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PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale Discussion Thread 2 (read OP first)

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L

libregkd

Member
How 'bout Lightning with with Cloud as an alternate costume :b

In seriousness though I would vastly prefer Cloud not because I prefer his character (I really don't like either Lightning or Cloud too much to be honest) but because I feel he means alot more to the Playstation brand than Lightning does.

Plus his popularity would potentially increase the sales of this game by quite a bit. But I'm pretty much convinced that we're getting Lightning.
 
I

I-hate-u

Member
libregkd said:
How 'bout Lightning with with Cloud as an alternate costume :b

In seriousness though I would vastly prefer Cloud not because I prefer his character (I really don't like either Lightning or Cloud too much to be honest) but because I feel he means alot more to the Playstation brand than Lightning does.

Plus his popularity would potentially increase the sales of this game by quite a bit. But I'm pretty much convinced that we're getting Lightning.
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Exactly. Cloud means more to Playstation than Lightning ever will but I personally will prefer Sephiroth for the increase in the villian count.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Dusky said:
Why not Noctis then :p?
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Oh you! Funny that I debated between "in development" and "that is coming out soon". You wouldn't be asking that question if I chose the other phrasing!

Kagari said:
Is it though? Her games aren't that well regarded.
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Sony and SE have opposing goals. Sony wants iconic characters that sell PSAS. SE wants a character that will promote a future franchise. MvC3 had this same issue. What does SE have to gain from Cloud being in the game? FFVII needs no promotion, it is by far their most famous Final Fantasy game.

On the other hand, FFXIII degraded the series' reputation. A lot of people treated XIII-2 like it was a disease. They have a third game coming out, and they need to promote it. There's a sizeable group that will buy this game that either never bought FFXIII, or was jaded by it, that will become acquainted or re-acquainted with Lightning in this game. Some people will think she's really cool, and it will help establish her as an iconic character.

Even if it only moves a few copies, that's something for SE. Cloud does nothing for them. The only way Sony will get Cloud is if they pay SE enough to make them think it's worthwhile. All signs point toward this game being on the lower end of the funding scale, so I doubt we'll see that happen. Getting DmC Dante, a character very, very few people want compared to DMC Dante, is good evidence to back the claim.
 
V

Verendus

Banned
Serious question, as I've seen it mentioned before many times, how exactly does Lightning have more potential than Cloud as a character in this game?

It's a fighting game. So, the only thing is the moveset. Unless my memory of FFXIII is bad, and Cthulhu knows the game is shit so I've tried my best to forget it, but what did she have that makes her so unique?

She has a sword. Cloud also has a sword.

She has Odin. Cloud has about two dozen summons.

She has pink hair. He has yellow hair.

Whether she has some special invidual move, I don't know. But Cloud had some badass limit breaks like Omnislash and Meteor Strike.

It's much easier to create a varied moveset for him, because you can just use anything and everything you'd expect in a FF game with him.

Are people just throwing this statement out there? Because it really doesn't make sense.
 
Lord Phol

Lord Phol

Member
I'm in the Tidus group. FFX is pretty much the first thing that comes to my mind when someone mentions PS2, so many fond memories. Also he had some pretty nice moves in Dissidia, think he would work well in this game.
 
S

Spinluck

Member
I get that Cloud is iconic, and yes, I guess he is part of Playstation's history even though FFVII lore has been whore'd out on like every other thing. But objectively speaking, if you think about it, Lightning has far better moveset potential and would further diversify the roster.

EDIT: Yes she isn't the best FF character, but as I recall they all had their whiney terrible emo moments, or most of them. Except for Vaan, but he wasn't really a lead, the main cast was basically the leads in FFXII. Lightning's character would've been miles better if the writing was anywhere near FFXII quality, sadly it wasn't. Oh well. I still vote Lightning over Cloud.
 
V

Verendus

Banned
SpinDasher said:
I get that Cloud is iconic, and yes, I guess he is part of Playstation's history even though FFVII lore has been whore'd out on like every other thing. But objectively speaking, if you think about it, Lightning has far better moveset potential and would further diversify the roster.

EDIT: Yes she isn't the best FF character, but as I recall they all had their whiney terrible emo moments, or most of them. Except for Vaan, but he wasn't really a lead, the main cast was basically the leads in FFXII. Lightning's character would've been miles better if the writing was anywhere near FFXII quality, sadly it wasn't. Oh well. I still vote Lightning over Cloud.
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See?

There's that comment again. Please make a hypothetical moveset. I'm really curious.

I don't see how Tidus' moveset, or Squall's moveset, or Lightning's moveset, or Cloud's moveset etc. would have any significant differences. If anything, out of them all, Lightning seems like the one who would have the worst moveset since she's limited to one summon.

Tidus has no summons, but out of the 4, he can incoporate Bliztball too. This gives him one key difference in the general playstyle.

Whereas the others are just sword wielders, and outside of special limit breaks etc., they'll be very similar since they can use summons, items, magic etc. I mean, a vagina is not a move.
 
L

LuuKyK

Member
Oh god the Lightning x Cloud discussion.

Can someone please explain me why can I acess gaf via mobile but not on my note/PC? I am going crazy here. Its this way since yesterday. Wtf?!
 
I

Incendiary

Banned
Hey hey hey, if we're talking about the best Final Fantasy character for movesets, clearly Balthier is the best candidate. Because Balthier is awesome and because of the Licensing grid he can pretty much use any weapon/armor/magic from Final Fantasy XII including summons!

I just want to see Balthier again.
 
I

IntelliHeath

As in "Heathcliff"
What if we got Lightning and Cloud. PSA want Cloud, but SE want Lightning to be in; so they decided to come to the deal that they would put both in.
 
V

Verendus

Banned
Balthier Supers:

Super 1: Special move with his core weapon
Super 2: Fran jumps in for some tag team action
Super 3: His Airship and Summons blitz the stage
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Why on earth would someone think Lightning has a better moveset than Cloud? "Objectively", since that's a popular word, Cloud has far, far more moves to choose from than Lightning. FFVII has more spells, more summons, and more "super moves" to choose from. Admittedly, I didn't play FFXII-2, so if that somehow revamped the combat system to give Lightning a massive moveset she didn't have in XIII, let me know.

IntelliHeath said:
What if we got Lightning and Cloud. PSA want Cloud, but SE want Lightning to be in; so they decided to come to the deal that they would put both in.
Click to expand...
This is not how suits think.
 
O

Oyashrio-Sama

Member
ramza-jpg.jpg


Just think of dat moveset! He can throw stones and stuff!
 
Z

Zen

Banned
Verendus said:
See?

There's that comment again. Please make a hypothetical moveset. I'm really curious.

I don't see how Tidus' moveset, or Squall's moveset, or Lightning's moveset, or Cloud's moveset etc. would have any significant differences. If anything, out of them all, Lightning seems like the one who would have the worst moveset since she's limited to one summon.

Whereas the others are just sword wielders, and outside of special limit breaks etc., they'll be very similar since they can use summons, items, magic etc. I mean, a vagina is not a move.
Click to expand...

Lightning has ranged and melee attacks, limit breaks, Paradrigm shifts unlocking new movesets, and the one summon has multiple moves/forms to choose from. Cloud has melee, limit breaks and two sumons at most. None of the characters you mentioned are summoners, so the summons would be restricted to their supers if anything.

If anything Cloud has the worst moveset out of the four you've mentioned. When you stop and break down each character it becomes clear that Cloud is pretty limited when compared to Lightning, and Lightnign already has launchers etc in the mechanics of FFXIII for an easy translation. Though ideally Cloud should also be in the game.
 
V

Verendus

Banned
Karsticles said:
Why on earth would someone think Lightning has a better moveset than Cloud? "Objectively", since that's a popular word, Cloud has far, far more moves to choose from than Lightning. FFVII has more spells, more summons, and more "super moves" to choose from. Admittedly, I didn't play FFXII-2, so if that somehow revamped the combat system to give Lightning a massive moveset she didn't have in XIII, let me know.
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She doesn't. It's just nonsense.

All sword wielders are essentially carbon copies. What sets them apart are the individual moves, and older FF characters naturally had a hell of a lot more than the newer ones.

Zen said:
Lightning has ranged and melee attacks, limit breaks, Paradigmatic shifting, and he one summon has multiple moves to choose from. Cloud has melee, limit breaks and two sumons at most. None of the characters you mentioned are summoners, so the summons would be restricted to their supers if anything. If anything Cloud has the worst moveset out of the four you've mentioned.
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You can incorporate ranged and melee attacks for Cloud too. Considering some of his limits tend to be ranged. And since he has about 8 limits, they wouldn't be supers. You'd use some of them as normal attacks. His level 3 super would be Omnislash. The rest you incorporate into his normal moveset.

I lol'd at Paradigmatic shifting. Yes, because that matters. I'd love to know how you'd incorporate that in this game as if it's something significant.

Cloud doesn't have two summons at most, he can use all the iconic ones: Bahamut, Ifrit, Shiva, Odin and if we want to get crazy, just use Knights of the Round. And whilst Lightning's summon can use different moves, it would be a super. So, that hardly matters. Point is, she's limited to using one summon for a super. Cloud can just go ahead and have a super where Bahamut and Ifrit both come down to play.

Finally, Cloud can use plenty of magic spells. Most notably, Ultima which could work as one his supers.

The above applies to even Squall. Both him and Cloud could have a much better moveset since there are no limits to their moves. They can use everything in a FF game.
 
F

Figboy79

Aftershock LA
Man-is-Obsolete said:
The more I play the more effective a level 3 has become. Players have become really good at blocking and evading now making it harder to land the 1 and 2 supers. So level 3 supers in the games I have played lately have become a lot more effective because it's at least guaranteed to get kills. To me that's cool to see, and I have become good enough myself to work to a level 3 in a little over halfway through the match and still have enough time to get a couple if level 1's after that.
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Yeah, that's very true. I think it's more a match by match basis when it comes to what Supers you focus on in your match. Some matches, levels 1 and 2s will do, others, level 3s may be the best strategy. I think it's pretty cool.

Because we are being paired up randomly, it seems that we are constantly having to reevaluate battle strategy with each match.
 
Acquiescence

Acquiescence

Member
All hell would break loose (in the best sense possible) if Cloud managed to find his way into the roster. Few things would bolster sales more than the inclusion of the most iconic JRPG character to ever grace a Playstation console with his presence; not even Crash.

What a shame then that it's Lightning and her face like a slapped arse who will inevitably be revealed instead. TGS. Feel the dread.
 
Z

Zen

Banned
Verendus said:
Cloud doesn't have two summons at most, he can use all the iconic ones: Bahamut, Ifrit, Shiva, Odin and if we want to get crazy, just use Knights of the Round. And whilst Lightning's summon can use different moves, it would be a super. So, that hardly matters. Point is, she's limited to using one summon for a super. Cloud can just go ahead and have a super where Bahamut and Ifrit both come down to play.
Click to expand...


Cloud isn't a summoner, so they won't go crazy with the summons he has available in the game. Lightning does have a far better diversity of moves to choose from for being represented in the game, that's just fact. Sure older FF character have more spells, but they aren't going to include everything between 'weakest fire/ice/wind/water spell' -> 'strongest fire/ice/wind/water spell' if the character isn't primarily a caster. Lightning has all the elemental spells that you could need in putting her in a fighter, and paradgrim shifts would effect her moveset/gameplay instead of just being a casting option. It's already there in Dissidia, for instance where she's a more interesting character than Cloud.

EDIT: You're right, Squall would also be a better choice than Cloud.
 
O

Oyashrio-Sama

Member
I wouldn't even let him use a summon for a super. His limit breaks are good enough... You know what I would do? Black Materia as a item in battle. Summans a huge meteor that knocks AP orbs out of everyone.
 
V

Verendus

Banned
Zen said:
Cloud isn't a summoner, so they won't go crazy with the summons he has available in the game.
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Uh, who cares? Why would this even matter? He's not a summoner so he can't use more than one summon?

Summons would only make an appearance in a super. By their nature, they're game changers. Yuna would be a shit character because her playstyle relies on them and you can't bring them into normal gameplay.

Lightning has Odin.

For Cloud's summon super, you can get far more creative.

Having Ifrit, Shiva and Bahamut come down for your level 2/3 super for some action is much more interesting than just Odin. Not to mention, Cloud can just call Odin too. More options means more potential. Simple.
Lightning does have a far better diversity of moves to choose from for being represented in the game, that's just fact.
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No, it isn't. And you're not doing a good job of proving your point.
Sure older FF character have more spells, but they aren't going to include 'weakest fire/ice/wind/water spell' -> 'strongest fire/ice/wind/water spell' if the character isn't primarily a caster.
Click to expand...
You have a character who uses a sword, can use dozens of spells, can use dozens of summons, has about 8 special moves, and you think they wouldn't use magic spells because he's not a caster?

If anything, I would expect two or three magic spells as part of the normal moveset. Fire, Ice and Lightning are solid picks. They're part of what represent FF too. They don't have to be massive AP builders etc. But magic spells should be part of the moveset. They don't have to get stronger either.

It would also give Cloud far more combo potential when mixing ranged limits, with magic spells and close range melee.
Lightning has all the elemental spells that you could need in putting her in a fighter, and paradgrim shifts would effect her moveset/gameplay instead of just being a casting option.
Click to expand...
How would they affect her moveset? Give an example.

In a game like this, the Paradigm Shift would be worthless. It would cause balancing issues. You can't have a character who can switch between 3 different core styles when the game itself relies on giving characters one distinct style each. Toro changes styles, but the change of style is only to the moves he uses. Nothing else. That's how it'd have to be with a Paradigm Shift. And if that's the case, that's nothing unique.
 
N

Napalm_Frank

Member
I'm like 80% sure that if the game has FF rep it will be Lightning. But IF the game got FFX rep I'd much rather have Yuna than Tidus. Use dissidia style where she uses summons as her normal attacks.
 
Z

Zen

Banned
On that you are right, seeing the Midgar or the Weapons would be pretty cool. Maybe a Cloud stage could be fighting on one of the trains as it goes through the city. It could be spectacular.

Verendus said:
Uh, who cares? Why would this even matter? He's not a summoner so he can't use more than one summon?

Summons would only make an appearance in a super. By their nature, they're game changers. Yuna would be a shit character because her playstyle relies on them and you can't bring them into normal gameplay.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily, and that shows a lack of design sense on your part, as summons could also be used for was would be 'basic' attacks/deflections/buffs.

For Cloud's summon super, you can get far more creative.

Having Ifrit, Shiva and Bahamut come down for your level 2/3 super for some action is much more interesting than just Odin. Not to mention, Cloud can just call Odin too. More options means more potential. Simple.
Click to expand...

Not at all, because it's not 'just plain Odin', Odin has multiple attacks and forms in FFXIII that could be exploited, at worst, as well as the way you say Cloud could choose from Sheva/Ifrit/Odin.

You have a character who uses a sword, can use dozens of spells, can use dozens of summons, has about 8 special moves, and you think they wouldn't use magic spells because he's not a caster?
Click to expand...

Two things:

You just described a more limited version Lightning.

I did not say that they wouldn't let Cloud use any spells.

But magic spells should be part of the moveset. They don't have to get stronger either.
Click to expand...

Hey hey, that's exactly why the more limited but defined spell set of FFXIII isn't a problem, because as you say, they don't have to get stronger/weaker, they can simply be at their set level. You should go to the FXIII wiki and look at the list of FFXIII Spells and abilities once you eliminate redundancies, is it really taht different? Not at all. And just like you say that they'd probably choose the more iconic spells? You're right! That's the same reason why the added diversity of some FFVII wouldn't probably amount to all that much. They'd be spending the slots they do have on the more recognizable spells.

How would they affect her moveset? Give an example.
Click to expand...

I don't need to, it's obvious how being a ravager would change her moveset over a medic or a commando.

In a game like this, the Paradigm Shift would be worthless. It would cause balancing issues. You can't have a character who can switch between 3 different core styles when the game itself relies on giving characters one distinct style each. Toro changes styles, but the change of style is only to the moves he uses. Nothing else.
Click to expand...

...

Toro already stance shifts, which affects the moves he uses, just like how a paradgrim shift effects the moves Lightning would use, just like in Dissidia.
 
I

IntelliHeath

As in "Heathcliff"
Karsticles said:
Why on earth would someone think Lightning has a better moveset than Cloud? "Objectively", since that's a popular word, Cloud has far, far more moves to choose from than Lightning. FFVII has more spells, more summons, and more "super moves" to choose from. Admittedly, I didn't play FFXII-2, so if that somehow revamped the combat system to give Lightning a massive moveset she didn't have in XIII, let me know.


This is not how suits think.
Click to expand...

I know, but it's weird that people said that they saw cloud, and we have a "source" that claim that Lightning is in the game. I'm trying to make sense out of it.
 
S

Snapshot King

Member
Kagari said:
Cloud is leagues more iconic than Lightning. It'd be stupid not to include him and would make the came an instant purchase for some.
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Clouds also from the golden age of Final Fantasy and the FF7 box art is synonomous with the ps1, hell, in most articles about the vitas PS1 compatibility it just had a fat shot of the FF7 box art.

Whereas Lighting is from one of the worst entries in the series which was a colossal disappointment, AND is just a direct clone of Cloud.

That being said, itll be Lightning because whoevers making these character deals has their head up their ass and is clearly at the mercy of third parties need to push new or upcoming games.
 
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