go back that low again. I think I'd be more accepting of a game with no dungeons at all than 3-4 tier. I had more than my fair share of those. If I could have it my way I'd make them ditch mementos on P5 Crimson and replace it with an Amala Labyrinth style dungeon.

The only thing I want them to improve on P6's dungeons is difficulty (so that all dungeons are as challenging as Palace 1) and escalate the puzzles better. I feel like P5's puzzles are a bit too basic (though I think the bank did a mostly pretty good job with them). They could have some more setpieces as well to spice things up between sections (I think the casino did a pretty good job here). There's a bunch of stuff they could've done with traps at Futaba's palace that they didn't fully realize, for example.

 

[eyeball_kid]

I really hope we never go back that low again. I think I'd be more accepting of a game with no dungeons at all than 3-4 tier. I had more than my fair share of those. If I could have it my way I'd make them ditch mementos on P5 Crimson and replace it with an Amala Labyrinth style dungeon.

The only thing I want them to improve on P6's dungeons is difficulty (so that all dungeons are as challenging as Palace 1) and escalate the puzzles better. I feel like P5's puzzles are a bit too basic (though I think the bank did a mostly pretty good job with them). They could have some more setpieces as well to spice things up between sections (I think the casino did a pretty good job here). There's a bunch of stuff they could've done with traps at Futaba's palace that they didn't fully realize, for example.

Mementos is even worse than P3 dungeons because the stealth mechanic falls apart with no objects to hide behind. I've been "ambushed' many times in Mementos simply because the movement and targeting is so imprecise compared to P3.

I just don't like puzzle mechanics in games, so I don't think they could improve the palaces for me by making them even more puzzley. I think they're a distraction from the main course, the combat. Put the puzzles in the fights -- let shadows have more diverse, weird effects and abilities that you have to figure out how to counter.

I do appreciate the themes for the palaces instead of generic hallways though, and that should be expanded upon. I also did like the video camera mechanic because it felt very old school Metal Gear, and was surprised that they dropped that.

 

[PK Gaming]

I think they were on a fantastic track with the dungeons in 5

The sense of speed and general freedom you have is pretty unparalleled. Some (emphasis on some) dungeons suffer from blatant design issues (5 and 7), but for the most part, they do a good job of letting you explore this super evocative area, with some light platforming to give it a pseudo-sly cooper feel. The first dungeon nailed this the most, because it clearly designed without quick travel in mind. There were optional chests, shortcuts, a huge sense of scale... conquering that dungeon was amazing. To be honest, pacing I think doesn't need to be improved that mu h; people need to stop clearing dungeons in a single day. Trying to do so is an outdated tactic from P4.

The biggest issue with dungeons for me is the game's difficulty curve, which kind of breaks on normal. So you end up just going through the motions when it comes to battles. Hard somewhat fixes this by making each encounter more difficult and tense, which makes progression more difficult (and rewarding!). The penalty for dying is too severe however, and they should just respawn you to the nearest safe room instead of giving you a game over.

Mementos is even worse than P3 dungeons because the stealth mechanic falls apart with no objects to hide behind. I've been "ambushed' many times in Mementos simply because the movement and targeting is so imprecise compared to P3.

Mementos plays like a traditional Persona dungeon, so stealth isn't the point. The Morganamobile is pretty fast so I can't imagine getting ambushed unless you messed up (like in the older games). To be honest, Morgana and the ease of quick travel easily puts over P3's dungeons, since they have sameish layouts sans platform and Mementos looks way better.

 

[Lynx_7]

Mementos is even worse than P3 dungeons because the stealth mechanic falls apart with no objects to hide behind. I've been "ambushed' many times in Mementos simply because the movement and targeting is so imprecise compared to P3.

I just don't like puzzle mechanics in games, so I don't think they could improve the palaces for me by making them even more puzzley. I think they're a distraction from the main course, the combat. Put the puzzles in the fights -- let shadows have more diverse, weird effects and abilities that you have to figure out how to counter.

I do appreciate the themes for the palaces instead of generic hallways though, and that should be expanded upon. I also did like the video camera mechanic because it felt very old school Metal Gear, and was surprised that they dropped that.

I think traps and puzzles are good to spice up exploration and complement the aesthetics of the dungeons. Traps in particular are important because they make exploration itself more dangerous, and many dungeon crawlers use them effectively to make places harder to traverse. It can also contribute to atmosphere. I wouldn't want dungeons to be 100% combat focused, I enjoy the balance between level design and enemy encounters. I obviously don't expect nor do I want Zelda-esque dungeons in Persona, but I like what they have going in P5.

I just hope whatever team handles P6 can find a better balance between the social simulation and dungeon crawling. I wonder if a higher number of smaller "dungeons" would work. Instead of the usual 7~8, have about 14 mid-sized hand-crafted locations. This would also speed up the story's pace as they could have a larger number of story beats in less time, and they wouldn't need to constantly compromise between "story time - social sim time". With more dungeons and story beats, you could have both things going on at the same time, instead of limiting the player between either one of these things. P3 almost got this right on theory with social activities by day and Tartarus at night, but I felt the latter was too sparse and the story beats too telegraphed (the whole full moon thing), which hurt the game's pacing for me.

 

[Mediking]

The two worst palaces were...

Spoiler

The Boat and the Spaceship thing

Man, those were awful. THE BACKTRACKING WAS REAL.

I actually enjoyed Mementos (great way to test stuff while in new outfits) but stopping cast party dialogue when a demon approached you was a huge design flaw.

 

[Sophia]

I didn't mind the puzzles until I got to Palace 5. That's when things started getting tedious. I actually don't mind solving puzzles, but once they start making combat become a pain, I don't want anything to do with them.

And yeah Mementos sucks. It's everything wrong with Persona 3's Tartarus with nothing right. : \

 

[Lynx_7]

I think they were on a fantastic track with the dungeons in 5

The sense of speed and general freedom you have is pretty unparalleled. Some (emphasis on some) dungeons suffer from blatant design issues (5 and 7), but for the most part, they do a good job of letting you explore this super evocative area, with some light platforming to give it a pseudo-sly cooper feel. The first dungeon nailed this the most, because it clearly designed without quick travel in mind. There were optional chests, shortcuts, a huge sense of scale... conquering that dungeon was amazing. To be honest, pacing I think doesn't need to be improved that mu h; people need to stop clearing dungeons in a single day. Trying to do so is an outdated tactic from P4.

The biggest issue with dungeons for me is the game's difficulty curve, which kind of breaks on normal. So you end up just going through the motions when it comes to battles. Hard somewhat fixes this by making each encounter more difficult and tense, which makes progression more difficult (and rewarding!). The penalty for dying is too severe however, and they should just respawn you to the nearest safe room instead of giving you a game over.

This is my stance as well, except from a design standpoint I think I prefer the bank, tomb and casino to the castle. I think the bank in particular made pretty good use of its safe rooms, there was one in particular that got a lot of mileage from me.
For dungeon crawling though, no other palace beats the castle, and that's entirely due to the game's difficulty curve (2, 3 and 4 still felt challenging on Hard though, but I was also semi-gimping myself by not buying 4 adhesives right away).

As for the penalty, I think SMT IV and IV:Apocalypse are good arguments against light penalties for dungeon crawlers as none of the exploration and random encounters in those games felt rewarding since you could just die at any moment and pretty much shrug it off. Returning to the nearest safe room could perhaps work if they spaced them out really well, Demon's Souls style, but otherwise I'd want them to think of something harsher. Maybe it's time for Persona to adopt some sort of "casual mode" that allows you to instantly retry any fight. Some people enjoy harsher fights without the penalty of losing, so I think that's a good compromise. It worked for Fire Emblem.

 

[Mediking]

I didn't mind the puzzles until I got to Palace 5. That's when things started getting tedious. I actually don't mind solving puzzles, but once they start making combat become a pain, I don't want anything to do with them.

And yeah Mementos sucks. It's everything wrong with Persona 3's Tartarus with nothing right. :

Mementos is not trash. I'll defend it.

A great way to try new Persona and experiment. Its when I realized Yusuke is a good fighter.

Great way to get money and get items.

Great way to hear party dynamic.... at times. Lol

 

[CrimsonFist]

I think it's the cover/ambushing system that makes P5's dungeons feel much better to traverse than a lot of others in the genre. There's more interaction with the dungeon scenery itself, and it puts advantages entirely into the players control. Compared to say, Tokyo Mirage Sessions, I think TMS's dungeons had better/more complex puzzles, but they were far less interesting visually, and simply getting around and getting into battles didn't feel as good. Plus save anywhere basically removed any tension from combat or threat of messing up.

I'd say that hard for most of the game is pretty perfect as a difficulty level, it makes random encounters a genuine threat, but with the amount of tools you have and the ambush system, deaths are nearly always avoidable. My only real issue is the difficulty completely dropping off towards the end.

For balancing dungeon crawling/daily life, I think the only way to stop people powering through dungeons in one day is to take the time management option away from the player entirely. P5 makes it a bit easy by giving the SP accessories early, but I doubt that taking those away would stop people from trying to one day the dungeons. The game literally not letting you complete them in one day is probably the only way to stop that.

Also I stand by saying that there's nothing wrong with Palace 5.

 

[Sophia]

Mementos is not trash. I'll defend it.

A great way to try new Persona and experiment. Its when I realized Yusuke is a good fighter.

Great way to get money and get items.

Great way to hear party dynamic.... at times. Lol

I'm sorry, but Mementos is not good. Randomizes dungeons that don't actually have anything in them suck. Randomize dungeons that repeat the same layout over and over again definitely suck. To say nothing of the fact that Mementos takes away some core gameplay concepts in the name of that randomization and it's even worse. A few lines of dialogue and being a "grinding spot" do not justify it's existence.

 

[CrimsonFist]

More music variety would go a long way to improving mementos.

Due to how the game is structured, something like Mementos probably does need to exist, the miniboss sidequests at least are generally better than the sidequests in P3/4 (Elizabeth ones aside).

 

[Mediking]

I'm sorry, but Mementos is not good. Randomizes dungeons that don't actually have anything in them suck. Randomize dungeons that repeat the same layout over and over again definitely suck. To say nothing of the fact that Mementos takes away some core gameplay concepts in the name of that randomization and it's even worse. A few lines of dialogue and being a "grinding spot" do not justify it's existence.

I'll take running through Mementos than some of the annoying Palaces anyday.

But won't you agree its a nice place to test stuff and your skill?

In MOST Palaces, I just wanna get it over with and move on with story... oh wait!!! Here's annoying puzzles! Aww yeah!

 

[TheMrPliskin]

Changing the music every new set of floors or slowly adding upon a single track like P3 would definitely have helped make Mementos less of a chore. It's so odd to me how the main dungeons show such an evolution in how the team handle dungeon design and yet you have Mementos which is basically the worst possible version of their previous dungeons.

 

[Lynx_7]

Also I stand by saying that there's nothing wrong with Palace 5.

Dude, there's like, almost half a dozen of us!
Actually, there is one thing wrong with Palace 5, that elephant piece of shit one-shotting me with DeathBound when I'm at full HP on Hard mode. Why.

Due to how the game is structured, something like Mementos probably does need to exist, the miniboss sidequests at least are generally better than the sidequests in P3/4 (Elizabeth ones aside).

It needs to, which is why I always bring up the Amala Labyrinth from Nocturne when talking about it. That's also a dungeon that blocks your progress sometimes depending on how far along you are in the game and you can tackle it between "story" dungeons. The difference is Mementos is a chore while Amala is arguably the best dungeon of its game.

Mementos could've been handcrafted in a similar manner and side-quests could still happen there. Just have them at fixed locations that only appear when you accept their request.

In MOST Palaces, I just wanna get it over with and move on with story... oh wait!!! Here's annoying puzzles! Aww yeah!

You know, posts like these make me wonder if that's the reason most dungeon crawlers don't feature engrossing narratives. Some players start thinking the dungeons are "in the way" of the story, instead of just enjoying the gameplay they provide.

 

[Sophia]

Persona 1 had Mikage Ruins (SEBEC) and Devil's Peak (Snow Queen) which served a similar function to Mementos and the Amala Labyrinth, and were also handcrafted.

But won't you agree its a nice place to test stuff and your skill?

Not really. The setup of SMT/Persona games means designing your skills around what is in front of you, not what's in a side dungeon.

 

[Mediking]

You know, posts like these make me wonder if that's the reason most dungeon crawlers don't feature engrossing narratives. Some players start thinking the dungeons are "in the way" of the story, instead of just enjoying the gameplay they provide.

UM???

You're gonna honestly sit there and tell me that some of the Palaces were NOT annoying?

HONESTLY?

You're talking to a damn early P5 purist.

Kamoshida's Palace is my favorite because of how fun it was AND how it plays into the story.

Just because I find many of Palaces to have annoying things... doesn't mean I hate them or wish they weren't there!

 

[eyeball_kid]

I think traps and puzzles are good to spice up exploration and complement the aesthetics of the dungeons. Traps in particular are important because they make exploration itself more dangerous, and many dungeon crawlers use them effectively to make places harder to traverse. It can also contribute to atmosphere. I wouldn't want dungeons to be 100% combat focused, I enjoy the balance between level design and enemy encounters. I obviously don't expect nor do I want Zelda-esque dungeons in Persona, but I like what they have going in P5.

I'm not saying no traps or puzzles -- I briefly enjoyed the mouse maze for instance -- but I don't think Persona should be turned into a hardcore dungeon crawler, either. That is SMT's lane. I'd rather Persona focus on style and overall experience and streamline most cases of tedium. That's not saying make it easy, but P5 feels like there's a lot of disrespect for player's time, and that's saying a lot after playing P3: FES. Many dungeon puzzles in P5 felt like they were just there to pad content. But I do like the navigation aspect, hidden treasures, that kind of thing Persona 5 does well. And as I said, I liked the camera aspect and would love more stealth mechanics, though I imagine that won't happen since this game was focused on heists.

For balancing dungeon crawling/daily life, I think the only way to stop people powering through dungeons in one day is to take the time management option away from the player entirely. P5 makes it a bit easy by giving the SP accessories early, but I doubt that taking those away would stop people from trying to one day the dungeons. The game literally not letting you complete them in one day is probably the only way to stop that.

Well, Persona 3 had the best solution: just have the party become tired, until eventually your party members leave you and your stats get negatively affected. Not sure why they changed that.

 

[Mediking]

I'm not saying no traps or puzzles -- I briefly enjoyed the mouse maze for instance -- but I don't think Persona should be turned into a hardcore dungeon crawler, either. That is SMT's lane. I'd rather Persona focus on style and overall experience and streamline most cases of tedium. That's not saying make it easy, but P5 feels like there's a lot of disrespect for player's time, and that's saying a lot after playing P3: FES. Many dungeon puzzles in P5 felt like they were just there to pad content. But I do like the navigation aspect, hidden treasures, that kind of thing Persona 5 does well. And as I said, I liked the camera aspect and would love more stealth mechanics, though I imagine that won't happen since this game was focused on heists.

Thank you. Totally agree with you.

What's funny is that P5 actually has alotta quality of life story for the player. Like ALOT.

But I can't help but flashback to Makoto's Palace and remember the annoying stuff to do before you fought you know who. Man, I flashback to that dreaded

Spoiler

boat

Palace... ugh.

I don't hate the Palaces. I like the music and running around in interesting looking areas.

 

[TurnipFritters]

I'm not saying no traps or puzzles -- I briefly enjoyed the mouse maze for instance -- but I don't think Persona should be turned into a hardcore dungeon crawler, either. That is SMT's lane. I'd rather Persona focus on style and overall experience and streamline most cases of tedium.

I think they're pretty committed to the calendar system.

 

[Lynx_7]

UM???

You're gonna honestly sit there and tell me that some of the Palaces were NOT annoying?

HONESTLY?

You're talking to a damn early P5 purist.

Kamoshida's Palace is my favorite because of how fun it was AND how it plays into the story.

Just because I find many of Palaces to have annoying things... doesn't mean I hate them or wish they weren't there!

I can only speak from my perspective, and I personally didn't feel annoyed at most P5 dungeons. That's not to say they're perfect, but I didn't have most of the issues people have with them. Palace 5 had that keycard section that went for longer than it should've, and that last lock at the bank had perhaps one or two too many password puzzles, but I can't remember being deeply annoyed or clamoring for any palace to be over. I'm still early into Palace 7 which seems to me the most universally disliked dungeon, so I'll see how I feel about that one.

For an example of something I would consider truly awful dungeon design, look no further than SMT Apocalypse's final dungeon. I was thinking almost the whole way through "what the hell were they thinking? This is legit terrible"

What's a "damn early P5 purist"?lol

 

[TurnipFritters]

For an example of something I would consider truly awful dungeon design, look no further than SMT Apocalypse's final dungeon. I was thinking almost the whole way through "what the hell were they thinking? This is legit terrible"l

i don't know why anyone would have an issue with it, it's got all the best elements of a dungeon: droning music, vast empty spaces, teleporters, palette swapped enemies, one way doors...

 

[Mediking]

I can only speak from my perspective, and I personally didn't feel annoyed at most P5 dungeons. That's not to say they're perfect, but I didn't have most of the issues people have with them. Palace 5 had that keycard section that went for longer than it should've, and that last lock at the bank had perhaps one or two too many password puzzles, but I can't remember being deeply annoyed or clamoring for any palace to be over. I'm still early into Palace 7 which seems to me the most universally disliked dungeon, so I'll see how I feel about that one.

For an example of something I would consider truly awful dungeon design, look no further than SMT Apocalypse's final dungeon. I was thinking almost the whole way through "what the hell were they thinking? This is legit terrible"

What's a "damn early P5 purist"?lol

"damn early P5 purist" = I love P5 overall but the early part of the game aka Kamoshida's Arc is some of the best writing I've ever seen in a JRPG. I've already wrote speeches about how amazing that section of the game is. Lol I'll always champion early P5.

That's why I always say... early P5 is best P5 (especially from a writing standpoint).

 

[Lynx_7]

i don't know why anyone would have an issue with it, it's got all the best elements of a dungeon: droning music, vast empty spaces, teleporters, palette swapped enemies, one way doors...

Don't forget

Spoiler

Metatron

hordes who take a goddamn century to kill and are more than abundant on the higher floors! Oh, and they call reinforcements too. Just masterclass design all around.

"damn early P5 purist" = I love P5 overall but the early part of the game aka Kamoshida's Arc is some of the best writing I've ever seen in a JRPG. I've already wrote speeches about how amazing that section of the game is. Lol I'll always champion early P5.

That's why I always say... early P5 is best P5 (especially from a writing standpoint).

I get where you're coming from, and it's not an unusual opinion. Many people feel the game's writing peaks at Kamoshida's arc, and I'm inclined to agree it's the best at showing the impact of the villain's actions. That said, I think it takes a bit too long to take off the training wheels, and I'm enjoying the whole story from (Palace 6 spoilers)

Spoiler

Okumura's assassination up to the point where you get to Palace 7

a lot.

Spoiler

Futaba's

arc had me similarly gripped. It's only arcs

Spoiler

Spoiler

2, 3 and 5

that are a bit lacking, I think.

The only thing missing right now is climatic background music for daily exploration a la memories of the city. This is my biggest pet peeve with P5 bar none. Why doesn't the music change?! Atmosphere really takes a hit when the game is playing that one track I've heard a million times before as the exploration music for the game's grand finale. P3 and P4 nailed this so I don't know why they dropped the ball here.

 

[A Dead Diehard]

Speaking of that, I have no idea how a Persona Q 2 with the Persona 5 cast will work. PQ already had way too many playable characters at 16 of them, and no way to easily manage levels on all of them.

Given how magic-based characters were severely handicapped compared to the physical, they really couldn't have even balanced one game's cast.

 

[PK Gaming]

Given how magic-based characters were severely handicapped compared to the physical, they really couldn't have even balanced one game's cast.

Most of the magic-based characters were viable

PQ1's character balance was pretty good

 

[Mediking]

I get where you're coming from, and it's not an unusual opinion. Many people feel the game's writing peaks at Kamoshida's arc, and I'm inclined to agree it's the best at showing the impact of the villain's actions. That said, I think it takes a bit too long to take off the training wheels, and I'm enjoying the whole story from (Palace 6 spoilers)

Spoiler

Okumura's assassination up to the point where you get to Palace 7

a lot.

Spoiler

Futaba's

arc had me similarly gripped. It's only arcs

Spoiler

Spoiler

2, 3 and 5

that are a bit lacking, I think.

The only thing missing right now is climatic background music for daily exploration a la memories of the city. This is my biggest pet peeve with P5 bar none. Why doesn't the music change?! Atmosphere really takes a hit when the game is playing that one track I've heard a million times before as the exploration music for the game's grand finale. P3 and P4 nailed this so I don't know why they dropped the ball here.

I'll put it to you like this.

I actually CARE MORE about Shiho than... let's say... Yusuke and Haru and Akechi.

It's a shame she couldn't develop her own Persona or something. Or just come back...

And yeah. P5's OST... only like a few songs from it. Hopefully P5Dan an increase that number greatly.

 

[A Dead Diehard]

Most of the magic-based characters were viable

PQ1's character balance was pretty good

Not when you factor in how HP is FAR easier to recover than SP, and the loads of multi-hit physical attacks in the late game.

Elemental users are a real handicap.

 

[Sophia]

Most of the magic-based characters were viable

PQ1's character balance was pretty good

There were some issues (instant kills/status effects were too powerful, magic had a weird design issue due to SP costs of abilities) but on the whole it was pretty well balanced.

Not when you factor in how HP is FAR easier to recover than SP, and the loads of multi-hit physical attacks in the late game.

Elemental users are a real handicap.

I think a big factor that would have helped is if replaced abilities became a skill card.

I.E. if Mitsuru has Bufula replace Bufu, then you automatically get a Bufu skill card that you can put on her skill card slots to keep. That way you can keep the lower costing Bufu for triggering boosts.

Some adjustments to the SP costs would have helped too.

 

[TurnipFritters]

Magic users bad in an Etrian Odyssey game?!

 

[A Dead Diehard]

Magic users bad in an Etrian Odyssey game?!

I'm gonna guess that's sarcasm?
I haven't touched any other Etrian games.

 

[PK Gaming]

Not when you factor in how HP is FAR easier to recover than SP, and the loads of multi-hit physical attacks in the late game.

Elemental users are a real handicap.

No, it's more complicated than that. Ideally, you should have enough SP to cast 1-2 spells without completely blowing through your SP buffer, which is more than enough to get through random encounters (if you didn't wipe them out with instant kills, which counts as magic BTW). Sure, magic DPS was complete garbage compared to physical DPS, but notice how I said character balance and not game balance. Let's run through the casters:

• Yukari: The very worst character in the game because magic was her only good stat and healing could be replaced by Fuuka. That said, she was 100% viable.
• Mitsuru: Similar to Yukari, but slightly better due to her usable luck.
• Ken: God tier because of his high luck stat. Could trivialize encounters with instant kills (aka magic) and FOE's with his status effects .
• P3MC: See Ken, but even better (arguably the best character in the game lol).
• Naoto: See P3MC.
• Teddie: See Naoto, but he was still kind of eh due to his garbage Speed.
• Yukiko: Very viable in a normal playthrough. Her high luck gives her a niche by making her a very fast caster which was useful for many FOE's. She falls off by the endgame, but she performs pretty well.

So 2/7 dedicated casters are bad (viable), and 3/7 are the very best in the game. So yeah, I don't think the game's character balance was nearly as bad as you're implying. If we're talking about battle system, it's another thing entirely (as status effects and links completely break the game), but this was a game where the cast was decently balanced relative to each other.

Magic users bad in an Etrian Odyssey game?!

Isn't this only a thing in the original game? It's definitely not the case for 3, 4 and U2.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

other than when the mouse maze showed up for the 3rd and 4th time I was never once annoyed by the P5 palace sizes

P3 and P4 though...

 

[A Dead Diehard]

other than when the mouse maze showed up for the 3rd and 4th time I was never once annoyed by the P5 palace sizes

P3 and P4 though...

P3 can be tedious in that it's all climbing till the game says stop.
The worst P4 got was having to actually backtrack after getting a key in the 5th dungeon.
P5 has the code lock padding in the second half of the 3rd palace, the annoying airlock puzzles, AND the maze.

More effort was inarguably put into P5's, but it can backfire sometimes.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

P3 can be tedious in that it's all climbing till the game says stop.
The worst P4 got was having to actually backtrack after getting a key in the 5th dungeon.
P5 has the code lock padding in the second half of the 3rd palace, the annoying airlock puzzles, AND the maze.

More effort was inarguably put into P5's, but it can backfire sometimes.

other than the mazes overstaying their welcome, those were all fun. P4s the best I can say is they werent as tedious as P3s thanks to having a theme and not being as long.

 

[Dragon1893]

Mementos is not trash. I'll defend it.

A great way to try new Persona and experiment. Its when I realized Yusuke is a good fighter.

Great way to get money and get items.

Great way to hear party dynamic.... at times. Lol

It had to be in the game because palaces disappear after you beat them, so they're not viable for sidequests, especially since a few are tied to Confidants.
You'd also be locked out of going to dungeons during the time between beating a palace and gaining access to a new one which wouldn't be viable either.
It's a smart way to get around these things and its existence is well justified within the lore, though of course it doesn't have the same amount of effort put into it as the main story dungeons.

 

[Dantis]

I am tremendously excited at the prospect of two new games getting announced next week.

I really hope that if they do get announced, they're proper sequels (in that they change things up and improve things).

 

[A Dead Diehard]

I am tremendously excited at the prospect of two new games getting announced next week.

I really hope that if they do get announced, they're proper sequels (in that they change things up and improve things).

I hope they're willing to make bold developments to the story.
No Ultimax-level cop-outs.

I'd be interested in another dancing game if they improved the gameplay mechanics. Couldn't get into P4D even though I thought the remixes were pretty good.

Anyone expecting good stories out of these spinoffs should probably abandon all hope.

At the very least, I might get one or two new ideas to appropriate.

 

[Lunar15]

I'd be interested in another dancing game if they improved the gameplay mechanics. Couldn't get into P4D even though I thought the remixes were pretty good.

Anyone expecting good stories out of these spinoffs should probably abandon all hope.

 

[Mobile Suit Gooch]

I guess with the Dance game, we'll finally have a canon name for P5MC.

 

[Dragon1893]

Going by a pic Shihoko just tweeted it looks like they'll be rocking 3 violins and a cello this time.
Cello could be for the bassist though, he's used one before.