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Pope declares evolution & Big Bang are right & God isn't a magician with a magic wand

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CodonAUG

Member
It is also important to remember.
- The person who laid the foundation for big bang theory: catholic priest and scientist Georges Lemaître (1927)
- The person who came up with one of the first major evolution theories: Jesuit educated French scientist Jean-Baptiste Lamarck
- The person who is behind theory of genetics: Augustinian friar Gregor Mendel
--> It shouldn't be a surprise the Catholic Church supports these. They were based on works of Catholic scientists.

Lamarckian evolution is wrong. (Ex of lamarkian evolution: someone who works out a ton and is bulky will have bulky kids because of his working out and not because of traits independent of that activity)

Gregor Mendel's work was lost until 1900s, people were figuring out and replicating his work by that time so its not a significant as you think.
 

Air

Banned
Lamarckian evolution is wrong. (Ex of lamarkian evolution: someone who works out a ton and is bulky will have bulky kids because of his working out and not because of traits independent of that activity)

Gregor Mendel's work was lost until 1900s, people were figuring out and replicating his work by that time so its not a significant as you think.

To be fair he didn't say either were right, but that they contributed to science. You shouldn't have to be correct to be considered a scientist.
 
John Paul II already came out publicly in support of evolution and gave his general approval to the idea of Big Bang cosmology, with the caveat that he believes that God is the reason the Big Bang occurred.
 
The Catholic Church has been pretty good with science nowadays with evolution and The Big Bang, a lot of Catholic schools teach those sciences without issue. It's great that the Pope is still reinforcing those ideas still.

It's usually the some of the forms of protestant fundamentalist versions of Christianity that teach the creationism nonsense in the states.
 
Having grown up in a relatively Catholic environment (ie parts of my family and friends were very pious), I can't say I find this mind blowing. Everyone around me already accepted this. Hell, I even had some great Jesuit science teachers.

I only started hearing about this creationism silliness on the part of some particular elements of (apparently mostly American) Protestant sects but I've never seen it as a big deal here in Europe. Most religious people I know tend to reconcile religion and science because they separate spiritual and temporal issues. No one really wants religion messing up their science or the opposite.
 

Soriku

Junior Member
Having grown up in a relatively Catholic environment (ie parts of my family and friends were very pious), I can't say I find this mind blowing. Everyone around me already accepted this. Hell, I even had some great Jesuit science teachers.

I only started hearing about this creationism silliness on the part of some particular elements of (apparently mostly American) Protestant sects but I've never seen it as a big deal here in Europe. Most religious people I know tend to reconcile religion and science because they separate spiritual and temporal issues. No one really wants religion messing up their science or the opposite.

Do they just live in a perpetual state of cognitive dissonance? lol.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Why are people saying best pope for this specific declaration? This is old news. As in, it was old news in 1951. What next, cheering Obama for visiting east Germany?
 

starsky

Member
Though it's not a new stance, it's still good to know they're not against science.
And this pope has been saying all the good stuff, I hope he'll continue to impress me.
 
Do they just live in a perpetual state of cognitive dissonance? lol.

Those silly fundamentalist Protestants with their magic wand creationist claims that ignore science! Now excuse me, I'll be over here believing in the resurrection, exorcisms, and spiritual ensoulment like the true paragon of scientific thinking that I am.
 

markot

Banned
This has been the churches stance for ages......

Are you guys going to praise Obama if he says 'The United States is a republic?'

Also, its worth nothing, that he is wrong. You cant believe in a god that 'tiggered' those events and also got a virgin pregnant, turned into a man, and every sunday turns into crackers for the believers to eat.

Saying god set in motion science, and the rules of science, and then saying 'but he does obviously break those rules for us alot' is kind of a contradiction.

This view is of god as a magician. And the idea of an impersonal god that simply set in motion the events of the big bang and evolution (Based on nothing but hope and that science is still looking for those answers) doesnt meld with the god in the bible, the god of abraham, or the god that catholicism is based on.

Evolution of humans means that at some point god 'turned on' the soul in us. When did that happen? Or does all life have a soul, from fungus to fun guys? Not to mention if we were the goal of evolution, as seems to be the idea, then why does god have a 99% extinction rate for life? And why did humans take so long to actually come to dominate the planet, and to come up with this god? If you look at life logically, it all makes sense if you take science and nature and an uncaring universe into account. All religion makes sense in this prisim. none of it makes sense if you take any specific, or all, religions views into account.


And what happens when science discovers the specific cause of the big bang and the origin of life on this planet? Where does god retreat to then? You can keep pulling god back from the light of scientific progress, but eventually, he will run out of shadows to hide in.
 

Ahasverus

Member
Those silly fundamentalist Protestants with their magic wand creationist claims that ignore science! Now excuse me, I'll be over here believing in the resurrection, exorcisms, and spiritual ensoulment like the true paragon of scientific thinking that I am.
Umm... Yes? Some of us dumb catholics (and christiants) actually work and develop science every day. The same science fedora guys praise and use to mock us (while adding nothing to it). Please.
 
Do they just live in a perpetual state of cognitive dissonance? lol.
(disclaimer: I'm not a believer but a number of people around me are so I'll describe my observations and a lifetime of experiences)

Not necessarily, they're more into religion for the moral, community and lifestyle implications it has. Discussing historicity or believability isn't really a concern to them, they do believe in the Holy Trinity, in Life Eternal, in the seven Holy Sacraments, in the seven Theological and Cardinal Virtues and in the Seven Sins. But when you add that stuff up, it doesn't mean you think Earth is 9000 years old and dinosaurs were killed during the Flood or something, it mostly adds up to rituals, to being part of a community and to a peculiar belief in the afterlife.

To sum it up a bit broadly, and this is a conversation I actually had, knowing whether the New Testament is an accurate depiction of the life of Jesus is kind of secondary to acknowledging the Sermon on the Mount (for example) is an incredibly potent and powerful text in itself and that's part of why this has all been passed down.

Again, I'm 100% atheist, I'm not really defending religion but this has been my experience with Catholics around me. My experience is probably tainted by the fact none were super-conservative.
 

markot

Banned

But the pope is saying 'science and religion can co exist' essentially. While having, at the same time, many unscientific beliefs. The resurrection, the fact that Jesus was god... etc... all of these dont meld with science.

You cant say 'faith' for things that contradict science but then say 'oh but science doesnt counter our faith'. When it does, for alot of things... The entire idea of a god that simply set these laws in motion directly contradictions the god of the bible, the god of abraham, the god of all faiths. They all contain super natural elements. Those super natural elements are the basis of the faiths. And the description that religous people give the beginning of life and the beginning of the universe seem to stem from the idea that these were super natural events caused by a super natural being.

They want to have their cake and eat it too.

The same catholic church is using its position to spread the idea that contraception is evil, that homsexuality is a sin. Fuck your pretend scienfitific literacy if you are willing to throw it under the bus to maintain stupid ass beliefs. (Speaking to the church)
 

Air

Banned
post of the gaps.

There are other interpretations of God that doesn't have to do with God of the gaps, to which I'm pretty sure the pope isn't a believer in (if I remember his other stuff correctly). In fact, nothing from the article I read indicated such.
 

genjiZERO

Member
This has been the churches stance for ages......

Are you guys going to praise Obama if he says 'The United States is a republic?'

Also, its worth nothing, that he is wrong. You cant believe in a god that 'tiggered' those events and also got a virgin pregnant, turned into a man, and every sunday turns into crackers for the believers to eat.

Saying god set in motion science, and the rules of science, and then saying 'but he does obviously break those rules for us alot' is kind of a contradiction.

This view is of god as a magician. And the idea of an impersonal god that simply set in motion the events of the big bang and evolution (Based on nothing but hope and that science is still looking for those answers) doesnt meld with the god in the bible, the god of abraham, or the god that catholicism is based on.

Evolution of humans means that at some point god 'turned on' the soul in us. When did that happen? Or does all life have a soul, from fungus to fun guys? Not to mention if we were the goal of evolution, as seems to be the idea, then why does god have a 99% extinction rate for life? And why did humans take so long to actually come to dominate the planet, and to come up with this god? If you look at life logically, it all makes sense if you take science and nature and an uncaring universe into account. All religion makes sense in this prisim. none of it makes sense if you take any specific, or all, religions views into account.

And what happens when science discovers the specific cause of the big bang and the origin of life on this planet? Where does god retreat to then? You can keep pulling god back from the light of scientific progress, but eventually, he will run out of shadows to hide in.

eh,,, I'd just chalk those things up to being miracles. I've met a lot of Catholics who view even that stuff as myth anyway. Also, I think these are matters of Faith. The question (for a Christian) is whether they believe God has the power to do these things. Evolution (and by contrast, Genesis) aren't really a matter of faith.

As far as the Big Bang Theory - this is addressed by the unprovability/disprovability of the concept of "God". So to answer your question theistically, the answer is that God retreats to nowhere because it was his will all along. So it's not that science "disproves" God it's that it demystifies him. You don't need the arcane mysteries of the bible to believe in God (nor even to be a Christian).

by the way I'm actually an atheist

(disclaimer: I'm not a believer but a number of people around me are so I'll describe my observations and a lifetime of experiences)

Not necessarily, they're more into religion for the moral, community and lifestyle implications it has. Discussing historicity or believability isn't really a concern to them, they do believe in the Holy Trinity, in Life Eternal, in the seven Holy Sacraments, in the seven Theological and Cardinal Virtues and in the Seven Sins. But when you add that stuff up, it doesn't mean you think Earth is 9000 years old and dinosaurs were killed during the Flood or something, it mostly adds up to rituals, to being part of a community and to a peculiar belief in the afterlife.

To sum it up a bit broadly, and this is a conversation I actually had, knowing whether the New Testament is an accurate depiction of the life of Jesus is kind of secondary to acknowledging the Sermon on the Mount (for example) is an incredibly potent and powerful text in itself and that's part of why this has all been passed down.

Again, I'm 100% atheist, I'm not really defending religion but this has been my experience with Catholics around me. My experience is probably tainted by the fact none were super-conservative.

I think you make some good observations, but I'd condense it even further to "Catholics believe in God the Father and Jesus, and the Church is a cultural norm some of whom take more seriously that others".
 

markot

Banned
There are other interpretations of God that doesn't have to do with God of the gaps, to which I'm pretty sure the pope isn't a believer in (if I remember his other stuff correctly). In fact, nothing from the article I read indicated such.

He is saying god is behind these events because it is a current gap in our knowledge. What happens when our knowledge discovers what lies in these gaps? God gets moved further back.

Same thing happened with earthquakes. Lightning, plagues..... you name it. Religion is there to help us understand the stuff outside our knowledge. Once our knowledge expands, religion shrinks, to smaller and smaller gaps, constantly moving the goal posts backward to make sure that their beliefs are still relavent.

300 years ago we didnt know much, so god created everything, as he said, he created the universe as stated in the bible. The moment we discover that this may not be true? "Oh, its just a story, god still fits in __________"
 

Air

Banned
He is saying god is behind these events because it is a current gap in our knowledge. What happens when our knowledge discovers what lies in these gaps? God gets moved further back.

His views are more in line with a panentheist interpretation. If you'd like to stretch it than a Deist flavored one, neither of which are close to what you're saying. Evolution and the big bang are kind of functions of a system for God.

I don't see anywhere that he is saying what you think he is saying.
 

Soriku

Junior Member
(disclaimer: I'm not a believer but a number of people around me are so I'll describe my observations and a lifetime of experiences)

Not necessarily, they're more into religion for the moral, community and lifestyle implications it has. Discussing historicity or believability isn't really a concern to them, they do believe in the Holy Trinity, in Life Eternal, in the seven Holy Sacraments, in the seven Theological and Cardinal Virtues and in the Seven Sins. But when you add that stuff up, it doesn't mean you think Earth is 9000 years old and dinosaurs were killed during the Flood or something, it mostly adds up to rituals, to being part of a community and to a peculiar belief in the afterlife.

To sum it up a bit broadly, and this is a conversation I actually had, knowing whether the New Testament is an accurate depiction of the life of Jesus is kind of secondary to acknowledging the Sermon on the Mount (for example) is an incredibly potent and powerful text in itself and that's part of why this has all been passed down.

Again, I'm 100% atheist, I'm not really defending religion but this has been my experience with Catholics around me. My experience is probably tainted by the fact none were super-conservative.

OK. I was just wondering if they were bouncing back and forth regarding scientific facts and religious dogma.

He is saying god is behind these events because it is a current gap in our knowledge. What happens when our knowledge discovers what lies in these gaps? God gets moved further back.

Same thing happened with earthquakes. Lightning, plagues..... you name it. Religion is there to help us understand the stuff outside our knowledge. Once our knowledge expands, religion shrinks, to smaller and smaller gaps, constantly moving the goal posts backward to make sure that their beliefs are still relavent.

300 years ago we didnt know much, so god created everything, as he said, he created the universe as stated in the bible. The moment we discover that this may not be true? "Oh, its just a story, god still fits in __________"

They'll just keep pushing God back forever. Really the only way a god makes sense in the context of the Big Bang/Evolution is that he just set up the mechanism but let everything operate without any interference. But makes him indistinguishable from his non-existence. Anyway I doubt such a general god type of god has really demanded worship, is going to send you to hell if you don't, or is judging you for eating pork and masturbating. At least it's not apparent that this is the case.
 
Judged by who?

DreddFace.jpg


Wait, doesn't this invalidate Catholicism? Can I have my donations back now?
 
Umm... Yes? Some of us dumb catholics (and christiants) actually work and develop science every day. The same science fedora guys praise and use to mock us (while adding nothing to it). Please.

Yes, and assuming you're a good scientist, you ignore all those catholic beliefs when you're doing scientific things. Because those claims contradict pretty much everything scientific, and you would get laughed at if you tried to present your religious beliefs as some sort of scientific evidence for anything.

Which is fine, this is something we all do to some extent (hold super irrational beliefs in one part of life, while being rational in other parts of life). But that's still cognitive dissonance (which is what I was snarkily responding to), and it still shows that the "religion and science are totally compatible!" statement people like to make doesn't really make any sense. So this idea that Catholicism is "pro-science" should be more accurately stated as "Catholicism is pro-science in some areas, but anti-science in others".

Scientific people can hold unscientific beliefs, and still be perfectly fine scientists, but that's not the same thing as saying science and a religion are "compatible".
 

Ahasverus

Member
Scientific people can hold unscientific beliefs, and still be perfectly fine scientists, but that's not the same thing as saying science and a religion are "compatible".
I understand your point. The thing is, the part of our life (talking about religious science guys) that belongs to God is spiritual, we don't attribute God the sunset as that woman from the funny pic, he's a force, a being of love, going by Jesus words.
But the pope is saying 'science and religion can co exist' essentially. While having, at the same time, many unscientific beliefs. The resurrection, the fact that Jesus was god... etc... all of these dont meld with science.
Again. Yes. God matters are God matters, he can do with nature rules whatever he wants, he's God. That doesn't mean we people can't strive to understand and manipulate the world, that's our gift, that's what we can and should do. That's the dissociation most catholic people do. In Jesus' words
Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's
 
If everyone loves the pope so much, why aren't they going to church?

I think the whole "leading by example will get more followers" is a bunch of bollocks personally. I'd like to see real data showing otherwise. But I can like the Pope while still not believing God exists.
 

markot

Banned
His views are more in line with a panentheist interpretation. If you'd like to stretch it than a Deist flavored one, neither of which are close to what you're saying. Evolution and the big bang are kind of functions of a system for God.

I don't see anywhere that he is saying what you think he is saying.

Evolution is proof that there is no divine plan. The idea that most religious people have when trying to reconcile evolution is either that man was always intended to appear, or that man was brought to life as is.

As a system of god?

The bible and co imagine that we were made in gods image? Is that literal or not? Because it generally means that all theists picture god as a fella with a beard.

Evolution of man is generally based on adaptation and survival. We are how we are because that is how nature essentially forged us, through natural selection. Now if you accept god set that all in motion, what does that also mean? Well, that he decided to only bring cellular life to the planet 1 billion years ago, before that, the majority of life has been single celled. In fact the vast majority of time life has had on this planet has been single celled.

Now, if you believe in a benevolent god who loves us, this is a core of Catholic dogma no? Why would god invent a sytem that, first of all meant that humans would only appear and start to believe in him (Although this is our primary function according to religious people) what, 100,000 years ago at most. Civilisation began what, 15 thousand years ago. Jews only appeard on the scene what, 5000 years ago? And yet we are told Jews are the people who discovered the real god. Jesus only enters the scene 2000 years ago.

Now, you can believe that god set all that up, with the intention that we should arrive recently. But none of that makes sense. Because if you believe in evolution of man, when did he give us souls? If you believe in real evolution, all life would have souls. God breathed life into man? He did it to a single cell in a primodial soup. But did he think 'no, no souls yet, ill wait a few billion years'? Did the dinosaurs have souls? Why did he set them up knowing an asteroid would destroy them? Did he plan that? Were the dinosaurs there to stamp down the ground abit to make room for mammals?

There are a billion things that make no sense with this view of god. A god setting up this form of evolution.

Now what about the idea, that most religious people have and had for most of human history, before Darwin, that god did as he claimed literally in the bible. He created man, adam and eve. This is obviously a direct intervention and suspension of natural law. Yet this is what people believed and believe to this day. Because the idea 'that god isnt a magician' is completely counter to what god is the definition of. Magic isnt real, yet a real magician would rely on suspending the natural law to do his 'tricks'. God would need to wave a magic wand to create man. Just like in the other scenario he would have had to waved a magic want to create teh big bang, or in most religious peoples views, create life 'from nothing'.

The view of the god in the first scenario, is a god that doesnt need to exist. Why would god need to setup these laws? beyond which, if you agree with this god, why does he suspend the natural order constantly to get out attention? How does this god meld with Jesus, the trinity, the crackers... etc... Catholics are trying to say that god is both this being beyond the natural order who often breaks it just for us. But also this god who created this uncaring mechanism called evolution that took billions of years for humans to be created. That has a 99%+ failure rate. That by the looks of it needs no divine intervention at all. But thats how he set it up?

You cant pretend science confirms your faith, then discard science when it doesnt because 'faith'.

In the mean time, the catholic church in liberia has linked homosexuality to the ebola outbreak. Along with alot of religous leaders.

Maybe instead of pretending science backs up their faith, the church could do something useful and help real humans in real trouble due to their faith.

Science backs up our faith. Condoms dont stop the spread of aids. God is a cracker. Jesus was his son.

Science is an all or nothing prospect, you either accept that evidence and fact are important, or you dont. You dont pick and choose. Reality isnt a faith.
 

operon

Member
Science deals with how religion in why. So science says evolution is how we are here religion tells us God is why we are. Can't say in my time studying for my genetics degree I didn't come across too much that contradicted my Catholicism mind you we didn't study human resurrection.
 

Scrooged

Totally wronger about Nintendo's business decisions.
Catholics love to have their cake and eat it too.


http://www.catholic.com/tracts/creation-and-genesis
Catholics are at liberty to believe that creation took a few days or a much longer period, according to how they see the evidence, and subject to any future judgment of the Church (Pius XII’s 1950 encyclical Humani Generis 36–37). They need not be hostile to modern cosmology. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states, "[M]any scientific studies . . . have splendidly enriched our knowledge of the age and dimensions of the cosmos, the development of life forms, and the appearance of man. These studies invite us to even greater admiration for the greatness of the Creator" (CCC 283). Still, science has its limits (CCC 284, 2293–4).

So yeah, nothing new here.
 

markot

Banned
I understand your point. The thing is, the part of our life (talking about religious science guys) that belongs to God is spiritual, we don't attribute God the sunset as that woman from the funny pic, he's a force, a being of love, going by Jesus words.

Again. Yes. God matters are God matters, he can do with nature rules whatever he wants, he's God. That doesn't mean we people can't strive to understand and manipulate the world, that's our gift, that's what we can and should do. That's the dissociation most catholic people do. In Jesus' words

A being of love wouldnt have such a failure rate with life itself. A being of love wouldnt have earthquakes. He wouldnt have plagues. These things only make sense in a natural uncaring universe. A loving god wouldnt create that.

Science deals with the why too. And religion deals with why? No. Its only been relegated to that since science over took it in explaining life, the universe and everything. Religion was all about how and why till it started embarassing itself.
 

Air

Banned
a whole lot of stuff

I'm sorry that you went through all of this trouble to write this post, but I was addressing your idea that God of the gaps is what the pope was talking about. This post is something else entirely, most of which I'm not really interested in addressing in this thread.. What I will say is that from gazing through this, you're kind of running with a lot of presuppositions and some of them have merit, others don't. I'm not going to answer all of your philosophical inquires, but I will say that a God that basically set the universe to act a certain way is not much different from a programmer making an algorithm. The pope's God, is one that isn't beholden to natural laws, in the sense of the god of the gaps. It is a super set of the universe. Like another poster wrote, our understanding of evolution and the big bang theory would be clarifications on how God did its thang, but it wouldn't be a qualifier of what God is itself. That interpretation doesn't clash at all with science imo. Like I wrote before, this popes God is functionally a panentheist type and there isn't really any drama with that interpretation (basically, anything with 'pan' or 'de' probably aren't at odds with science). You can question why the necessity and all that, but I think that's another topic. The points about the resurrection and all that are fair criticisms, and an actual catholic would probably be better suited to respond to that.

It's amazing watching religion actively evolve in order to try and stay relevant.

Organized religion tends to do this, but a natural wonder and belief in a higher power- I think that comes naturally. I think what's happening is that the latter half of my sentence is starting to take hold on a mass scale where the former is catching up.
 

Soriku

Junior Member
Science deals with how religion in why. So science says evolution is how we are here religion tells us God is why we are. Can't say in my time studying for my genetics degree I didn't come across too much that contradicted my Catholicism mind you we didn't study human resurrection.

Religion also deals with the how. The Bible explains how God created the heavens and Earth.

Also, sometimes how's can conflict with why's. And really, considering the amount of religions and denominations there are, there sure are a lot of why's.

I'm sorry that you went through all of this trouble to write this post, but I was addressing your idea that God of the gaps is what the pope was talking about. This post is something else entirely, most of which I'm not really interested in addressing in this thread.. What I will say is that from gazing through this, you're kind of running with a lot of presuppositions and some of them have merit, others don't. I'm not going to answer all of your philosophical inquires, but I will say that a God that basically set the universe to act a certain way is not much different from a programmer making an algorithm. The pope's God, is one that isn't beholden to natural laws, in the sense of the god of the gaps. It is a super set of the universe. Like another poster wrote, our understanding of evolution and the big bang theory would be clarifications on how God did its thang, but it wouldn't be a qualifier of what God is itself. That interpretation doesn't clash at all with science imo. Like I wrote before, this popes God is functionally a panentheist type and there isn't really any drama with that interpretation (basically, anything with 'pan' or 'de' probably aren't at odds with science). You can question why the necessity and all that, but I think that's another topic. The points about the resurrection and all that are fair criticisms, and an actual catholic would probably be better suited to respond to that.

Well let's say God is real and he set this all up...he wasn't very efficient. Not at all. But I guess we all make mistakes :p

Again, even if God set up the mechanism, the whole thing seems really unguided. It's like if God threw a ball and just watched where it went, without doing much in the way of interference.
 
every time this Pope is quoted as saying something that is less dark ages than most ideas in religion PR Damage Control comes and takes two steps back so I wait for the news to change for this too
 

beast786

Member
Science deals with how religion in why. So science says evolution is how we are here religion tells us God is why we are. Can't say in my time studying for my genetics degree I didn't come across too much that contradicted my Catholicism mind you we didn't study human resurrection.

Are you making definition up?

Science works on how and why. Just like religion try to answer how and why.
 

operon

Member
Religion also deals with the how. The Bible explains how God created the heavens and Earth.

Also, sometimes how's can conflict with why's. And really, considering the amount of religions and denominations there are, there sure are a lot of why's.
That's the thing with faith in the end it all comes down to personal faith as you don't really have evidence as unless your a believer your holy book is another person's story book. Whose to say we are right and they are wrong and so on.
 

Air

Banned
Well let's say God is real and he set this all up...he wasn't very efficient. Not at all. But I guess we all make mistakes :p

Again, even if God set up the mechanism, the whole thing seems really unguided. It's like if God threw a ball and just watched where it went, without doing much in the way of interference.

I think the thing here is that the notion of 'efficiency' and 'mistakes', used in this context may be erroneous. The idea that God had to be efficient to make the universe doesn't seem logical to me because that is my applying my own notion and beliefs to how the universe should be, on something that did it its own way. Not saying you can't say that, but I think it would be weird because we wouldn't know what the purpose would be for taking 13.5 billion years. Maybe it's just super chill and mellow.

You have a fair point about saying it would seem unguided, at least from what we know now. I think the thing though, that I will say is that we are still leaving sentient life out of the equation. We're not separate from the universe. If that type of God exists, we'd still be agents of it too, by virtue of being in the universe. But yeah, you're describing deism, which takes God out of an active roll. I don't like deism because it leaves out the part where we ourselves are agents of this higher power, but it's definitely a route I've seen start growing.
 
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