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Phil Spencer on VR "Right now feels like Demos and Experiments"
- Thread starter Guerrilla
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ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
It exceeded Sony's sales expectation. In fact HTC and Oculus are happy with their own sales so far as well. They have a very conservative expectation (due to the price) and they are still in the midst of rolling out their headsets to more country.
We will have more info on Microsoft's partner vr headsets in Dec too with inside out tracking. Nvidia has released 1050 card that cost $100+, Oculus announcing Santa Cruz Prototype headset (inside out tracking), Asynchronous Spacewarp technology that lower VR-ready PC cost from $999 last year to $499 this year etc.
The VR infrastructure is building up pretty well i say.
There are times when someone is just plain wrong, this is one of those times.
RowdyReverb
Member
Makes me feel less bad about not being able to afford a headset (not that I have the room anyway). Maybe when VR is "here", I'll be able to afford a headset and hardware capable of running it.
Yeah? You would recommend to your friends spending 400 on the headset + 90 on the Moves + 50 on the camera + 20 per game so 580$ fpr just 2 games? Is playing rez vr really worth 290$? Im not arguing that there are great experiences to be had, but i currently cant recommend it to my friends in good conscience due to the price, the limitations and current library of games.
travisbickle
Member
Is that in the US?
I'm in Korea and can't find one at RRP, just scalpers. And I have friends with the same issues in the U.K. Read here it's similar in Japan.
I would probably agree. What I've played of VR didn't do much for me other than a creeping sense of nausea. It was all short term gimmick stuff to me, nothing massively compelling yet other than perhaps Farpoint which gave me a real sense of how amazing VR can be, whilst making me feel like I'm overbalancing all the time.
Of course, once MS are involved in VR, regardless of the gimmick level I fully expect Phil to change his tune.
Of course, once MS are involved in VR, regardless of the gimmick level I fully expect Phil to change his tune.
So basically hololens is superior but just in case vr starting to take off we'll do the usual bringing alot of money late to the game.
He doesn't dare saying that their solution is superior and will give it full supports. Instead half ass half step pr talk.
Well pr guy zero substance as usual I guess.
He doesn't dare saying that their solution is superior and will give it full supports. Instead half ass half step pr talk.
Well pr guy zero substance as usual I guess.
katsubento
Member
Well, as a PSVR owner, I welcome the experiments. I can honestly say that some are more fun than actual traditional games. Not all, but there are some gems already.
Bring it on.
Bring it on.
panda-zebra
Banned
I totally get that, I suppose having 2 ps4s set up, one with the VR and one without, I don't have that hurdle (mostly I'm a bit too lazy to put it all away and can't actually remember using the other ps4 since I got psvr, hmmm). Was trying to enjoy an hour of Hyper Void at the weekend and my son kept popping up prodding me, asking me things, pulling me out of it... best to stick to the social stuff when the family is around. And the wires, my wife detests wires so she's not the biggest fan on that front hah.
You bought some decent games, but nothing much with replayability. Windlands is one I can see myself spending many hours with and Tethered is the one a lot of the people in the psvr OT are spending time with. RIGS and Battlezone others that keep people at it, one because of multiplayer, the other 'cause it's hard as nails (although it had a patch to make easy easier).
Marty Chinn
Member
See I think using HTC and Oculus as an example shows that even though they are happy or even beyond expectations, the sales numbers are not huge nor would I call selling well. They're so small in fact that we all know PSVR probably outsold both within the first hour of sales. Without knowing what Sony's expectations are, it's hard to quantify how well it sold. I'm honestly surprised how easy it is to find only two weeks after release.
Ya, in the US at least. I can buy it on Amazon, Best Buy, Target, Walmart and Gamestop right now.
Amazon was sold out for a week until they got another shipment yesterday. There is only the core headset available which it seems people don't want it because it doesn't have the camera. On gamstop bestsellers their own 2 bundles are top 10 best sellers.
VR was going to be slow burn anyway but I think it's doing well.
What a nonsensical post. Is there anything he said that is false?
AbandonedTrolley
Member
Some games do feel like demos I'll give him that, but others feel great DriveclubVR is brilliant, Tethered is good too. Thumper is a great rhythm game along with VR Worlds being a good example of possibilities. Also I'd love Rocksteady to really go all in and make a Batman game using the controls they did for the Arkham Experience.
El-Pistolero
Member
Somebody needs to buy the first generation systems for their to be an install base, a steady support by editors and a second generational wave. It does not happen thanks to fairy dust and incantations. Sony has hit the sweet spot in terms of pricing, ergonomics and performance, so I don't know what Phil is on about...
Marty Chinn
Member
I dunno, I've seen it frequently on Amazon over the last two weeks. It's not just since yesterday. You're right that Core Bundles are the only ones available, but I'm not sure if Launch Bundles got a restock other than selling the canceled and return orders. Without knowing the ratio of shipped units, it's hard to tell what that means. I'm not saying it's not selling; I'm just saying it's hard to say if it's selling well or not without numbers and seeing stock readily available. Of course "well" also is a vague definition too. I do hope it is selling because that will just mean developers will have more incentive to offer more titles on it.
Can we please move away from the tech demos terminology. Sure, there are tech demos, but many are simply short experiences, which does not disqualify them as games. Some of the most praised games in recent history are short experiences (without dipping too deep in the well, let's say Journey and Portal, or even Rez itself) Many PSVR games already offer comparable play times and depth as more traditional games (driveclub, rigs, battle zone, tethered, thumper, wind lands, tumble to name a few). And while the pricing is all over the board, many of these games are priced low enough to justify what they offer.
Sure, there's a long way to go, but it's disingenuous to lean on "a bunch of tech demos" to describe the current experience that PSVR offers.
Sure, there's a long way to go, but it's disingenuous to lean on "a bunch of tech demos" to describe the current experience that PSVR offers.
It's absolutely early adopter pricing. My buying decision was based on whether or not VR was just tech demos and gimmicks, and I think we at least have 2 examples that it isn't. Is Rez and Thumper worth all that much money? No, but when VR gets cheaper and more practical, Thumper and Rez will still be must have VR games.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
The thing is you are basing on your personal sales number with no research there, which is no different from expecting iphone6s sales from the first iphone launch.
They know ignorant people's going to jump to conclusion by declaring VR is dead because 1st gen vr headsets didnt sell mainstream number without 6 months. No reason to give them the bullet when we are at the stage where many people still havent heard of VR nor try it yet to know its appeal.
Breakfast at Noon
Member
No shit Phil it's new tech.
I'm sure when they do it their tech demos and experiences will be more "substantial" and "meaningful" won't they Phil.
Guy is a nob.
I'm sure when they do it their tech demos and experiences will be more "substantial" and "meaningful" won't they Phil.
Guy is a nob.
panda-zebra
Banned
Well that's your opinion, and you're entitled to it, but that's not how people who have bought psvr see things. In fact I don't recall anyone who's bought one saying that here or elsewhere. Like your opinion that TiF2 isn't a flop, current evidence suggests otherwise.
And when was Kinect ever technically impressive for gaming? The lag killed any serious gaming aspirations. Try some ultra-responsive 60, 90 and 120Hz gaming in psvr before writing it off as unsupported tech demos and mobile games.
Wow, people get offended over nothing.
He's 100% correct: currently the majority of the software is in the experimental stages. They've designed their system to support VR, and their system doesn't come out for another year. So what's so offensive about supporting the VR platform when the market is ready for it?
His 'tune' is that they'll get involved when the software has mass market appeal. So it's not his tune that needs changing, it's the VR market- which he suspects will improve with time.
He's 100% correct: currently the majority of the software is in the experimental stages. They've designed their system to support VR, and their system doesn't come out for another year. So what's so offensive about supporting the VR platform when the market is ready for it?
His 'tune' is that they'll get involved when the software has mass market appeal. So it's not his tune that needs changing, it's the VR market- which he suspects will improve with time.
Sanctuary
Member
Even though there is probably a lot of truth behind that, he's not wrong for now.
Resident Evil 7 appears to be the first big AAA title to be VR compatible for consoles. I want to say maybe the sales of that game could be defining point, but it's going to sell regardless.
Would it be possible for Capcom/Sony to track how many people are actually playing the game using VR? That specific data could say a lot based on the number of copies sold-to-VR utilization ratio.
Would it be possible for Capcom/Sony to track how many people are actually playing the game using VR? That specific data could say a lot based on the number of copies sold-to-VR utilization ratio.
Yeah its the same for me with the cables, if I would leave it out my wife would pack everything away within an hour
I heard some good stuff of tethered and windlands also looks neat. Rigs however seems to me like a mediocre game, I wouldn't even have touched it if not for vr and there are way better multiplayer games out right now and battlezone really didn't click with me.Thing is, there are so many great games coming out right now and the games out on VR are just exciting cause they are in VR. They all seem like rather mediocre experiences when you take the novelty away. I really need that 8-10 hour narrative experience that's currently just not there. If Arkham VR was an 8 hour game with some more meaty puzzle elements I could see something like that being what I'm currently missing. Maybe/hopefully Robinson on the 9th will cover that base
Marty Chinn
Member
I'm basing it on ease of availability and knowing how nobody tries to over produce units to place into the market because of a number of factors. Selling well to me would have been sold out for at least a few weeks which means Sony couldn't keep up with the initial demand. But hey maybe they shipped 10 million and they sold 8 million of them. So without actually having numbers it's hard to quantify. So I think either way it's hard to say how well it is selling or how well it isn't selling. Based on all the hype about Oculus and Vive, and how hard it was to get them, and how fast they sold out, you would have thought the numbers would have been higher, so even selling out isn't an indicator.
ronaldthump
Member
Mmmm!
Hololens!
There's plenty of full games. And of course there's experiments. Its a new platform.
Hololens!
There's plenty of full games. And of course there's experiments. Its a new platform.
freefornow
Member
That's the spirit!
I know right!!! Just like 3DTVs were ready for when real 3D content arrived!
They're still waiting
ronaldthump
Member
dont support the tech, no iterative improvements = no holodeck for you!
So should we compare any new technology to 3DTV or any other failed tech? because if we do that, not a single new technology will be successful.
MS is definately involved in the experimental phase. Windows Holographic is their attempt to add their own inside-out spin to VR tracking.
And they've demoed Mahjong working on Minecraft VR.
They aren't taking a completely hands off approach. They just won't be releasing their own headset- not w/o established conventions and some killer gaming apps
Crayon
Member
Now that I think about it, gran turismo might be the first big game. Probably not, but it might. Driving sims are great in vr, but none of the other have the pull of that name.
Right now, cockpit sims are the only like... fully convincing ...type of game. You can spend many hours in that kind of game and they are undeniably enhanced to another level with a headset. Gran Turismo is the biggest one. It's going to sell some headsets.
I'd say phil is wrong due to existing vr cockpit sims. They are worth the money. If you have it.
Right now, cockpit sims are the only like... fully convincing ...type of game. You can spend many hours in that kind of game and they are undeniably enhanced to another level with a headset. Gran Turismo is the biggest one. It's going to sell some headsets.
I'd say phil is wrong due to existing vr cockpit sims. They are worth the money. If you have it.
Phil rufflin yall jimmies. And the interviewers as well lol
Kinect turned into the Dance Central box, he summarised.
Interviewer: He stopped, noticing I looked a bit hurt by that. I told Spencer I frequently use Kinect for the likes of Dance Central and Xbox Fitness.
Also talks a bit about the good and bad Kinect games.
Spider_Jerusalem
Member
Pretty much. I own almost every game for PS VR and I finished or got tired of each single one of them in a couple of hours. There are some really good experiences, but they really need to be fleshed out more. The only really content-packed game id Driveclub VR, but that blurred graphics ruin everything for me. Here's hoping Robinson will be a more enduring game.
Brutuspedia
Member
People saying there's nothing besides tech-demos on VR should really try RIGS.
"Real full game" fits better RIGS than Evolve, Battlefront and even Titanfall 1.
Good single player content, loads of unlockables, different modes, multiplayer, awesome VR immersion, great level design, good variety of mechs and weapons.
And the most important: it's FUN!
There's no way to have the same feeling of playing this in an ordinary TV.
As a matter of fact, I couldn't come back to any shooter after playing RIGS.
They seem... past-gen.
RE7 was the same thing, after playing in VR, it feels really boring on a regular TV, like a shitty port for an old console.
"Real full game" fits better RIGS than Evolve, Battlefront and even Titanfall 1.
Good single player content, loads of unlockables, different modes, multiplayer, awesome VR immersion, great level design, good variety of mechs and weapons.
And the most important: it's FUN!
There's no way to have the same feeling of playing this in an ordinary TV.
As a matter of fact, I couldn't come back to any shooter after playing RIGS.
They seem... past-gen.
RE7 was the same thing, after playing in VR, it feels really boring on a regular TV, like a shitty port for an old console.
You seem to be getting angry at something he hasn't said, but what you think he might possibly say in the future. For some reason I find that pretty funny.
Bitch Pudding
Member
First of all, we are in the very early stage of VR. PSVR had a successful launch for all we know, and now we are all eagerly waiting for news about new PSVR titles besides RE7 and GTS. Because at the end, it's the games library / constant flow of new VR titles which will decide PSVR's fate. Three weeks after PSVR's arrival is a liiiittle bit too soon to make any conclusion about how that will turn out.
But the thing here is: While MS and Nintendo are waiting on the sideline Sony is already gathering a lot of information about what works in VR and what doesn't, they learn a lot about technical implications and can design the next PS5 to address these issues, and of course they are building up their reputation as VR market and mind share leaders, both for consumers and game developers.
MS had high hopes for AR, but I suppose they realized by now that if any of the two, it's VR which is going to become the next big thing. That's why they keep telling people that Scorpio will be VR-ready, not AR-ready.
But the thing here is: While MS and Nintendo are waiting on the sideline Sony is already gathering a lot of information about what works in VR and what doesn't, they learn a lot about technical implications and can design the next PS5 to address these issues, and of course they are building up their reputation as VR market and mind share leaders, both for consumers and game developers.
MS had high hopes for AR, but I suppose they realized by now that if any of the two, it's VR which is going to become the next big thing. That's why they keep telling people that Scorpio will be VR-ready, not AR-ready.
MS only revealed their partners who are releasing VR headset, they aren't releasing one themselves. Also, Satya said that MS is focusing on MR (Mixed Reality).
Is Phil correct? I don't know but it sure seems that things are going slow in the VR world.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
I agree about the demos and experiments part. Thing is, though... these experiments are often more compelling than the best AAA non-VR games.
And he's basically saying that Scorpio VR is vaporware. That's disappointing.
And he's basically saying that Scorpio VR is vaporware. That's disappointing.
jellies_two
Member
Did Phil express this opinion about the Microsoft Surface?
captainraincoat
Banned
my unit is also now sitting in a box...the launch games were pretty much paid demos so im hoping that there are more fully fleshed out titles on the way otherwise i think my unit will be joining the giant pile of traded in/returned VR units at my EB games
What? You don't think MS is gathering that same information? It's not like Windows isn't the go to place for VR content. It's not like they aren't working closely with partners who are directly involved with VR hardware. It's not like their own studios aren't internally toying with VR.
A company doesn't have to assume the risk of releasing their own HMD in order to learn what does/doesn't work for VR.
Also, it's pretty clear that MS recognized that VR and AR will converge, that's why the headsets they've endorsed support both approaches simultaneously.
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