Jesus, what did MS put in that Kool Aid? You refuse to think for yourself, as if you are brainwashed. How about sending your friend a message and telling them to jump on "insert game here" so you can play together? There are more ways to communicate than just XBL. Not sure why this is so confusing,
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PlayStation 4 hits 35.9 million sold through to end users
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Jesus, what did MS put in that Kool Aid? You refuse to think for yourself, as if you are brainwashed. How about sending your friend a message and telling them to jump on "insert game here" so you can play together? There are more ways to communicate than just XBL. Not sure why this is so confusing,
Unification means a lot to MS, and to the average gamer crowd, I think they'd prefer the system working as they're used to rather than messing around in a game where the platforms are entirely different.
No game on XBL has ever had a different social platform. The original Xbox performed social aspects through games, but it was unified within XBL.
Personal insults when I'm trying to convey an idea for their reasoning? Mature of you.
I'd check my post above and where I said, 'I actually agree'.
This would be completely your own fault....so MS is doing all of us a favor not to have to go through this terrible, terrible situation.
Not sure why you are trying to play devil's advocate on behalf of MS.
It's not a personal insult at all. It's an observation that you seem to not be open to what anyone is saying. But I remember past threads trying to reason with you, and it was a failed task, so I won't try to reinvent the wheel here. Good luck.
Acquiescence
Member
Rice - the food of peasants.
gundamkyoukai
Member
If MS care about unification so much PC users should have been able to play with Live users years ago .
I guess they going to care much more now that there consoles get beat 2 to 1 .
Crimson_Gold
Member
Rice for the peasants, the ballers are eating lentils
or quinoa
Some call it a focus on unification. Others call it draconian policy that was developed when the industry operated quite differently. It is arcahic in every sense of the word
slavesnyder
Member
All this hate against Phil, I don't get it. He seems like a rice guy.
Huh, my own fault for what? For you and me alike, I don't mind going through different systems to have the ability of cross-play. Although, I can imagine MS don't want to segregate users and platforms, it's never happened in the life of Xbox, like I mentioned above. For kids and people who don't know that much, all that's going to happen is that get disgruntled and confused with the system while not even knowing they're playing multi-platform.
Other than FPS's, I definitely agree with you. Any other genre should be available cross-platform. Why they tried it with shadowrun to begin with is beyond me.
Although, I've just remembered, developers can now do this. Fable Legends as an example! Noticed that cross-platform has been made a thing with PC since the unification of W10 and the Xbox app?
WrenchNinja
Member
I'm 900% sure that's he's not playing devil's advocate here and actually believes this stuff
serversurfer
Member
If MS were talented enough, it seems like it would be pretty trivial for them to allow Square to access your Live Friends List, to both cross-reference with their own player base and allow you to "invite" friends who don't even own it yet. That information can already be exposed on a web page, like on PSN, right? I actually have a lot of games that link my PSNID directly to some sort of publisher account.
Seems odd that the superior system would be so useless by comparison
Because opening an API to 3rd party services where you've got the information of potentially hundreds of people seems like a great idea.
Ha, pretty much. It's just more from a user-friendly point of view, keeping things simple and in one place. I can understand why. Although, developers can cross-play with PC now at developers discretion.
Didn't FFXI have a separate system?
Crimson_Gold
Member
That was before the reign of Pharaoh Phil. That statement only applies to his doings.
heel, I mean leeh said it never happened, so we're both wrong I guess.
Ask a proper Christian if the dinosaurs ever happened and it's getting close to what's going on here :-3
serversurfer
Member
And MS don't understand basic data access? They have no way to expose your friend list without also giving access to your credit card information? Man, it seems MS are far less competent than even I imagined.
Uh? I'm not talking about CC information. The most basic piece of information which would be given is your email address, as an identifier.
I already tried the FFXI argument and he turned it to hyperbole, so I gave up.
But yes, FFXI worked in XBL's ecosystem. Perhaps there were limitations, not sure but it worked.
It's not that every game has to be cross platform, but having a black and white rule that NO game can be cross platform because reasons is just plain stupid, and to me it demonstrates why gamers are choosing to play on other platforms this gen. They are sick of the restrictive bullshit that MS tells them is there for their benefit.
Cross platform between PC and Xbox is now up to the developers.
With the restriction that it must be a Windows 10 PC I assume?
Based on the reasoning I mentioned above, think to as why it is that.
Only if they make it either Windows 10 exclusive or they split off the Steam/Win 10 communities.
slavesnyder
Member
Are there any others worth noticing?
Enigmatic Rainbow
Member
This is actually common though.
Of course it is, to companies like Facebook where you are the product.
N30RYU
Member
Touché
slavesnyder
Member
pretty
Prototype Viktor
Member
Ikr devs can explain how to play a game but doing more than one step to connect to people is outside the scope of reality and human ability until we get quantum AI computers
TheAngryMonkey
Member
No, I'd much rather keep what each system has right now. The integration is important to me and I think it is to a lot of people. It'd be a clusterfuck of awful user experiences if each game had their own friends and communication systems.
Crimson_Gold
Member
Mmo already have these things. We aren't saying do it with every game
No one is saying this, at all. We are talking MMO integration, which usually has their own systems in the first place.
I'm only 90% sure, but I'll backtrack and say I was 30-40% sure once more information comes out.
Enigmatic Rainbow
Member
True, but that wasn't what I assumed the point of your post was. Many other companies utilize the same API's.
I already knew this was the person from that one Digital sales thread.
Lawd.....
Hahaha
APIs are almost universal to all software products, whether you pay for them or not. The magical thing is, they have ways of making sure that only the people that are authenticated and authorized to view, call, and use those APIs are allowed to do so.
It's an amazing concept called security.
And, guess what, people are using those XBL friends list APIs right now! gasp
Oh I know, header checksums, auth tokens or even using keys and encrypt if your data is that sensitive.
I've just read through a project for the api on github and you can't get your email through the api. It's only your tag, online presence and status.
You can't get an email, so you can't create any universal unique identifier which can create any find friends or any other similar application. You'd only be able link your tag, and find your friends on Xbox not on other platforms.
It's also a public API, because of that.
That's ok because 90% of his beliefs are digital.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
The thread that keeps on giving.
Crayon
Member
serversurfer
Member
Okay, I'm gonna break it down for you. <3
The only thing MS need "expose" to Square or any other third party is a list of UUIDs and a few operations that can be performed on them. There's nothing sensitive about your UUID; it's your identification. More to the point, Square already have access to all of this by virtue of being an XBox developer.
When you want to send an invite to a Live user, the game packages up the Invitation, hands it to MS, and says, "Here, do something with this." At that point, the game's involvement pretty much ends, unless and until it receives an "Invitation Accepted" message from Live. Works the same on PSN; package the invitation and dispatch it. The formatting may be a little different for each platform, but the basic process is the same.
Friend management works similarly. When you make a friend in the game, Square simply tell MS/Sony what happened, and they handle the rest. All of this stuff is just how it works already, every day.
In a game like FFXIV, things really aren't much different from Microsoft's or Sony's perspective. Square have extra work to do though, because now they're bridging disparate ecosystems. So they create their own network which provides an additional layer of functionality on top of any and all functionality provided by the underlying platform.
When you make a new friend in FFXI, Square keep track of that themselves. If you're not on the same platform, there's nothing else to do. If you happen to both connect from the same platform, they can notify the appropriate platform holder of the event, who can then respond appropriately. Invites are sent in-game and cc'd to the appropriate platform. If MS trusted XBox developers to create messages to be sent to Live users, you could easily have cross-platform messaging as well, because Square just needs to dispatch a message to your Live inbox saying, "Lolulu wants to know if you want to go fishing." When you reply, it could pass through Square's servers and magically appear in my PSN inbox.
So which do you think is the most likely explanation for why only Live isn't getting in on this action:
- The best minds at MS simply can't grok this stuff even with assistance from others leaving them completely unable to participate.
- Live servers are powered by pixie dust and cannot be accessed with mortal technology.
- MS don't play well with others.
If MS weren't so intent on ensuring users like leeh remain blissfully ignorant, you might find things aren't nearly as bad as you fear. Apart from the bit where you sign up for the publisher account, this stuff is pretty user-transparent.
Omnistalgic
Member
informative! so much informative! lol...seriously though, well said, you have a law background?
Nah, just bookmark this for future reference, a thread like that will get ugly.
Seems, is the key word here. He's been disingenuous on several occasions, and he was part of the initial Xbox plan just like a bunch of the people that got fired, I also, don't like his smug face -_- but lol, that's just me. Point is, we don't know these people truly.
Mark Cerny, seems like a psycho genius, wouldn't trust my kids with em' tho!
Also, does anyone have a link to where that SE guy basically said the PS3 version of FF13 could have included different languages and I think higher res cut-scenes but they wanted parity for all players across systems? wonder if MS parity clause was at work there as well?
serversurfer
Member
lol No, I just spend a lot of time filling my holes.
lol He was certainly looking a bit frazzled and disheveled at the reveal, but he usually appears reasonably healthy.
We'll probably never really know how much damage the parity clause has caused throughout the years. Take a look at GTA.
When GTA4 came out, there was some mild criticism that it wasn't much of a generational leap over what was done on the PS2. Someone from Rockstar (Hauser?) pointed out that while processing power had increased substantially, the requirement that the game still run from a single DVD with no ability to mandate a hardware install limited what they were able to do with the game, because the storage system wasn't appreciably better than what they had on PS2.
Now, there were rumors going around last generation that MS strongly discouraged developers from releasing multi-disc games, and flatly prohibited developers from requiring an install to the hard drive. Why would they care? Because that would expose the clear superiority of the PS3, which had much higher capacity optical discs, and a guarantee that every user had a hard drive available for developers to leverage.
Now, was the development of GTA4 held back by the technical limitations of the 360 and/or the policies of MS, or was the content limited to "one DVD worth" because it was ridiculous to expect even Rockstar to actually ever produce more content than that for a single game? A few years ago, you might've been laughed at for even suggesting the former. In fact, I was roundly mocked at Ars for doing just that, and was assured the latter was the only explanation required, despite any PR puffery from Hauser.
Fast forward a bit though, and GTA5 was a multi-disc release requiring an install, and the marketing rights had shifted from MS to Sony, and the parity clause is a little more well known. So maybe it's not so crazy to think that parity held GTA back until Sony's user base had finally grown large enough for Rockstar to say, "No, fuck you!"
Of course, thanks to the NDA and the fact that most people are afraid to piss off MS because they do need to do business with them, we'll likely never get the full story. Most of this stuff you gotta piece together from off-hand comments that could could mean a lot of things until you read them in the context of the leaked developer agreements.
Scary thing is though, that also means that what we do hear is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg.
{insert code here}
Member
lol No, I just spend a lot of time filling my holes.
lol He was certainly looking a bit frazzled and disheveled at the reveal, but he usually appears reasonably healthy.
We'll probably never really know how much damage the parity clause has caused throughout the years. Take a look at GTA.
When GTA4 came out, there was some mild criticism that it wasn't much of a generational leap over what was done on the PS2. Someone from Rockstar (Hauser?) pointed out that while processing power had increased substantially, the requirement that the game still run from a single DVD with no ability to mandate a hardware install limited what they were able to do with the game, because the storage system wasn't appreciably better than what they had on PS2.
Now, there were rumors going around last generation that MS strongly discouraged developers from releasing multi-disc games, and flatly prohibited developers from requiring an install to the hard drive. Why would they care? Because that would expose the clear superiority of the PS3, which had much higher capacity optical discs, and a guarantee that every user had a hard drive available for developers to leverage.
Now, was the development of GTA4 held back by the technical limitations of the 360 and/or the policies of MS, or was the content limited to "one DVD worth" because it was ridiculous to expect even Rockstar to actually ever produce more content than that for a single game? A few years ago, you might've been laughed at for even suggesting the former. In fact, I was roundly mocked at Ars for doing just that, and was assured the latter was the only explanation required, despite any PR puffery from Hauser.
Fast forward a bit though, and GTA5 was a multi-disc release requiring an install, and the marketing rights had shifted from MS to Sony, and the parity clause is a little more well known. So maybe it's not so crazy to think that parity held GTA back until Sony's user base had finally grown large enough for Rockstar to say, "No, fuck you!"
Of course, thanks to the NDA and the fact that most people are afraid to piss off MS because they do need to do business with them, we'll likely never get the full story. Most of this stuff you gotta piece together from off-hand comments that could could mean a lot of things until you read them in the context of the leaked developer agreements.
Scary thing is though, that also means that what we do hear is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg.
Holy shit! Now that I look back on it, GTA V was a gigantic leap up from IV. Bordering on generational and I'm talking about PS3 here not PS4. I never played nor saw GTA V on the 360 though so I didn't know about the install and the multiple discs but this makes a lot of sense. It really makes you wonder how much better some of those early gen games could have been if MS didn't have such archaic policies in place. Thank goodness they tanked it with the bone and aren't calling the shots this time around.
Who knows, maybe 10 years from now when MS has given up on consoles and moved back to the PC space we'll finally get the full story on how they acted behind closed doors during the 360 era.
Mikey Jr.
Member
Dawn, this video should get its own thread. There is such a fuck ton of great shit.