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[serversurfer]

I did read it man : what am I missing here?

I very clearly explained what we were testing, how we were testing it, and why we were testing it. The PS4 version of Black Flag serves as an elaborate test suite to test the effect of a single variable, resolution. It doesn't matter if the test came from two years ago or from two years in the future, because that has absolutely nothing to do with this test. It also doesn't matter if the Bone even exists, because it's equally irrelevant here. You managed to avoid responding to anything that I said to you, and instead just came back with, "But that's a launch game; Bone's way better now."

Twice. ><

They already have the access to allow people on XBL, to talk to people on XBL. Not anything else. They can't get customer details, it's just interactions driven through their ID, which is their GT. Security is paramount here, or you'd get developers trying to harvest information about yourself for marketing purposes.


Yes, they already have the access for people from XBL to talk to people on XBL, and they have the ability for people on PSN to talk to PSN. They're not compatible with each other, at all. You write that like they simply can lower some security features and then suddenly everything is compatible. The fact is, you'd have to dedicate a lot of engineering resource, to essentially re-write API's. Even then, like I said in my previous post, there's a lot of constraints.


Don't be so naive here, honestly. Once a company has your email, and it's linked to your gaming identity, your gaming habits and preferences can all be mapped to create more of a picture about you which can be sold on. This sort of information is big bucks. Especially when that same email is linked with other 3rd parties like Facebook.


Let me just quote myself here, because you obviously didn't read it:

XBL isn't segregated, I can talk to whom ever I see fit through the in-built system which works across every title. Cross-platform would break that, that's why MS won't allow it.

Why do you think the 360 and the X1 can't talk to each other? The libraries for them both are completely different and aren't compatible with each other. Hell, I can't even see what game someone is playing on the 360, only their online status and presence, which is pulled through the public API which was discussed before.


Waffle, absolute waffle.

The only way you'd get a seamless integration between all platforms is if every platform holder got together and created an open standard for gaming social capabilities. You can't just mash together online platforms. Doesn't work like that I'm afraid.

Through the game, and the game only. That's my point.

MS have the whole 'unification' across devices drive which is going on at the minute, I can imagine the last thing they want is to start breaking that.

Dude, your arguments aren't even internally consistent. Just a minute ago you were arguing that networking on the Bone was so magically good that even 360 can't get in on the action, and in the very next breath you claim multi-device support as one of the strengths of the platform. ><

I have no idea where you got the idea that this technology requires an exchange of email addresses, but you're completely wrong about that. I have no idea where you got the idea that this technology requires elevated privileges for a developer, but you're completely wrong about that. I have no idea where you got the idea that not being able to interact with anyone but Live users doesn't constitute segregation, but you're completely wrong about that. I have no idea where you got the idea that this isn't already happening all around you and without issue, but you're completely wrong about that.

Sorry to be so blunt, but I'm not sure how to be any more clear. You're completely off base here. thatsnothowitworks.gif

 

[Kinan]

I don't expect PS4 to fall behind the PS2 until the PS5 is out, PS4 too will sell roughly 100M after 6 years. Where the PS2 will pull ahead though is post PS5 launch, don't see PS4 doing another 55M.

Only way this can happen if PS VR will suddenly become crazy successful, which I think even Sony itself doesn't really hope too. For this it needs to expand the market beyond hardcore, and currently it seems it will sell mostly to core gamers with PS4 already bought year ago.

But who knows, we've seen even crazier things happen, the world is full of surprises.

 

[leeh]

Dude, your arguments aren't even internally consistent. Just a minute ago you were arguing that networking on the Bone was so magically good that even 360 can't get in on the action, and in the very next breath you claim multi-device support as one of the strengths of the platform. ><

I have no idea where you got the idea that this technology requires an exchange of email addresses, but you're completely wrong about that. I have no idea where you got the idea that this technology requires elevated privileges for a developer, but you're completely wrong about that. I have no idea where you got the idea that not being able to interact with anyone but Live users doesn't constitute segregation, but you're completely wrong about that. I have no idea where you got the idea that this isn't already happening all around you and without issue, but you're completely wrong about that.

Sorry to be so blunt, but I'm not sure how to be any more clear. You're completely off base here. thatsnothowitworks.gif

Just saying your wrong with no reasoning adds nothing to a discussion.

 

[onQ123]

Only way this can happen if PS VR will suddenly become crazy successful, which I think even Sony itself doesn't really hope too. For this it needs to expand the market beyond hardcore, and currently it seems it will sell mostly to core gamers with PS4 already bought year ago.

But who knows, we've seen even crazier things happen, the world is full of surprises.

It's on track to sell 100 million in 6 years,

at the end of this year it should be at about 53 or more & I'm sure it will sell over 16 million in 2017 , 2018 & 2019.

 

[Ryng_tolu]

It's on track to sell 100 million in 6 years,

at the end of this year it should be at about 53 or more & I'm sure it will sell over 16 million in 2017 , 2018 & 2019.

Not gonna happen. Maybe 2018, but 2019 is most likely the PS5 year. Imo, PS4 will be lucky to sell 10 million this that year...

 

[Yasir]

Not gonna happen. Maybe 2018, but 2019 is most likely the PS5 year. Imo, PS4 will be lucky to sell 10 million this year...

Huh?! You dont think it'll sell 10million this year?

 

[Acquiescence]

Not gonna happen. Maybe 2018, but 2019 is most likely the PS5 year. Imo, PS4 will be lucky to sell 10 million this year...

Have you seen the line-up the PS4 has this year? No way it struggles to sell ten million.

 

[anothertech]

Just saying your wrong with no reasoning adds nothing to a discussion.

You do realize the irony in that statement?

That said, it seems pretty closed minded to think MS couldn't figure out the issue In the first place. It's much more likely they just don't want to for their own reasons. Not that they can't figure it out. Which is why the sentiment that MS doesn't play well with others.

 

[Ryng_tolu]

Huh?! You dont think it'll sell 10million this year?

Have you seen the line-up the PS4 has this year? No way it struggles to sell ten million.

10 million in 2019 lol.

 

[Elandyll]

Huh?! You dont think it'll sell 10million this year?

I think Ring means in 2019, not 2016.

I disagree with him on two fronts though.
I think the PS4 did not peak in 2015 and that it will have even better years in 2016, 2017 and 2018 and that 16m is now a baseline. My second point of contention is the big plunge on the year of the PS5 (likely 2019, but possibly 2020). I think that by then the price will be low enough ($199?) and the game library strong enough that it'll still sell at least 14m+ that year.
So in actuality, I would agree that in my opinion the PS4 will remain ahead of the PS2 curve until at least 2019 (possibly well ahead if PSVR takes off decently), and that counting that year it'll probably be at 100m+ then.

 

[Javin98]

10 million in 2019 lol.

LOL, not to be a grammar Nazi, but this is the type of problem it causes if your grammar makes your sentences difficult to understand.

Anyway, I think the PS4 will sell at least 18.5 million in 2016, even 20 million is possible. I personally predict that 2016 will be the peak year for the PS4. However, I think 2017 will still see better sales than in 2015. 2018 is the year sales start declining significantly IMO.

 

[Ryng_tolu]

LOL, not to be a grammar Nazi, but this is the type of problem it causes if your grammar makes your sentences difficult to understand.

Anyway, I think the PS4 will sell at least 18.5 million in 2016, even 20 million is possible. I personally predict that 2016 will be the peak year for the PS4. However, I think 2017 will still see better sales than in 2015. 2018 is the year sales start declining significantly IMO.

I know what mean this haha, my english is bad but not THAT bad.
I was talking about 2019, so "this year" was 2019.

BTW, i believe PS4 will sell 18m this year, and after that i see about ~2m decline for the nexts year. Like 16m in 2017 and 14m in 2018.
Of course that's just me. 20m this year could happen who know ( yes, this time "THIS" is 2016. )

I think Ring means in 2019, not 2016.

I disagree with him on two fronts though.
I think the PS4 did not peak in 2015 and that it will have even better years in 2016, 2017 and 2018 and that 16m is now a baseline. My second point of contention is the big plunge on the year of the PS5 (likely 2019, but possibly 2020). I think that by then the price will be low enough ($199?) and the game library strong enough that it'll still sell at least 14m+ that year.
So in actuality, I would agree that in my opinion the PS4 will remain ahead of the PS4 curve until at least 2019 (possibly well ahead if PSVR takes off decently), and that counting that year it'll probably be at 100m+ then.

Oh, but i agree that 2016 will be a better year than 2015.
Just, not by much, because this year PS4 sales were very strong this holidays. I expect better sales overall, but a bit lower holidays ( still strong numbers).

And i also agree about 100m LT.
What i see is: 18m in 2016, 16m in 2017, 14m in 2018, 9m in 2019. And others 7/8 million in 2020-2022.

 

[Javin98]

I know what mean this haha, my english is bad but not THAT bad.
I was talking about 2019, so "this year" was 2019.

BTW, i believe PS4 will sell 18m this year, and after that i see about ~2m decline for the nexts year. Like 16m in 2017 and 14m in 2018.
Of course that's just me. 20m this year could happen who know ( yes, this time "THIS" is 2016. )

Keep in mind that the PS4 sold almost 17.5 million in 2015 alone, though. I'm sure most of us are expecting it to be up significantly in 2016. 18 million would be a relatively small boost.

 

[The Artisan]

I don't get your point. If they can do it for one game, why not for others? What's stopping them from letting crossplay happen for Rocket League?

Xbox is stopping Xbox from letting crossplay happen.

 

[Bluenoser]

Just saying your wrong with no reasoning adds nothing to a discussion.

You're missing the point. Your post is ironic because....

And this whole cross platform discussion was brought up because of one game, FFXIV, and how it's not on XB1 because of one reason. MS's cross play policy. No one here is talking about having cross play across the whole spectrum of games. Although it could be done, and very well may be in the future, as of now, there's no reason to do it. But for MMO's that rely on their user base for their business model, it's essential to have thriving communities of players, and they require all platforms to play together to ensure this happens. MS doesn't want to play in the same sandbox as PS/PC, so they lose out. Nay... YOU lose out... because of a stubborn, and outdated policy.

Then reliable Phil tries to blame it on the evil Sony Empire for locking down the game in a third party deal, which we all know was a bold faced lie.

Everything else that has to do with this conversation was introduced by you after the fact, and is irrelevant to the original point, which is that ONE GAME is not on XB1 because of MS's policy.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

Not gonna happen. Maybe 2018, but 2019 is most likely the PS5 year. Imo, PS4 will be lucky to sell 10 million this year...

I think you might want to double this. You'd be much closer.

 

[The Artisan]

Not gonna happen. Maybe 2018, but 2019 is most likely the PS5 year. Imo, PS4 will be lucky to sell 10 million this year...

are you talking domestic or worldwide? there's no way it is going to be only 10 million

 

[Ricky_R]

Dudes, RED_RING was talking about 2019 in that last sentence.

 

[Omnistalgic]

are you talking domestic or worldwide? there's no way it is going to be only 10 million

He's talking about 2019, and is predicting it will start to decline in that year. Ps5 launches or close to it...

Not that far fetched...still able to hit 100 million with that prediction. I personally think 2017 with a new GTA game and DQ11 in Japan will be Ps4 biggest year.

GTS should be big as well but I'm not sure what Sony is doing with it. Is it a transitional game into GT7? A prologue of sorts? Or will it become GT7 and keep getting updated.

 

[The Artisan]

He's talking about 2019, and is predicting it will start to decline in that year. Ps5 launches or close to it...

Not that far fetched...still able to hit 100 million with that prediction. I personally think 2017 with a new GTA game and DQ11 in Japan will be Ps4 biggest year.

GTS should be big as well but I'm not sure what Sony is doing with it. Is it a transitional game into GT7? A prologue of sorts? Or will it become GT7 and keep getting updated.

oh, okay. still to say "this year" confused a lot of people.

in any case, as unlikely as it is, I hope this gen lasts at least as long as last gen. the longer the better; more quality games and greater investment in the consoles.

 

[Omnistalgic]

oh, okay. still to say "this year" confused a lot of people.

in any case, as unlikely as it is, I hope this gen lasts at least as long as last gen. the longer the better; more quality games and greater investment in the consoles.

Yeah I'm good with a 6 year gen and 2020 for the new consoles. Then again as long as Ps5 is b/c going forward it doesn't matter to me much. This is a gen I feel like I'm going to just play a lot of games, I'm not so eager to jump into new tech and want the latest and greatest. Really want to see the innovation in software this time around. I'm with you on the longer gen, we don't need to rush this one out, so I hope MS doesn't try to disrupt anything because they are getting whooped worldwide. Maybe they will just make a Windows branded PC and call it Xbox, I thought that's what they should have done this gen tbh, it's where there strengths are.

 

[viHuGi]

Not gonna happen. Maybe 2018, but 2019 is most likely the PS5 year. Imo, PS4 will be lucky to sell 10 million this year...

LOL expecting Ps4 to drop below Ps3 sales.

Only here hahaha

 

[The Artisan]

Yeah I'm good with a 6 year gen and 2020 for the new consoles. Then again as long as Ps5 is b/c going forward it doesn't matter to me much. This is a gen I feel like I'm going to just play a lot of games, I'm not so eager to jump into new tech and want the latest and greatest. Really want to see the innovation in software this time around. I'm with you on the longer gen, we don't need to rush this one out, so I hope MS doesn't try to disrupt anything because they are getting whooped worldwide. Maybe they will just make a Windows branded PC and call it Xbox, I thought that's what they should have done this gen tbh, it's where there strengths are.

add a year or two with that and I agree with you. in fact, I hope console video game generations last longer from here on out, tbh.

and yeah, I really hope mS don't rush our another console. honestly imo looking at the xbone's performance on its own it seems like it is doing well. it's just that because it is competing with the Ps4, it just makes its sales look bad (but they're really not; Ps4's is just extraordinary).

LOL expecting Ps4 to drop below Ps3 sales.

Only here hahaha

apparently he's talking about 2019.

 

[Elandyll]

Oh, but i agree that 2016 will be a better year than 2015.
Just, not by much, because this year PS4 sales were very strong this holidays. I expect better sales overall, but a bit lower holidays ( still strong numbers).

And i also agree about 100m LT.
What i see is: 18m in 2016, 16m in 2017, 14m in 2018, 9m in 2019. And others 7/8 million in 2020-2022.

But with the library finally hitting its stride, PSVR launching, the huge AAA that are more PS aligned incoming (such as FF XV) and price drops still upcoming (possibly all the way down to $199 by 2019), I just can't imagine why the sudden plunge in 2017, and even much worse in 2018 and ridiculous levels in 2019 when the PS4 could have by then some of the biggest titles it will ever have, whether exclusive or simply friendlier to the PS audience (FF7R, TLOU2, GTA6, KH3...), not counting possible "out of left field phenoms" (PSVR, NMS, WiLD, Horizon, TLG, Dreams, Detroit, GT Sports... which could all surprise and be smash hit successes, or fizzle out of course).
Just seems like a rather pessimistic view of the next few years imo.

#shrug

 

[leeh]

You're missing the point. Your post is ironic because....

And this whole cross platform discussion was brought up because of one game, FFXIV, and how it's not on XB1 because of one reason. MS's cross play policy. No one here is talking about having cross play across the whole spectrum of games. Although it could be done, and very well may be in the future, as of now, there's no reason to do it. But for MMO's that rely on their user base for their business model, it's essential to have thriving communities of players, and they require all platforms to play together to ensure this happens. MS doesn't want to play in the same sandbox as PS/PC, so they lose out. Nay... YOU lose out... because of a stubborn, and outdated policy.

Then reliable Phil tries to blame it on the evil Sony Empire for locking down the game in a third party deal, which we all know was a bold faced lie.

Everything else that has to do with this conversation was introduced by you after the fact, and is irrelevant to the original point, which is that ONE GAME is not on XB1 because of MS's policy.

I never said it can't be done, I never said I don't like it myself. I'm just trying to give my own opinion to why, which aligns with what we've seen on W10.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Just saying your wrong with no reasoning adds nothing to a discussion.

You should take your own advice. Reading your replies to serversurfer, you were merely saying the opposite of his position without elaborating on why you hold your counterpositions.

 

[The Artisan]

I very clearly explained what we were testing, how we were testing it, and why we were testing it. The PS4 version of Black Flag serves as an elaborate test suite to test the effect of a single variable, resolution. It doesn't matter if the test came from two years ago or from two years in the future, because that has absolutely nothing to do with this test. It also doesn't matter if the Bone even exists, because it's equally irrelevant here. You managed to avoid responding to anything that I said to you, and instead just came back with, "But that's a launch game; Bone's way better now."

Twice. ><

server, I'm not saying you're wrong or that I inherently disagree with you. Trust me, I read what you wrote, the rest of what you said. It's just that, what I'm trying to say is (and yes I know that being launch titles don't matter BUT) don't you think launch titles can give a bigger difference in performance based on the fact that it's the dev's first attempts on the new hardware?

 

[Abdiel]

server, I'm not saying you're wrong or that I inherently disagree with you. Trust me, I read what you wrote, the rest of what you said. It's just that, what I'm trying to say is (and yes I know that being launch titles don't matter BUT) don't you think launch titles can give a bigger difference in performance based on the fact that it's the dev's first attempts on the new hardware?

What server is saying is that the differences between launch or new have nothing to do with the perceptible differences between 900 and 1080 with regards to how different the plability of the same exact scenarios and circumstances were within a short period of time.

It has nothing to do with dev quality. At least, that's what I got, and you seemed to be misreading.

 

[Bluenoser]

I never said it can't be done, I never said I don't like it myself. I'm just trying to give my own opinion to why, which aligns with what we've seen on W10.

And I simply counter your point by saying they did it on FFXI, so there's no reason they can't do it again. Reasons are reasons. None of them justify depriving your customers of games they would enjoy, and play.

 

[serversurfer]

Just saying your wrong with no reasoning adds nothing to a discussion.

I explained how UUIDs work, and you continued yammering about email addresses, so I got the impression you didn't care why you're wrong, or even that you are.

What server is saying is that the differences between launch or new have nothing to do with the perceptible differences between 900 and 1080 with regards to how different the plability of the same exact scenarios and circumstances were within a short period of time.

It has nothing to do with dev quality. At least, that's what I got, and you seemed to be misreading.

*99% correct! *gives cookie*

*

Spoiler

I don't serve the surfers.

I know what mean this haha, my english is bad but not THAT bad.
I was talking about 2019, so "this year" was 2019.

When an English speaker &#8212; American ones, at least &#8212; says, "This one," they almost invariably mean, "The current one." "That," is used to refer to, "That other one;" in other words, the non-current one you referred to most recently. They're almost opposites in this sense; they're basically used to contrast two things. "Not this one; that one!" English speakers know exactly which one you're referring to (even if you don't ).

That said, your usage wasn't technically incorrect, just very confusing for a native speaker. <3

 

[Coded Heroin]

I really underestimated the demand for console hardware this gen. Glad to be proven wrong though!

 

[Ryng_tolu]

Ok ok, "this year" was a mistake. xD

 

[onQ123]

Not gonna happen. Maybe 2018, but 2019 is most likely the PS5 year. Imo, PS4 will be lucky to sell 10 million this that year...

AMD chips are making the move to 14/16 nm this year so a PS4 slim will come this year or next year & if it's next year PS4 will be over 50 million before the slim hit. the slim will come with a price drop. you really think PS4 is going to sell more consoles above $299 than below it?

also if the chips are just moving to 14/16 nm this year chances are it will be after 2019 before the next breakthrough so I don't think PS5 is coming in 2019 unless it's going to be a small upgrade & in that case the PS4 bigger game library & cheaper price will make it a better choice for people in 2019 over a PS5 that's just a small upgrade from it.

 

[DeepEnigma]

2019 will be 6 years. It was already mentioned that they did not want a Gen as long as the last one. And the mere fact that they are now x86, it would make it easier to launch another platform at the average time frame console generations are, which is 5 years or so.

Also with the HBM ram and other graphics advancement (Polaris) coming out soon, by the time 2018/19 hit, I expect it will be a large jump in power over the current Gen.

 

[jroc74]

2019 will be 6 years. It was already mentioned that they did not want a Gen as long as the last one. And the mere fact that they are now x86, it would make it easier to launch another platform at the average time frame console generations are, which is 5 years or so.

Also with the HBM ram and other graphics advancement (Polaris) coming out soon, by the time 2018/19 hit, I expect it will be a large jump in power over the current Gen.

This plus Sony wouldnt really care seeing how the PS4 is selling. By 2019 the PS4 could be near 90 million sold. I would assume MS and Nintendo would want to get the next gen started sooner than later.

 

[The Artisan]

What server is saying is that the differences between launch or new have nothing to do with the perceptible differences between 900 and 1080 with regards to how different the plability of the same exact scenarios and circumstances were within a short period of time.

It has nothing to do with dev quality. At least, that's what I got, and you seemed to be misreading.

this is true. perhaps i was misunderstanding.