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[tonysidaway]

Same at the pool and instead of saying don't run give them an exact instruction like Walk.

Here's a true story. At the age of five I was in a class and we were all asked to pick up our chairs and move them to an adjacent room. I was a bit surprised to hear the teacher say "put the chairs on your heads." But I did so because she was in charge. Immediately I was told off for doing such a stupid thing. This puzzled me at the time.

In later life I have conjectured that I'd misheard her. Perhaps she had said "Don't put the chairs on your heads", with a pause for emphasis after "don't".

Instructing younger children is hard.

 

[LordKasual]

Me and my siblings say yes

Generations of living proof says yes

Technique, use, and thus effectiveness may vary however

 

[FiveSix4Three]

I don't believe it's evil/bad to spank a child, but there is a definite line that I witness too many people cross.

Walk around a Wal-mart for half an hour and I'm sure you'll find the wrong way to do it.

 

[QuantumZebra]

> Worried the cops will show up
> Solution is to hit kid.


Okaaaay.

>Takes everything said out of context
>Presents points that are irrelevant

When your neighbors are assholes that call the cops on you if your kid screams for more than 5 minutes, and the only way to snap them out of a temper tantrum is a smack on the bottom, then you do it.

You wanna judge people for that? L o l.

I'd bet $100 you don't have kids.

When and if you do, and they're screaming and breaking shit and going nuts, and the only method you have found is a smack on the bottom to snap them out of it, I hope someone judges you for it.

Bunch of self-righteous fuckbois in here. Christ.

No one Is advocating child abuse. Get off your high horses.

 

[Grug]

95% of the time the people who say they would never use physical punishment or hit their kids, don't have kids.

LMAO at the clearly fabricated statistic.

[

 

[RDreamer]

Me and my siblings say yes

Generations of living proof says yes

Technique, use, and thus effectiveness may vary however

You and your siblings have very biased anecdotal evidence that say yes.

Generations of proof in research says no.

I'd bet $100 you don't have kids.

When and if you do, and they're screaming and breaking shit and going nuts, and the only method you have found is a smack on the bottom to snap them out of it, I hope someone judges you for it.

Bunch of self-righteous fuckbois in here. Christ.

No one Is advocating child abuse. Get off your high horses.

I hope someone does judge me if I ever hit my kid. Because I'm not going to. Just like I hope someone judges me if I purposefully gave them a toy with lead paint or let them play in a knowingly asbestos filled room or encouraged them to play in the road.

People are indeed advocating child abuse. What else do you define doing something that knowingly has negative consequences?

I'm not on a high horse. I know most parents try their hardest. They're all going to fuck up at some point in time. I don't blame them when they fuck up, but I will blame them when they bullheadedly refute all available evidence and harm their child instead.

 

[Famassu]

One thing is a slap, another is beating the kid up. I agree with the first one.

A spanking/slap and punching are essentially the same. One might not physically damage the kid as much as the other, but they are abuse/violence that hurt the child all the same.

Just because you think you turned out ok means fuck all.

 

[proto]

I used to be 100% anti-physical punishment, but after I read Between the World and Me and I can definitely see why some parents feel like it's necessary, especially if you live in a violent neighborhood or just live in a violent reality.

In Between the World and Me, Ta-Nehisi Coates recollects a moment when he got beat up and got his bag taken away walking back from school. When he got back from home, his dad beat him again for not fighting back and letting them take his bag. Not because his dad was angry, but because Ta-Nehisi needed to fight back so that he didn't make himself a target for further violence.

I totally get that, if you grow up in an environment where violence is not just a possibility, but a reality, then you have to learn the right amount of violence needed to survive but not get into too much trouble.

That being said, if you're some rich parent in a peaceful suburb who beats their kid, fuck that. Learn to parent and communicate productively.

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

A spanking/slap and punching are essentially the same. One might not physically damage the kid as much as the other, but they are abuse/violence that hurt the child all the same.

Just because you think you turned out ok means fuck all.

A slap and a punch is the fucking same? Abusive? Ok. Just forget it.


I'll just quote this user.

I'd bet $100 you don't have kids.

When and if you do, and they're screaming and breaking shit and going nuts, and the only method you have found is a smack on the bottom to snap them out of it, I hope someone judges you for it.

Bunch of self-righteous fuckbois in here. Christ.

No one Is advocating child abuse. Get off your high horses.

 

[darscot]

There are situations that I feel making physical contact with a child is acceptable. I have never hit my child and never needed too. I think 99% of the time there are better ways to handle the situation. That being said I was on Safari in Africa staying with a family run outfit. The guys kid was fucking around and he gave him a bit of a swat. It was a light smack to get the kids attention. I don't know exactly how to describe the atmosphere but in a situation that primal, where not paying attention can get you eaten by a lion. That quick light smack seemed completely appropriate and functional. It also worked wonders on my kids and they new exactly where the line was drawn.

 

[Impeccable]

Bunch of self-righteous fuckbois in here. Christ.

No one Is advocating child abuse. Get off your high horses.

Hitting a child is by definition abuse. You are being ignorant intentionally or not on thinking that in any situation there isn't a better solution than physical violence.

This is why actual parenting classes would be a good thing, teach people the coping skills for behaviour problems and alternative solutions.

People - you can admit to being wrong. It's okay.

 

[Messofanego]

>Takes everything said out of context
>Presents points that are irrelevant

When your neighbors are assholes that call the cops on you if your kid screams for more than 5 minutes, and the only way to snap them out of a temper tantrum is a smack on the bottom, then you do it.

You wanna judge people for that? L o l.




I'd bet $100 you don't have kids.

When and if you do, and they're screaming and breaking shit and going nuts, and the only method you have found is a smack on the bottom to snap them out of it, I hope someone judges you for it.

Bunch of self-righteous fuckbois in here. Christ.

No one Is advocating child abuse. Get off your high horses.

What about the girls here, are they fuckbois too?

 

[SurrenderDorothy]

I used to genuinely think that "hey, I got hit when I was a child and I turned out alright."
But that was a lie, started noticing how I react to certain things regarding my parents.
An example would be that I always say "yes" because I was afraid to find out the alternative, not because I actually agreed.
Even if the request is something minuscule, I struggle to say "no", even then.
Even if I 100% disagree, I either keep my mouth shut or I'll just nod and walk away.
I wish I could, but I have this mental block that I can't get passed.
I'm a young adult and I still have this problem.
And I know for a fact that it had to do with getting beat and learning how to avoid that ever happening.

I'm not sure if I'm articulating my thoughts well regarding this topic, so I apologise if it isn't that coherent.
Seriously, just...don't hit your kids.

 

[Always-honest]

Me and my siblings say yes

Generations of living proof says yes

Technique, use, and thus effectiveness may vary however

Yes, people love to get a beating. And don't we all love the sound of shouting people?
I say we make statues of people hitting their children.
Are there cd-s we can buy with abusive sounds on there? I get so nostalgic when i hear lovely people screaming at their kids and hitting them.

 

[QuantumZebra]

Did you ask the cops to come in? Maybe having your child see the cops and have them talk to the screaming wonder would've been better than violence, lol Forgive me if I have a hard time believing the 3 hours thing, your kid must have incredible stamina to be able to behave that way non-stop for 3 hours. I've only ever had to experience such for maybe somewhere between 1 to 1,5 hours, and even that had its luls where he gathered his strength to begin screaming more loudly again.

Even if it was 3 hours, I'd still not hit a child. But that's just me. I have nerves of steel when it comes to children crying & screaming. It's the adults who whine about inconsequential things that I find infuriating.

Some people's kids are different? Wow?! Amazing.

Oh and you want me to invite cops into my house? The same cops that are on U.S. news 24/7 for shooting people's dogs, or people themselves, or arresting people for crazy shit? Yea, OK.

Let me just go and invite a situation like this: http://filmingcops.com/cop-shoots-i...-pet-dog-receives-paid-leave-with-no-charges/ into my home because self-righteous internet warriors have opinions on things they don't understand.

Hitting a child is by definition abuse. You are being ignorant intentionally or not on thinking that in any situation there isn't a better solution than physical violence.

This is why actual parenting classes would be a good thing, teach people the coping skills for behaviour problems and alternative solutions.

People - you can admit to being wrong. It's okay.

I love seeing self-righteous tools that don't know what they're talking about pretend that their opinions are facts so that they can judge others in order to feel slightly superior.

What about the girls here, are they fuckbois too?

If they have the same stupid-ass opinions as the guys saying "Punching a kid in the face and smacking them on the bottom = totally the same" then yes.

 

[Famassu]

A slap and a punch is the fucking same? Abusive? Ok. Just forget it.


I'll just quote this user.

If you do something that causes pain to a child, it's abuse. Doesn't matter how noble your intentions were. If it would be considered violence towards someone who isn't your child, then it's violence towards your child.

 

[Messofanego]

I love seeing self-righteous tools that don't know what they're talking about pretend that their opinions are facts so that they can judge others in order to feel slightly superior.

So we've established that anyone who disagrees with you is a self-righteous fuckboi and a tool. Got any more personal insults?

 

[RDreamer]

I love seeing self-righteous tools that don't know what they're talking about pretend that their opinions are facts so that they can judge others in order to feel slightly superior.

Jesus christ man. There have been countless people in this thread who have their own children stating they don't hit and it's turned out fine. There have been countless people raised by parents that don't hit and they are fine. No one's saying this in order to feel superior. They're saying this shit because they don't want children getting the negative effects that all available research says comes with getting hit.

Again, if I tell you that you shouldn't give your child a lead paint toy am I trying to feel slightly superior or am I trying to tell you not to harm your child?

 

[Septimius]

Also in this thread - parents believing that because they have in fact had children they somehow were now certified and above criticism

Not to mention that having kids is so hard that you can be physical with them. And you just don't get why.

 

[QuantumZebra]

Jesus christ man. There have been countless people in this thread who have their own children stating they don't hit and it's turned out fine. There have been countless people raised by parents that don't hit and they are fine. No one's saying this in order to feel superior. They're saying this shit because they don't want children getting the negative effects that all available research says comes with getting hit.

Again, if I tell you that you shouldn't give your child a lead paint toy am I trying to feel slightly superior or am I trying to tell you not to harm your child?

So knowingly poisoning your child is the same as giving them a light smack on the bottom to snap them out of a temper tantrum?

We've gone deep, now, folks.

So we've established that anyone who disagrees with you is a self-righteous fuckboi and a tool. Got any more personal insults?

If people want to tell myself and others that they are Adrian Peterson on crack for giving their kid a smack on the bottom when they go ballistic, then yea, I've got plenty.

--

The best part of all you soapbox jumping self-righteous clowns is that I have already stated I don't even spank my daughters at all anymore. Time out is way more effective past age 3.5. Before that they don't hear words, and if you leave them to "cry it out" then you end up with cops at your door depending on your neighbors. But none of that matters when you have people to judge, amirite?

 

[Red]

.

 

[Impeccable]

I love seeing self-righteous tools that don't know what they're talking about pretend that their opinions are facts so that they can judge others in order to feel slightly superior.

Yeah, okay - a father with a special needs child who is six year old who has temper (violent) tantrums like a two year old during any major transition who has never hit my child.

A father who went out of his way to contact behaviour specialists for assistance because he knew there was and is other ways than violence.

Married to a vice principal with her Master's in Education who before working way through the education system was fully qualified to instruct early child hood educators she also has her specialist degree in special education.

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

You're painting the world as black and white, even as you say it's complex. Now you imply that the only alternative to hitting children is to coddle them. Do you realise that this is what you're saying?

No, you came to that conclusion after glossing over my original post and ignoring all context. I gave one single example of where people tried to go all in on the idea that positive reinforcement leads to better outcomes. Maybe there's a way to make it work, but that particular method failed.

One point I keep bringing up but is completely ignored is that of the fact that ANY punishment can lead to similar outcomes as spanking your kid be it screaming at your kid too much, putting your kid in time out too much/too long, or shaming them for their actions. We as a society are always refining our definitions of what's considered acceptable levels of consequence in the face of behavior and the one thing that stays true is that some harm always has to exist or things turn to chaos. Going further, most look at the words anxiety and loss of confidence as a universal bad thing, but sometimes I wonder how true that is on the whole. That's why this is all so complicated.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

Coming from an Hispanic family my mom is a ninja throwing her flip flops at me.. I guess I turned out fine. My father would just give me the most evil stare or raise his voice but never put his hands on me.

A good spanking and such is not a big deal.. now during my childhood I saw people get whipped with belts but it was common thing back then (not acceptable) but most of friends are grateful for such.

 

[ApharmdX]

>Takes everything said out of context
>Presents points that are irrelevant

When your neighbors are assholes that call the cops on you if your kid screams for more than 5 minutes, and the only way to snap them out of a temper tantrum is a smack on the bottom, then you do it.

You wanna judge people for that? L o l.

I'd bet $100 you don't have kids.

When and if you do, and they're screaming and breaking shit and going nuts, and the only method you have found is a smack on the bottom to snap them out of it, I hope someone judges you for it.

Bunch of self-righteous fuckbois in here. Christ.

No one Is advocating child abuse. Get off your high horses.

Amen. A-fucking-men.

Did you ask the cops to come in? Maybe having your child see the cops and have them talk to the screaming wonder would've been better than violence, lol Forgive me if I have a hard time believing the 3 hours thing, your kid must have incredible stamina to be able to behave that way non-stop for 3 hours. I've only ever had to experience such for maybe somewhere between 1 to 1,5 hours, and even that had its luls where he gathered his strength to begin screaming more loudly again.

Even if it was 3 hours, I'd still not hit a child. But that's just me. I have nerves of steel when it comes to children crying & screaming. It's the adults who whine about inconsequential things that I find infuriating.

Wha... you think getting the cops involved is less severe than a swat on the ass? I'm a POC. My kids are POC. If I called the cops on my son, they might taze him. They might fucking shoot him dead.

Plus, that's not just irresponsible, it's lazy parenting.

Physical punishment is child abuse. There are no arguments to make it NOT abuse or to justify it.

Under US law, this statement is factually incorrect.

 

[RDreamer]

So knowingly poisoning your child is the same as giving them a light smack on the bottom to snap them out of a temper tantrum?

We've gone deep, now, folks.

Yes.

All available research and almost every single child psychologist says that spanking leads to negative effects and does not actually help teach. It's never suggested as a real solution.

Yes, it's absolutely the same thing. You are introducing possible far reaching negative effects to your child for no reason, despite all available evidence.

Let's not forget getting poisoning isn't 100%. Tons of kids grew up with lead paint toys and wound up perfectly fine outwardly at least. It's literally the same thing to me. We go through all this stuff to protect children from possible negative effects. We plug up outlets, put soft corners on things, we regulate what toys are made of, etc. But somehow despite all the evidence, hitting a child is still fine? Nope, it's the same thing to me.

 

[Grug]

Yeah, okay - a father with a special needs child who is six year old who has temper (violent) tantrums like a two year old during any major transition who has never hit my child.

A father who went out of his way to contact behaviour specialists for assistance because he knew there was and is other ways than violence.

Married to a vice principal with her Master's in Education who before working way through the education system was fully qualified to instruct early child hood educators she also has her specialist degree in special education.

Pipe down with your your credentials, knowledge and experience "fuckboi".

 

[LordKasual]

You and your siblings have very biased anecdotal evidence that say yes.

Generations of proof in research says no.

Me, my siblings, my parents, theirs before them, theirs before those. Tons of cultures use physical punishment to teach children respect and discipline. If you're saying they're all wrong, more power to you, but citing research for such a massively complex thing is honestly not worth much in this particular case.

For every parent who actually abused their child with physical punishment and caused psychological issues, there's another parent who lets their children run wild, causing a completely different set of psychological issues that still persist into adulthood.

No amount of research is going to ever give any of you an objective leg to stand on to say physical punishment is bad, morally wrong, or ineffective.

Yes, people love to get a beating. And don't we all love the sound of shouting people?

what are you even on

we're talking about raising children, not BDSM

 

[solomon]

Depends on the kid and how the parent is generally with them. My mom is super nice and any ass whooping I got (3 in my whole life) was pretty much deserved. She never beat me to beat me and the hits were never super serious, I could always tell she was holding back.

 

[F34R]

Coming from an Hispanic family my mom is a ninja throwing her flip flops at me.. I guess I turned out fine.

My abuela was brutal lol,. Watch George Lopez in one of his shows talk about child discipline in his family lol.

 

[QuantumZebra]

Amen. A-fucking-men.



Wha... you think getting the cops involved is less severe than a swat on the ass? I'm a POC. My kids are POC. If I called the cops on my son, they might taze him. They might fucking shoot him dead.

Plus, that's not just irresponsible, it's lazy parenting.



Under US law, this statement is factually incorrect.

Shit brother it's not even just POC. I already linked it in this thread but, even as a white lady you could end up dead (or at minimum your dog): http://filmingcops.com/cop-shoots-i...-pet-dog-receives-paid-leave-with-no-charges/

This is a domestic incident, but the point is (and we should all already know) that anytime a cop shows up at your house you are in a statistically significant position of being murdered or losing a loved one or pet.

But none of that matters when e-warriors gotta rage over a smack on the bottom.

Depends on the kid and how the parent is generally with them. My mom is super nice and any ass whooping I got (3 in my whole life) was pretty much deserved. She never beat me to beat me and the hits were never super serious, I could always tell she was holding back.

Well according to the e-warriors here your mother is an abuser and should have been locked up. She might as well have been punching your teeth in - its the same after all.

 

[WeirdoStalkerJr]

Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. Back in the early 90s my school still used the paddle. Taught me not to fuck around real quick.

 

[Mendrox]

Wouldnt hit a child, but back then there were two situations with my parents where in one Situation my mum held me up and screamed hell at me and the other time I was an annoying shit for most of the day and suddenly decided to jump into my dads balls. Got smacked on the ass a little bit but he was angry. Never happened again and changed for the better after that but i also realized that what I did was too much. I also never gave a shit about rewards or other punishments but after that nothing happened again.

 

[Famassu]

If they have the same stupid-ass opinions as the guys saying "Punching a kid in the face and smacking them on the bottom = totally the same" then yes.

In that they are both abuse, yes. It doesn't matter what body parts are involved or how big of a mark either leaves, they are both violence meant to cause "enough" physical pain to the child to discourage doing whatever they are doing. And deliberately causing physical pain to a child is wrong.

 

[snap0212]

Just fucking don't, ok?

What other explanation is there, then? It must be one or the other, because otherwise they wouldn't hit their children. Educate me on other options, please.

 

[RDreamer]

No amount of research is going to ever give any of you an objective leg to stand on to say physical punishment is bad, morally wrong, or ineffective.

This is some flat earth, climate change is a lie, anti-vaxxer stuff right here.

 

[Grug]

For every parent who actually abused their child with physical punishment and caused psychological issues, there's another parent who lets their children run wild, causing a completely different set of psychological issues that still persist into adulthood.

Wow, quite the false dichotomy you've established there.

The thread isn't about choosing between hitting your kid or total laissez faire non-discipline of your child.

It's about physical methods of discipline vs non physical methods of discipline.

 

[QuantumZebra]

This is some flat earth, climate change is a lie, anti-vaxxer stuff right here.

So first smacking a kid on the bottom = beating them mercilessly = poisoning them with lead?

Now believing that sometimes physical punishment is necessary = you're the same as an anti-vaxxer (a danger to everyone and their own child)?

You need help.

Fuck you.

Literally, fuck you.

 

[Meowster]

I liked how my parents did it lol. We got the choice of a quick spanking or a tablespoon of the spiciest horseradish sauce I can remember.

 

[Impeccable]

So first smacking a kid on the bottom = beating them mercilessly = poisoning them with lead

Now believing that sometimes physical punishment is necessary = you're the same as an anti-vaxxer (a danger to everyone and their own child)?

Fuck you.

Literally, fuck you.

You called me out and I answered you and you suddenly start ignoring me.

 

[F34R]

Shit brother it's not even just POC. I already linked it in this thread but, even as a white lady you could end up dead (or at minimum your dog): http://filmingcops.com/cop-shoots-i...-pet-dog-receives-paid-leave-with-no-charges/

This is a domestic incident, but the point is (and we should all already know) that anytime a cop shows up at your house you are in a statistically significant position of being murdered or losing a loved one or pet.

But none of that matters when e-warriors gotta rage over a smack on the bottom.



Well according to the e-warriors here your mother is an abuser and should have been locked up. She might as well have been punching your teeth in - its the same after all.

I was called to a LOT of houses to deal with disobedient children. It always helped. The kids really liked me and talking to them about the same thing their parents were trying to get through to them was something that helped a lot.

I would go to the neighborhoods and walk around and talk to the kids while they were out playing, played basketball with them, flag football, baseball, kickball, taught 4 square... almost all the kids in our neighborhoods knew me. I never had much issue getting in touch with them when their parents needed help.

Even in their teens when they were a little more aggressive towards their parents, I could still get through to them. I always left my duty belt in the car. No gun, tazer. Just me, in uniform. Wasn't always pretty, and had to fight a kid once, but 99.9% of the time, it was ok.

 

[snap0212]

No amount of research is going to ever give any of you an objective leg to stand on to say physical punishment is bad, morally wrong, or ineffective.

Holy shit. Please, take one semester of psychology or something. Seriously, if you go to University to study psychology, it'll quite literally be part of your psych 101 class.

 

[QuantumZebra]

I liked how my parents did it lol. We got the choice of a quick spanking or a tablespoon of the spiciest horseradish sauce I can remember.

Your parents should be in jail for life if you didn't know it already, just FYI. I learned that in here today.

They're the same as parents who poison their kids with lead or anti-vaxxers.

Holy shit. Please, take one semester of psychology or something. Seriously, if you go to University to study psychology, it'll quite literally be part of your psych 101 class.

I have a degree in Sociology and a minor in Psych.

Sometimes physical punishment is necessary.

Did that burst your bubble?

 

[grmlin]

Of course do I have children, of course do they drive me fucking crazy.

I never thought I would have to beat/slap/hurt them in any fucking way to get them back on planet earth.
I mean, I would inform the police / youth welfare office if I would see someone hurting children. It's illegal for a reason.

 

[RDreamer]

So first smacking a kid on the bottom = beating them mercilessly = poisoning them with lead?

Now believing that sometimes physical punishment is necessary = you're the same as an anti-vaxxer (a danger to everyone and their own child)?

You need help.

Fuck you.

Literally, fuck you.

I stand by what I said. People have survived just fine outwardly with lead toys. You're not a fucking scientist or researcher so you would have no clue. Researchers deemed that lead is too dangerous just like every piece of research available says not to hit them. By hitting your child you are poisoning them. The negative effects aren't just to the child, either. They affect how that child deals with social constructs and the rest of humanity. It's the same as being an anti-vaxxer.

I do need help. I search out help to raise my child. I know that I do not have the perspective and knowledge that a study or that expertise can give, and so I search out available research and expert opinions, something that apparently others do not.

Your parents should be in jail for life if you didn't know it already, just FYI. I learned that in here today.

They're the same as parents who poison their kids with lead or anti-vaxxers.

For fuck's sake. No one's dragging someone's grandpa out to jail because they gave a kid a lead paint toy. That's the same here. They didn't know any better and they did something that now is known to be bad. What's your excuse, exactly?

 

[snap0212]

I have a degree in Sociology and a minor in Psych.

Sometimes physical punishment is necessary.

Did that burst your bubble?

I don't believe you. No research indicates that (well, there's one study from Israel, but that one is highly disputed). The consensus clearly points in one direction. I'd like to see your sources.

 

[Mailbox]

So first smacking a kid on the bottom = beating them mercilessly = poisoning them with lead?

Now believing that sometimes physical punishment is necessary = you're the same as an anti-vaxxer (a danger to everyone and their own child)?

Yeah, its the same level of anchor biased bullshit where people bend over backwards to say "its a good thing that im doing something morbid".

You need to stop with this nonsense. Its time to stop.

You need help.

Fuck you.

Literally, fuck you.

Honestly... sounds like your the one that needs it buddy.

 

[Impeccable]

I have a degree in Sociology and a minor in Psych.

Sometimes physical punishment is necessary.

Did that burst your bubble?

Did my post burst yours?

 

[Grug]

I have a degree in Sociology and a minor in Psych.

Sometimes physical punishment is necessary.

Did that burst your bubble?

What psychological assessments would you apply to someone who is hurling "fuck you, fuck you" invective on the internet at someone who merely holds a different opinion to them?

 

[tonysidaway]

Ah yes, always someone that knows what you're doing better than you.

But funny enough wouldn't ya know - we tried that! And the cops showed up because of screaming bloody murder for 3 hours.

...

ITT: people without kids having opinions on things they've never experienced.

We had similar situations sometimes. People hear your child screaming blue murder and they call the police, who come to check. I never had a problem with that.

No police officer ever advised us to hit our children to make them stop screaming, which is just as well.

So yeah, you may notice I have an opinion on this. And I've been through it.

Edit: I take on board several comments from (I presume) American posters, particularly people of colour. In the UK the police aren't very heavily armed when on duty. At most they'll have a baton, a can of CS, a taser and a pair of handcuffs. They ask to come in, you let them in, and you show them around. They're very polite. They leave if there is no evidence of a crime being committed. Only specialist units use guns, and the rules governing their deployment are very strict.

I can't imagine what a nightmare it would be to not be able to trust the people whose job is to protect me. I can only say: your problems go much deeper than whether or not to hit a child.