Icyflamez96
Member
The research isn't the point of the piece though, which is why I don't think it's really worth getting hung up over. It's just supposed to be a cool design.
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Pokémon Community Thread 4: "Your Portal to What's Hip and Happening in Sinnoh!"
- Thread starter UltimateIke
- Start date
The research isn't the point of the piece though, which is why I don't think it's really worth getting hung up over. It's just supposed to be a cool design.
He literally said that he was doing the island trials in the second episode, so I think he'll have to start traveling eventually.
Professor Beef
Banned
Icyflamez96
Member
Now my boy Dunrago, he flyyyy
So I watched episode 10 of the Sun and Moon animé, it was alright but the Kahuna battle felt very low key compare to gym battle.
Next week episode seem interesting as Rowlet will be using a Z move, so it won't be just a Pikachu thing.
Yeah they did.
He will have to as there isn't much for him to explore in Mele Mele and quite honestly it's getting boring seeing him stuck there going to Pokémon School.
I also feel that he needs to catch his third Pokémon some time soon.
Next week episode seem interesting as Rowlet will be using a Z move, so it won't be just a Pikachu thing.
Yeah they did.
He will have to as there isn't much for him to explore in Mele Mele and quite honestly it's getting boring seeing him stuck there going to Pokémon School.
I also feel that he needs to catch his third Pokémon some time soon.
Icyflamez96
Member
"This isn't your typically trained Pokemon Ash"
Nigga it just got beat by a newly caught Rowlet. Shutup.
WOAHH The episode played the DP gym battle theme!
Nigga it just got beat by a newly caught Rowlet. Shutup.
WOAHH The episode played the DP gym battle theme!
papertoonz
Member
rowlet is so sneaky
rowlet is so sneaky
Just like a ghost
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Why are people using machine translate subs.
he always get them actually, even if small like a free lodging
well it's fanart, it means that it should have at least some knowledge of what it's trying to be a fan of right
If you actually take time you'll notice plenty of Aether employees aren't really smart too. Technically speaking a working ecology "cannot" overhunt.
he always get them actually, even if small like a free lodging
well it's fanart, it means that it should have at least some knowledge of what it's trying to be a fan of right
If you actually take time you'll notice plenty of Aether employees aren't really smart too. Technically speaking a working ecology "cannot" overhunt.
Icyflamez96
Member
How could you even look at that and say it's not art informed by Dunsparce's visual design? No, it's not playing off his thematic, because that's not the point of the piece. It's a visual evolution that veers off from the confines of its lore, while still clearly playing off of the design aesthetically.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
then why make one in the first place when it's not even connecting to the original piece besides the name? it feels shallow, no more different than a Donut Steel.
Yeah asking players to pay to trade or battle Pokémon would be annoying.
I mean I was fine with paying for Bank as it was £5 for a year and wasn't really required to play the game, but trading and on-battling is a staple of the series and has been free since gen 1.
Icyflamez96
Member
It's a creative and well executed attempt on a different take of Dunsparce, and just because it's a different take of it motif wise means it can be well done nonetheless? It's not going to be a well done evolution based on its official lore, because that's not what it's trying to be. It's only playing off its visual design, separate from the confines of its official background.
And what do you mean it's not connecting to anything besides the name? You're immensely overthinking things, because the visual similarities of those fan evolution to Dunsparce are right in your face. Just because it's the artists own twist on the official lore doesn't make that fact invalid.
Obviously there's more connection than just the name. That's a weird claim to make. If the name was the only connection, he could have drawn a solid green refrigerator and toaster and named them the same. That's what that would be. What is a Donut Steel?
Edit: Thank you Puruzi.
So it's an original fan design.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Maybe Pokemon will have its own network thing?
That because at that point it strays away. I've seen fanart that remains true to the roots, like say a pompadour-donning Pangoro evo or an opera singer Jynx. I feel these ones feel random and only relied on the looks. As a poster said, Dunsparce is a tsuchinoko and the fanart missed that aspect and instead went for a rather shallow approach.
Donut Steel is a derogatory term for an original design though. It's not "just" an original fan design, it has stuff like the designer "compensating something for the design". Like many Sonic OCs.
That because at that point it strays away. I've seen fanart that remains true to the roots, like say a pompadour-donning Pangoro evo or an opera singer Jynx. I feel these ones feel random and only relied on the looks. As a poster said, Dunsparce is a tsuchinoko and the fanart missed that aspect and instead went for a rather shallow approach.
Donut Steel is a derogatory term for an original design though. It's not "just" an original fan design, it has stuff like the designer "compensating something for the design". Like many Sonic OCs.
Icyflamez96
Member
But there's nothing wrong with that. There's value in that. If all fanart was confined to your views of what's acceptable, then we wouldn't get many amazing and creative takes on things. It'd be boring if all fanart tried to stay 100% within the confines of its background. I think the spin that this artist put on his Dunsparce evolution has just as much value and merit as someone who strives to come up with evolution that stays true to it's official motive. They just have different points, objectives. One isn't wrong. There's nothing shallow about that approach, and I think viewing it in such a way is shallow, to be honest. And I think in this case, it's weird to try to invalidate its merit for something it's not even trying to be.
It's not just the purpose behind it that determines why I like it, but the execution and craft as well. The fact that he was able to draw a Dunsparce evolution that plays so well off of his original look, (following its motif or not) in a way that I think pretty masterfully captures the essence of a good Pokemon design "visually" makes it a worthwhile piece. On the flipside, someone could try to make a piece that does follow its motif, and if the craft behind it isn't executed well, I'll of course appreciate the effort, but wont enjoy it as much. Craft being: technical drawing fidelity, how well it incorporates elements from its original design, how much it captures the essence of a Pokemon aesthetic, etc.
And I'm not saying you need to like it. That's not what I'm trying to do at all. You made your standards clear on what makes a good Pokemon, and clearly that bleeds over into what you think makes acceptable fanart. But of course when you're straight up dissing and acting like there's little value to an art form that I strongly believe does have value, I'm going to argue against that. Because there are many great pieces I've seen that go against your philosophy what makes good fanwork.
Geminosity
Member
Yup. Toxapex on the other hand...
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
And that's a fine stand to go with. Yet somehow you miss what I was getting at from the beginning.
Again, go to the first reply I used. That the fanart doesn't really "get" the design. That's what I was going for. My gripe isn't its "value" but how it connects with the material as a fanart.
No matter how much well drawn something is, if it merely only looks at something at its shallow view, the person didn't understand the whole thing. It's why I'm dismissive of those art regardless of how well drawn they are.
Hell, you see not liking Mawile that add saliva and actual mouth to their art, because it misses the point of Mawile from the very beginning. Or people who draw Vanilluxe line as though it's fully made of ice cream/snow, forgetting the icicle bulb from where its face is. Or people drawing Honedge and forgetting that the "face" on the scabbard is actually its blade.
I mean, if I were a teacher and asked something for an essay, and you wrote this really, really good paragraph but ultimately misses the question/theme of the essay, should I still grade you well because you put in so much effort and great work?
Also I find that statement about "how well it incorporates elements from its original design" and "essence" while at the same time goes on on how "it doesn't matter" really baffling. You can't just say "it incorporates elements of Dunsparce" while then saying that "it doesn't matter that it's not based on the tsuchinoko".
Also, this is me speaking, but "good" design is pushing it.
Icyflamez96
Member
I didn't miss anything. My whole argument against that was "that's not the point". The fact that you keep repeating the argument of how "the person didn't understand the design" means you're missing my point. And you're absolutely knocking the value/merit of this fanart by implying it's not informed the the original work. Then you say "why make one in the first place" if it's not to YOUR standard, and then compare it to Sonic OCs.
This is not a formal assignment. If the goal was "draw fanart of a Pokemon that properly incorporates its lore/motif" then it would fail at that. But my point that I keep repeating that you keep missing is that's not the goal of this fanart. That doesn't need to be the goal of every fanart.
The goal of it is to simply work off of the visual design while veering off from the confines of its lore, so that any observer can enjoy a different/creative take on the Pokemon. That's just as valid of a goal as making a piece that goes for lore consistency.
Here's a much more apt academic comparison that describes what you're doing. There's an assignment to write an essay on a book. It can be any kind of essay. A student turns in an Informative essay and you give him a bad grade because its not persuasive. This is why I think it's weird to knock this piece for something its not even trying to be, and what it is trying to be is just as valid as the other thing.
And this is one of the most baffling parts to me about your side of this whole thing. How can you look at those drawings and imply it's not incorporating elements from its original design? The similarities are right in your face, or at least I assume it would be that obvious for everyone. So I'll describe it so you know exactly what I mean. I find it self explanatory, I just think you're overthinking it. From Dunsparce to the next evolution, it's keeps essentially the same base look except his wings are bigger, and the tail on Dunspace grows and props itself up. The color scheme is exactly the same, the eyes are the same. A lot of it is the same, because its just building on Dunsparce's visual design.
I'm not going to go into full detail, but hopefully that lays out why I think implying that it isn't incorporating elements from its original design is ridiculous. And no, it doesn't matter what Dunsparce is based off of. As you can clearly see form the fanart, it's explicitly working off of Dunsparce's aesthetic design while veering off from its official lore. Because that's the point of the piece, and that's just as valid of a goal as trying to draw an evolution that attempts to stay consistent to its lore.
And this is me speaking. Looks better than a lot of official designs if you ask me. A lot of official designs aren't good, many being well below good.
rowlet is so sneaky
so CUTE.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
But then I'd argue they feel so off even as OGs. The great thing about Pokemon designs is that you could tell they have the system in mind with the design, and that's why how many people have a tendency to say "it looks like a digimon" or "it's overdesigned". Ironically most people who use that tend to use GB as point of reference.
As for the Dunsparce, no. Design isn't just looks. That's the whole point. It's not incorporating the original looks if it misses the tsuchinoko. Tsuchinoko aren't related to dragons. Now you know what would make it cool? If it became an orochi. At least that makes more sense with its progression from a snake cryptoid. Yes I get that "but just the looks", but then you don't understand the Pokemon and just look at it through the eyes, and thus missing on the idea of an existing Pokemon's evolution.Again, shallow interpretation of the design. It'd be like if someone thought Swablu "should evolve" into a blue phoenix because hey, it's blue and a bird! That's my point - it's not just about incorporating old looks. It's not just about aesthetics. It's cool for cool's sake, much like how art for art's sake. You're trying to tie it with an existing Pokemon, so you should learn that Pokemon.
Say people theorize on Mimikyu's evolution. While the base form is fine, it wouldn't hurt if it evolves right? It would be haphazard to simply give it a Raichu bedsheet because "hey it has Pikachu bedsheet!" Wouldn't it fit more if it actually loses the besheet know that the trainer loves it for what ever it is? And then there are people stating that it should be like Ditto but bedsheets - a cute idea sure and the designs they'd provide would be interesting, but again, misses the point of it having Pikachu disguise in the first place.
Or what about Farfetch'd, the Pokemon whose sole existence is based on a proverb? Giving it an evolution on its own kinda misses its point, but say we try to push it. It'd be missing the point if one would simply draw Farfetch'd as a "badass" samurai or just "it gets bigger". I've seen stuff like having a bunch of other ingredients being made into a weapon, or even an undead duck. And there's even a "once in a lifetime" mega evolution.
This is as bad as those things trying to make "parody" pokemon which are just inanimate objects with dumb names (not saying TPCi hasn't made dumb names, I am looking at you Litten line rehashing Litleo's namesake).
That's my problem with most of the fanbase and many people who are unwilling to look at Pokemon because of that mindset. There will definitely be those due to cultural differences. That doesn't meant they should shun on understanding things. Many seemingly ugly designs became great, or at least tolerable, once people realized how the design works.
woopWOOP
Member
Went through my old copies to see if I had any leftover Pokemon I could send over to Pokemon Bank. Turns out my old Diamond still had a box full of unhatched eggs. So I went ahead and hatched them all. It's a pretty strange feeling reading "bred 2007, hatched 2017" in the Pokemon summaries. Good lord, it's been that long already?
By the way they were all Cherubis. Thirty Cherubi eggs. I guess I really needed that Cherrim with the correct nature
By the way they were all Cherubis. Thirty Cherubi eggs. I guess I really needed that Cherrim with the correct nature
While I generally agree with you, let's not pretend that Gamefreak themselves haven't altered or added new elements to Pokémon through evolution. The Gen IV evolutions are very notable for this. In that sense, having something like Farfetch'd turn into a more badass version of itself isn't crazy. There are several Pokémon whose evolution is just bigger and better.
On the Mimikyu topic, wouldn't it also make sense to have starter/other popular Pokémon sheets? It picked Pikachu because everyone loves it right?
Icyflamez96
Member
I said that the fanart works off of its design, look wise. I was not saying that design itself, as a construct, only includes looks.
My whole main point is it's just a different take. It's not shallow, just different. And it makes for cool art that people enjoy. I'd argue that a lot of people that do this kind of art do "get" the design. It's necessary to get the design if they want to ensure that their spin on it will be different and creative in their own way. Both types of artwork can be enjoyed, just in different ways and for different reasons. Again, it's just like reading a persuasive essay and thinking it's shallow because you only enjoy informative essays. Now, there's nothing wrong with only enjoying informative essays and not persuasive essays. It's completely fine if you only enjoy the type of "take" you prefer when it comes to Pokemon fanart, but that doesn't mean the other take is shallow. It also doesn't mean people who draw that art are necessarily "not getting" something.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Pikachu primarily because mascot status, but in-universe stated that Pikachu is also a big popular Pokemon.
And I dunno, the Pokemon that were given evos in Gen IV didn't really have that "this pokemon is clearly meant to be shit" stuck in its lore.
While I'll take your word for it, honestly in my encounters I've seen otherwise. Hell in the recent romp of SM we got alolan forms that kinda missed the whole "habitat" thing and did designs because "oh well Vulpix went opposite of its type so this Alakazam should too!"
NipplesAndToes23
Member
We need an Electric/Ground pokemon other than Stunfisk. It is not good.
Icyflamez96
Member
I don't think that's true for everyone who does that kind of fanart. I'm sure it is in some cases, and that it's not something you could automatically assume they don't get if they do choose to do that kind of piece. I don't think it matters anyway if that's not the point of what they're going for.
I do agree that the "opposite" type thing feels a bit cliche in that fanart and I don't enjoy them much unless it's just a really well done design nonetheless.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
,
Aveyn Knight
Member
Maybe by Generation 20.
There were some points in Sun and Moon where I felt Alola was truly alive, but nowhere near the level of Breath of the Wild or Xenoblade. Or even Ocarina of Time XD
How about for the Mystery Dungeon series?
Nocturnowl
Member
I feel like I need a spiffy Decidueye avatar but I can't narrow down my choices, especially when Rowlet also exists.
Darn these Owl problems.
Darn these Owl problems.
I guess that would depend on the director, but I wouldn't expect Pokemon to go all huge open world anytime soon. Not for hardware reasons, but for gameplay. I think they want Pokemon to be fast and snappy, not wandering around a huge wilderness looking for shit.
Icyflamez96
Member
Everyone should have buizel avatars
Wut? Stunfisk is good as he's bulky.
He just needs a better ability to replace Limber as it's useless on him.
After playing Pokémon Sun and Moon? I would say not a chance in hell.
Game Freak doesn't want their players exploring and getting lost.
Cute Dragon Here
Member
*feels a bit embarrassed to say that he has just started playing Pokémon Moon, game finally came in yesterday*
It took me basically 2 months before I even started. Kind of regret not buying it earlier now...
Have to say things feel really strange this time around coming from gen 6.
If a Pokémon mainline game were to show up on the Switch, I expect meltdowns everywhere.
It took me basically 2 months before I even started. Kind of regret not buying it earlier now...
Have to say things feel really strange this time around coming from gen 6.
If a Pokémon mainline game were to show up on the Switch, I expect meltdowns everywhere.
ShironRedshift
Member
Meh, don't really care at this point. The big thing there is if Pokémon games do come to the Switch, their online features will be behind the paid-online paywall. ...But even if a Pokémon game never comes to the Switch itself, since Nintendo has embraced paid online, that's only a matter of time regardless. Do that being the case, since this is the path Nintendo has decided to walk, I don't see what difference it makes.
ShironRedshift
Member
It was really surprising that that turned out to be as good as it did, even if it was a bit short.
But remember, Detective Pikachu disappeared for quite a while after it was first announced/we first heard rumblings of it only to suddenly get a release date out of nowhere one day. So who knows; maybe it's the same thing again and we will get more out of nowhere. Or maybe not. Just wish there was more clarity about that type of thing either way.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
tie in movie, duh!
