• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Planning a trip to Vegas. Advice?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Veezy

que?
As a citizen of the city....

1. Don't gamble at expensive tables unless you're rich. It's not worth it. Head downtown if you're gonna blow you're money at random.
2. As expensive as shit is, it's not the food or liquor or gambling (if you're smart) that kills your wallet. It's tipping. If you're not an ass hole, bring around 50 in ones. Valets get $2-$5. Same with the person taking your bags to and from the room. Tip your bartender and your drinks won't suck. If you go to the strip club, tip them too.
3. On the point of liquor, if you're stay at a resort, just bring drinks in from the liquor store and get tipsy in your room. No sense in paying for the markup if you can avoid it. On that note, stay away from convenience stores and the shops in the hotel/resort. Try to get to a Smith's (grocery store) get your bottled water, some snacks, and liquor/beer and bring it back. You'll save a lot of money that way. P.S. Everything that's already in your room that's not soap is probably not free, so avoid opening it.
4. Don't get mixed drinks. Straight liquor is going to do you better.
5. Spend some time Red Rock and Boulder City. Very chill places.
6. Casa di Amore is a great Italian joint. The guy that plays live music, George Bugatti, is a fantastic old school crooner. The Cracked Egg is good for breakfast.
7. Don't eat at the casinos if you can avoid it, hella expensive.
8. Be careful about your shopping. Do not shop in the casinos, go to the Town Square Mall (visit the gastropub, great food/beer). Also, while there are plenty of name brand stores at Town Square, some of them don't rotate their current seasons out properly. So, they'll be 50%-70% more expensive than the outlet mall right down the road. So, go to the outlet mall, too. Good deals there.
9. DO NOT FUCKING DRINK AND DIVE. PD does not give a fuck about you being a tourist. There's plenty of taxis, there's no fucking excuse. Also, that taxi cab driver, he gets a tip too.

Have fun, don't act like a tool, and keep your money close.
 
As a citizen of the city....

1. Don't gamble at expensive tables unless you're rich. It's not worth it. Head downtown if you're gonna blow you're money at random.
2. As expensive as shit is, it's not the food or liquor or gambling (if you're smart) that kills your wallet. It's tipping. If you're not an ass hole, bring around 50 in ones. Valets get $2-$5. Same with the person taking your bags to and from the room. Tip your bartender and your drinks won't suck. If you go to the strip club, tip them too.
3. On the point of liquor, if you're stay at a resort, just bring drinks in from the liquor store and get tipsy in your room. No sense in paying for the markup if you can avoid it.
4. Don't get mixed drinks. Straight liquor is going to do you better.
5. Spend some time Red Rock and Boulder City. Very chill places.
6. Casa di Amore is a great Italian joint. The guy that plays live music, George Bugatti, is a fantastic old school crooner. The Cracked Egg is good for breakfast.
7. Don't eat at the casinos if you can avoid it, hella expensive.
8. Be careful about your shopping. While there are plenty of name brand stores, some of them don't rotate their current seasons out properly. So, they'll be 50%-70% more expensive than the outlet mall right down the road. Also, go to the outlet mall. Good deals.
9. DO NOT FUCKING DRINK AND DIVE. PD does not give a fuck about you being a tourist. There's plenty of taxis, there's no fucking excuse. Also, that taxi cab driver, he gets a tip too.

Have fun, don't act like a tool, and keep your money close.
How much money would you say is a good amount to have a good time if you're going for 3-4 days over a weekend?

Not high-roller stuff or anything just a fresh out of college person looking to go to Vegas with some friends for the first time coming from Florida.
 

Higgy

Member
Rent a car. Everything looks like walking distance but IT'S NOT. Stop at Walgreens or CVS and get a cooler and stock up on beverages and snacks for your room.

Don't waste your time with Ka Or Zumanity Cirque's, Mystere is better and much cheaper. Jump off the Stratosphere or at least go on the ride thats spins in a circle off the ledge 108 stories up. Check out The World Famous Gold and Silver Pawn Shop (Pawn Stars.) Check out Freemont Street at night. Have the balls to go in a asian massage.

Go to 1/2 off discount tickets that are located on the strip. Circus Circus seems to be the least busy. Opens at 10:00 am. Go to Penn and Teller, Mystere, and wait for it...................Carrot Top. Yes. I said it. You'll be surprised how funny he is.
 
Good timing on this thread. I'm going in April. What are some things to do that are easy to get to from the strip? I'll be staying at the Wynn and don't want to pay outrageous cab fares.
Use the monorail. http://www.lvmonorail.com/

There is a station stop near the Wynn and is by far the easiest and cheapest way to go from one end of the strip to the other. The ticket is only $12 for unlimited trips in a 24 hour period or $28 for three days. The only downside is it stops running at 2am on the weekdays and 3am on the weekends.
 

Veezy

que?
Penn and Teller are actually the people playing the bass and piano at the opening of the show. It was cool to meet them after the show.

Which reminds me, don't be ashamed to get a ticket you can afford. If you go on an off night, you may get bumped up to a better seat. Me and the fiancée went from the balcony to center row, dead center, just for showing up early.
 

Menelaus

Banned
I played lots and lots and lots of War while I was at Bally's. Easily the highlight of my gambling.

Also, Teller will sign just about anything.

W8zZ9.jpg
 

Veezy

que?
How much money would you say is a good amount to have a good time if you're going for 3-4 days over a weekend?

Not high-roller stuff or anything just a fresh out of college person looking to go to Vegas with some friends for the first time coming from Florida.

Do you have any idea of what you all want to do? Not including ticket/hotel:

Just throwing a numbers out there, I'd say bring $50 in cash, at least, for tips and dollar slots (should you so desire to play them). I'd set aside 150 for food (one big nice meal or two and then go cheep for everything else). $200, minimum, for entertainment (gent's club, regular club, shows). And, if you plan on shopping, another $200.

Bare minimum, if you and your friends take the time to bring some food/drinks back to the room, minimize gambling to downtown, and avoid shopping at the casions, you can have a great time for around $400-$500 in a 3-4 day weekend with some money to spare. The big hitter to your wallet will be food, so check out menus in advance. Also, you need to plan out taxis/rental car. BUT BUT BUT... avoid the allure of the craps table. The applause will pull you in, but debits out of your account will leave you empty.
 
Do you have any idea of what you all want to do? Not including ticket/hotel:

Just throwing a numbers out there, I'd say bring $50 in cash, at least, for tips and dollar slots (should you so desire to play them). I'd set aside 150 for food (one big nice meal or two and then go cheep for everything else). $200, minimum, for entertainment (gent's club, regular club, shows). And, if you plan on shopping, another $200.

Bare minimum, if you and your friends take the time to bring some food/drinks back to the room, minimize gambling to downtown, and avoid shopping at the casions, you can have a great time for around $400-$500 in a 3-4 day weekend with some money to spare. The big hitter to your wallet will be food, so check out menus in advance. Also, you need to plan out taxis/rental car. BUT BUT BUT... avoid the allure of the craps table. The applause will pull you in, but debits out of your account will leave you empty.

That's actually pretty accurate to what we would probably end up doing - minus the significant shopping part. Probably add in some more gambling, though. I'm not a big gambler at all but I'd want to dabble in some blackjack, slots, maybe sports betting(like a game or random parlay at most) a little bit and maybe some other random stuff like roulette. I'm not really into poker or craps at all.

Definitely want to stay away from expensive gambling options for the most part. And yeah, we definitely want to go the liquor store route, etc. Thanks for the tips!
 
Here's the problem with cabs in Vegas, while they are plentiful be prepared to spend a lot of time in Taxi stands at the hotels. Fucking lines get ridiculous on the weekends, so, if you plan on going out to dinner and clubbing minimize the time you spend in those lines by eating and clubbing at the same casino or some place within walking distance.
 

Veezy

que?
$50 in singles is a good amount to keep around for tips. But $50 in a dollar slot will be gone in minutes.

Very true. Didn't know his gambling plans.

On that note, if you want to actually spend a good amount of time randomly betting, a few hundred at the Golden Nugget can last you a while. I mean, you'll lose most, if not all, of it. But you'll have fun. I'd highly recommend staying away from the slot machines. It's like grinding out smithing in Skyrim or fishing in World of Warcraft, except you lose all your money and you don't accomplish nothing. Much better to lose your funds around a table with people possibly hyping you up like Diago just lost his match at Evo.

Few more tips:

1. If you want great, cheap, Mexican food, hit up Roberto's Taco Shop. You get a soda, few burritos, some rice, and beans for under ten bucks. It's muy bueno! Seriously, it's good.
2. Go to Chinatown. Some quirky shops and good noodles. The whole gambit of Asian food is around that area, if you're looking for some good eats.
3. I'm not a huge fan of the gentlemen's club, however I've heard the one place to not visit Can Can Room, unless you enjoy the "try not to get stabbed" game. Also, I haven't heard anything really exciting about the Crazy Horses.
4. Do not set foot in the Orleans.
 

Kaako

Felium Defensor
Speaking of Vegas, my cousins want me to go to EDC(Electric Daisy Carnival) 2012 from June 8-10th I believe. I'm down for a decent electro/trance event but don't know much about this one. Has anyone been to this before or have heard about this? The youtube videos seemed alright but it would be great if I can get some first hand opinions.
 

Kosmo

Banned
Very true. Didn't know his gambling plans.

On that note, if you want to actually spend a good amount of time randomly betting, a few hundred at the Golden Nugget can last you a while. I mean, you'll lose most, if not all, of it. But you'll have fun. I'd highly recommend staying away from the slot machines. It's like grinding out smithing in Skyrim or fishing in World of Warcraft, except you lose all your money and you don't accomplish nothing. Much better to lose your funds around a table with people possibly hyping you up like Diago just lost his match at Evo.

Few more tips:

1. If you want great, cheap, Mexican food, hit up Roberto's Taco Shop. You get a soda, few burritos, some rice, and beans for under ten bucks. It's muy bueno! Seriously, it's good.
2. Go to Chinatown. Some quirky shops and good noodles. The whole gambit of Asian food is around that area, if you're looking for some good eats.
3. I'm not a huge fan of the gentlemen's club, however I've heard the one place to not visit Can Can Room, unless you enjoy the "try not to get stabbed" game. Also, I haven't heard anything really exciting about the Crazy Horses.
4. Do not set foot in the Orleans.

This. Head downtown to gamble during the day and then back to the strip at night if you're looking for nightlife. And for the love of god, learn to play craps. I didn't learn for YEARS and it is now by far my favorite game. You can play for hours and not lose too much if you aren't stupid with your bets.

Bet the pass line
Bet the 6 and 8
Take the random flier on the FIELD bet

WAY more fun than blackjack if you ask me.
 
Fat Tuesdays 100 Ouncer
O'Sheas and Orleans 5 dollar craps and blackjack

That's all you fucking need my friend. I'm leaving tomorrow until Friday. Middle of the week? 3 dollar craps. A cheapskates dream!
 

Sobriquet

Member
Speaking of Vegas, my cousins want me to go to EDC(Electric Daisy Carnival) 2012 from June 8-10th I believe. I'm down for a decent electro/trance event but don't know much about this one. Has anyone been to this before or have heard about this? The youtube videos seemed alright but it would be great if I can get some first hand opinions.

It's the biggest EDM festival outside of Europe.
 

Kwhit10

Member
This. Head downtown to gamble during the day and then back to the strip at night if you're looking for nightlife. And for the love of god, learn to play craps. I didn't learn for YEARS and it is now by far my favorite game. You can play for hours and not lose too much if you aren't stupid with your bets.

Bet the pass line
Bet the 6 and 8
Take the random flier on the FIELD bet

WAY more fun than blackjack if you ask me.

Yea you should definitely learn craps. If you stay away from all the bets on the middle of the table and stick to pass line/odds and betting straighy numbers your money will last a long time. Once I started playing craps a few years ago I pretty much stopped playing everything else. It is a lot of fun. I actually went to Vegas last weekend. Before I went I played craps at Mohegan Sun in CT and won $500 craps. Used that as my Vegas money, spent a lot here and there. Played craps again and was even then one night some guy went on a run and I won another $500 (started playing with $100 every time). The game can be really fun and your money can last a good while even if you eventually lose.
 
If you get the urge to gamble some, play the slots at the Aria and MGM Grand.
Made over (net) $700 slot jockeying for 4 days last summer.

Other than that, The Lion King (at Mandalay Bay) is a fantastic show.

I believe the show is no longer there..I think their last show was in December but was a fantastic show.
Also I do like off the strip hotels such as Red Rock, Orleans, Suncoast. One of my favorite places to eat is Memphis Championship BBQ. I heard good stuff about the Jersey Boys Show.
I also add a vote to visit the pinball musuem and maybe check out Insert Coin to drink and play games/hangout
 

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
As a citizen of the city....

1. Don't gamble at expensive tables unless you're rich. It's not worth it. Head downtown if you're gonna blow you're money at random.
2. As expensive as shit is, it's not the food or liquor or gambling (if you're smart) that kills your wallet. It's tipping. If you're not an ass hole, bring around 50 in ones. Valets get $2-$5. Same with the person taking your bags to and from the room. Tip your bartender and your drinks won't suck. If you go to the strip club, tip them too.
3. On the point of liquor, if you're stay at a resort, just bring drinks in from the liquor store and get tipsy in your room. No sense in paying for the markup if you can avoid it. On that note, stay away from convenience stores and the shops in the hotel/resort. Try to get to a Smith's (grocery store) get your bottled water, some snacks, and liquor/beer and bring it back. You'll save a lot of money that way. P.S. Everything that's already in your room that's not soap is probably not free, so avoid opening it.
4. Don't get mixed drinks. Straight liquor is going to do you better.
5. Spend some time Red Rock and Boulder City. Very chill places.
6. Casa di Amore is a great Italian joint. The guy that plays live music, George Bugatti, is a fantastic old school crooner. The Cracked Egg is good for breakfast.
7. Don't eat at the casinos if you can avoid it, hella expensive.
8. Be careful about your shopping. Do not shop in the casinos, go to the Town Square Mall (visit the gastropub, great food/beer). Also, while there are plenty of name brand stores at Town Square, some of them don't rotate their current seasons out properly. So, they'll be 50%-70% more expensive than the outlet mall right down the road. So, go to the outlet mall, too. Good deals there.
9. DO NOT FUCKING DRINK AND DIVE. PD does not give a fuck about you being a tourist. There's plenty of taxis, there's no fucking excuse. Also, that taxi cab driver, he gets a tip too.

Have fun, don't act like a tool, and keep your money close.

Great advice, thanks!

Go see Penn and Teller.

Awesome show and interesting people to talk to if you manage it after the show.

Oh man, I totally forgot about them. Would love to go see them.

So how do you play craps?

Dunno!
 
Here's the problem with cabs in Vegas, while they are plentiful be prepared to spend a lot of time in Taxi stands at the hotels. Fucking lines get ridiculous on the weekends, so, if you plan on going out to dinner and clubbing minimize the time you spend in those lines by eating and clubbing at the same casino or some place within walking distance.

This is where palming a $20 to one of the taxi stand guys is worth it imo. "I have somewhere I need to get to. Could you please help me out?" Has never failed. My mindset is $20 is worth saving 30 minutes or more of waiting outdoors, in line when I'm in Vegas.
 
So how do you play craps?

Quick and dirty explanation, you need to roll the point number that gets decided on the come out roll. The point is any number besides, 2,3,7,11,12. The come out is the roll right before the point is established. A roll of 7,11 on the come out is a winner. 2,3,12 are craps and it's a loser roll. Once the point is established the 7 is the loser and called craps.

Generally when you play craps you bet the pass line. This is saying you are betting the shooter will roll the point. Once the point is rolled everyone who bet the number or the pass line gets paid and a new point needs to be established. The shooter will continue to roll until they crap out in which case a new shooter is chosen. There are a lot of different bets that can be made, each have their own payouts and these bets are optional. Some bets have you betting on a number (field) or betting on doubles (hard way bets).

Mind you the above explanation is very very basic. If you go early in the morning most casinos actually have classes on how to play. Craps is crazy intimidating but fun as hell was you get into it. It's one of my favorite games in the casino. It's a game where you can make a ton of money really fast but can lose it just as fast as you got it. As long as you know when to walk away you won't lose your shirt.
 

dem

Member
Not really for the op.. but..

The packs of smokin hot women walking around the cosmo are ridonkulous. You can say that about most resorts at night.. but the cosmo takes it up a notch.


The Red Rock has the best sports book, imo. During the NFL season it's glorious.
 

Kosmo

Banned
Quick and dirty explanation, you need to roll the point number that gets decided on the come out roll. The point is any number besides, 2,3,7,11,12. The come out is the roll right before the point is established. A roll of 7,11 on the come out is a winner. 2,3,12 are craps and it's a loser roll. Once the point is established the 7 is the loser and called craps.

Generally when you play craps you bet the pass line. This is saying you are betting the shooter will roll the point. Once the point is rolled everyone who bet the number or the pass line gets paid and a new point needs to be established. The shooter will continue to roll until they crap out in which case a new shooter is chosen. There are a lot of different bets that can be made, each have their own payouts and these bets are optional. Some bets have you betting on a number (field) or betting on doubles (hard way bets).

Mind you the above explanation is very very basic. If you go early in the morning most casinos actually have classes on how to play. Craps is crazy intimidating but fun as hell was you get into it. It's one of my favorite games in the casino. It's a game where you can make a ton of money really fast but can lose it just as fast as you got it. As long as you know when to walk away you won't lose your shirt.

Simpleton betting for a $5 table:

Put $5 on the PASS line.
If a point is established, put $6 each on the 6 and 8 (if 6 or 8 are the point number, just bet the other)
Sit back and collect money.

Every time a 6 or 8 is rolled, you win $7 and you win $5 if the point is rolled. If 7 comes up, you lose.
 

Nori Chan

Member
I am also going this weekend with a couple of buddies of mine to celebrate his 21st


but i have no idea what im going to do since im 20...hotel warmer it is :(
 
Me and my friends all made fun of our other friend who went to see carrot top and cris angel by himself because no one wanted to pay to see that trash :p
 

kagete

Member
I am also going this weekend with a couple of buddies of mine to celebrate his 21st


but i have no idea what im going to do since im 20...hotel warmer it is :(

I'm a really small guy always confused for a minor and I was never carded in Vegas, even when ordering for an entire group. I rarely drink and I'm used to being carded even for buying nyquil so I was surprised that they never asked me. Maybe it will be the same for you, watch how you dress and play it cool.
 

Nori Chan

Member
I'm a really small guy always confused for a minor and I was never carded in Vegas, even when ordering for an entire group. I rarely drink and I'm used to being carded even for buying nyquil so I was surprised that they never asked me. Maybe it will be the same for you, watch how you dress and play it cool.

I don't drink, I'm just gonna hang with my friends and have a good time.
 

kagete

Member
Well you may not drink but certain venues won't let you in unless you're 21+. I remember Aria requires you to be at least 21 to reserve and check in.
 
I don't drink, I'm just gonna hang with my friends and have a good time.

Make sure to stay up late and get to the strip. You don't need to go inside clubs,just hang outside, especially planet Hollywood and such and watch the drunken women fall out one by one. You can makes bingo game out of it.
 

Spacebar

Member
I've stayed at the Aria and the Stratosphere. The Aria was really nice and the dealers were really cool. We met a dealer who told us this story about a guy who plays roulette. He would bring $35,000 to the high roller table and get 35 $1000 chips.

He would play twice leaving 1 number open. After each win he would gain a $1000. He would only play twice every Friday and then leave. The dealer told me he never lost and he had been doing it for over a year.

My friend and I took this strategy and used $3500 with $100 chips. Every so often we got a decent sized pot we would play the outside. We made up to $18,000.

At one point though the dealers and pit boss started to distract my friend. They had the bartender come up and ask "Hey man, do I know you?" and started asking him if he was in the military and shit. While my friend was distracted the dealer would roll the ball and my friend missed about 10 numbers on the board and took a hit. They kept trying to talk to him and keep him distracted and he took another hit.

I recognized this and got my friend and I to leave. I've also witnessed dealers trying to speed up the game on busy nights. People scrambling to put their chips on the board and the dealer rolls the ball immediately.

Just be careful when people start talking to you. Keep in mind they probably have a motive to screw you over.
 

H3xum

Member
Bills gambling hall, it's cheap, nice enough rooms and dead center on the strip.

Winner.

Only place you can get 5 dollar craps tables too if you play that.

Girls might not be the best to look at but its fun if you're looking for an all nighter without spending G's

Also, Paris' buffet across the street is pretty kickin'
 
I've stayed at the Aria and the Stratosphere. The Aria was really nice and the dealers were really cool. We met a dealer who told us this story about a guy who plays roulette. He would bring $35,000 to the high roller table and get 35 $1000 chips.

He would play twice leaving 1 number open. After each win he would gain a $1000. He would only play twice every Friday and then leave. The dealer told me he never lost and he had been doing it for over a year.

My friend and I took this strategy and used $3500 with $100 chips. Every so often we got a decent sized pot we would play the outside. We made up to $18,000.

At one point though the dealers and pit boss started to distract my friend. They had the bartender come up and ask "Hey man, do I know you?" and started asking him if he was in the military and shit. While my friend was distracted the dealer would roll the ball and my friend missed about 10 numbers on the board and took a hit. They kept trying to talk to him and keep him distracted and he took another hit.

I recognized this and got my friend and I to leave. I've also witnessed dealers trying to speed up the game on busy nights. People scrambling to put their chips on the board and the dealer rolls the ball immediately.

Just be careful when people start talking to you. Keep in mind they probably have a motive to screw you over.


I was playing the deal or no deal video game and this dirty looking guy came up and started watching me, I decided to be polite and talk to him as I was playing, I won and chose to go for double or nothing and lost, then the guy walked away and someone working for the casino came up and asked what he was saying and he was probably hoping to distract me and steal my ticket if I had won.........then she got security to go look for him

ALWAYS BE WARY OF PEOPLE AROUND YOU!


PS - I played again after that loss and won double or nothing and ended up leaving with a +50ish dollar profit
 
All this talk about Cosmo makes me want to book a trip to Vegas with my wife...

Looking up deals at the hotel...seems prices are great on the week of our anniversay, and they got specials like 'Book 3, stay 4' or $75-150 resort credit for saying 3-5 nights (which we can use can pay for one drink at Marquee...GOOD TIMES, YO =). I'm also reading that Marriott's 'look no further' deal might offer even better rates too...hmmm, tempting.

Other than Wicked Spoon, can anyone recommend any of the other sit-down/fine-dining restaurants in Cosmo? Seems like all the other 'fancier' spots there have lukewarm ratings on Yelp...we kinda like staying/dining/clubbing all in one hotel when we go to Vegas nowadays, more or less =P
 

Magilla

Banned
I absolutely love Comme Ca at Cosmo. We also enjoyed their (not so)secret pizza place and Scarpetta was good as well. Many of their restaurants have cheaper prefix menus during lunch or early dinner.

I got food poisoning at Jaleo. My wife didn't, but she didn't care much for the food. I've heard others rave about it though. /shrug
 

Sofiya

Neo Member
Other than Wicked Spoon, can anyone recommend any of the other sit-down/fine-dining restaurants in Cosmo? Seems like all the other 'fancier' spots there have lukewarm ratings on Yelp...we kinda like staying/dining/clubbing all in one hotel when we go to Vegas nowadays, more or less =P

I love Comme Ca. Their lunch specials and cocktails are excellent. Try the CCBLT. We usually come in here late afternoon, sit at the bar and enjoy the happy hour from 5-7pm.

Scarpetta will be the only time in your life you will not regret spending $24 on a little serving of spaghetti. There is also a view of the Bellagio fountains from the main seating area and if your timing is right you can be seated by the windows.

Jaleo gave my husband horrible food poisoning and ruined the last night of our trip a year or so ago. The tapas also wasn't that great compared to what we can get locally.


Also, not high end but great food:
China poblano (Mexican-Asian fusion): I love getting a couple of tacos to go for a snack. Delicious.
Holstein's (Burger joint): Great food and lots of eye candy. Rowdy atmosphere.
Hidden pizza place: Awesome NYC style pizza for only $4 a slice.
The Henry: Average diner type food.
Wicked Spoon Buffet: I am not a buffet person but most people rave about it.
 

Sofiya

Neo Member
I absolutely love Comme Ca at Cosmo. We also enjoyed their (not so)secret pizza place and Scarpetta was good as well. Many of their restaurants have cheaper prefix menus during lunch or early dinner.

I got food poisoning at Jaleo. My wife didn't, but she didn't care much for the food. I've heard others rave about it though. /shrug

Get out of my head.
 
Comme Ca, Scarpetta, secret pizza...cool, thanks Sofiya and Magilla! Have you two tried out STK or Blue Ribbon while there as well, or heard anything about it?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom