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[Gaborn]

Check the Constitution.

Article 2 Section 1

Yep, as it says,

In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice-President.)

as I noted above, the Senate has even chosen the VP before. The only thing I was wrong about is I thought the Senate chose the President.

 

[speculawyer]

Oddly enough an Alberta man managed to donate $500 to Obama's campaign, as per the daily Metro. Didn't mention whether or not the campaign detected it or not.

Don't do it. It will just cause problems later.

But jeez, we are talking about $500 from Canada . . . our neighbor with the longest undefended border on the planet, our biggest trading partner, and our closest ally.

What we should be worried about is the $500 billion in government deficit funded by largely by the communist Chinese.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Here in New Mexico they've pulled all funds from the Republican Steve Pearce.

All money is for McCain. That was established very early.

 

[Rancid Mildew]

I think McCain's speech was solid in delivery but little else. I'm really sick of these vague promises and I think America is going to see through them especially once the debates magnify the emptiness. All this hateful rhetoric, especially once it fails miserably in November, is going to do infinite harm to the GOP.

On a separate but related note, I can't help but feel sorry for John McCain. Up until recently, I considered him one of the greatest politicians of our time. It sucks seeing him forced to reduce his standards at the behest of his party and get savagely ridiculed by the opposition when in reality, he's one of the few politicians that has demonstrated courageous devotion to a lucid set of ideals. It's unfortunate he couldn't win the nomination in 2000 when he was actually respectable.

 

[Cyan]

Her father is Condoleeza Rice, amirite?

 

[Slurpy]

God I am watching O'Reilly interview Obama and I want to vomit.

Yeah, he's a pretty beligerant tool and an asshole. Talk about disrespectful- doesn't even let him get his thought across before throwing out the next crappy hypothetical. Obama certainly had alot of guts agreeing to that shit. He acts as if he's disciplining a child.

 

[gcubed]

man, Huck has such an amazing personality... he needs to be a little less fundie.

 

[aceface]

Whether you like or hate either of them I think they were both pretty effective for the most part. Palin's speech was stronger than McCain's because the base wanted that red meat and she was better in delivering it than anyone expected I think.

I don't know, I think Palin's attacks might turn a lot of moderates off, people who might think that she doesn't have the political clout/resume to make attacks like that. In general I think people respect community organizers. Just the feeling I get anyways.

 

[speculawyer]

Basically, aside from any of the crazy religious stuff, he is a Republican that many independents and even some Dems could vote for.

Well, as an atheist and fiscal conservative, he's not my cup of tea.

 

[deadbeef]

Don't do it. It will just cause problems later.

But jeez, we are talking about $500 from Canada . . . our neighbor with the longest undefended border on the planet, our biggest trading partner, and our closest ally.

What we should be worried about is the $500 billion in government deficit funded by largely by the communist Chinese.

Chinese involvement with our election process... wait are you talking about the Clintons? What was that mess about 10 years ago? My mind is hazy.

 

[AniHawk]

Yep, as it says,

as I noted above, the Senate has even chosen the VP before. The only thing I was wrong about is I thought the Senate chose the President.

So if they tie, Obama's president, and McCain's the VP. Or Palin's the VP. Either way, it's a winning combination.

 

[Tim-E]

Got this in my e-mail from the lovely Joe Biden:

John McCain just accepted the Republican nomination and adopted the most conservative platform in the history of his party.

After days of negative attacks -- and no mention of real proposals to fix our economy, get more people health care, or make America safer -- the party that brought you eight years of disastrous policies is asking for four more.

Well, not if we have anything to say about it.

Across this nation, people like you have joined this movement because you believe that we are better than the past eight years. And now that we are entering the final stretch, it's going to take all of us to bring the change we need.

Will you make a donation of $25 or more at this crucial moment to change our country?

After the last eight years, it's up to you to keep America's promise alive.

How can John McCain pull us out of the deep hole we're in when he voted with George Bush more than 90% of the time?

The American people deserve more than a 10% chance at change.

No matter what McCain says, we can't bring about change by relying on the same ideas that have failed us for the last eight years.

Show the McCain campaign that people coming together, giving what they can afford, and working toward a common purpose will transform this country.

Change begins with you. Please make a donation of $25 or more now:

https://donate.barackobama.com/changeweneed

Thanks for everything you're doing,

Joe

 

[Tamanon]

Chinese involvement with our election process... wait are you talking about the Clintons? What was that mess about 10 years ago? My mind is hazy.

I know there was Russian involvement with the DNC during the Clinton years through Roger Tamraz, something like $300k funneled from Yeltsin to the DNC coffers.

 

[Gaborn]

I don't know, I think Palin's attacks might turn a lot of moderates off, people who might think that she doesn't have the political clout/resume to make attacks like that. In general I think people respect community organizers.

That was definitely a dangerous line, but I think it plays better in suburbia and probably worse in more heavily urban areas and inner cities, who were pretty much locked up by Obama anyway. I agree though Palin had a fine line to walk between being perceived as "angry" (which I don't think she was even with her harsh rhetoric) and being "strong." I think she walked it for the most part, and again, considering how low many people set their expectations for her she probably met and exceeded them which put her ahead of the game a bit.

Anihawk - If they tie, Obama Prez, Palin VP.

 

[Stoney Mason]

man, Huck has such an amazing personality... he needs to be a little less fundie.

He always comes across as the most reasonable and personable major Republican that is out there. Romney would kill to have that personality. Of course a lot of his more rabid bible thumper stuff scares the crap out of me and until a Republican stands up to his party and charts a new course I'm not sure why anybody should trust any of the major contenders out there.

 

[Zeliard]

Well, as an atheist and fiscal conservative, he's not my cup of tea.

Are you mostly socially liberal?

 

[johnsmith]

Are you mostly socially liberal?

Aren't socially conservative positions based entirely on religion?

 

[speculawyer]

Chinese involvement with our election process... wait are you talking about the Clintons? What was that mess about 10 years ago? My mind is hazy.

:lol

Even if that stuff were true, it pales totally in comparison to the hundreds of billions Bush needs to borrow from China to keep the US government from going bankrupt! :lol :lol

 

[Hitokage]

Yep, as it says,

as I noted above, the Senate has even chosen the VP before. The only thing I was wrong about is I thought the Senate chose the President.

Twelfth Amendment:

The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and all persons voted for as Vice-President and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate.

The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted.

The person having the greatest Number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.

The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.

House picks President. Senate picks VP.

 

[Slurpy]

Wait, what?

Has Clinton weighed in on Palin yet?

Only a couple text statements.. pretty weak and forgettable rebuttals. Nothing pointed.

 

[numble]

Got this in my e-mail from the lovely Joe Biden:

One thing I've noticed is that these e-mails are tailored to how much you've contributed in the past, so it usually asks for only what they think you're capable of donating. The email Joe Biden sent to me doesn't ask for $25, for example.

 

[mj1108]

Completely anecdotal from Larry King's site on CNN:

Quick Vote
Will you vote for John McCain?
Yes 19% 1544
No 81% 6629
Total Votes: 8173
This is not a scientific poll

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/larry.king.live/

 

[Gaborn]

Aren't socially conservative positions based entirely on religion?

Or traditions or ethics, not necessarily religion. (JayDub for example is an atheist and decidedly pro-life)

Hitokage - Thanks for more confirmation, as I said my only mistake was I switched them initially. People don't realize in that scenario Lieberman would obviously vote for Palin rather than Biden.

 

[CharlieDigital]

man, Huck has such an amazing personality... he needs to be a little less fundie.

Yah, minus the fundie, he's like, a pretty solid presidential candidate.

More from his wiki:

At least he understands the importance of science!

Huckabee supports NASA, and said in November 2007 that "Whether it's the medical technologies that saved many of our lives and the lives of our families, it's the direct result from the space program. We need to put more money into space and technology exploration."

And the importance of math!

...in his first year as governor Huckabee signed...a $7.6 Million Smart Start program for primary school students to learn "the basic skills of reading, math, and character."

He's kind of toned down his stance against gays since the 90's

Huckabee said he would not change the "don't ask, don't tell" policy, which prohibits openly gay personnel from serving. "...you don't punish people for their attitudes," he said. "You punish them if their behavior creates a problem, and it's already covered by the Uniform Code of Military Conduct."

He's not perfect, but seems like a better choice than McCain or Palin for any sort of real or meaningful change.

I'm an atheist as well. Fiscal conservative? Well, I think spending for the right social programs responsibly is better for society as a whole.

 

[deadbeef]

I know there was Russian involvement with the DNC during the Clinton years through Roger Tamraz, something like $300k funneled from Yeltsin to the DNC coffers.

Here we go..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/campfin/stories/cf021098.htm

The Thompson report describes the Chinese plan as "a broad array of Chinese efforts designed to influence U.S. policies and elections through, among other means, financing election campaigns." The report says the information that the Chinese wanted to influence the 1996 presidential contest is "fragmentary" but cites no example.

In a summary, the report says: "Illegal foreign contributions were made to the DNC and . . . these contributions were facilitated by individuals with extensive ties to the PRC."

 

[Zeliard]

Aren't socially conservative positions based entirely on religion?

Mostly, I wouldn't say entirely. Abortion, for example, isn't a religious decision for some pro-life people.

 

[saelz8]

The policy in the speech was rather typical for a Republican. Pretty disappointing. It didn't do a lot of outreach to moderates and independents on issues that they care about. It talked, about issues like drilling and school choice which was really speaking to the converted. I think that was a missed opportunity. Many Americans needed to hear from this speech something they have never heard from Republicans before. And in reality, a lot of the policy they've heard from Republicans before.

.

 

[speculawyer]

Aren't socially conservative positions based entirely on religion?

You'd think so, but no. Jaydub is anti-abortion but an atheist. It makes no sense to me but someone described it best with "Jaydubya is a 'brother-human-supremecist'."

I think it is just his psychology of needing sharp black & white lines for everything, hence his extremist Libertarian positions.

 

[Tim-E]

One thing I've noticed is that these e-mails are tailored to how much you've contributed in the past, so it usually asks for only what they think you're capable of donating. The email Joe Biden sent to me doesn't ask for $25, for example.

I actually didn't know that. I've donated a little over $100 in total because I haven't had a lot of money to donate as I'm a poor college student.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Only a couple text statements.. pretty weak and forgettable rebuttals. Nothing pointed.

Well, we'll have to wait and see. I know some are disappointed by the lack of strong counters, but what are they going to do? Going on the counterattack now would be largely ignored right now as we're still in the mode of analyzing the convention, and being too hasty to set the record straight may border on being perceived as damage control.

 

[Tamanon]

Here we go..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/campfin/stories/cf021098.htm

Yup, Chinese also, Fowler was a dirty DNC guy, dude had no qualms about corruption.

And expect more forceful Clinton stuff starting Monday when she stumps in Florida. They're holding the attacks and such until the campaign gets underway next week.

 

[HylianTom]

Anihawk - If they tie, Obama Prez, Palin VP.

Not necessarily.

We might get a 50-50 tie in the Senate, with one independent senator voting for the Democrat (Sanders) and the other independent senator voting for the Republican (Lieberman). Per the 12th Amendment, in this scenario the Vice President does not get to break a tie - the tie stands.

If the tie is not resolved, succession defaults to the next person in line: Speaker Pelosi.

Vice President Pelosi? The mind boggles.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

how did Obama do on O'really?

any utubes?

 

[CharlieDigital]

You'd think so, but no. Jaydub is anti-abortion but an atheist. It makes no sense to me but someone described it best with "Jaydubya is a 'brother-human-supremecist'."

I think it is just his psychology of needing sharp black & white lines for everything, hence his extremist Libertarian positions.

I thought JD's position was more that the embryo has a choice too and it should be allowed to make it? (It makes no fucking sense now that I've typed that :lol)

 

[johnsmith]

how did Obama do on O'really?

any utubes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luA0AMP51Gc

 

[Tamanon]

Jaydub's abortion stance is borne out of rights of embryos, not religion.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

You know, when you look at it and see how the Republicans are trying to run this race on character and personality, Obama is the only one of the Dems that had a real chance at winning. The others wouldn't have had the charisma and pull of Obama and Hillary is way too polarizing and would have excited the GOP base more than Palin has. Seriously, it would have been war hero versus a woman who had a husband get head in the oval office.

 

[velvet_nitemare]

Only a couple text statements.. pretty weak and forgettable rebuttals. Nothing pointed.

I'm really interested to hear what she has to say. Always got the impression the Clinton machine could play dirty with the best of them, and the GOP can't play the sexism angle on this one.

 

[numble]

how did Obama do on O'really?

any utubes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i6cOT9BIDk

beaten

 

[Spiderjericho]

Thought Obama carried himself verywell in the interview with O'Reilly.

What exactly is Clinton going to be doing on Monday?

And this thread or the one following will be impressive during election night...

If Palin/McCain wins, a lot of folks will be eating crow...

If Obama/Biden win, they will be vindicated...

And I like Palin, but as someone who grew up in the inner city, and have seen the type of "change" or progress and sense of urgency to help the poor, how can she condemn a community organizer? I understand she was a mayor, followed by a governor, and should be considered a legitimate VP candidate, but it was not tactful and didn't consider those constituents (but then again...they're the lost voice...since they do not really vote or are really attended to).

 

[CharlieDigital]

I'm really interested to hear what she has to say. Always got the impression the Clinton machine could play dirty with the best of them, and the GOP can't play the sexism angle on this one.

SOMEHOW, they are going to prove you wrong :lol

I just KNOW it!

 

[Tamanon]

You know, when you look at it and see how the Republicans are trying to run this race on character and personality, Obama is the only one of the Dems that had a real chance at winning. The others wouldn't have had the charisma and pull of Obama and Hillary is way too polarizing and would have excited the GOP base more than Palin has. Seriously, it would have been war hero versus a woman who had a husband get head in the oval office.

I dunno, Hillary wouldn't have to deal with a built-in "fear bubble" like Obama does.

 

[numble]

You know, when you look at it and see how the Republicans are trying to run this race on character and personality, Obama is the only one of the Dems that had a real chance at winning. The others wouldn't have had the charisma and pull of Obama and Hillary is way too polarizing and would have excited the GOP base more than Palin has. Seriously, it would have been war hero versus a woman who had a husband get head in the oval office.

Hey, the GOP says what families do is a personal matter! They wouldn't attack Bill for that.

 

[BoboBrazil]

Yeah, he's a pretty beligerant tool and an asshole. Talk about disrespectful- doesn't even let him get his thought across before throwing out the next crappy hypothetical. Obama certainly had alot of guts agreeing to that shit. He acts as if he's disciplining a child.

Where's the video at?

 

[Son of Godzilla]

Am I wrong in thinking this election basically comes down to PA?

 

[speculawyer]

I thought JD's position was more that the embryo has a choice too and it should be allowed to make it? (It makes no fucking sense now that I've typed that :lol)

Exactly.

It is just a bright-line demarcation point. It makes no sense to me. If that is when a person is a person then we should all be going crazy trying to invent ways of capturing fertilized eggs that are spontaneously aborted all the time. (i.e., God is the biggest abortionist in the world.) But we don't.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

You know, when you look at it and see how the Republicans are trying to run this race on character and personality, Obama is the only one of the Dems that had a real chance at winning.

In fairness, you could argue that this strategy is a reactionary one, and not necessarily the same campaign they would have run with a different set of candidates.

 

[speculawyer]

Am I wrong in thinking this election basically comes down to PA?

Yes. PA is pretty solidly Obama. I really don't think Sarah Palin is gonna make a difference. Catholic Biden and GOP bashing of Obama's 'community organizing' for catholic churches will more than make up for any Palin effect.

It might all come down to that same fucking state that it comes down to every time: Ohio.

 

[CharlieDigital]

Exactly.

It is just a bright-line demarcation point. It makes no sense to me. If that is when a person is a person then we should all be going crazy trying to invent ways of capturing fertilized eggs that are spontaneously aborted all the time. (i.e., God is the biggest abortionist in the world.) But we don't.

There was a number from NYT in 1988 quoting research that the miscarriage rate is around 31%. It would be a pretty fucking crazy world if we treated unborn fetuses (let alone embryos) as human beings.

 

[Gaborn]

Not necessarily.

We might get a 50-50 tie in the Senate, with one independent senator voting for the Democrat (Sanders) and the other independent senator voting for the Republican (Lieberman). Per the 12th Amendment, in this scenario the Vice President does not get to break a tie - the tie stands.

If the tie is not resolved, succession defaults to the next person in line: Speaker Pelosi.

Vice President Pelosi? The mind boggles.

I'm not sure the VP is explicitly forbidden from breaking a tie, he is a member of the senate (as the President of the Senate) after all, and that's the entire point of having a VP in any case.