I'm sure Jason has a friendly relationship with Colin as well. Should we hold him to that same standard as well?
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Polygon/Verge writer says Naughty Dog staff said inappropriate things to her (quote)
- Thread starter Iacobellis
- Start date
I'm sure Jason has a friendly relationship with Colin as well. Should we hold him to that same standard as well?
AdventureRacing
Member
There are so many things wrong with this post. Firstly your victim blaming. The onus shouldn't be on the victim to go through the exact right channels, the onus is on the perpetrator not to commit sexual harassment in the first place. There is no right or wrong way to come forward and by questioning her you are absolutely part of the problem and are a big reason why people don't come forward in the first place.
Secondly she doesn't work for naughty dog. She had no responsibility to them and doesn't answer to them as a company. Why would it be dealt with in house?
Thirdly she works an an industry with a disgusting attitude towards journalists and women. Her livelihood was at stake here as was her credibility. Have you not been paying attention these past few days? Even women who are extremely wealthy and have a lot of sway in their industry and the media have been too afraid to come forward. Asking her k go to the company that harassed her in the first place to get help isn't as easy as you make out.
Social media gives these women a platform to voice their concerns as part of a greater movement to hopefully stop people like you from questioning their motives.
Hopefully you take a step back and have a think about what you're saying and why it's so harmful to women and generally to people who have been abused or harassed.
innervision961
Member
The colin /druckman tweet thing went down all around the same time Colin showed his ass on a day of celebration of women. Thats when I was done with both tbh, and thats why this applies here as far as Im concerned.
Birds of a shit feather randy.
RumbleHumble
Banned
Not that you asked, but I'm a huge ND fan. Bought every game from Jak onward. I'm boycotting the shit out of them until they deal with the issue appropriately.
Inb4 "Your loss"
Tone and execution mean nothing to this girl apparently.
ScientificPizza
Banned
Can you provide some links? Did Druckmann retweet that shit Colin said?
Oh, you were there? Also in no way does tone or execution make up for that bullshit.
RumbleHumble
Banned
So you were there?
innervision961
Member
No he didnt retweet the bad Colin tweet, but he was retweeting some of Colins ridiculous political videos that had some of that whole the lefts a bunch of babies nonsense in it.
DAREALGUMMY
Member
Yeah, she should handle being joked about sleeping around for stories with more dignity.
WaterAstro
Member
You can't fully investigate anything when it happened 17 months ago. Paper trail doesn't last that long, especially if it's electronic.
Putting an arbitrary amount of time on the investigation isn't going to change the fact that the evidence is most likely gone. You can choose to believe if there is or isn't evidence, but that isn't going to change Naughty Dog's statement.
Any links? Just want to see what he was retweeting.
zenspider
Member
I hate hearing these accusations out of context of the entire exchange - maybe they were making bad jokes about House of Cards! - but that's a very gross thing to say to a stranger, and very inappropriate in a professional (I assume) setting.
I said it in the last ND thread - it's a shame they have nothing on the horizon (who knows when Last of Us 2 will release) to make thsse stories affect what seems to matter most: that bottom line.
I said it in the last ND thread - it's a shame they have nothing on the horizon (who knows when Last of Us 2 will release) to make thsse stories affect what seems to matter most: that bottom line.
ScientificPizza
Banned
Yes you can
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
.
ScientificPizza
Banned
Don't take bath salts and post.
The Living Tribunal
Member
I smell a ban!
ShironRedshift
Member
So much for innocent until proven guilty, eh? Victims of sexual abuse are always "guilty until proven innocent." They're assumed liars unless they have absolutely iron clad evidence that they're telling the truth, and even then they probably still just deserved it, or it's just a joke or whatever.
This right here is why "innocent until proven guilty" is nothing more than an empty platitude. Because if you assume the defendant is innocent, you're assuming the plaintiff, the victim, is guilty (of lying). They're mutually opposed claims. But of course, we're never taught to think of it that way. We're only taught that the defendant's presumed innocence matters. And so you get shit like this. It's wrong to accuse someone of sexual harassment/assault/rape without concrete proof, but it's fine to call a victim a liar based on absolutely nothing. That innocent until guilty is purely a one-way street.
In any case, this nonsense is why victims of sexual harassment/assault/rape rarely so much as come forward, never mind bringing the culprits to justice. Just the accusation brings on further harassment all by itself.
Like... why not believe her? Why would you not believe her? There's no need to worry about guilty until proven innocent or whatever, since she's not even naming anyone. She's not saying who said this, so there is no one to defend about. There's no one to worry about "wrongly losing their job or whatever" since there's no way of knowing who she's talking about. It's impossible. So why be so concerned over some nonsense, impossible scenario that doesn't apply to begin with?
Why not just take victims at their word? What's so hard about that? I just don't get it. All shit like this does it just make the problem worse--make victims even more hesitant to come forward, cause all that does is open themselves up to more accusations and harassment and abuse, and like... why even bother? It's no wonder so many just close themselves off, cause who could blame them for thinking that it's not worth it at all, when it just opens themselves up to even more bullshit, and i doesn't help justice get served or anything, so why bother?
Just believe victims. It ain't that hard. False accusations do happen, but they're WAY, WAY rarer than all the accounts of harassment and abuse and assault that never even so much as reach the courtroom because the victims are terrified of what will happen if they formally accuse they're attacker and how even if they're willing to put up with that, based on all statistical evidence, it likely won't make a difference and they'll go free regardless because of how hard it is to get convictions for shit like this. Why be so concerned about the less likely scenario? I don't get it.
Just believe victims people. It ain't that hard.
And in any case, props to this woman for speaking up. Posts like this are unfortunately exactly why that takes so much courage. Why putting stuff like this out there unfortunately means not just reliving the abuse and harassment, but putting yourself at further risk and dealing with so much more nonsense as well. Props to her and I can only hope stuff like this makes anyone else who may have been affected, not only at Naughty Dog but as a victim of sexual harassment, assault, or rape anywhere at any point in their lives able to find the courage to speak up as well.
innervision961
Member
I looked but Im having trouble finding it now, not saying its been scrubbed but this has been a few months ago.
Honestly, it was more of like damn, yall are the good guys, you champion accessibility in games (fantastic) trans rights (awesome), you portray women in games wonderfully (as of late anyway) and to be retweeting and amplyfying that garbage... just felt wrong to me. Maybe I misread the situation. Things have been pretty shitty lately in regards to social issues, for obvious reasons.
You think this will affect their bottomline? Lol please.
I think people should believe (unless proven guilty)the person saying they have in some form or way have been abused.
BUT I ALSO FEEL PEOPLE
on not believing just about everyone that says it. I have personally witness people use things like "im gonna say i was sexually assulted in order to have some kind of gain" (whether it be financial or emotional support or social "baggage" (followers) ) so it can be hard to trust everyones sayings.
at the end of the day ive just come to terms people are pieces of shit some way or another .
BUT I ALSO FEEL PEOPLE
on not believing just about everyone that says it. I have personally witness people use things like "im gonna say i was sexually assulted in order to have some kind of gain" (whether it be financial or emotional support or social "baggage" (followers) ) so it can be hard to trust everyones sayings.
at the end of the day ive just come to terms people are pieces of shit some way or another .
And if it was February, shit was still a shell shock so I can see why anything even remotely like that would raise hackles. The same would be said for me, that is why I wanted to see them for myself.
ShironRedshift said:
Hope you're never on a jury. Yes, harassment happens. Yes, false accusations happen. The fact is she took to twitter of all places to air her business. She has left it open for interpretation. I would have taken the claim a lot more seriously if she took the time to write an actual article of the events the occurred. Some of you on here love to believe anything someone says on twitter as long as it fits what you believe. Then when someone says different you're up in arms.
^
^
No, I wasnt in that moment. Just things like that should be in consideration is all Im saying.
With the Weinstein reports I definitely felt some people here went too far constantly trying to find more people to blame/judge by association. But having Naughty Dog the company involved in this discussion isn't a stretch of any kind.
Jawbreaker
Member
It's really not your job to tell victims how to air their experiences, though. Everyone deals with it differently, and often, are too afraid to even bring it up. Public opinion and court are separate.
WaterAstro
Member
Let's get the logic straight. A company can only be responsible for the sexual harassment case if they know about it. They can only know about it if the victim tells them. That means the victim has responsibility to tell them, otherwise, the sexual harasser gets away.
I know my tone sounds cruel, but the victims do have this responsibility.
Social media, in these cases, are good for those men and women that were ignored. Whether Farokhmanesh was ignored, we don't even know that. We're just jumping to conclusions.
Okay. There's no paper trail, you don't have names of any sexual harassers, no one remembers the victim. How do you start?
So what tone makes a comment like that okay?
We aren't sentencing nobody. We aren't a court of law. We don't have to follow their standards, which are more strict because a sentence can affect someone's rights, which we aren't doing. So please, everyone, stop with the "I hope you're never on a jury" shit.
Then how do you know that the tone was taken out of hand?
Chill.
Because sexual assault allegations can ruin someones reputation.
Hmmmm someone used this same line earlier towards me.
You got us. We don't belong in court. Oh man I'm so burned. Fuck.
Sexual assault can ruin someone's life.
And like so many have posted already, nobody has been named.
Ah, the ol' allegation is just as bad as the crime. Just like being called a racist is worse than being an actual racist.
Victims, who should listen to them right? all probably lying.
Liliana Eileen
Member
And sexual assault can ruin someone's LIFE. Stop victim blaming.
ScientificPizza
Banned
You could start by, like, actually investigating and not just quickly searching to see if a HR complaint was filed about it
TheModestGun
Neo Member
I think this is kind of absurd. While Naughty Dog absolutely should have accountability, this again seems to make the implication that every Naughty Dog employee is just a stand in for another.
Why would you even assume these people who were nice are the same ones acting out of line and shitty? Naughty dogs feet should be held to the fire as far as weeding out crappy people and harassers, but I think people are overestimating how much a company has control of the individuals that work within them other than the tasks that they are assigned to in their workplace. Especially one with hundreds of employees. With that being said,
if people are indeed reporting harassment and no action is taken, Naughty Dog needs to cut that shit out.
DAREALGUMMY
Member
Again, them being nice has nothing to do with it. The poster and I have agreed that this all stinks. I originally said what I did because the statement felt like it was excusing others because of how well they treated them. "Those people were nice to me, how can anyone else in that company be assholes?" is what it read to me. I don't want the company to go down. I don't want people to lose their jobs over what one person did. I would like the company to take responsibility and see exactly what the hell is going on within itself. This is the second time a person has spoken out about ND and I think once was enough for them to investigate things. Their response to the original comment that prompted this second story didn't exactly fill me with confidence that they're taking this seriously.
All this information coming out about Naughty Dog is bad enough, but the fact that Jason Schreier just wrote an article with employees declaring their shock and disbelief in the insinuation of any harassment culture there makes it... well, it puts those comments in the Schreier article in a different light, to say the least.
This doesn't seem that egregious, just middle ground bullshit that I think we have all learned is fucking shit. Oh to only be 13 days into this shitshow of a Presidency.
That was also a full month before that fucking turd of a tweet about a day without women.
Bobo Dakes
Member
Isn't the phrase a few rotten apples spoils the bunch.
People aren't looking at Naughty Dog because they think everyone employed there is like that, but if they do have a "look the other way" or "cover it up" attitude or are complicit or just don't take any sort of action against this type of behavior, they may well be contributing to it.
It's easy for people to just be like "well it's maybe just 1 or 2" and shrug it off because people like this developer.
GillianSeed79
Member
As someone who just had someone very close to me just get sexually assaulted the other day, I really want ND to take these allegations seriously after their shit show response to the last allegations. I want Druckman to tweet that their HR department actually gives a fuck and is looking into it. I love ND games. They are among my favorite devs, but they really dropped the ball hard with this and I think they need to earn back our respect. They've come a long was since having a naked chick as part of their logo on Rings Of Power and the studio seems progressive on paper but this kind of shit is unacceptable.
Jerry Orbach
Member
Sexual harassment is kind of like when someone gives you a pet. You may not have asked for a puppy, but now that you have one it's your responsibility to care for it. The term "cat call" actually comes from the olden days, when people driving by in their wagons would throw unwanted kittens at strangers, who would then have to take them home and raise them. You could never do that today because people are too irresponsible.
Man, this thread sure went out of hand
dugdug
Banned
Are you talking about Neil retweeting Colins video about politics in games? Cause that video was pretty spot on, actually. And it was before Colin busted his ass out the door. I never saw him retweet any of Colins gross shit. I agree this looks like ND needs some vetting, trying to drag Neil down, when that dude has a long history of standing up for and promoting women in games and games media, is messed up.