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Polygon: COD WWIIs diversity is nothing more than marketing
- Thread starter Inuhanyou
- Start date
NoblesseOblige
Banned
I wouldn't exactly say they lost because of a polygon article.
Interfectum
Member
This is bad even for Polygon.
The whole "forced diversity", "diversity for marketing", and "virtue signaling" thing is gamergate language.
I think you misunderstood the article. It's arguing that minorities aren't featured enough and just reduced to a checkmark. Something which is of course impossible to say since the game isn't out yet.
The complaint about token characters isn't unique to gamergate
If you would have copy pasted the article and put it in KiA, I wouldn't have known the difference apart from a few terms. ¯_(ツ
_/ ¯Maybe it's just polygon being tone deaf, but that's not an excuse.
I'm not sure I'd see people on KiA arguing for more minority involvement. The polygon article is more in line with some of the responses after force awakens was releasedIf you would have copy pasted the article and put it in KiA, I wouldn't have known the difference apart from a few terms. ¯_(ツ
Maybe it's just polygon being tone deaf, but that's not an excuse.
http://www.indiewire.com/2015/12/hyper-tokenism-the-force-awakens-while-the-black-man-sleeps-162287/
Just that they couldn't even wait to see the final product.
plagiarize
Banned
I don't understand how their video content can be so good and their website such trash.
But I think everyone understands that's the way things are.
But I think everyone understands that's the way things are.
Neuromancer
Member
Wow Polygon, what a hot take!
CoD has let you choose to be a woman or a person of color in multiplayer since 2013. That makes them light years ahead of some other major games I could mention.
CoD has let you choose to be a woman or a person of color in multiplayer since 2013. That makes them light years ahead of some other major games I could mention.
IdreamofHIME
Member
From SolidSnakex in the other thread:
Simply epic.
In polygons defense, they're not saying the game was an all-white production...They said the Trailer reveal event was.
I didn't watch, can anyone say if there were women or non white dudes doing the presentation?
Owen not so Good at writing.
Messofanego
Banned
Nick Robinson, Tara Long, Simone De Rochefort, Griffin McElroy and Russ Frushtick are good. Nick and Tara were the remnants of Rev3.
Deft Beck
Member
Diversity and representation mean nothing unless you put in the effort to make your diverse representatives meaningful to the larger context of the game's themes versus just being stapled in there.
I would appreciate more minority representation in historical games if they make a proper effort to make the characters meaningful to the larger narrative and respectful to the real life military personnel.
The Polygon article is arguing that diversity is "marketing", which is an argument KiA is definitely fond of: "Devs are forcing diversity for marketing points". It's not masked by the same vitrol as KiA, which is why I called it tone deaf.
India had about as many soldiers in WWII as did the UK proper, and the largest all-volunteer army in history. There's no historical merit to WWII being a whites-only war, even outside of the Pacific front.
tenderbrew
Member
I wish people would honestly stop giving them clicks. They write crap like this all the time, and then we all click on it to laugh at them and they cash in. Cycle repeats.Let this terrible website die in irrelevancy like it deserves to.
Frushtick is still living in a fantasy land where he believes Sony exclusives don't sell well. Like he's a Team Xbox writer in 2007.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
From SolidSnakex in the other thread:
Simply epic.
How do you fuck that up? It's not even like he's some random low level employee in which case they may hav some sort of a point. He's a fucking director. How do you miss that?
Buy rushing a weak article to print for the clicks?
Charles Brandon
Member
Article is bullshit but let's examine the non-white contributions in WW2
So, we've got the european powers (not including dominions) - Britain, France, Germany/Austria, Russian, Finland, Italy, various others - pretty much all white although I dare say Britain may have had the odd black or brown face.
Then there are the Turks, who span a number races given their location. Then there are the Arabs in North Africa, then there are Britain's Indian troops and the Gurkhas (from Nepal).
Then we have China and Japan, obviously 100% non-white.
The ANZACs - would they include soldiers from indigenous groups? I have no idea.
And then there is the US and Canada, The US in particular had segregated black troops as recognised in this game and in Battlefield One.
edit: Did Britain have any (sub-Saharan) African troops?
Did I get anything wrong or miss anyone out (almost certainly I did).
In games, I guess the biggest omission is Chinese, Indian and Gurkha representation although I don't claim to have played every WW2 game so I'm not sure. I'd love to play a Gurkha mission though.
So, we've got the european powers (not including dominions) - Britain, France, Germany/Austria, Russian, Finland, Italy, various others - pretty much all white although I dare say Britain may have had the odd black or brown face.
Then there are the Turks, who span a number races given their location. Then there are the Arabs in North Africa, then there are Britain's Indian troops and the Gurkhas (from Nepal).
Then we have China and Japan, obviously 100% non-white.
The ANZACs - would they include soldiers from indigenous groups? I have no idea.
And then there is the US and Canada, The US in particular had segregated black troops as recognised in this game and in Battlefield One.
edit: Did Britain have any (sub-Saharan) African troops?
Did I get anything wrong or miss anyone out (almost certainly I did).
In games, I guess the biggest omission is Chinese, Indian and Gurkha representation although I don't claim to have played every WW2 game so I'm not sure. I'd love to play a Gurkha mission though.
rakkadakka
Member
Regardless of who is making the game it seems odd to see that stuff tacked on as a PR blurb after showing us yet another landing on Normandy and fighting on the western front..
Why not feature the 442nd? A highly decorated infantry regiment made up of Japanese-Americans (mostly from Hawaii) who fought for a country that was also interning people who had the same background. To me that just seems ripe for great story telling, although not what I would expect from COD.
It's possible that the story sections that they are talking about end up being a significant part of the game. Which I hope is the case. From what we have seen though that seems unlikely.
Even if the Polygon writer badly misses the point and seems to be catering to an audience that wants to get offended, there is a point to be made here. Is this about really showcasing the variety of ways people experienced WWII or is this about just redoing the same movie that John Wayne was in 60 years ago.
Why not feature the 442nd? A highly decorated infantry regiment made up of Japanese-Americans (mostly from Hawaii) who fought for a country that was also interning people who had the same background. To me that just seems ripe for great story telling, although not what I would expect from COD.
It's possible that the story sections that they are talking about end up being a significant part of the game. Which I hope is the case. From what we have seen though that seems unlikely.
Even if the Polygon writer badly misses the point and seems to be catering to an audience that wants to get offended, there is a point to be made here. Is this about really showcasing the variety of ways people experienced WWII or is this about just redoing the same movie that John Wayne was in 60 years ago.
SlipperyFishes
Banned
Except Polygon were asking the team to do more than checkboxing, KiA don't want any diversity at all. Very different.
On this point they were talking about the people on stage, not in promo videos. The hosts and guests were 100% white.From SolidSnakex in the other thread:
I usually go past these kind of statements and opinions since I am just a guy from another culture. I don't get the lawsuits on every good occasion and all these gender/color scandals. But this shit right here is just fucking ridiculous.
Polygon gonna Polygon, but hey, you got that click of mine.
Polygon gonna Polygon, but hey, you got that click of mine.
Messofanego
Banned
That would be really interesting.
UncleSporky
Member
People get properly lambasted for saying things like "I don't mind women/trans people/other ethnicities in my games, I just want them to be written well. I want them to suit the game, and not just be thrown in for the sake of diversity." The assumption is that these people will always find an excuse to call minorities "written poorly/unrealistically," and the retort is "why do they need to be written well or suit the game, when white males aren't held to that same standard? Why are they default?"
This article feels like arriving at the same conclusion from the opposite side of things. Going so left you end up on the right. Polygon doesn't mind diversity, it just wants it to suit the game, and not have it thrown in just for the sake of diversity.
This article feels like arriving at the same conclusion from the opposite side of things. Going so left you end up on the right. Polygon doesn't mind diversity, it just wants it to suit the game, and not have it thrown in just for the sake of diversity.
Schrödinger's cat
Banned
If I'm outraged by the incompetence in constructing an article purposefully aimed at eliciting outrage..
..did the article still succeed?
..did the article still succeed?
I'm glad Polygon are pushing for more diversity, but I'm not fond of a left leaning gaming site legitimizing the idea that "diversity is just marketing". My issue is the framing of the article.
I'd be with them if it was a more thoughtful long form article, arguing for more representation from East Asia, and especially The Middle East (at least to make up for the fact that we're always the terrorists that need to be eradicated by the white American hero).
But no, we get a bullshit tone deaf click bait article like this.
BudokaiMR2
Member
Considering this is Polygon I wouldn't be surprised if they just tried to spin putting some minorities on stage as just more pandering and evil evil "marketing".
There is no interesting point or discussion being covered by this article. It is just a pathetic hot take about a product which they even admit they have no real concrete knowledge of.
names2hard4you
Member
Seems like you just can't ever win this war. If you say the cast is all white males, it's not diverse enough. If you say you have a multi cultural race/gender representation it's considered "forced" or marketing. If you don't mention anything it's because you are trying to hide something.
What's a business to do in this case Polygon?
What's a business to do in this case Polygon?
franklyshankly
Member
I'm not sure why this would even matter though? If it's a diverse development team, does it really matter if the handful of people at a press event are all white?
boiled goose
good with gravy
Polygon asserts it's only marketing.
Then covers their ass saying they wont know till it launches.
Trollish, cowardly, click bait, bigot bait article.
Shame. Shame.
Then covers their ass saying they wont know till it launches.
Trollish, cowardly, click bait, bigot bait article.
Shame. Shame.
llien
Member
Spaced Harrier
Member
Diversity in a WWII game would be having Russia, Parts of Scandinavia, Central and Eastern Europe, Africa & their peoples etc as focal points of their games and not the usual US UK character and Normandy landing level.
Reagan's BR
Banned
I just want to shoot at Nazis in a video game.
Messofanego
Banned
Schrödinger's cat;234874615 said:
Schrodinger's outrage?
Portugeezer
Member
What did polygon think of BF1 reveal?
Principate
Saint Titanfall
It's almost like Polygon doesn't actually care about diversity just clicks and ad revenue.
CoD had a russian campaign at one point. Stalingrad mission was pretty glorious at the time and you'll play from that point until you actually reach Berlin.
Such a shame that these aren't in or the attack on Poland.
For all the people on here using this employee as an example of ethnic diversity in leadership need to understand his title. Development Directors are merely task scheduling managers. They don't make design decisions, they don't make art. They work in excel sheets, ask how long something will take, and later ask why it isn't done yet. At Sledgehammer games Glen Schofield and Micheal Condrey are the two top leadership positions and they are both white men. Most if not all of the largest game studios are run by white men.
Charles Brandon
Member
Well that may be true but I don't think it's particularly relevant with regard to diversity.
excelsiorlef
Member
Nevermind
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