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PoliGAF 2017 |OT1| From Russia with Love

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ICE is doing massive raids and checkpoints along major freeways in Houston. Also heard some reports of people getting stopped at Mexican markets. this shit fucking sucks. people really thought the mass raids wouldn't happen :(

Beyond the horrible human costs, this is going to completely fuck up the Texas construction industry. There are ton of people who came here illegally in the 90s / 00s, learned skilled trades, raised families and are valuable members of society. You can't just hire some high school graduate and download all of that knowledge Matrix style. Its going to take years to replace what those folks know, assuming there are even people willing to do the work.
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
Seems like really bad timing for this report given that California is on pace for a record rain year. I get the aquifers are being drained and won't replenish at the same rate, but this story is pretty crazy to me. Reservoirs are near capacity right now. Also there are plenty of farmers making money right now.

None of it has to do with Trump. Watch the one on coal. Kids essentially afraid of going to school just want to be given a life-time job to feel like men, while others have to bust their asses to get through school and land one. They live in a world where their parents never needed school and don't want to feel dumb themselves so they want to avoid it. They have kids at 16-18 years old then cry they have to put bread on the table to feel like grown ups, and they essentially want the job to be handed over and guaranteed for life no matter the consequences on other people and the environment.

So much projectionism coming from those people it's amazing.

That farmer was complaining he can't make money, but his few employees are low paid Mexicans who his president rallies against and wants to throw out, and he acts all patriotic while denying climate change is real.

A real circus.
 
None of it has to do with Trump. Watch the one on coal. Kids essentially afraid of going to school just want to be given a life-time job to feel like men, while others have to bust their asses to get through school and land one. They live in a world where their parents never needed school and don't want to feel dumb themselves so they want to avoid it. They have kids at 16-18 years old then cry they have to put bread on the table to feel like grown ups, and they essentially want the job to be handed over and guaranteed for life no matter the consequences on other people and the environment.

So much projectionism coming from those people it's amazing.

Wooosh. My bad. I missed the entire point you were making. got it.
 

kirblar

Member
None of it has to do with Trump. Watch the one on coal. Kids essentially afraid of going to school just want to be given a life-time job to feel like men, while others have to bust their asses to get through school and land one. They live in a world where their parents never needed school and don't want to feel dumb themselves so they want to avoid it. They have kids at 16-18 years old then cry they have to put bread on the table to feel like grown ups, and they essentially want the job to be handed over and guaranteed for life no matter the consequences on other people and the environment.

So much projectionism coming from those people it's amazing.

That farmer was complaining he can't make money, but his few employees are low paid Mexicans who his president rallies against and wants to throw out, and he acts all patriotic while denying climate change is real.

A real circus.
In poor communities putting down schooling is a means of social control to keep people from moving up and out.
 

chadskin

Member
C41xwWnWYAAuPv-.jpg

RIGGED!!!!

Killary and Hate!!!!
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
In poor communities putting down schooling is a means of social control to keep people from moving up and out.

My grandparents were like that. Going to the universities "in the city" was for communists. Good thing my mother bailed out or I'd be living in poverty in that shit hole of an open prison.
 

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
So much is happening, but this seems notable, further proof that the White House is shutting out media it doesn't like, with these NYT correspondents receiving silence.

MfdqK5m.jpg
 
So much is happening, but this seems notable, further proof that the White House is shutting out media it doesn't like, with these NYT correspondents receiving silence.

MfdqK5m.jpg
Trump and his team only seek reassurances from his base, so they're not going to believe NYT journalists over their fuhrer anyway.
 

sangreal

Member
So much is happening, but this seems notable, further proof that the White House is shutting out media it doesn't like, with these NYT correspondents receiving silence.

MfdqK5m.jpg

I'm sure they simply don't tell Trump, since he has to be handled like a child and would definitely give a (poor) statement
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xxSwH8B31w

Have you guys seen this? The whole russia/cia/trump/flynn thing is a lot deeper than it seems, the CIA is apparently working to undermine trump, and actually did some shit to fuck over Obama too. Dennis Kucinich breaks it down on Fox news, to an anchor that doesnt really understand what he's saying.
President Tweet needs no help to undermine himself and the office he holds.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xxSwH8B31w

Have you guys seen this? The whole russia/cia/trump/flynn thing is a lot deeper than it seems, the CIA is apparently working to undermine trump, and actually did some shit to fuck over Obama too. Dennis Kucinich breaks it down on Fox news, to an anchor that doesnt really understand what he's saying.

Kucinich is a conspiracy theorist who has worked with the Syrian Nazi Party.
 
Some guy (with a Jewish sounding name?) on Don Lemon on CNN just said something about green frog avatar people on twitter harassing him (the guy)

WTF

What are these frog accounts?

(Edited for clarity)
 

Doc Holliday

SPOILER: Columbus finds America
This can't last for 4 years can't it? I mean the entire federal government seems stuck at the moment, and that's probably a good thing considering the alternative.

I knew he was going a fucking disaster, but this even worse than I imagined. I mean....wow.

Some guy (with a Jewish sounding name?) on Don Lemon on CNN just said something about frogs on twitter harassing him..:

WTF

How is that possible? Our president has a Jewish son in law. Fake news!
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xxSwH8B31w

Have you guys seen this? The whole russia/cia/trump/flynn thing is a lot deeper than it seems, the CIA is apparently working to undermine trump, and actually did some shit to fuck over Obama too. Dennis Kucinich breaks it down on Fox news, to an anchor that doesnt really understand what he's saying.

Some guy (with a Jewish sounding name?) on Don Lemon on CNN just said something about green frog avatar people on twitter harassing him (the guy)

WTF

What are these frog accounts?

(Edited for clarity)

You've both missed a lot
 
I'm seeing a lot of talk about this whole notion that the Deep State is out to get Trump and lots of handwringing about what it means for out democracy. The thing is, the whole thing is based on speculation and some incredibly questionable sources. The leaks we have so far aren't, like, just meant to embarrass members of the administration, they're about things that are actual national security concerns. Before I believe that the real story is anything other than the Trump administration's ties to Russia or wax poetic about the solution being the ballot box, I'm going to need to see a lot more than this.
 
Who was that woman with the bullet necklace from before?
Oh hell no, could you imagine Katrina Pierson up there?
I forgot about her! Has she been left behind?
The "defense" of repealing regulations on not killing baby wolves is not going to endear environmentalists to this bill...
If wolves are killing 17 moose and only partially eating them, then there's too many moose. I bet Young also disposed of those carcasses, rather than letting them contribute to the food chain. Wolves change the course of rivers, etc. (Actually, I don't believe Young's anecdote at all.)
Petraeus is awfully choosy for a man who should be in fucking prison.
65 million people will take to the streets if Petraeus is tapped for a Cabinet position. Hiring someone who shared Top Secret information with his journalist mistress, when you wanted to "lock Hillary up" for her emails?
C41xwWnWYAAuPv-.jpg

RIGGED!!!!
It must be strange to socialize with someone who is at least partly studying you so they can make fun of you at some point.
The Deep State doesn't even exist
I have never, ever heard that phrase before this week, but now it's tripping off every conservative's tongue.
 
None of it has to do with Trump. Watch the one on coal. Kids essentially afraid of going to school just want to be given a life-time job to feel like men, while others have to bust their asses to get through school and land one. They live in a world where their parents never needed school and don't want to feel dumb themselves so they want to avoid it. They have kids at 16-18 years old then cry they have to put bread on the table to feel like grown ups, and they essentially want the job to be handed over and guaranteed for life no matter the consequences on other people and the environment.

So much projectionism coming from those people it's amazing.

That farmer was complaining he can't make money, but his few employees are low paid Mexicans who his president rallies against and wants to throw out, and he acts all patriotic while denying climate change is real.

A real circus.

I'm also super familiar with these types of people. They want jobs that don't require anything beyond high school, they want at least $80K a year with paid vacation and other benefits like healthcare, they want less taxes taken out of such a paycheck, and they want these jobs to be jobs that already existed years ago so they don't have to even pick up a new cert for anything.

It's pure fantasy. Literally no different than me saying I want to grow up and be a Jedi.

I'm seeing a lot of talk about this whole notion that the Deep State is out to get Trump and lots of handwringing about what it means for out democracy. The thing is, the whole thing is based on speculation and some incredibly questionable sources. The leaks we have so far aren't, like, just meant to embarrass members of the administration, they're about things that are actual national security concerns. Before I believe that the real story is anything other than the Trump administration's ties to Russia or wax poetic about the solution being the ballot box, I'm going to need to see a lot more than this.

Also, this whole leak thing is just what happens in literally any organization where the higher-ups aren't respected and didn't earn their places. Does Trump think journalists weren't asking Obama's staff these kinds of questions? Of course they were, but Obama had their respect and so the staff was more likely to just say "No comment." But with him, they're gladly spilling the beans.

The Deep State doesn't even exist

edit: honestly even as a leftist I have a "let them fight" mentality between Donald and the IC

Same here, about both points. The idea of a deep state full of Tom Cruise's pulling splinter cell ops is just fiction. They're all mostly office workers who have a shitty boss now, and they're blowing the legs out from under him because he sucks as a boss. It's not even his politics, it's just his lack of fitness for the office.
 

faisal233

Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xxSwH8B31w

Have you guys seen this? The whole russia/cia/trump/flynn thing is a lot deeper than it seems, the CIA is apparently working to undermine trump, and actually did some shit to fuck over Obama too. Dennis Kucinich breaks it down on Fox news, to an anchor that doesnt really understand what he's saying.
Yeah im more likely to believe that Russia is funding the extremes of both the left and right that believe what Dennis is saying. Seems too coincidental that the foundations of geopolitics lays out that exact plan and we have the likes of Flynn and Stien alinged to the same goals. Now Dennis wants us to forget that Russia hacked our election and make the IC the enemy.
 
I'm seeing a lot of talk about this whole notion that the Deep State is out to get Trump and lots of handwringing about what it means for out democracy. The thing is, the whole thing is based on speculation and some incredibly questionable sources. The leaks we have so far aren't, like, just meant to embarrass members of the administration, they're about things that are actual national security concerns. Before I believe that the real story is anything other than the Trump administration's ties to Russia or wax poetic about the solution being the ballot box, I'm going to need to see a lot more than this.
related, people here go full on conspiracy theory when it fits the agenda

like fuck. All of those "WH Alternate" type Twitter accounts should be straight up banned or at least ridiculed. Those are not real sources!!! Also random youtubers "putting everything together"....Not a real source. Man, there is so much REAL news during the day that we don't need to be wasting time having a heart attack over fake tweets and "too good to be true" stories.

Wait for the established news organizations to break stories, check to see if these stories have been verified by multiple sources, THEN REACT. Anything less is dishonest bullshit and cheapens/weakens the actual journalism when it comes.

/twocents
 
whyamihere posted about this earlier but I'm pretty hopeful that Washington Democrats can take back the State Senate, as there will be a special election in a heavily Clinton, albeit GOP-held seat soon.

Winning it would take the number of states with Democratic trifectas up to a whopping seven, something we could more than double through 2018 just by winning governor's races in Clinton states (NJ in 2017, IL, MA, MD, NM, NV, VT in 2018) to go to 14.

Assuming nothing else changed in governor's races and composition of state legislatures, AK, CO, LA, ME, MN, MT, NC, PA, VA, and WV would also have split governments, meaning Republicans would have trifectas in 26 states. Of those, I would say Colorado and maybe Maine are the only ones that stand a reasonable chance of going full blue - other states are too red, too gerrymandered, or in MN's case, don't hold their State Senate elections until 2020.

We can flip a number of those GOP trifectas into split governments however by winning the governor's mansion. FL, MI, NH and WI are all obvious targets, while there are other swing states that swung hard to Trump (IA and OH) or red states that are trending bluer (AZ, GA, TX) that should be targeted. Some red states might also have odd circumstances making them more competitive, like Kansas in 2014 - I'd say going for South Carolina might not be a bad idea, as we have a lot to gain from being able to veto a gerrymander there.

And speaking of, referenda to set up independent redistricting commissions should be a top priority in 2018. DailyKos Elections had a post about this a while back. Even in red states we can squeeze out a few more House seats.

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2015/06...ng-Democrats-can-fight-back-at-the-ballot-box

So yeah, 2018. Big year. Aaron for DNC Chair.
 

mo60

Member
I'm listening to 538's recent podcast and it's kinda interesting. I do think democrats need to appeal more to their progressive wing, but they need to worry about targeting more conservative areas to at the same time for statewide, national(maybe) and etc races.

It looks like I'm agreeing with this person on 538's latest podcast right now on ignoring trump and focusing more on policy especially economic issues if applicable in the next election.
 

Nelo Ice

Banned
whyamihere posted about this earlier but I'm pretty hopeful that Washington Democrats can take back the State Senate, as there will be a special election in a heavily Clinton, albeit GOP-held seat soon.

Winning it would take the number of states with Democratic trifectas up to a whopping seven, something we could more than double through 2018 just by winning governor's races in Clinton states (NJ in 2017, IL, MA, MD, NM, NV, VT in 2018) to go to 14.

Assuming nothing else changed in governor's races and composition of state legislatures, AK, CO, LA, ME, MN, MT, NC, PA, VA, and WV would also have split governments, meaning Republicans would have trifectas in 26 states. Of those, I would say Colorado and maybe Maine are the only ones that stand a reasonable chance of going full blue - other states are too red, too gerrymandered, or in MN's case, don't hold their State Senate elections until 2020.

We can flip a number of those GOP trifectas into split governments however by winning the governor's mansion. FL, MI, NH and WI are all obvious targets, while there are other swing states that swung hard to Trump (IA and OH) or red states that are trending bluer (AZ, GA, TX) that should be targeted. Some red states might also have odd circumstances making them more competitive, like Kansas in 2014 - I'd say going for South Carolina might not be a bad idea, as we have a lot to gain from being able to veto a gerrymander there.

And speaking of, referenda to set up independent redistricting commissions should be a top priority in 2018. DailyKos Elections had a post about this a while back. Even in red states we can squeeze out a few more House seats.

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2015/06...ng-Democrats-can-fight-back-at-the-ballot-box

So yeah, 2018. Big year. Aaron for DNC Chair.
So what you're saying is there's hope?. Cuz good god I need some right now. I want the GOP to be completely annihilated in 2018.
 
So what you're saying is there's hope?. Cuz good god I need some right now. I want the GOP to be completely annihilated in 2018.
Nowhere to go but up, really.

Except in the Senate, ten Trump state Democrats, that could end in disaster.

Cruz wouldn't lose even in a wave year right? Too much name recognition and his favorability isn't completely tanked.
It's difficult to find much Texas-specific polling, but what seems to be the most recent PPP poll that asked about him (in August 2016) had him at 39/48. They also had Julian Castro losing to him by 12 points though, and I imagine Joaquin won't do much better. It seems far more likely Cruz gets taken down in a primary.

But, given Texas is moving towards Democrats in the long run and we don't really have many offensive opportunities in the US Senate elections next year, I still say Democrats should give it all they've got. Flipping NV, AZ and TX (and holding all else) gives us the Senate - Cruz is notoriously unlikeable and it's been suggested even the Texas GOP would like to get rid of him - we have no idea what Trump's approvals look like in November, if all that's left are the true believers then even Texas is winnable - and Castro winning a seat in Texas gives us a pretty solid presidential candidate for the future.

Make no mistake, Cruz would start out as a heavy favorite in a general, like probably 90%. But so did Hillary.

Russ Feingold 2009
Perfect example. Wisconsin went for Obama by a similar margin to what Trump carried Texas by and Republicans were still able to knock off a very popular incumbent two years later. It didn't even come as a shock. It did last year when Feingold was seen as having the race on lock, but that just further accentuates the point.

Trump could have sub-30 approval ratings going into the 2018 elections putting everything up for grabs. He could also preside over a booming economy, or enjoy a rally effect from a major terrorist attack and get rewarded at the polls. Or voters might give downticket Republicans a pass for his antics and Democratic gains would be more muted (losses in the Senate, likely). There's no way of knowing this far out.

What we do know are vague trends - Trump is quite unpopular now, enough that it would put the House in play, and the WH incumbent party typically loses big in midterms (98 and 02 are the only real exceptions in recent years - by comparison, Reagan's GOP "only" losing 26 seats in 1982 was seen as a good result. Midterms range from mediocre to abysmal it seems). But even that conventional wisdom could give way to unusual circumstances as it did in those years I mentioned.
 
That hurts. ��
Maybe he's saying he was the favorite in 09, only to lose in 2010.

It seems ridiculous now, but people also assumed back then (I'd say this changed in early 2010) that Blanche Lincoln would hold on in Arkansas pretty easily. Well-liked incumbent with a massive war chest in a state that still voted Democratic downballot (before 2010 Democrats held a full trifecta in the state government, both Senate seats and 3 of the 4 House seats). Then she committed the unspeakable crime of serving as a Democrat when that uppity black fellow took office.

If you want to look at a possible precedent for say, Dean Heller losing, maybe look there - although Nevada hasn't lurched nearly as left in presidential elections as Arkansas did right when Lincoln lost.
 
I don't think GOP turnout will be that badly affected, especially because Trump loves campaigning and I see him campaigning for senate seats. Trump still has like 86% approval among GOP, higher than Bush had at same time among GOP folks.

Democrats will need to turnout their base in similar to 2016 numbers in places like Nevada to beat GOP candidates.
 
Donald J. TrumpVerified account
‏@realDonaldTrump

Thank you for all of the nice statements on the Press Conference yesterday. Rush Limbaugh said one of greatest ever. Fake media not happy!

You hear? BEST EVER.


Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 2h2 hours ago
Despite the long delays by the Democrats in finally approving Dr. Tom Price, the repeal and replacement of ObamaCare is moving fast!
Totally!
 
I don't think GOP turnout will be that badly affected, especially because Trump loves campaigning and I see him campaigning for senate seats. Trump still has like 86% approval among GOP, higher than Bush had at same time among GOP folks.

Democrats will need to turnout their base in similar to 2016 numbers in places like Nevada to beat GOP candidates.
Eh. Hard base voters are always going to turn out. Even when Obama had 40% approval he still had sky high approval with those who identify as Democrats.

We should probably prepare for high GOP base turnout, so our challenge is two-pronged. 1, make sure Democrats turn out in similar numbers. If our voters are still mad as hell (and not gonna take it anymore), I suspect enough will rise to the occasion to save our Obama-Trump Democrats (Baldwin, Brown, Nelson etc) although I worry a bit about making sure everyone is on the same page with regards to voter ID and registration laws.

2 is to make sure the Independents who vote are the soft left-leaning ones who hate Trump but were too disillusioned or ignorant to come out in Obama's midterms, and hope the reverse is true for the right-leaning ones. I'd assume most independents actually vote in a fairly predictable fashion.

Also, spanner in the works - Trump could just as easily blow off Republicans if he doesn't feel like they're supporting him. What happens if Ryan and McConnell give up on repealing Obamacare, or funding the border wall or whatever else he wants done? He could encourage his voters to stay home if anything.
 
Eh. Hard base voters are always going to turn out. Even when Obama had 40% approval he still had sky high approval with those who identify as Democrats.

We should probably prepare for high GOP base turnout, so our challenge is two-pronged. 1, make sure Democrats turn out in similar numbers. If our voters are still mad as hell (and not gonna take it anymore), I suspect enough will rise to the occasion to save our Obama-Trump Democrats (Baldwin, Brown, Nelson etc) although I worry a bit about making sure everyone is on the same page with regards to voter ID and registration laws.

2 is to make sure the Independents who vote are the soft left-leaning ones who hate Trump but were too disillusioned or ignorant to come out in Obama's midterms, and hope the reverse is true for the right-leaning ones. I'd assume most independents actually vote in a fairly predictable fashion.

Also, spanner in the works - Trump could just as easily blow off Republicans if he doesn't feel like they're supporting him. What happens if Ryan and McConnell give up on repealing Obamacare, or funding the border wall or whatever else he wants done? He could encourage his voters to stay home if anything.

That last one feels like an extremely unsafe assumption, to the point that I would strongly advise against spreading it around. The Republican hardcore ALWAYS shows up, and they ALWAYS vote in a straight line ticket. That's been the rule for the last 6 years, and I think we should be examining 2018 and 2020 with that in mind.

Our chief objectives should be threefold: resurrect the state parties so we have candidates for every race, excite our base, and figure out a way to overcome voting restrictions. Don't even think about driving down Republican turnout, there's never going to be a decent reward on investment there.

We are so fucked because idiots are running the country. It's like babehz first game of Risk

On the flip side, if they were competent, they'd have probably already instituted a legal Muslim ban, taken away millions of people's health care, created a wildly regressive new tax code, and probably a ton of horrible things I can't even imagine.

So, you know, mixed blessings.
 

Blader

Member
Winning it would take the number of states with Democratic trifectas up to a whopping seven, something we could more than double through 2018 just by winning governor's races in Clinton states (NJ in 2017, IL, MA, MD, NM, NV, VT in 2018) to go to 14.
A month ago I would've said there's no hope for unseating Baker in MA next year, even though he was a Never Trumper. But his conspicuous absences at the Women's March, the airport protests, etc. are starting to draw more and more attention. The Dems here will need to hammer him as a coward who refuses to stand up to Trump, and it'll still be an uphill battle, but I think there's a little more blood in the water for him now. The fact that Warren is also running for re-election next year should hopefully lend a little more attention to the governor's race too.
 
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