• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Phil Spencer, Mike Ybarra and Shannon Loftis talk about Xbox One S, Scorpio & VR

mocoworm

Member
LOADS more at the link. It's a huge interview / article.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/11/scorpio-microsoft-xbox-one-s-future-video-games?

The question on a lot of lips was, why? Why did Microsoft start its press briefing with Xbox One S, promising 4K compatibility, a new 40% smaller body and support for HDR gaming, only to apparently undermine the package by revealing Scorpio at the end? Due in late 2017, this intriguing iteration packs in eight CPU cores and promises six teraflops of processing power. And while Xbox One S will run 4K movies and promises to upscale games to that resolution, it’ll be Scorpio that delivers true, native 4K gaming. So why not keep it secret for a few more months? Why instantly cannibalise the Xbox One S market before it has even launched?

In short, Spencer wanted to use E3 to reach the whole development community and pique its interest in the new hardware. Of course, the counter-argument would be that Microsoft could have done that in secret, with a whole bunch of NDAs, but then, the industry has changed a lot, even since the last hardware generation. There’s much more appreciation for – and even reliance on – the vast, global independent sector, and it’s unlikely Microsoft would have kept its new platform secret for long while communicating with such a large community. So the thinking was perhaps, why not go big? Why not light the powder keg at the biggest show in gaming?

Meanwhile Microsoft remains confident in its Xbox One S proposition. The company has seen the decent uptake of 4K televisions, and knows consumers are looking for compatible content. “A lot of people are missing the fact that Xbox One S is a 4K, UHD physical Blu-ray player too,” says Mike Ybarra, director of program management for Xbox. “Well, those are retailing at $399. With Xbox One S, at $299, you’re getting 4K Blu-ray, a 4K upscaler for games and video, it’s 40% smaller than Xbox One, and has the power supply built in. I think people are going to be blown away when they see HDR games and video, frankly. It’s a pretty big difference.”

‘I’m not trying to turn PC gamers into console gamers’
Spencer is not keen on that supposition. “PC gaming and console gaming are different, and the customer segments have capabilities and expectations that are unique to the platforms they play on,” he says. “With Xbox and Windows, there are some common things that we can put in the hands of creators and gamers – like Xbox Live, like your friends list – that help unify your gaming experience and put you at the centre as the player.

“But I bristle at the idea we’re bringing the platforms ‘together’. It’s not that I’m trying to turn PC gamers into console gamers or console gamers into PC gamers. We just know, and I’m sure you’re tracking it, the health of PC gaming is incredibly high right now, and we know some of our best and most active customers on Xbox One are also PC gamers – so we see this opportunity to service the customer and where they actually play, and they want to stay connected to their friends wherever they are. Things like Xbox Play Anywhere are really about choice and where they want to play. So if you’re at school and want to play a couple of rounds of a game and then you go back home and want to continue on your couch, that seems normal. Every other kind of media – your music, your movies – everything else works that way.

VR – the future, as usual, is hazy
One element of the future that Microsoft is not so certain on is virtual reality. Unlike Sony, the company has not developed its own headset, concentrating instead on augmented reality via its Hololens project. It has a partnership with Oculus, and we’ve seen the excellent virtual reality version of Minecraft that runs on Rift and Windows 10 PC. Furthermore, at E3 we saw Phil Spencer on stage saying, “The next step change for gamers and developers must deliver true 4K gaming and high-fidelity VR.”

So was VR support a key part of the Scorpio vision? “I think the capability in the consoles that are on the market today to play high-fidelity true console-like experiences in VR ... they’re just not powerful enough,” he says. “To deliver the experience that console gamers expect, that’s really a six-teraflop problem at least. You kind of need to get there.”

But there’s a problem here. Microsoft has said that there will be no Project Scorpio exclusives, that all games will be compatible across the whole range. But if publishers begin to create high-end virtual reality titles that will only run on Scorpio-level hardware – that’s market fragmentation, right? “I will say, we’re very focused on console games and what console gamers want, and I see VR as something different,” he says. “Like, other people might try to say, ‘VR is the future of console gaming.’ I’m not saying that. I’m saying if you’re an Xbox One console gamer, we are so focused on making your experience the best experience you’ve ever had with the best lineup of games. We’re not getting distracted.”

Perhaps then, we’re looking at a future market where Xbox One titles will feature VR modes and augmentations that will only be accessible to Scorpio owners – but not a future where we’ll see totally dedicated VR titles. If this at first seems limiting and appears to show a company attempting to sideline VR, there are interesting hints that this is not the case. When asked about the idea of multiplayer VR games and virtual social spaces like AltSpaceVR running on Xbox, Ybarra is unguardedly enthusiastic. “We’re focused right now on what we announced on Scorpio, but Xbox Live and VR opens a lot of doors that we’re looking into for sure,” he says. “The opportunity of VR and Xbox Live together is boundless – we’re just starting to consider what that will look like. We have teams looking at what’s coming and how we apply that.”
 

Cyborg

Member
Well, those are retailing at $399. With Xbox One S, at $299, you’re getting 4K Blu-ray, a 4K upscaler for games and video

Are they realy using this wildcard?
 

Majine

Banned
The grand Xbox strategy is a noble one. I can now play Forza Horizon 3 on a PC where I previously probably couldn't. But there are holes. If it's theoretically purely a choice of how and where I want to play, why does Xbox Live Gold still exist? To make money for them of course, but it doesn't mesh with their outward facing message.
 

xblarcade

Member
Well, those are retailing at $399. With Xbox One S, at $299, you’re getting 4K Blu-ray, a 4K upscaler for games and video

Are they realy using this wildcard?

Why not??

Sure didn't hurt Sony when PS2 was the cheapest DVD player on the market.
 
I curious, I thought MS was all in on Hololens? what happened to that? why didn't they build a console for that experience? They trotted that shit out last year for nothing only to co-op someone elses movement. Such a weak move in my opinion, and y'all act like that shit never happened.
 
“I will say, we’re very focused on console games and what console gamers want, and I see VR as something different,” [Phil Spencer] says. “Like, other people might try to say, ‘VR is the future of console gaming.’ I’m not saying that. I’m saying if you’re an Xbox One console gamer, we are so focused on making your experience the best experience you’ve ever had with the best lineup of games. We’re not getting distracted.”
WTF. They specifically talked about Scorpio doing VR in their conference.
 

theWB27

Member
Well, those are retailing at $399. With Xbox One S, at $299, you’re getting 4K Blu-ray, a 4K upscaler for games and video

Are they realy using this wildcard?

Is there something wrong with letting people know they can get new tech cheaper in a box that does more than the typical player?

@backbreaker

I could've sworn gaming was never the focus and they said it's just not ready to be that kind of product.
 
Slightly OT, but if you buy games from the windows store can you play them with anyone who has a PC copy, or only people who also have the windows store version? Also do you have to pay for XBL to play online or is it free?
 

Iacobellis

Junior Member
Well, those are retailing at $399. With Xbox One S, at $299, you’re getting 4K Blu-ray, a 4K upscaler for games and video

Are they realy using this wildcard?

How's this any different from Sony pushing a new disc format with each PlayStation?
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
The argument about there being so many indies that it's better to announce a new machine at E3 is ridiculous. MS has a huge developer relations team that is perfectly capable of letting devs know about a new machine coming and what to expect etc. Far more likely they didn't want it leaking before they went public - which didn't work anyway.

Also stating that global indies are important is fine, but it's not like MS has been super great in that sector generally, so if they needed to they could easily just inform the big accounts and leave the indies until after a later public launch.
 

flkraven

Member
The argument about there being so many indies that it's better to announce a new machine at E3 is ridiculous. MS has a huge developer relations team that is perfectly capable of letting devs know about a new machine coming and what to expect etc. Far more likely they didn't want it leaking before they went public - which didn't work anyway.

Also stating that global indies are important is fine, but it's not like MS has been super great in that sector generally, so if they needed to they could easily just inform the big accounts and leave the indies until after a later public launch.

I agree with the bolded. The leaks were already pouring out, so may as well announce it up front and control the messaging.
 

xrnzaaas

Member
The grand Xbox strategy is a noble one. I can now play Forza Horizon 3 on a PC where I previously probably couldn't. But there are holes. If it's theoretically purely a choice of how and where I want to play, why does Xbox Live Gold still exist? To make money for them of course, but it doesn't mesh with their outward facing message.

Yep, playing online should be free on all connected platforms. I would see Xbox Live Gold surviving if they relied on Games with Gold and Deals with Gold and kept features like cloud saving or taking screenshots behind a paywall.
 
WTF. They specifically talked about Scorpio doing VR in their conference.

There's nothing in this article about not supporting VR. It seems they just aren't doing another Kinect type situation where their development budget goes into something else at the expense of traditional gaming. Thank goodness.
 
I curious, I thought MS was all in on Hololens? what happened to that? why didn't they build a console for that experience? They trotted that shit out last year for nothing only to co-op someone elses movement. Such a weak move in my opinion, and y'all act like that shit never happened.

Hololens isn't a gaming / consumer targetted device... Right now it's aimed at enterprise scenarios, it's not really for gaming although obviously games exist for it and will be created for it. Hololens is a standalone device, isn't tethered to any other hardware so "creating a console for it" doesn't make sense. It's also still very much on the way - as an enterprise device, as always planned, dev kits are out with developers now and we're building stuff for people on it today.
 

DryvBy

Member
Yep, playing online should be free on all connected platforms. I would see Xbox Live Gold surviving if they relied on Games with Gold and Deals with Gold and kept features like cloud saving or taking screenshots behind a paywall.

This. These services as a service rather than paying to play online. Playing online, party chats, and all of that should be free.

I keep hearing HDR as a bullet point now. Am I missing something? That tech is super old unless it's not high-dynamic range.
 
The argument about there being so many indies that it's better to announce a new machine at E3 is ridiculous. MS has a huge developer relations team that is perfectly capable of letting devs know about a new machine coming and what to expect etc. Far more likely they didn't want it leaking before they went public - which didn't work anyway.

Also stating that global indies are important is fine, but it's not like MS has been super great in that sector generally, so if they needed to they could easily just inform the big accounts and leave the indies until after a later public launch.

Yeah I'm sure he said in another interview that basically it was all starting to leak anyway, so may as well get it out there instead of having it being gossiped about and having to deny that it existed.

I agree with the bolded. The leaks were already pouring out, so may as well announce it up front and control the messaging.

Indeed.
 
Well, those are retailing at $399. With Xbox One S, at $299, you’re getting 4K Blu-ray, a 4K upscaler for games and video

Are they realy using this wildcard?

I'm not sure what you mean by wildcard, can you explain? When I watched the announcement I was absolutely sold by the 4k blu ray capability. I've had 4k TVs for 2 years and watched almost no 4k content up to this point. I haven't been able to justify spending $400 on a box that only plays 4k and nothing else.
 
Hololens isn't a gaming / consumer targetted device... Right now it's aimed at enterprise scenarios, it's not really for gaming although obviously games exist for it and will be created for it. Hololens is a standalone device, isn't tethered to any other hardware so "creating a console for it" doesn't make sense. It's also still very much on the way - as an enterprise device, as always planned, dev kits are out with developers now and we're building stuff for people on it today.

Don't want to hear that after fact rhetoric, they trotted that thing out at E3(gaming) with MineCraft and HALO(gaming). Put your cape on for the right cause captain.
 
The argument about there being so many indies that it's better to announce a new machine at E3 is ridiculous. MS has a huge developer relations team that is perfectly capable of letting devs know about a new machine coming and what to expect etc. Far more likely they didn't want it leaking before they went public - which didn't work anyway.

Also stating that global indies are important is fine, but it's not like MS has been super great in that sector generally, so if they needed to they could easily just inform the big accounts and leave the indies until after a later public launch.

Leaving the indies until later is exactly what they did with the XB1 and there were a lot of developers that weren't happy with that. The way they're handling it with Scorpio is the way it needs to be done in my opinion. They can get the info out to as many developers that want it without having to try to plug holes along the way. It's the smartest move.
 

Xbudz

Member
So if the Xbox One S does the upscale to 4K, your TV wont because the signal is already 4k. I just hope the One S upscaler is high quality.
 

jdmonmou

Member
There's nothing in this article about not supporting VR. It seems they just aren't doing another Kinect type situation where their development budget goes into something else at the expense of traditional gaming. Thank goodness.
I think it would be smart for them to work out a deal with Oculus to put their Oculus Home marketplace on the Scorpio. That way you can provide VR games on the Scorpio without technically having Scorpio exclusive games that would leave original Xbox One gamers behind.
 

harSon

Banned
The argument about there being so many indies that it's better to announce a new machine at E3 is ridiculous. MS has a huge developer relations team that is perfectly capable of letting devs know about a new machine coming and what to expect etc. Far more likely they didn't want it leaking before they went public - which didn't work anyway.

Also stating that global indies are important is fine, but it's not like MS has been super great in that sector generally, so if they needed to they could easily just inform the big accounts and leave the indies until after a later public launch.

Did I not read exactly that?

There’s much more appreciation for – and even reliance on – the vast, global independent sector, and it’s unlikely Microsoft would have kept its new platform secret for long while communicating with such a large community. So the thinking was perhaps, why not go big? Why not light the powder keg at the biggest show in gaming?
 
I really liked the details they fleshed out about Looking for groups, clubs and arena. I think with that infomration i might use all of them!
 

Kayant

Member
“I will say, we’re very focused on console games and what console gamers want, and I see VR as something different,” he says. “Like, other people might try to say, ‘VR is the future of console gaming.’ I’m not saying that. I’m saying if you’re an Xbox One console gamer, we are so focused on making your experience the best experience you’ve ever had with the best lineup of games. We’re not getting distracted.”
That sure is one long winded way of saying there will be Scorpio VR exclusives.
 
Arena could be good especially with the likes of FIFA

Yeah its going to be exciting if they can keep up the mindshare about this. Overall everything with the new features. Im really happy they are making it very easy to use. From what ybarra is saying, it feels as if itll become second nature when loading up my xbox or xbox app.

I can already see clubs for all GAF gamers like FifaGAF DestinyGAF HaloGAF and etc.

Looking for groups will also provide notifications. The little amount of details he also said about filtering/requesting is neat.

Cant wait to see more as e3 didnt give me any excitement.
 

TronLight

Everybody is Mikkelsexual
This. These services as a service rather than paying to play online. Playing online, party chats, and all of that should be free.

I keep hearing HDR as a bullet point now. Am I missing something? That tech is super old unless it's not high-dynamic range.

It's not the "HDR setting" videogames have had for ages. It's a new tech for displays.
 

flkraven

Member
Don't want to hear that after fact rhetoric, they trotted that thing out at E3(gaming) with MineCraft and HALO(gaming). Put your cape on for the right cause captain.

Cool your jets big guy. The also showed illumiroom ages ago and nothing came of it. They show concepts all the time, and at no point did they say this was consumer ready. Heck, whenever discussion of actually selling this came up they actually said the opposite. That the tech is super expensive right now since it's entirely wireless. Don't know why you are getting bent out of shape here.
 
Don't want to hear that after fact rhetoric, they trotted that thing out at E3(gaming) with MineCraft and HALO(gaming). Put your cape on for the right cause captain.

"Put your cape on", c'mon dude you're better than that silly fanboy rhetoric.

I work at Microsoft in Enterprise software dev with people who develop for Hololens on a daily basis - so I tend to see a lot more about Hololens than most people. It's never been announced as primarily a gaming device and E3 wasn't the first or last time the world saw it.

You said Microsoft "should have built a console for it" (doesn't make sense, it doesn't tether to anything) and that there was somehow backtracking / abandoning of it (also not true).

Minecraft's a really cool way to demo the technology. Whether it should have been on stage at E3 given its focus, I'll let others debate, but that wasn't the point I was replying to.
 

wapplew

Member
Well, those are retailing at $399. With Xbox One S, at $299, you’re getting 4K Blu-ray, a 4K upscaler for games and video

Are they realy using this wildcard?

If Sony don't provide alternative at similar price point, I could see them winning NA back.
 

GavinGT

Banned
WTF. They specifically talked about Scorpio doing VR in their conference.

He's not saying the Scorpio won't do VR games.

"I see VR as something different" is his way of saying that VR games will be Scorpio-only (even though they've said all games will be compatible with all Xbox Ones).
 

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
They probably revealed Scorpio so soon hoping to keep customers from being tempted to switch to PS when the Neo comes out.

I mean it's such a transparent move that it's hilarious they try to justify it in any other way. Saying they wanted to reach out to devs is stupid considering they have zero documentation or plans for devs to even try to develop for Scorpio. It's still a ways away from being tangible.
 
Top Bottom