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Police officers are bypassing juries to face judges (WaPo)

Piecake

Member
The Sixth Amendment guarantees an ”impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed." For nearly a century, courts have treated these words as a protection for defendants alone — one they can freely waive.

But there's reason to think this conception of the jury guarantee — merely an entitlement that defendants can spend as they please — is wrong or at least incomplete. Juries don't just protect defendants; they give the community a voice in criminal justice. It's a guarantee of not only an impartial jury but also a jury drawn from the community where the crime took place. Sometimes, to be sure, the community can protect defendants from an overzealous prosecution. But in other cases, a jury drawn from the community might actually protect the community by convicting.

That's especially true when the defendant is part of the government. Indeed, one of the complaints in the Declaration of Independence was that the crown had sought to immunize British soldiers from murder prosecutions by holding ”mock trials" far from the communities where the crimes occurred — that is, in places where juries were less willing to convict.

Yet today, it's not uncommon for police-officer defendants to bypass juries and opt for bench trials. Three officers charged in connection with Freddie Gray's 2015 death in Baltimore were acquitted by a judge, leading the state to drop charges against the remaining defendants and spurring calls for restrictions on jury-trial waivers. Under Maryland law, prosecutors have no power to object to bench trials.

One can understand why police officers might prefer bench trials. Judges, who are drawn from the legal elite, are likely less skeptical of police than inner-city residents, many of whom may have experienced police misconduct firsthand. Advocates for officers may argue that judges are less biased against the police than city residents. But one person's ”bias" is another's lived experience.

Consider Wilson's assertion that Smith probably possessed the gun in question because, based on the judge's ”nearly 30 years on the bench," ”an urban heroin dealer not in possession of a firearm would be an anomaly." Critics accused Wilson, who is white, of racial bias based on this ill-considered line. A jury drawn from the city — nearly 50 percent of the population is African American, and more than a quarter of St. Louisans live below the poverty line — very well might have approached the case with different assumptions.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...f053ff30921_story.html?utm_term=.e5701c18b252

I think this is a rather interesting take.

Do you think police officers, who are agents of the government, should be allowed to bypass a jury (made up of members of the community) and have their fate decided by a judge (another agent of the government who likely does not share the same experiences as that community)?
 

Piecake

Member
Not that it matters either way

Well, if juries were actually representative of the population and not horribly sliced and diced by prosecutors to get the exact make-up of biases and prejudices needed to convict someone, then it would be pretty significant.
 
End qualified immunity.

Make police officers take up brutality insurance.

Give them a raise to compensate for a typical policy. Let them pay more if they want to be brutal on the job.
 

Enzom21

Member
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Juries aren't much better though.
 

Ishan

Junior Member
Apropos avatar lol.


Nope. When those that get to study the law is equal across ethnicities I'll support it. Till then? Nope.

"No rights the white man is bound to respect"

Isn't part of our laws include being judged by our peers?
I mean many countries do this . For example India doesn't have jury trials . I'm sure it's not that uncommon worldwide
 
I think everyone should bypass juries.
Let the law be dealt with by people who studied the law.

*Coming from Germany where jury trials are very rare. And we have civil law rather than common law. civil law>>>>common law.
Germany usually uses a mixed panel of professional and lay judges in the place of juries though, doesn't it? All in all, lay judges seem like a good way to avoid the worst problems of juries while still letting parts of society beyond the legal sector have a say in it.
 
I mean many countries do this . For example India doesn't have jury trials . I'm sure it's not that uncommon worldwide
I don't know the state of the judicial systems in those countries, but I do know that I do not trust the American legal system to operate completely internally.

It might work for them, but it would not work here. I can't imagine how many shady backdoor deals would go on to skirt the law.
 

Sean C

Member
I'm not so sure. While juries are definitely biased towards police officers in many cases, it's feasible that a judge would let a cop slide on some legal loophole that a jury would nail him to the wall for.
A legal loophole is otherwise known as "the law".

In Canada, bench trials are the norm. You only ever see jury trials when the defendants insist on them in the hopes that the jurors will prove more sympathetic and less knowledgeable about specifics than would a judge. I've never known any Crown prosecutor who'd rather have a jury.

The article's conceit that the right to trial by jury has something to do with the community is wholly incorrect. It has always been about the right of a defendant to a fair trial.
 

karobit

Member
i'm sure this doesn't happen but it would definitely be easier to threaten or bribe one judge rather than twelve jurors.
 

Sean C

Member
i'm sure this doesn't happen but it would definitely be easier to threaten or bribe one judge rather than twelve jurors.
You don't need to threaten or bribe twelve jurors. You just need one juror to get a mistrial, and once that happens the odds of retrial go way down, and go down more with each successive one. That's why defense attorneys generally prefer juries, in fact.

The notion that judges are being threatened or bribed rampantly is indeed more a conceit of fiction.
 

DietRob

i've been begging for over 5 years.
Time to start campaigning against judges that do not convicted plainly guilty cips then like the one in St. Louis. Then vote them out.

This might actually be better tbh.
 

Instro

Member
Time to start campaigning against judges that do not convicted plainly guilty cips then like the one in St. Louis. Then vote them out.

This might actually be better tbh.

Possibly, but what is plainly guilty to us is often ambiguous under the letter of the law. We really need to adjust our laws on how police are allowed to operate, but that seems unlikely.
 
I mean many countries do this . For example India doesn't have jury trials . I'm sure it's not that uncommon worldwide

Like with so many things, the USA is pretty much the only country to still use an outdated concept that doesn't work for the given purpose in such an extensive manner.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury

However, given the system in place as it is, it might be a lot more difficult to get a white judge to convict a white cop for what most people would consider straight-up murder, but years of normalizing this behavior would leave a white judge blind to this difference in perspective and reasonable approach.
The judge selection system in the US means that a cop from a racist town is going to be a judged by a probably equally racist judge from the same town, so with that in mind it would probably not make a lot of difference which system is used.

But a future government is definitely going to have change the whole fucking thing to get with the times. It is 2017, and the US is still playing by 19th century rules.
 
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